Intermodel Container Fortress

[kalos72]

Some of my players have had ideas of using containers as walls to quickly and easily build fortresses for smaller units. These forts would be bases to patrol from through out an area that either is not yet completely secured or one thats security needs to be higher then most for some reason.

They were thinking of taking 10+ containers, filling them with stripped cars or rubble, and building an outer wall. Then filling in the middle with rocks or dirt to create a flat area and then use another row of containers to form an inner wall of a smaller diameter.

There would be walking, possibly driving room along the outer edge of the inner wall.

They are assuming that they will not have to contend with artillery or heavy weapons and mostly the lose marauder band or rioting civilian group.

Sounds feasible to me considering the thousands of shipping containers the NYC area has but are they strong enough to be used as a fortification like that?

[pmulcahy11b]

That sound kind of like a stronger version of a house I saw on the Science Channel yesterday -- the walls are made of wood forms with highly-compacted dirt in them, and dirt's so compacted it's waterproof. Great for climate control within.

While you're at it, if you have enough containers, live in them.

I would guess they're pretty strong -- they have to stand up to being shipped all over the world filled with god knows what at whatever weight. Some are probably stronger than others, though.

[Legbreaker]

If there's no heavy weapons to contend with, why bother going up two levels and have to fill the interior?
Line the outer top edge of the containers with barbed wire with a wall of sandbags just inside the wire. That should leave a space for a walkway/crawlway. A few ladders scattered about and you've got access.

Another line of two of barbed wire outside should slow any attackers down enough for the oversized crossbows and heavy flamethrowers to deal with! (sorry, had a Mad Max 2 moment there...)

[kalos72]

They were concerned with the containers for a couple of reasons.

1 - Are the walls themselves thick enough to stop common rounds with perhaps a row of sandbags or rubble? I suggested a stripped dead vehicle inside to add both weight and mass...

2 - Could the containers be rammed by a vehicle and force the perimeter to collapse?

3 - Or even could they be pulled out of alignment and force the perimeter to collapse?

[Legbreaker]

A couple of rows of sandbags inside should both provide the necessary protection and anchor them to the ground. As a rough rule of thumb, one cubic metre of dirt is approximately a tonne of weight (depends a lot on soil composition, moisture content, etc).
If they're truely worried about the containers being rammed and shifted, there's nothing wrong with driving some posts into the ground behind them, even inside them to pin them to the ground. Might take a little effort, but still less than shifting litterally hundreds of tonnes of dirt.

If resources were available, plating the outer side of the containers with sheet steel might be a good idea too. Leaves the inside available for storage/living quarters. Piling dirt up against the outside would have the same effect and with barbed wire strewn over it, interspersed with mines and various other explosive goodness, climbers shouldn't be too much of an issue. The advantage of this is that the dirt has to come from somewhere - moat with antivehicular obstacles anyone?

[HorseSoldier]

I don't think a standard shipping container's walls will stop much of anything that's ballistically energetic, but agree that a double layer of sand bags inside would do the trick for a threat environment where you're 99% concerned with small arms fire.

A vehicle ramming the wall composed of a CONEX with double sand bags inside would likely be sufficient to knock a hole in the container. I'd suggest that's not a show stopper, just that phase 2 of the fortification plan is an effective anti-vehicle ditch or other obstacles. If you're just worried about civilian wheeled vehicles it need not be too involved, certainly not on the same level as a true anti-tank ditch. Depending on your manpower involved in setting up the position and equipment available, you could probably have your trench put in concurrently with siting the containers, and use the fill from the trench to do your sand bags.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The standard shipping container is reasonably tough and like HorseSoldier mentions, they probably won't stop high powered ammo. They will stop low powered rounds or traditional handgun rounds from a distance though. My friends and I shot at one many years ago with stuff ranging from a 9mm Beretta, .357 revolver and M1 Carbine from about 40-50 metres. It stopped all of that but we didn't shoot it with the .22-250 or the Mini-14 because we thought those rounds would penetrate.

[Adm.Lee]

Something else to add weight & density-- if you can find a lot of containers, can you also find cinder blocks or bricks?

I think dirt ramps are probably the way to go, though.

[Trooper]

Cargo containers + cardboard bails = urban fortress

http://www.kolumbus.fi/~kr9190/aalto/

[kalos72]

Dirt ramps I agree with....another thing the players thought of was using some of those Jersey barriers either inside or on top to give additional cover while walking on top of the containers.

[HorseSoldier]

They could always cut trap doors in the containers with ladders to allow completely protected transit from built up fighting position/bunker/observation points, possibly with a firing step and loop holes near the ceiling of the container instead of guys with rifles trying to fight from the crenellations castle-style. Then (assuming they had the kit) they'd just need a couple machine gun teams and maybe a couple marksmen with decent optics on their rifles with really good observation/fields of fire topside. (And even the MGs could be protected by gun shields and such -- if the threat has little or no heavy weapons a fixed MG position can be a lot more blatant and static than if you've got to sweat RPGs and mortar fire.)

[Rockwolf66]

The idea that i am getting from what people say is to use jersey barriers as the outer perimeter and the have the Cargo boxes as a second line. in between we fill the space with Rock and cover it with earth and then install as muvh concentina wire and mines as i could scavenge/build.

[Legbreaker]

I wouldn't!
The barriers will give the enemy something to hide behind.

Any obstacles placed within several hundred metres should be able to be shot through.

[pmulcahy11b]

I wouldn't!
The barriers will give the enemy something to hide behind.

Any obstacles placed within several hundred metres should be able to be shot through.

That's a good point; if you have enough, mine the interval. Make sure you have good machinegun avenues of fire.

[Rockwolf66]

I wouldn't!
The barriers will give the enemy something to hide behind.

Any obstacles placed within several hundred metres should be able to be shot through.

What I ment by my previous statement is to use the jersey barriers as an outer retaining wall and then fill the empty space between the jersey barrier and the Intermodel container full of earth and rock. What you end up with is a rather hard to climb slope and it could easily be made worse with various obsticals to climbing.

Personally such a construction would only be a core to layers of defence.

[pmulcahy11b]

What I ment by my previous statement is to use the jersey barriers as an outer retaining wall and then fill the empty space between the jersey barrier and the Intermodel container full of earth and rock. What you end up with is a rather hard to climb slope and it could easily be made worse with various obsticals to climbing.

Personally such a construction would only be a core to layers of defence.

You can lace the rock wall with claymores if you have them.

[Legbreaker]

Layers on top of layers given time and resources I would hope.

I don't feel placing barriers at the base of the wall is going to achieve very much. Having been involved in the construction of a number of earthern dams over the years, I feel I can say with some authority that you can create a very stable earth slope of 45 degrees or so with nothing more than a bulldozer. The vehicle uses it's own weight to pack down the earth as it goes. The earthern wall could be used without the containers also - just means a bit more earth to shift to achieve the same height.

The earth would of course come from a ditch dug around the outside of the defences, effectively doubling the height of wall that would need to be climbed, and creating a very effective anti-vehicle barrier to prevent ramming. One section of earth could be left in place to allow friendly vehicle access (perhaps via a twisting path through various obstacles such a posts driven into the ground), or if resources allow, a heavy metal drawbridge could be installed (an M-60 AVLB would be an ideal short term measure for this).

Once the heavy earthmoving is complete, the wall can be reinforced with barbed wire and mines, with further wire, mines and vehicular obstacles sited further out. As others have indicated, fire positions featuring automatic weapons covering every inch of the nearby terrain are vital. A mortar or other indirect weapon(s) would be very useful sited inside the defences.

If you were feeling particularly frisky and had the resources, a couple of ramps inside the walls could be constructed to support armoured vehicles enabling them to fire from hull down positions over the top of the defences.

All that would make the base almost impregnable to an assaulting force without indirect or aerial fire support (or the time and inclination to dig a mine shaft underneath).

[kalos72]

Well the container idea was originally thought up for urban scenarios that have blacktop to contend with. Just anchor the containers into the road surface and add some sandbags/jersey barriers inside the container for ballistic protection.

The original concept was to use containers following a major road to secure the ports along the Brooklyn side of MY Bay. Lay a line of them down the Gowannus Expressway to secure the dock areas to the east. The players were concerned with the idea of having to secure the many buildings that form the perimeter now.

Or even just to help establish a base for patrols to work a particular section of highway. Set up a few of them spread out over a 4 lane highway and it can ensure that road is kept clear. Like down the Long Island Expressway. :)

[rcaf_777]

here's some pics