Trade between the KFS and Texas

[Matt W]

I'm thinking that Vicksburg would be the nexus for trade between Texas and the KFS. Goods from the KFS go down the river to Vicksburg. Goods from Texas (cattle?) go along Interstate 20 to Vicksburg

Question is.. what would the KFS trade? Would it just be gold? Or would there be some special "Texas Grade" exports? If so, what would they be?

[nuke11]

I would say Oil and Cattle from Texas and coal? timber? and industrial based goods from the KFS like processed cotton, steel, portland cement that sort of thing?.

Information and knowledge could also be of value to Texas.
Food would also go both ways.

Not sure if Gold really would be of use, maybe as a trade item to Mexico?

[robj3]

Matt W wrote:
Question is.. what would the KFS trade?

Tobacco, hemp/cannabis, bourbon.
Other pharmaceuticals (from coal tar or oil feedstocks).
Limited amounts of machinery and other advanced items, in keeping with the 'Trade Rifle' concept.
Horses, or horse semen for breeding purposes.
Education (cultural outreach for KFS + intelligence purposes)

In terms of bilateral trade, there are some problems.

Texas is a major coal producer (5th largest in 2000, Kentucky 3d), so no coal to Texas.

Kentucky/Tennessee are major cattle producers today, so cattle may not be all that tradeable.

Texas and Tennessee are major cotton producers today, so cotton is in a similar boat.

Texas -> KFS:
citrus, melons (luxury trade?)
peanuts and pecans
vegetables?
oil
wool (Texas major sheep state today)
Pre-TEOTWAWKI items (machinery, electronics, plans for same)

[robj3]

After doing a bit of a rummage around at the U.S. Geological Survey, I've found that there are no salt deposits in the Kentucky-Tennessee region (bounded by the Ohio river to the north and west, the Tennessee river to the south and west and the Appalachians to the east as per Bullets and Bluegrass).

Salt and seafood from Texas to the KFS looks like a good idea.

There are zinc, cadmium and phosphate deposits in the KFS which Texas lacks.
Given the potential strategic importance of phosphate it may not be available for export, though.

Another agricultural option in either direction might be tea - ISTR tea plantations in the Carolinas, so climate should be OK. Coffee from Mexico and the Caribbean. Sugar from Cuba and Mexico.

Out of left field - pearls are cultured along the Mississippi and in Texas. Maybe the pearl trade is running after a fashion.

[Matt W]

hmm... instead of a "Silk Road", maybe it's a "Coffee Road"?

Long distance trade between Texas and KFS is likely to be based on luxury items. Texas could sell imported coffee (from the Caribbean) and perhaps other vices like cocaine. It would receive Kentucky bourbon in return. There may also be a market for various exotic furs

Other luxuries? Well, at the risk of descending to stereotype, let's not forget entertainment. Country & Western music artists and NASCAR drivers could be making trips to perform for fans in both states. And - if not appearing in person - their recordings could be physically transported.

[robj3]

Matt, you wrote:
Long distance trade between Texas and KFS is likely to be based on luxury items.

What assumptions are you making about the transport network?

Given where the salt and phosphate/phosphorus are, there may be a substantial bulk trade. Both sides need these for industry and agriculture and they each control or have best access to one or the other.

Other luxuries?
Horse and cattle for breeding purposes (agricultural warfare opportunities?)

Fruit and vegetables from Texas (refrigerated transport available? seeds or cuttings for planting?)

[Matt W]

Matt, you wrote:


What assumptions are you making about the transport network?

Given where the salt and phosphate/phosphorus are, there may be a substantial bulk trade. Both sides need these for industry and agriculture and they each control or have best access to one or the other.



Well, if it was bulk trade then it would almost all be via coastal/river shipping. There might be various types of shipping - from homemade flatboats and scows to self-propelled barges

[robj3]

Matt, you wrote:
Well, if it was bulk trade then it would almost all be via coastal/river shipping.

Agreed. What about the state of overland traffic between Texas and Vicksburg?
It's about 200 miles from the eastern border of Texas; portage along the Red
River may be a better bet. The Red meets the Mississippi about 50 miles NW
of Baton Rouge LA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Redrivermap1.jpg

This would make places like Denison TX or Shreveport LA important (we could move the Texas border east a bit to include Shreveport).

Coastwise shipping would make heaps of sense given the geography of Texas (navigable rivers in most of the Republic?), though it implies that New Orleans and Baton Rouge are probably back up and running...

[Matt W]

Some trivia about the Mississippi River: the US Army Corps of Engineers keeps it flowing below Simmesport. If it wasn't for them, most of the water would heve been diverted to the Atchafalya River Basin - returning New Orleans to its condition of salt-water bayous (Actually, I suppose that's not very trivial if you happen to live in Louisiana)

Long article here http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1987/02/23/1987_02_23_039_TNY_CARDS_000347146?currentPage=1

So.. I'm tempted to say that, yes, the Red River is essentail for KFS/Texas trade - but so are overland routes (there are possibilities in Arkansas)

[mikeo80]

IMHO, trade between these entities would be limited to a few items.

1) Raw materials needed for whatever industries exist in both areas.

2) Very high end consumer good heading to KFS.

Reasoning:

KFS and Texas both need raw materials as they continue to grow the military and the economy of both areas.

Texas, esp 1st Cav would not want to deal with the repressive KFS. But greed is still greed. Any high end consumer goods would be targeted toward the Rich Five and the higher ranking administrators.

Once KFS launches the conquest of surrounding areas, I think that Texas would cut all trade.

Depending on time line, IF Texas problem with Mexico is at low simmer, I could see 1st Cav deploy toward KFS. Not to attack, but to defend Texas. IF 1st Cav is rebuilding after latest attack from Mexico, KFS could take huge chunks of Texas. In this type of scenario, Texas is in DEEP do-do.

My two cents worth! :D

Mike

[robj3]

Matt, thanks for the article.

This isn't trivial information at all.
After 150 years without US ACE intervention, the flow down through the Mississippi might be negligible.

So.. I'm tempted to say that, yes, the Red River is essentail for KFS/Texas trade - but so are overland routes (there are possibilities in Arkansas)

Texarkana - Little Rock - Memphis?
Texarkana - Greenville?

Mikeo80,
2) Very high end consumer good heading to KFS.

Texan industrial base doesn't seem to be up to this, unless you're thinking about jewelry or similar (non-electronic or mechanical) luxury items.

From the 'Operation Lonestar' module, average standard of living is late 19th century, with some capacity associated with Texas A&M to maintain the Fort Hood relic weaponry and some radios.

IF 1st Cav is rebuilding after latest attack from Mexico, KFS could take huge chunks of Texas. In this type of scenario, Texas is in DEEP do-do.

Agreed; the KFS have more armor and artillery. Their (in)ability to maintain logistic support is going to limit a prolonged campaign in Texas (shades of Napoleon in Russia?)