Check out the new shotgun!!

[dragoon500ly]

Was flipping through the latest Tactical Weapons and saw this new offering from Kel-Tec intended for LEO use.

It is a bullpup, pump action 12 gauge shotgun with a capacity of 14 rounds. No box mags, no rotary mags, just two 7-round magazines mounted side by side. And since it is a slide-action repeater...its civilian legal just about anywhere that doesn't ban magazines with more than 10 rounds or high-capacity autoloaders....which means anywhere outside the People's Republic of California!!!!

Its called the KSG:

Length: 26.1 inches
Width: 2.3 inches
Height: 6.9 inches at the pistol grip
Weight Empty: 6.9 pounds
Weight Loaded: 8.5 pounds
Caliber: 12 gauge
Chambering: 3-inch Magnum
Barrel Length: 18.5 inches
Feed Device: independent, parallel horizontal tube magazines
Magazine Selection: to rear of pistol grip
Capacity: 7 rounds each in two mags (7+7), 1 in the chamber
Sights: Anything M1913 rail compatible
Action: Slide-action repeater
Safety Selection: Cross-bolt

Not in production yet....but the reviews so far are impressive!

[Snake Eyes]

That thing is pretty bad-ass. I'd like a range day with one. And since the CA hi-cap ban doesn't apply to tubular magazines, I might actually get the chance.

[pmulcahy11b]

Not to toot my own horn, but I put it on my site on the last update.

[Legbreaker]

Hmmm, today is the 1st of April isn't it?

[Tegyrius]

Hmmm, today is the 1st of April isn't it?

Yeah, but Kel-Tec announced this particular joke a few months ago.

I'd be a lot less skeptical about it if it weren't a Kel-Tec product. I don't have a good feeling about their QC, based on P32/P3AT horror stories.

- C.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hmmm, today is the 1st of April isn't it?

It's legit, I've seen info about the KSG from some time in February. It appears to be a reworking of the South African Neostad shotgun.
Link 1 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/shotgun-kel-tec-ksg-e.html)
Link 2 (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/robert-farago/kel-tec-ksg-not-so-easy-eh-mr-bond)

[HorseSoldier]

Yeah, exactly, it's based on the earlier Neostad, which was never available in the US if I'm not mistaken.

[TiggerCCW UK]

I'd been just about to post that it sounded like the Neostad....

While we're on the subject of Kel Tec, I recently saw an advert for the PMR 30 - looks decent bit of kit, although I think there have been all kinds of issues with shipping delays for it. From what I've read its an update of an old Grendel design. Is the .22 magnum round enough to turn it into a reasonable weapon, or is it still best suited for plinking?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTizq4NCto

They also built an SMG variant, solely to test the magazines apparently - looks like a lot of fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GxFws8B7k&feature=related

[Tegyrius]

I'd been just about to post that it sounded like the Neostad....

While we're on the subject of Kel Tec, I recently saw an advert for the PMR 30 - looks decent bit of kit, although I think there have been all kinds of issues with shipping delays for it. From what I've read its an update of an old Grendel design. Is the .22 magnum round enough to turn it into a reasonable weapon, or is it still best suited for plinking?

Varmint round. Gelatin penetration with most loads is <9", which seems to indicate it's not going to reliably cause incapacitation in a human target. YMMV.

- C.

[pmulcahy11b]

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol). The main virtue seems to be magazine capacity, but I don't think the T2K rules adequately illustrate the damage difference between a .22 Long Rifle round, a .22 WMR round, and heavier rounds like .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum. (Or for that matter, between .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum themselves.)

[pmulcahy11b]

Hmmm, today is the 1st of April isn't it?

You are in tomorrow in Australia, still the 31st here. Got to love that Date Line.

[Tegyrius]

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol).

I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm thinkin' it'll be pretty darn close to the Colt SCAMP. The .22 SCAMP round was 40 grains at 2100fps at the muzzle; .22 WMR's 40-grain load runs around 1900fps.

- C.

[Legbreaker]

You are in tomorrow in Australia, still the 31st here. Got to love that Date Line.

We're not tomorrow, you're just behind the times...

:D

[bobcat]

You are in tomorrow in Australia, still the 31st here. Got to love that Date Line.

we aren't in tomorrow. your just living in the past.:D

but really i'm looking forward to this. only problem i see is the conveiniance store cops might decide it has no legitimate sporting purpose and label it a destructive device.(at which point i fork over the tax and file the paperwork and get one anyway.)

[TiggerCCW UK]

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol). The main virtue seems to be magazine capacity, but I don't think the T2K rules adequately illustrate the damage difference between a .22 Long Rifle round, a .22 WMR round, and heavier rounds like .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum. (Or for that matter, between .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum themselves.)

I was thinking that in purely game terms it would make a decent sidearm in Dark Conspiracy, possibly for some of the corp security units.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Varmint round. Gelatin penetration with most loads is <9", which seems to indicate it's not going to reliably cause incapacitation in a human target. YMMV.

- C.

Would the rapid follow up shot potential (and huge magazine capacity) not limit this as a problem? Surely three or four hits from a .22 magnum would still sting bit?

[Legbreaker]

Sting, yes. Take down reliably, no, not much chance of that.