Advice for a new GM.

[Rapparee]

Howya lads,

I've only ever had the fortune to play one game of T2K in my gaming life, a variant on Escape from Kalisz. Our 5th Division survivors merrily razed a fuel dump belonging to the 4th Guards Army before assaulting their rear headquarters group. Lack of understanding in commando tactics resulted in one player and two NPC's escaping the carnage and we sadly never followed it up.

But enough about me! I've a group of players that I'm trying to push into playing more military style games especially since when I happened to obtain pdfs of alot of the modules :D. Since they were playing WoD last year, it took a good while to try them on a Call of Cthulhu game but I finally had success by setting a CoC style campaign in Vietnam and making every second scenario just a typical day in 'Nam. Its been a long and cruel process but I think they're ready after Christmas. Finally I don't have to deal with vampires, werewolves and all that crap:L

I know the Polish modules mightn't appeal to the majority of them so I was thinking of running the aforementioned Escape From Kalisz as an intro and prequel and then maybe try them on Armies of the Night. Other modules that I'm sure would definetely pique their interest would be Allegheny Uprising, Satellite Down, Urban Guerilla, Kidnapped and maybe Boomer. I'd just be using them as guidelines but I was just eager for any general advice, especially on that of the modules if people are familiar with them and have played them or used them for a group.

Cheers!:D

[Panther Al]

Sounds like you are off to a good start, your players are clued in to modern games and seem to be open to the idea of a "realistic" game. From horrible personal experience don't drag out the escape from kalisz too long: enough to get them dialed into the mechanics and setting and then kill it the moment it becomes feasible and not one roll later. A prior gm insisted on training players till they "got it" which by the time we all got fed up with no real adventuring was a three months later: he still doesn't get why we all quit.

[Raellus]

You might just want to skip the Kalisz opener if you think your players would be more into one of the CONUS-based modules. Just start them off in the U.S. Based on their experience/knowledge/preference, they could be new draftees or veterans returned from combat overseas (or a mix of both).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

If you do want to stick with the 'Escape From Kalisz' scenario, I'd suggest you place the emphasis on the escape and evasion aspects and keep any heavy combat out until they're comfortable with the rules and the gameworld.

No matter what way you start them on their T2k experience, you could add some eerie/horror aspects to peak their interest at the start, for example: -

1. Have the scenario at night & describe battles in the distance as 'strange lights'. True the PCs may have been in combat before but if there's a mist rolling in (and they are common in Poland even in summer) and the light from fires (like say a forest on fire) and artillery/tank muzzle flashes are distorted by the mist and by distance the players themselves will probably let their imaginations conjure up something else. And sound will also be distorted by the mist and by distance. You could even throw in an unexpected storm with lots of lightning and wind.

2. Have them escape through a cemetery during the night, you can throw in every horror trick in the book to make them wary, odd noises, strange shadows but hey, it's just a rundown old cemetery that has a few terrified refugees hiding in it... or perhaps they're escapees from an asylum for the criminally insane. Again, the players will likely take what you describe and let their imaginations make it worse than what it really is.

3. During part of their escape, they could stumble through an old mass grave of unburied bodies (if they're in vehicles, it could be during one of their halts). The bodies are well covered in leaf litter and it's only when the pc's sit down that they find themselves 'crunching' through some poor soul's ribcage. When they start to really look, they can see movement under the leaf litter and they can see bones poking through here and there. Of course, the bones were already poking through, they just hadn't noticed them earlier and the movement, it's just local animals scurrying away from the noisy humans but the odd skull or two rolling down a hillock because it's been dislodged by an animal seeking to escape might help convince the players that there is more at work.

The idea here being that if you appeal to the player's liking for horror RPGs, you can slowly introduce the more military aspects of T2k and hopefully by the time they realize it isn't a 'horror' theme all the time, they're actually enjoying the game without worrying that it's not a genre they were initially interested in. You can keep it sort of survival-horror themed (but without the obvious 'horror' monsters) simply by the way you describe the scenes and encounters until they no longer need that hook to enjoy the game.

[Legbreaker]

Or going with something light like Gateway to the Spanish Main. I ran a group through that a few years back and it was brilliant - hundreds of soccer/cricket fans (it was end of season for one, beginning for the other) travelling about on sugarcane powered and severely overloaded busses with clouds of cannabis smoke trailing along behind them. Inept Cubans basically undersiege by underequipped locals. Retired US vets in their rose garden fortified village (complete with hidden fire lanes, weapon pits and garden gnome booby traps).

It was a blast!

[helbent4]

I know the Polish modules mightn't appeal to the majority of them so I was thinking of running the aforementioned Escape From Kalisz as an intro and prequel and then maybe try them on Armies of the Night. Other modules that I'm sure would definetely pique their interest would be Allegheny Uprising, Satellite Down, Urban Guerilla, Kidnapped and maybe Boomer. I'd just be using them as guidelines but I was just eager for any general advice, especially on that of the modules if people are familiar with them and have played them or used them for a group.


Rapparee

Maybe some tactical "cheat sheets" or perhaps NPCs with combat experience that can clue the players in is a good way to go. However, if they were doing some 'Nam gaming then they probably have a good grasp of things.

Kalisz is a good adventure and has a lot to recommend it, not to mention being a classic. European adventures have some advantages; Poland was set up specifically to be a kind of "wild west", where the PCs could do what they willed without having to deal with any kind of outside chain of command. On the other hand, being trapped far behind enemy lines imposes a certain kind of existential concern, plus the players will eventually find themselves picking up Warsaw Pact gear simply due to lack of outside supply, if they don't go native completely.

At least we do have the Internet now. Back when I ran Kalisz, the Black Madonna and Krakow in the mid-80's, I had no idea what Poland was like beyond the odd out-of-date library book. Much less how to pronounce "Czestochowa". With Wikipedia, now I can look up individual towns, vegetation, the Polish language, etc.

You might want to cut to the chase and start with Going Home. It's the tail-end of the first round of European adventures, of course, but once it's done the players are in a different continent, giving your game a more broader geographical sweep than the Vistula river valley.

Back in the USA, many adventures are written so that players can belong to either the MiLGOV or CIVGOV faction, depending on your or the players/PCs' sympathies, if any. They could even be freelancers ('armed contractors" or whatever you want to call them) if neither side appeals. (Many soldiers seem to despise civilian leadership in general, while backing MILGOV is like expecting American draftees fresh back from Vietnam backing an unconstitutional coup led by General Westmoreland in the aftermath of WWIII.)

Of the adventures you suggest, I'd advise Kidnapped or Urban Guerrilla. I've run the latter, and the former adventure is a key event in the post-war USA as the successful completion hamstrings New America, everyone's favourite bad guys. For specifically free-lance (ie: mercenary) groups, "Pennsylvania Crude" in Challenge 49 is a good choice.

One last piece of advice to a new GM is decide if you want to place restrictions on gear or let the players decide according to the generous rules in the main rulebook.

Some GMs go for a "gear light" scenario, restricting player choice to a greater or lesser degree depending on the rationale for the game start. Breaking out from Kalisz or with many of the other adventures, players are assumed to have as much supplies as they can carry and start mounted in vehicles up to and occasionally including tanks. The opposite end of the scale is the PCs barely escape with the clothes on their backs and not much more (if that). My experience is both methods have strengths and weaknesses.

Depending on their choices using the book method, the players can start with a wide selection of weapons and tools to allow for many different approaches. Unrestricted choice generally leads to considerable firepower, which can lead to stereotypical play. Certainly, you can impose some reasonable restrictions ("no nukes!") and you always get a veto, but to a degree your players are not going to lack for equipment and ammunition unless they make poor choices.

In my opinion, the standard starting equipment allowance is relatively straightforward to set up, is less likely to lead to player frustration (as the players have largely a free hand) and is therefore what I would recommend for a starting group and GM. A limited setup is probably more suitable for more experienced GMs, as it adds challenge to an already challenging and deadly game. It also requires very careful bookkeeping on the part of the GM and players. (If every shot must count, you must carefully count each shot.)

On the other hand, if you want a "gear lite" approach, "Gateway to the Spanish Main" has that as a suggested start. (The players start unarmed, shipwrecked and adrift after their prison ship is torpedoed.) Or, the sailing ship replica can pick them up in Europe for transport to the USA, stripping the PCs of vehicles but leaving them with what the ship can carry (which could be a lot!).

Tony

[bigehauser]

Sorry this isn't advice.

Ironically, I was a WWII reenactor in Dunedin, Florida. We were all armed with live weapons from WWII, and were members of a military/law enforcement museum there that has just about every weapon one can think of to include the oddities like the OSS weapons of WWII, and the GyroJet from Vietnam.

The catch of the irony: in Urban Guerrilla, there is a militant group in Dunedin called the Dunedin Rangers. I showed my friends the exert of the supplement talking about it, and we all had a good laugh. Weird, man. Weird.

I am originally from Tampa Bay, by the way, and have always wanted to run or be part of an Urban Guerrilla game that was put together by very knowledgeable Floridians.

[Adm.Lee]

Howya lads,

I know the Polish modules mightn't appeal to the majority of them so I was thinking of running the aforementioned Escape From Kalisz as an intro and prequel and then maybe try them on Armies of the Night. Other modules that I'm sure would definitely pique their interest would be Allegheny Uprising, Satellite Down, Urban Guerrilla, Kidnapped and maybe Boomer. I'd just be using them as guidelines but I was just eager for any general advice, especially on that of the modules if people are familiar with them and have played them or used them for a group.


Any of those American modules should work OK, I've read 'em all.
- I ran "Allegheny Uprising" once (see sig), but PvP conflict ended it PDQ.
- I played in "Sat. Down," I didn't like it so much-- I'm not a fan of adventures that key on the PCs infiltrating the bad guy camp.
-"Kidnapped," IMO, would be a good one to start with, as it gives them a finite mission, but lets them loose to achieve it on their own. It could be followed up by "Allegheny," since the areas aren't too far apart, and they can use some of the information they gathered on the way.
-"Boomer" would also work as a starter, if you say that the PCs were leaving Europe on a Navy ship, and were detailed to the SSN on the way home. After it's over, drop them off at the East Coast port of your choice.

I should mention that for me, the magic of the early Poland modules ("Krakow," "Black Madonna") was that they were set up without a story to follow. Instead, the PCs were given Something Important that they couldn't use themselves, but had to negotiate with the world around them to make real its value. The GM was given multiple NPC groups who could use the Something, and how that could happen. "King's Ransom" was the same way, and "Urban Guerrilla" is similar.

[Targan]

You might just want to skip the Kalisz opener if you think your players would be more into one of the CONUS-based modules. Just start them off in the U.S. Based on their experience/knowledge/preference, they could be new draftees or veterans returned from combat overseas (or a mix of both).

I agree with this. As a matter of fact in the opening few pages of Armies of the Night it talks about not having to have players who have already played through any of the European modules.

[Rapparee]

Gentlemen(if theres any ladies who commented, my apolagies!:L), cheers for the general advice, I'll admit I was surprised to get such an enthusiastic response!:D

I'll probably explain my choices!:L

Armies of the Night- I'll admit, an Escape from New York style thing automatically jumped to my mind! Plus it offers so much scope from cutting deals with gangs or going at them like the Punisher. A nice urban nightmare for them to experience.

Allegheny Uprising- Militia groups, survivalists, general anarchy amidst hunting for a survival cache, I know my players would love it. A mate of mine who plays T2K says his group loved it.

Satellite Down- My group are used to tackling cultists. This will put them back on familiar turf and it would be fun to watch how they go about infiltrating it. Their usual approach being blow away every cultist in sight. A nice infiltration mission for them I think.

Urban Guerilla- I've seen great reviews of it and it gives them a mission to accomplish, leaving it pretty open-ended.

Kidnapped- I feel I might have to over-emphasize that it is NOT an assassination mission but worth a shot!

Boomer- Reminds of the film version of Ice Station Zebra. Its straightforward and they'll love it!

[weswood]

Run'em through Armies of the Night first and play up the diseased canibals. Pale skinny gomers coming at you saying "I want to eat your brains!"

[helbent4]

Run'em through Armies of the Night first and play up the diseased canibals. Pale skinny gomers coming at you saying "I want to eat your brains!"

Wes,

If there's one post-apocalypse cliché that I wish would have a stake driven through it's heart, it's cannibals and cannibalism in general. I guess it's too tempting in gaming and fiction to have a postmodern "orc" to kill without mercy or guilt, so we'll keep seeing them. (I'm not referring to cannibalism relating to a criminal pathology or religious belief and ritual but so-called "survival" cannibalism where they actually hunt people down.)

Tony

[weswood]

Wes,

If there's one post-apocalypse cliché that I wish would have a stake driven through it's heart, it's cannibals and cannibalism in general. I guess it's too tempting in gaming and fiction to have a postmodern "orc" to kill without mercy or guilt, so we'll keep seeing them. (I'm not referring to cannibalism relating to a criminal pathology or religious belief and ritual but so-called "survival" cannibalism where they actually hunt people down.)

Tony

Yeah, well, like you said it's a good target for killing without mercy or guilt. Plus the gross-out factor.

[helbent4]

Yeah, well, like you said it's a good target for killing without mercy or guilt. Plus the gross-out factor.

Wes,

Ha, point taken... objection withdrawn!

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Wes,

Ha, point taken... objection withdrawn!

Tony

If you're going to do Armies of the Night....you have to "induce" the party into going into the sewers. They most likely won't have flashlights (and if they do, they don't have spare batteries)...so they are using torches in a dark damp environment....the evil GM now has two choices: if he is in a generous mood he introduces the players as to why it is not a good idea to introduce an open flame near methane gas...or he advises the team that they can hear the chittering of hundreds of thousands of rats...and they are hungry and din-din has just been served!

[helbent4]

Lee,

I didn't think that (outside of D&D) rats act aggressive towards adult humans, even en masse and while hungry. Actually, if there was no food for 2 years or so since the city was largely abandoned, the rat population would significantly decrease.

Reading about the "Dements" in AotN, it seems like they mined every freakin' cheesy post-apocalypse cliche about cannibalism and mental illness. Might as well throw a lampshade on the trope and have the cannibals dress in spiked leathers with mohawks, and dance around like they were at some kind of Satanic rave. (Come to think of it, much like Doomsday.)

I could see cannibalism as an isolated case someone who's a serial killer and cannibal (that is, cannibalism forms part of their pathology), perhaps even selling human meat. Not as a bestial animal-like "ape" but is someone who appears otherwise normal except they are really a sociopath. These individual would be capable of normal (or almost-normal) human interaction, tool-use and planning and can eat normal food like everyone else, but they hunt humans due to a compulsion. But otherwise they would be camouflaged as just another survivor.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

I didn't think that (outside of D&D) rats act aggressive towards adult humans, even en masse and while hungry. Actually, if there was no food for 2 years or so since the city was largely abandoned, the rat population would significantly decrease.

Actually rats are known to eat just about anything ranging from cardboard, to electrical insulation. If anything, I'd expect more rats since there would be a lack of controls, and lots of food sources. Don't forget, NYC is not abandened, there are several groups of people, so there would still be plenty of trash and sewage to keep the rats happy. Besides, it plays on a primal factor, I've seldom seen players not chringe when a DM takes the time to properly deliver a rat attack, its all in the delivery!

Reading about the "Dements" in AotN, it seems like they mined every freakin' cheesy post-apocalypse cliche about cannibalism and mental illness. Might as well throw a lampshade on the trope and have the cannibals dress in spiked leathers with mohawks, and dance around like they were at some kind of Satanic rave. (Come to think of it, much like Doomsday.)

I could see cannibalism as an isolated case someone who's a serial killer and cannibal (that is, cannibalism forms part of their pathology), perhaps even selling human meat. Not as a bestial animal-like "ape" but is someone who appears otherwise normal except they are really a sociopath. These individual would be capable of normal (or almost-normal) human interaction, tool-use and planning and can eat normal food like everyone else, but they hunt humans due to a compulsion. But otherwise they would be camouflaged as just another survivor.

No arguement from me! Dements and "body deformed from climbing up and down stairs everyday" just lacked something (if nothing else thighs by Arnold and some great high-impact). Besides, what's more chilling, the black-garbed mutant freak (ala Omega Man) that runs around waving a gore encrusted axe and screaming and talking in tongues; or the team that runs into a clean (sorta) bunch of civilians that are just so glad to see the soldiers who might consider escorting them to safety and wouldn't you'all like to join us in our home-cooked meal...and then have the PC make a run for the trees and discover the butchered remains of last nights dinner guests?

[helbent4]

Actually rats are known to eat just about anything ranging from cardboard, to electrical insulation. If anything, I'd expect more rats since there would be a lack of controls, and lots of food sources. Don't forget, NYC is not abandened, there are several groups of people, so there would still be plenty of trash and sewage to keep the rats happy. Besides, it plays on a primal factor, I've seldom seen players not chringe when a DM takes the time to properly deliver a rat attack, its all in the delivery!

Lee,

Too true. Enemies like rats, wolves and of course cannibals are great in that they play on primal and cultural fears far beyond their real-world impact.

Rats may be able to survive on garbage, but people still need to produce the garbage, at least the "food" garbage that allows rats to thrive. You'd see a period of intense growth when there is uncollected trash and unburied bodies, but when the food garbage is gone and they have to feed on far less nutritious material, their population will crash.

Sewage production will largely cease when there are few people to produce it, and what little remains will not be as rich a food supply as before the war. That said, while "Giant Sewer Rats" are indeed a common fantasy trope, I can't actually find anything that says rats eat sewage itself. Rather, I think they eat food waste and live in sewage tunnels because they are convenient, but food waste will be almost nonexistent in survivor communities. Some rats will remain, relative to the food supply. Two years after there will be rats mostly near where people live, but they will be again limited by their food supply. Unlike pre-war, survivors are going to waste as little food as possible (what they don't eat they will recycle or use as compost) and probably adopt an aggressive attitude towards rat control. So, there will still be controls on the rat population.

I feel like something of a killjoy! I was helping a friend playtest a Hârn adventure last week and we were attacked by wolves, and I couldn't help pointing out why that was a little unlikely under the circumstances. ("Yeah, yeah, shut up, Farley Mowatt.")

...wouldn't you'all like to join us in our home-cooked meal...and then have the PC make a run for the trees and discover the butchered remains of last nights dinner guests?

Still a great memory from your Morrow Project game (AL R-14?) for me, no matter what! Nonetheless, it's such a common occurrence in post-apoc RPGs I even call it an "SWC" ("Surprise, We're Cannibals!") event.

1) A group of "normal" NPCs sics the group on a bunch of "cannibals", whereas they are really getting the players to do their dirty work for them.

2) Members of a cult or religion or other sect under a charismatic leader who has deliberately instituted cannibalism in a ritual form. Both as a central belief and a tenet of group identity (shared taboo-breaking).

3) A group that deliberately cultivates an image and reputation for savagery and cannibalism as a means of psychological warfare and for self-defence. I mean, unless you test the meat for human protein you kind of have to take their word for it!

4) A criminal syndicate that is really killing people and selling their bodies as meat.

Tony

[Targan]

I feel like something of a killjoy! I was helping a friend playtest a Hârn adventure last week and we were attacked by wolves, and I couldn't help pointing out why that was a little unlikely under the circumstances.

Hârn? Did you say Hârn? Oh joy of joys, another Hârn person on the boards. My playing group and I played Hârnmaster for literally a couple of decades (one campaign went for around 15 years real time). Awesome setting and rules system. Very deadly though. Combat is never to be taken lightly. And a decent sized pack of wolves in Harnmaster is a terrifying encounter, well capable of wiping out all but the best equipped and hardened PC group.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Hârn? Did you say Hârn? Oh joy of joys, another Hârn person on the boards. My playing group and I played Hârnmaster for literally a couple of decades (one campaign went for around 15 years real time). Awesome setting and rules system. Very deadly though. Combat is never to be taken lightly. And a decent sized pack of wolves in Harnmaster is a terrifying encounter, well capable of wiping out all but the best equipped and hardened PC group.

Noooooooooooo!! Don't encourage Targan :p:p:p

[helbent4]

Hârn? Did you say Hârn? Oh joy of joys, another Hârn person on the boards. My playing group and I played Hârnmaster for literally a couple of decades (one campaign went for around 15 years real time). Awesome setting and rules system. Very deadly though. Combat is never to be taken lightly. And a decent sized pack of wolves in Harnmaster is a terrifying encounter, well capable of wiping out all but the best equipped and hardened PC group.

Targan,

Hârn was always the "serious" FRPG to play when growing up. I've played Hârn on and off for decades, mostly one-off playtests for friends with the odd campaign here and there. I think at HârnCon in 2003 I met N. Robin Crossby (he gave me kudos for some RP) although I'm sure our paths have crossed before.

Wolves in Hârn tend to be realistic, in that they won't attack unnecessarily. These ones seemed to be attacking without good reason other than the plot demanded it, so I went over the adventure with my buddy the GM and we kind of figured out something more fitting for the situation. (It was too early in the winter for wolves to be hungry enough to attack a medium-sized group of mounted riders, if they would attack at all.)

My PC was a priestess of Peoni, so her plan was basically to get the hell out of dodge.

Tony

[Targan]

(It was too early in the winter for wolves to be hungry enough to attack a medium-sized group of mounted riders, if they would attack at all.)

Ah I see. I hadn't counted on the group being mounted. In our traditional Hârnmaster games we'd be lucky to have even one character on a horse. When I run Hârnmaster campaigns (in fact most campaigns including T2K) I always give each player a short "pre-game" for their PC (I find it helps create emotional investment and individual goals in PCs and avoids the "you all meet in an inn" campaign start situations so common in games like D&D). One player's first PC unfortunately died during his pre-game when he decided to take a short cut through wilderness from one Ivinian village to another (by himself) and was surrounded and killed by wolves. Naturally the player was upset that all that effort in rolling up a character had gone to waste but it was a pretty heroic fight.

[helbent4]

Group,

Cannibalism came up tangentially in this thread, so this may as well go here. Cannibalism exists in real life, but it's inclusion in fiction is typically cliché, especially in post-apoc fiction and gaming. That is, a horrific practice by bestial sub-humans or gangs of degenerates, usually involving degradation and torture to emphasise the "evil" nature of the act, even taking centre stage in recent "nuke porn".

But it does exist, and I there are articles to support at least the biological and even evolutionary rationale of cannibalism:

http://www.slate.com/id/2278240/

My objection is not that cannibalism happens as a part of famine or ritual, as these are well-documented. Merely as a kind of symptom of being feral or uncivilised on some level, symbolistic of a fall from grace or profound loss of humanity. Speaking of survival/famine cannibalism and documentation, new evidence (or the lack thereof) casts doubt on the story of cannibalism among the Donner party (denied by most of the survivors themselves):

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/no-cannibalism-among-the-donner-party/

Tony

[Targan]

There is a famous story here in Australia about a group of convicts (and one convict in particular) who resorted to cannibalism after escaping custody in Tasmania during the early 1800s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pearce