T2k and the Media

[dragoon500ly]

Sitting around, enjoying my vacation and thought I'd start a new thread QUIT YOUR CRYING!!!!! Sit back and enjoy!

Had this pop up at a recent FTF game...one of the players wanted his character to be an embed reporter from CNN, complete with his GI-issue camera man. Now, in true CNN-fashion, this player proceeded to annoy the ever-living $@$#@^#$#$^#$$*(!(%$ out of all of the other players, with his man-in-the-street interviews, and maneuvering to get the best shots of whatever combat that we were involved in. It was an intresting, if over-down treatment of a real-life situation, sooooooooooo...

Anybody else have this happen or any thoughts on how to game this one?

[Targan]

We've had a similar discussion in the past, about reporters in the T2K environment. I had a look through the thread map but couldn't find it. There is an interesting thread about the USO in T2K here: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1408 . Not exactly the same but a related concept I suppose.

[Adm.Lee]

I think there were NPC journalists in the Eternal Soldier #1 (there weren't anymore issues, were there?)

I can't remember any in T2k that I've seen, but I can remember one in a game of Supernatural that I sat in on. Two of the PCs were a camera-person and reporter, so they had fun pointing the camera at the police PC whenever he was about to do something action-y.

In the canon 2000, who is going to see any video? It's going to be print or nothing , I should think.

[dragoon500ly]

This particular ftf was set about a year into the fighting.

[natehale1971]

This particular ftf was set about a year into the fighting.

We actually had a T2K setting where the devastation wasn't so total as in the main games, and the Sino-Soviet war that kick started T2K had started in 2000 with a slow build-up that had limited nuclear exchanges in 2005... and while the exchanges really screwed things up, there was still some civilian infrastructure left so that there was some communication going back and forth. Thus Embedded Reporters were still something that the soldiers had to deal with (which would you rather have to deal with, wiping with leaves or having a bloody camera shoved in your face after combat and get ask questions about how it makes you feel when you kill people whose only crime is that they're socialists?... yeah, i'd rather have to wipe with leaves too).

[pmulcahy11b]

You don't want to wipe with leaves -- you can get amoebic dysentery that way.

[natehale1971]

You don't want to wipe with leaves -- you can get amoebic dysentery that way.

Yes... but then you wouldn't have some left-wing reporter bugging the bejuses out out you :D

[dragoon500ly]

Tsk,tsk, tsk gentlemen!

You are missing the point! Just think of introducing your (least) favorite left-wing journalist to an ole Army tradition...fragging!

You can even help raise funds for the unit by offering the privilege to the highest bidder!

Sick I know...but so are must CNN reporters!

[natehale1971]

Tsk,tsk, tsk gentlemen!

You are missing the point! Just think of introducing your (least) favorite left-wing journalist to an ole Army tradition...fragging!

You can even help raise funds for the unit by offering the privilege to the highest bidder!

Sick I know...but so are must CNN reporters!

I love you man. In a totally platonic way of course.... :D

Think they'd let us to something like that to some of the people on MSNBC?

[pmulcahy11b]

Think they'd let us to something like that to some of the people on MSNBC?

Hey, I like MSNBC, with the exception of Ed Schultz. Something about that guy irritates me, and I can't place it.

[helbent4]

Anybody else have this happen or any thoughts on how to game this one?

Lee,

I use this in my game, which is set in Vancouver, BC. The local government is based on a university campus, which has restored limited TV broadcasts, including a nightly news programme. The players therefore have a (volunteer) CBC news team following them around in a van as they do their thing. They are not strictly embedded and at this point are familiar enough to fade into the woodwork most of the time but they're there if you look.

Many of my NPCs are based on real-life people, so the main female reporter is a composite based on two real (local) reporters/media types I know personally. I hope I've managed to avoid the usual cliched whipping-boy stereotypes about the media. The lead reporter is smokin' hot (it's part of the job), is professional and personable, and keeps her politics and opinions to herself. I imagine fantasies involving this NPC do not involve extrajudicial killing. :p

Certainly the media could be a pain in the ass but the PCs have made an effort to befriend and cultivate the lead reporter, and in return she respects their feelings (not to mention OPSEC) and doesn't get in their faces just to be annoying. More importantly, the team has gained a valuable channel for disseminating information to a wider community, and this has helped reconstruction efforts considerably. Of course, the community leadership is backing the players (so far) and thus exert influence on editorial decisions, but people do understand there still is a war on and so the mood is more of cooperation than provocation. As long as the PCs don't do anything wrong, they'll be portrayed as white knights. If they don't, things could change.

Tony

[natehale1971]

Hey, I like MSNBC, with the exception of Ed Schultz. Something about that guy irritates me, and I can't place it.

I think i'll let this pass.... commenting on how so many on what is suppose to be a 'news' channel whom like to compare me and my ideals to nazis & fascists, really just doesn't rub me the right way.

[natehale1971]

We had something similar to this in our V1 timeline... the public broadcasting network set up in various state universities were used for the Emergency Broadcasting System to keep locals up-to-date on what was going on around the world and country. But even through this the average American citizen didn't know of a milgov/civgov split... both sides did everything they could to keep the average citizen (and average grunt for that matter) in the dark on the upper echelons fighting with each other. And because of this you'd see milgov and civgov reps showing up and having to work together at times when it came to dealing with "New America" (in our campaign it had always been a group called 'The Union for a Progressive New America' without the overt racist crap, but with the different levels of citizenship like the classic New America).

Of course this caused "New America" to try and take over the university broadcasts the best they could!

Lee,

I use this in my game, which is set in Vancouver, BC. The local government is based on a university campus, which has restored limited TV broadcasts, including a nightly news programme. The players therefore have a (volunteer) CBC news team following them around in a van as they do their thing. They are not strictly embedded and at this point are familiar enough to fade into the woodwork most of the time but they're there if you look.

Many of my NPCs are based on real-life people, so the main female reporter is a composite based on two real (local) reporters/media types I know personally. I hope I've managed to avoid the usual cliched whipping-boy stereotypes about the media. The lead reporter is smokin' hot (it's part of the job), is professional and personable, and keeps her politics and opinions to herself. I imagine fantasies involving this NPC do not involve extrajudicial killing. :p

Certainly the media could be a pain in the ass but the PCs have made an effort to befriend and cultivate the lead reporter, and in return she respects their feelings (not to mention OPSEC) and doesn't get in their faces just to be annoying. More importantly, the team has gained a valuable channel for disseminating information to a wider community, and this has helped reconstruction efforts considerably. Of course, the community leadership is backing the players (so far) and thus exert influence on editorial decisions, but people do understand there still is a war on and so the mood is more of cooperation than provocation. As long as the PCs don't do anything wrong, they'll be portrayed as white knights. If they don't, things could change.

Tony

[Targan]

Tsk,tsk, tsk gentlemen!

You are missing the point! Just think of introducing your (least) favorite left-wing journalist to an ole Army tradition...fragging!

It would be the right-wing journalists I'd be fragging.

[pmulcahy11b]

It would be the right-wing journalists I'd be fragging.

In T2K, frag 'em all unless they're willing to tote a rifle.

[pmulcahy11b]

That last one, I was thinking of the other night when I watched We Were Soldiers. The Sergeant Major drops an M16 and a pile of magazines in front of the reporter. The Reporter said, "I'm not a soldier." The Sergeant Major said, "Son, we're all soldiers tonight." The Reporter got his share of NVA and VC that night and the following morning.

[natehale1971]

In T2K, frag 'em all unless they're willing to tote a rifle.

OR provide some really kick ass non-combatant duties (medic/interpreter)... we had a character in one of our campaigns who did that. played a left-leaning (and very left-leaning at that) journalist who got stuck with our group. when asked what skills he had since he wouldn't touch a gun... he answered he knew how to cook, that he spoke six languages (German, Polish, Russian, French, Czech, Yiddish) that he had done a lot of work with EMTs and was assigned to work with the medic... and when it came time to meet new people, he was there to act as interpreter if no one else could do it. .

[helbent4]

In T2K, frag 'em all unless they're willing to tote a rifle.

Paul,

Not an unreasonable expectation behind the "lines" in Poland, where everwhere is like the A-Shau valley! In other areas, it's not that simple. In a real declared war, do combat photographers carry weapons?

Tony

[natehale1971]

Paul,

Not an unreasonable expectation behind the "lines" in Poland, where everwhere is like the A-Shau valley! In other areas, it's not that simple. In a real declared war, do combat photographers carry weapons?

Tony

Marine Combat Correspondents carried during WW2, Korea and Vietnam.

[pmulcahy11b]

Paul,

Not an unreasonable expectation behind the "lines" in Poland, where everwhere is like the A-Shau valley! In other areas, it's not that simple. In a real declared war, do combat photographers carry weapons?

Tony

In the Army (and I would guess the rest of the military), there is an MOS of Correspondent, and they carry weapons and cameras. A civilian reporter would not -- I don't know, it might even be a violation of one of the Geneva or Hague accords.

[natehale1971]

In the Army (and I would guess the rest of the military), there is an MOS of Correspondent, and they carry weapons and cameras. A civilian reporter would not -- I don't know, it might even be a violation of one of the Geneva or Hague accords.

Yup. because their civilians and can be tried as illegal combatants/espionage agents.

[dragoon500ly]

That last one, I was thinking of the other night when I watched We Were Soldiers. The Sergeant Major drops an M16 and a pile of magazines in front of the reporter. The Reporter said, "I'm not a soldier." The Sergeant Major said, "Son, we're all soldiers tonight." The Reporter got his share of NVA and VC that night and the following morning.

The reporter is Joe Galloway and Hal Moore always considered him to be one of the very few reporters with a favorable view of the service man. Loved his columns!

[Targan]

That last one, I was thinking of the other night when I watched We Were Soldiers. The Sergeant Major drops an M16 and a pile of magazines in front of the reporter. The Reporter said, "I'm not a soldier." The Sergeant Major said, "Son, we're all soldiers tonight." The Reporter got his share of NVA and VC that night and the following morning.

Excellent book. Obviously due to constraints on the length of films the film couldn't pack all the detail in but I wasn't disappointed by it, I thought the film did the book justice.

I recommend that anyone with an interest in the Vietnam War who hasn't read We Were Soldiers Once, And Young should do so. Paul's mention of the film has me wanting to dig out my copy of the book and re-read it.

[HorseSoldier]

Tsk,tsk, tsk gentlemen!

You are missing the point! Just think of introducing your (least) favorite left-wing journalist to an ole Army tradition...fragging!


Some former coworkers were notably uncivil about telling Geraldo Rivera to find somewhere else to be when he and his retinue rolled up to their safehouse near Gardez. I believe there were suggestions to heads stuffed into empty sandbags and express flights to Guantanamo Bay.

Not as good as the guys during Katrina who had a running pool on who could hook up with Katie Couric when she showed up on scene, though that story suffered from no one succeeding, as far as I ever heard . . .

[TiggerCCW UK]

Excellent book. Obviously due to constraints on the length of films the film couldn't pack all the detail in but I wasn't disappointed by it, I thought the film did the book justice.

I recommend that anyone with an interest in the Vietnam War who hasn't read We Were Soldiers Once, And Young should do so. Paul's mention of the film has me wanting to dig out my copy of the book and re-read it.

Targ, have you read 'We are soldiers still', about Hal Moore, Joe Galloway, Basil Plumley and others returning to the battlefield a couple of years ago and meeting, among others, the NVA commander. Fantastic read, very humbling and moving. Amazing how well so many of them got on with their estwhile enemies.

[helbent4]

Yup. because their civilians and can be tried as illegal combatants/espionage agents.

Nate,

In some situations, then, you could say that a given reporter PC in a war zone (like, Poland) should be a military correspondent due to conscription.

On the home front, I would imagine that a reporter (and crew) could be armed for self-defence under the law or with suitable police/military permission, not to mention having armed security.

Tony

[Canadian Army]

Lee,

I use this in my game, which is set in Vancouver, BC. The local government is based on a university campus, which has restored limited TV broadcasts, including a nightly news program.
Tony

Wouldn't the CBC based at the Emergency Government Headquarters Communication Bunker at Nanoose Bay, British Columbia. All the Emergency Government Headquarters Communication Bunkers had a CBC Emergency Broadcasting Studio and were to staffed by the CBC when activated.

[helbent4]

Wouldn't the CBC based at the Emergency Government Headquarters Communication Bunker at Nanoose Bay, British Columbia. All the Emergency Government Headquarters Communication Bunkers had a CBC Emergency Broadcasting Studio and were to staffed by the CBC when activated.

CA,

My game is based in the Lower Mainland, not de eyelun, mon! There is quite a long commute from the 'Mo to Vancouver, eh? The CBC's Lower Mainland "volunteers" are based out of UBC (designated as a pre-war "disaster recovery node", by the way) because they settled there after the bombs fell.

The Nanoose Bay facility is not specifically mentioned in Legion McRae's adventures "The River" or "Red Maple", but there could be some kind of surviving facility there housing the CBC. It seems a little far from the emergency Provincial capital at Duncan, and may have been destroyed/damaged by nuclear/non-nuclear strikes, etc.. If there is a surviving facility at Nanoose Bay, it could be in the process of coming on-line as civilian government is re-established. That is, they might not be able to provide more than minor technical support for anyone on southern Vancouver Island but may be able to broadcast local and national news, still a crucial step in restoring order and normalcy.

Along the lines of what has been said earlier, the local news team has had considerable success talking to the civilians who tend to see soldiers as being the cause for the destruction and chaos. Further, bad guys like the Hells Angels and New America could take an interest in taking out a "soft target" like the government's pet news team to disrupt nascent government efforts.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Targ, have you read 'We are soldiers still', about Hal Moore, Joe Galloway, Basil Plumley and others returning to the battlefield a couple of years ago and meeting, among others, the NVA commander. Fantastic read, very humbling and moving. Amazing how well so many of them got on with their estwhile enemies.

It's always intresting to watch combat veterans return to the former battlefields, and happen to met veterans from the other side. There is surprisingly little hatred...they had both survived the worst that could be thrown at a person, and lived to tell the tale.

[natehale1971]

Nate,

In some situations, then, you could say that a given reporter PC in a war zone (like, Poland) should be a military correspondent due to conscription.

On the home front, I would imagine that a reporter (and crew) could be armed for self-defence under the law or with suitable police/military permission, not to mention having armed security.

Tony

Very true. :) once the war had reached a point that the civilian reporters were no longer seen as Non-Combatants, it'd be like 'Monk' in the T:2013 story in the Stage 1 Rules they gave out... given a gun and taught how to use it.

[helbent4]

Very true. :) once the war had reached a point that the civilian reporters were no longer seen as Non-Combatants, it'd be like 'Monk' in the T:2013 story in the Stage 1 Rules they gave out... given a gun and taught how to use it.

Nate,

More to the point, I think in an actual shooting "hot" war zone in Europe, foreign civilian reporters and journalists wouldn't be allowed in the first place, at least on the front lines.

Exceptions might be the someone making a tour of the rear areas when the balloon goes up, but if not evacuated would probably find themselves conscripted in some sense.

Back home, they could be conscripted as well, although it also seems likely that civilian reporters and journalists would be useful if not shanghied into service.

While it is useful to rely on stereotypes, an example of a more complicated war reporter character is Anthony Loyd, a former British soldier (Light Division) who felt at odds after serving in the Gulf War and basically went to Bosia on his own dime as a freelancer. My War Gone By, I Miss It So is his subjective memoir of covering one confused part of that conflict and his own drug addiction.

http://www.ralphmag.org/AN/war-gone-by-rev.html

Tony

[Targan]

Targ, have you read 'We are soldiers still', about Hal Moore, Joe Galloway, Basil Plumley and others returning to the battlefield a couple of years ago and meeting, among others, the NVA commander. Fantastic read, very humbling and moving. Amazing how well so many of them got on with their estwhile enemies.

No I haven't read it, in fact I didn't know it existed. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to source a copy.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Paul,

Not an unreasonable expectation behind the "lines" in Poland, where everwhere is like the A-Shau valley! In other areas, it's not that simple. In a real declared war, do combat photographers carry weapons?

Tony

My father was a photographer in the Army from 1955/57. When he was stationed on Korea at Camp Casey, he carried an M3 Grease Gun at first but with all the heavy equipment he lugged around, he was allowed to carry a M1911A1 .45ACP instead. A lot of soldiers wondered why he carried a pistol some only officers, sergeants and MP's were issued them. Maybe in Twilight, depending on the nationality, they might be issued M4's, various submachineguns or even handguns.

Chuck

[dragoon500ly]

Combat photographers are service members, so they would be issued firearms. Even chaplain assistants are issued rifles, in armored units, they are issued M203s!


What TO&E states are to be issued and what is "modified" in service can be worlds apart. On a M-577, the driver and TC are issued pistols, while, the S-2 and his assistant are issued M-16s. Funny, how the modification routes the pistols to the officers and the rifles to the crew.

[Trooper]

Very strange information war!:D

Disco, Emmanuelle and J.R Ewing fighting against communist manipulation in soviet Estonia...

Disco & Atomic War

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Ocuy6LsDw&feature=related

[weswood]

Sitting around, enjoying my vacation and thought I'd start a new thread QUIT YOUR CRYING!!!!! Sit back and enjoy!

Had this pop up at a recent FTF game...one of the players wanted his character to be an embed reporter from CNN, complete with his GI-issue camera man. Now, in true CNN-fashion, this player proceeded to annoy the ever-living $@$#@^#$#$^#$$*(!(%$ out of all of the other players, with his man-in-the-street interviews, and maneuvering to get the best shots of whatever combat that we were involved in. It was an intresting, if over-down treatment of a real-life situation, sooooooooooo...

Anybody else have this happen or any thoughts on how to game this one?

In the story I was attempting to write, the main character was a freelance photo-journalist. Even though he didn't have a means of sending his photos & print copy to any existing newspapers, he kept taking pictures and downloading them to his laptop, as long as the batteries were charged. He wasn't actually embedded, he just went where he thought he could get away with going.

[Legbreaker]

Laptop? Digital camera? 1997(ish) technology? :confused:

[weswood]

Laptop? Digital camera? 1997(ish) technology? :confused:

I didn't do any research, I'm way too lazy for that, but I'm pretty sure I got my 1st digital camera in '97. Paid way too much for it and I think my cheapy cell phone has more memory. As far as laptops, weren't the police using Panasonic Toughbooks by that time?

Just did a search, if you can believe Wikipedia, the first commercial laptop was available in Sept 1975.

[Legbreaker]

It's possible, but I doubt there'd be much storage capacity in it. Probably have to make some very tough decisions about which photos to keep and which ones to delete to make space. May also be constantly scrounging about for useable storage devices - 3 1/2 inch floppy's, Zip, blank CDs, etc. Could even have cobbled together a tape storage device. Of course finding this stuff after EMP hits could be problematic.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

My first laptop was a ca. 1996 Pentium 166 laptop with 64mb RAM and a 1.2gb hard drive. Nice screen, stereo sound...

I know the trend is to strip the convenience of a post TDM world but the fact is lots of things we think of as "here and now" were prevalent before then too. My Sony Mavica disk camera, for example, dates back to '97.

We weren't exactly whip and buggy technology in the mid to late 90s.

[Graebarde]

Paul,

Not an unreasonable expectation behind the "lines" in Poland, where everwhere is like the A-Shau valley! In other areas, it's not that simple. In a real declared war, do combat photographers carry weapons?

Tony

You talking civilian photographers or military combat photographers? Military would be considered combatants, and carry weapons for protection at least. At least they use to.. in the PC (proverbial crap) world of today, probably not.

[Targan]

My first laptop was a ca. 1996 Pentium 166 laptop with 64mb RAM and a 1.2gb hard drive. Nice screen, stereo sound...

Yeah, that would do nicely if you could keep it running during TEOTWAWKI.

[Sanjuro]

I've always had a soft spot for MSNBC- ever since I posted an account on www.pprune.org about mobile phone interference with aircraft systems, and found myself quoted verbatim on msnbc less than two hours later!
Cyberpunk, of course, had journalist as a character class...

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Yeah, that would do nicely if you could keep it running during TEOTWAWKI.

Well, yeah, clearly that goes out the door when the nukes fly but ca. 1996, prior to the war, digital cameras and laptops weren't exactly unknown; that was my point.