British Infantry Rifles

[James Langham]

At the minute this just covers the standard rifles, when I have time I will add sniper rifles, etc.

[95th Rifleman]

I must admit mate, I'm impressed! Good write up, well researched and the fictional bits are well written and make sense.

[Rainbow Six]

Nice piece of work - I particularly like the quotes in the sidebars.

Well done.

[Raellus]

Good work, as always, James.

[Rockwolf66]

Good Article about the regular British Army. I know that the SAS and whatever the 14th Intelligence company is now designated uses some different weapons.

For the 14th they use the

Walther PPK
Browning High Power(probably replaced by the SIG P226)
MP5K
HK53 short assault rifle
G3KA4 short assault rifle

The SAS uses similar weapons, but given that they are tasked with Direct action some things are added lile the M16 with M203.

Then Again this is TW2K and some things didn't happen and other things got put into production.

[95th Rifleman]

The SAS uses similar weapons, but given that they are tasked with Direct action some things are added lile the M16 with M203.

Then Again this is TW2K and some things didn't happen and other things got put into production.

The SAS use the modified Canadian variant of the M4 with the M203. They also tend to use whatever they happen to pick up so it's hard to come up with any kind of standard issue list for them. Generaly they will start out with a selection of M4's, LMGs and sniper rifles and end up with whatever they can find or need in the field.

In the 90's the anti-terror SAS units did tend to be more standardised, carrying the MP5 and 9mm Browning HP sidearms.

[Rockwolf66]

That list I posted is from a former 14th Intel company member. The unit was formed to gather intel on the IRA and thus their weapons are compact and concealable. in the TW2K timeline I know that they would turn their bag of tricks on the Russians.

You have to admire the dedication of someone who is willing to live inside a briar patch for a week in order to get good intelligence.

Unfortunatly for me my knowledge of the SAS is limited to some family accounts and some limited info about the SAS in Gulf War 1*.

*No I do not own Bravo Two Zero.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

In the 1990s the British SASR definitely used M16A2 (or Canadian C7) rifles with some fitted with M203s. One of my friends got his hands on them when the Brit SAS came to Australia for some desert training prior to Gulf War 1. He was fortunate enough to be one of the local troops assigned to assisting them while they were in Western Australia.

Forgot to mention, the M16A2(C7) were Safe-Single-Auto trigger groups and not the US Army's Safe-Single-Burst type

[Rockwolf66]

Cracking open my copy of Sabre Squadron, they mention the following.

Giat 20mm Autocannon(not used in the Gulf War because it wasn't fully tested.

Milan Missile Launcher fitted with MIRA

M2HB QCB

FIM-92 Stinger

M16A2
M203

MK-19

81mm mortar
51mm Mortar

M72 LAW

LAW90

M202 "Flash"

FN MAG


I know I'm forgetting some stuff but you get the idea.

[HorseSoldier]

In the 1990s the British SASR definitely used M16A2 (or Canadian C7) rifles with some fitted with M203s. One of my friends got his hands on them when the Brit SAS came to Australia for some desert training prior to Gulf War 1. He was fortunate enough to be one of the local troops assigned to assisting them while they were in Western Australia.


Very nice write up.

On the SAS weaponry, I don't know if the L119s would exist in the Twilight War timeline. US and everyone else's enthusiasm for M4 style carbines probably did not take hold to the same extent and in the same way, with M4/C8/etc being more of a personal defense weapon than a primary. Not to say the SAS wouldn't be running CAR-15s, Canadian C8s, or US M4s, just that I don't see them having a version tweaked to their requirements (largely driven by Iraq/Afghanistan) in the Twilight timeline (in either of them).

Forgot to mention, the M16A2(C7) were Safe-Single-Auto trigger groups and not the US Army's Safe-Single-Burst type

As described in the write up, wartime procurement was a mix and match of US and Canadian weapons. I think all the real world M16s in UK service (not counting post-9/11 stuff like the 119s) were the original safe-semi-auto fire control group. Does anyone know if they were upgraded to keep them compatible with SS109 ammo when NATO switched over and how/who did the upgrades? Did they just slap A2 uppers on their existing lowers?

[James Langham]

Good Article about the regular British Army. I know that the SAS and whatever the 14th Intelligence company is now designated uses some different weapons.

For the 14th they use the

Walther PPK
Browning High Power(probably replaced by the SIG P226)
MP5K
HK53 short assault rifle
G3KA4 short assault rifle

The SAS uses similar weapons, but given that they are tasked with Direct action some things are added lile the M16 with M203.

Then Again this is TW2K and some things didn't happen and other things got put into production.

14 Int are now the Special Reconnaissance Rgt.

Royal Military Police Close Protection teams also used most of these.

P226/228 is now on general issue in Afghanistan.

SAS etc tend to use the C7 and C8, they previously also used the Car15 (see the film Who Dares Wins for a good shot that showed this before it was ever officially stated).

I'll put some notes in on these for the next edition.

[Legbreaker]

Does anyone know if they were upgraded to keep them compatible with SS109 ammo when NATO switched over and how/who did the upgrades? Did they just slap A2 uppers on their existing lowers?

I know that the M16A1's we had over here had nothing done to them at all and we were putting SS109 through them. May not have been an ideal match of rifle and ammo, but they still worked.

[James Langham]

Very nice write up.

On the SAS weaponry, I don't know if the L119s would exist in the Twilight War timeline. US and everyone else's enthusiasm for M4 style carbines probably did not take hold to the same extent and in the same way, with M4/C8/etc being more of a personal defense weapon than a primary. Not to say the SAS wouldn't be running CAR-15s, Canadian C8s, or US M4s, just that I don't see them having a version tweaked to their requirements (largely driven by Iraq/Afghanistan) in the Twilight timeline (in either of them).



As described in the write up, wartime procurement was a mix and match of US and Canadian weapons. I think all the real world M16s in UK service (not counting post-9/11 stuff like the 119s) were the original safe-semi-auto fire control group. Does anyone know if they were upgraded to keep them compatible with SS109 ammo when NATO switched over and how/who did the upgrades? Did they just slap A2 uppers on their existing lowers?

In my campaign the current heavily mod's weapons are far less common. As stated above Car15s are more common (but still unusual) for the SAS.

The M16s were the original trigger group. As far as I am aware the weapons were never upgraded as they were phased out at that time as the L85A1 was coming on stream. They just went into storage and new M16A2/C7s were bought for those who needed it.

[Rockwolf66]

14 Int are now the Special Reconnaissance Rgt.

Royal Military Police Close Protection teams also used most of these.

P226/228 is now on general issue in Afghanistan.

SAS etc tend to use the C7 and C8, they previously also used the Car15 (see the film Who Dares Wins for a good shot that showed this before it was ever officially stated).

I'll put some notes in on these for the next edition.

My info is dated to the first Gulf War so it works for a TW2K game.

Generally the usual image of the SAS is guys who apear out of nowhere driving vehicles that could take out anything seen in the film Death Race. They might trade for some local info or maybe a few comfort items and any high value target in the area goes boom...Heck the destruction of high value targets in an area is usually how you know they are around.

[James Langham]

My info is dated to the first Gulf War so it works for a TW2K game.

Generally the usual image of the SAS is guys who apear out of nowhere driving vehicles that could take out anything seen in the film Death Race. They might trade for some local info or maybe a few comfort items and any high value target in the area goes boom...Heck the destruction of high value targets in an area is usually how you know they are around.

Depends on the environment, Europe will be more foot work and close observation as opposed to direct action (at least while airstrikes are available).

[95th Rifleman]

Depends on the environment, Europe will be more foot work and close observation as opposed to direct action (at least while airstrikes are available).

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

[James Langham]

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

[95th Rifleman]

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

Good point

[HorseSoldier]

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

[pmulcahy11b]

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

That was 1/10th SFG. In addition, part of the SFDB's job was to exfiltrate West Berlin and do sabotage and hit-and-run raids in East Germany and East Berlin.

[James Langham]

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

Of course all of this goes out of the window in Twilight 2000 with the way the war starts...

[Rockwolf66]

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

I'm going by reports comming out of the first Gulf war. Yes they did mostly call in Airstrikes...But they also did some direct action missions. A Squadron of the 22nd SAS did perform a direct action at a high value target at Victor 2. the target was supost to be protected by a platoon of about 30 men. Durring the strike they found themselveds in a firefight with ten times that number. Other scudhunting groups prepared to go with direct actions in the case of Human shields. I'm not saying that it's their primary mission, most of my kin's actions in the past 50 years was gathering intelligence and leading a Firqua. That's one of the gratest strenghts of the SAS they adapt to the tactical and stratigic needs of Great Britan.

[Targan]

That's one of the gratest strenghts of the SAS they adapt to the tactical and stratigic needs of Great Britan.

The SAS troopers at their main base not far from me, at Campbell Barracks in Swanbourne, don't usually seem to have much interest in "adapting to the tactical and strategic needs of Great Britain" :D .

[95th Rifleman]

The SAS troopers at their main base not far from me, at Campbell Barracks in Swanbourne, don't usually seem to have much interest in "adapting to the tactical and strategic needs of Great Britain" :D .

Dunno, if we need a bit of support out there I'm sure our colonial kin will be willing to lend a hand.

[James Langham]

Dunno, if we need a bit of support out there I'm sure our colonial kin will be willing to lend a hand.

Even without officially playing some of them turn up in Poland helping against the Russians! :)

[Legbreaker]

Even without officially playing some of them turn up in Poland helping against the Russians! :)

Or are they really helping the Russians against NATO? They wouldn't be the first of the west's allies to switch sides...

[Brother in Arms]

A couple other firearms to consider could also be the British made version of the G3A3 and G3A4 which I have personally seen when I was in england all had enfield markings! Great write up.

Brother in Arms

[James Langham]

A couple other firearms to consider could also be the British made version of the G3A3 and G3A4 which I have personally seen when I was in england all had enfield markings! Great write up.

Brother in Arms

When did you see them? HK was British owned in the 1990s.

[James Langham]

Good Article about the regular British Army. I know that the SAS and whatever the 14th Intelligence company is now designated uses some different weapons.

For the 14th they use the

Walther PPK
Browning High Power(probably replaced by the SIG P226)
MP5K
HK53 short assault rifle
G3KA4 short assault rifle

The SAS uses similar weapons, but given that they are tasked with Direct action some things are added lile the M16 with M203.

Then Again this is TW2K and some things didn't happen and other things got put into production.

Is it the PP or the PPK?

Also the Welrod silent bolt action pistol.

[Brother in Arms]

I saw them around 2007 or 2008 they were in a massive arms dump in England. There where about 25 of them or so and they all had green furniture much to my suprise when I inspected them they had enfield markings.

[Rockwolf66]

Is it the PP or the PPK?

Also the Welrod silent bolt action pistol.

It's the PPK in .22 long rifle

[pmulcahy11b]

Also the Welrod silent bolt action pistol.

Last known use of the Welrod was by the SAS in the Gulf War. Amazing how those old suckers can hold out.

[Rockwolf66]

Last known use of the Welrod was by the SAS in the Gulf War. Amazing how those old suckers can hold out.

I visited the Force recon camp at pendelton in 1999 and they still had supressed High Standard Pistols in their armory. At the time I thought that it was front heavy for a .22 pistol.

[James Langham]

It's the PPK in .22 long rifle

I just have a mix of sources showing PPK or PK in 7.65. My guess is both are used.

[James Langham]

Last known use of the Welrod was by the SAS in the Gulf War. Amazing how those old suckers can hold out.

My favourite is the Sten Mk IIS used in Vietnam!

[Rockwolf66]

I just have a mix of sources showing PPK or PK in 7.65. My guess is both are used.

Maybe, the sources I'm using are "The Operators" by James Rennie and personal conversations with another vetran of Northern Ireland who I am not naming because of both privacy and security issues.

[HorseSoldier]

I visited the Force recon camp at pendelton in 1999 and they still had supressed High Standard Pistols in their armory. At the time I thought that it was front heavy for a .22 pistol.

Also in use with Army SF up until the 9/11 timeframe. I think all the examples floating around were Vietnam vintage, or so I was told (they were gone by the time I showed up in '04 or so, but only recently).

[dude_uk]

So by 1998 your looking at something like-

British 'regular' army and TA equipped with the SA80/LSW, but augmented by the minmi and UGL as an essential war purchase.

Regular reserve- Those earmarked to reinforce British forces abroad get SA80. Those who do not get the L1A1

'Home defence' units- Those General service units (GSU's) and home service force get whichever they are issued.

With regards to sterling making AR-18's rather than further SA80's, isn't possible with the contract to fix them another attempt at flogging them around the world could occur? With it coming a limited production line? Might as well try to make some money out of it.

Also what about webbing? By the Gulf war PLCE is in full swing for replacing pattern '58. Pattern 58 being skipped and by '97 the entire army equipped with it. Do L1A1 7.62mm magazines fit in PLCE' pouches?

Good document though!

[James Langham]

So by 1998 your looking at something like-

British 'regular' army and TA equipped with the SA80/LSW, but augmented by the minmi and UGL as an essential war purchase.

Regular reserve- Those earmarked to reinforce British forces abroad get SA80. Those who do not get the L1A1

'Home defence' units- Those General service units (GSU's) and home service force get whichever they are issued.

With regards to sterling making AR-18's rather than further SA80's, isn't possible with the contract to fix them another attempt at flogging them around the world could occur? With it coming a limited production line? Might as well try to make some money out of it.

Also what about webbing? By the Gulf war PLCE is in full swing for replacing pattern '58. Pattern 58 being skipped and by '97 the entire army equipped with it. Do L1A1 7.62mm magazines fit in PLCE' pouches?

Good document though!

Some SLRs abroad - 2nd line main (as per the Gulf).

Will probably add a note about A2 sales attempts but really there is little new manufacture, I see Stirling as just doing upgrades.

Vast amounts of 58 in warehouses reissued. PLCE is main webbing for regulars although chest rigs and assault vests making an appearance (more of the former than the later). Biggest problem with reissuing 58 was squaddies hanging onto 58 belts as they were superior to the plastic one.

SLR mags wont fit in early PLCE with dividers in the pouches. Improvisation using a water bottle or utility pouch as an ammo pouch would be common (these were designed so that they would fit as some rear troops just used one (double) ammo pouch). 58 pouches fit but are awkward with the yoke.

[HorseSoldier]

Are the L85 PLCE mag pouches doubles or triples?

You can get two FAL mags in an American ALICE 3x30 5.56mm mag pouch, but you'd want to stuff the bottom with a spare field dressing or two to make them easier to retrieve. I'd imagine the same would be true with PLCE pouches. (The American ALICE 3x30s had dividers as well. Most everyone cut them out as soon as they were issued back in the day.)

Improvisation using a water bottle or utility pouch as an ammo pouch would be common (these were designed so that they would fit as some rear troops just used one (double) ammo pouch).

Water bottle/canteen pouches are definitely good ammo pouches. Vietnam era US troops used them preferentially to the issue mag pouches, as they could hold more mags with reasonable retention and were quicker to get into (US pouches being open topped -- am I remembering right that PLCE has a lid?). They'd also be a good deal for anyone having to make do with an AK or other alternate weapon using non-STANAG mags (including L1A1s).

[Legbreaker]

We were able to get three SLR mags in the Steyr mag pouches - it's a squeeze but it can be done.
The ideal though was to use the 200 round minimi pouch for the 20 round 7.62 mags.
FYI, 100+ rounds of 7.62 will fit in the minimi pouch. It's not perfect and stretches the pouch well out of shape, but it's better than holding it in your hands....

[James Langham]

Are the L85 PLCE mag pouches doubles or triples?

You can get two FAL mags in an American ALICE 3x30 5.56mm mag pouch, but you'd want to stuff the bottom with a spare field dressing or two to make them easier to retrieve. I'd imagine the same would be true with PLCE pouches. (The American ALICE 3x30s had dividers as well. Most everyone cut them out as soon as they were issued back in the day.)



Water bottle/canteen pouches are definitely good ammo pouches. Vietnam era US troops used them preferentially to the issue mag pouches, as they could hold more mags with reasonable retention and were quicker to get into (US pouches being open topped -- am I remembering right that PLCE has a lid?). They'd also be a good deal for anyone having to make do with an AK or other alternate weapon using non-STANAG mags (including L1A1s).

The PLCE ammo pouches that are issued are a double pouch with each holding 3 magazines. Early versions had dividers that were removed by later versions. They are easy to remove with a knife anyway. Commercially there are also singles and triple pouches available.

Sounds as if SLR mags might fit after all (I don't have one handy to check).

PLCE water bottle pouches do have a lid, many squaddies however use the entrenching tool pouch for a water bottle (it is a perfect fit but you can't carry the mug).

58 webbing will hold 4 x STANAG mags, 5 if you force them in making them hard to remove. A common trick with 58 webbing was to get cardboard or plastic inserts to keep the pouch rigid, mainly for parades but sometimes in the field.

ALICE pouches fit on both PLCE and 58 webbing but slide around.

[Legbreaker]

ALICE pouches fit on both PLCE and 58 webbing but slide around.
Where there's a will...
Whenever I needed new pouches, or simply had the opportunity to go over gear what was being returned to the Q-store, I'd take the oldest, rustiest clips I could find. The newer plastic ones were ok if you needed to modify your webbing fairly regularly, but there's nothing like a decent bit of rust to keep things in place.
Electrical tape and baling wire also have plenty of uses on webbing and even a bit of scrim wedged strategically into place can help firm things up.

In my opinion, a soldiers webbing should receive nearly as much care and attention as their weapon - webbing that comes apart or slides around in combat is at best a serious nuisance and at worst can get you killed.

[Ramjam]

I cheated on my webbing. I pot riveted all the pouches to my belt and to each other. The buggers never came off after that and it was a nice fit without anything bouncing around.
As has been said, where there's a will there's a way.

[Legbreaker]

I know a few people who did that but thought it wasn't the best idea as it meant you couldn't change your webbing easily if you were suddenly handed the machinegun and needed to carry belts instead of mags.

[Targan]

I used a lot of tape on my webbing, and as mentioned by Leg the padding things out with bits of scrim trick works well too. All the old hands that I encountered in the infantry treated webbing set up and maintenance like an art.

[Legbreaker]

It is an art. It's amazing how many just throw it together and wonder why it all comes unstuck in the field and why they're always developing sores and blisters.
Boots are the same - they have to fit well and be kept supple with leather dressing / polish. A soldiers feet also need serious attention, airing them out as often as possible, changing socks as often as possible and treating even the smallest problem immediately.

It's the attention to these sorts of detail which seperate the real soldiers from the pretenders. Much of this attention to detail tends to be ignored in the field by novices though and reserved for the parade ground.

A soldiers weapon must be maintained properly to function correctly. The soldier himself should give his body the same attention or they're going to fall in a heap eventually.

[Targan]

Boots are the same - they have to fit well and be kept supple with leather dressing / polish. A soldiers feet also need serious attention, airing them out as often as possible, changing socks as often as possible and treating even the smallest problem immediately.

Sorry, continuing to stray OT here. It is a point of some humour among my family and friends that since the army all I have ever worn on my feet is boots. I do own a pair of running shoes but I honestly couldn't say where they are in my house. I wear boots when out walking, boots at the office, boots when going out socialising. I'm more than happy to pay good money for decent boots.

I guess at some point in the early 90s I got it stuck in my head that boots are what real men wear and that was that. For many years I cycled to work every day and wore boots riding my bike. Although I'm not quite the 'action man' I once was i still feel that one advantage of always wearing boots is that my feet are very used to it and I can leap into action at any time with little fear of injuring my feet. There are a number of occasions over the years where unexpected accidents would have resulted in broken toes or other foot injuries had I not been wearing boots.

My current daily wear boots are 8" Magnum Interceptor waterproof boots. Very comfortable, reasonable ankle support, have prooved to be quite durable so far.

[Legbreaker]

You know I'm exactly the same. Although basically confined to the office I wear almost nothing but boots when I'm not barefoot. Good solid boots with decent ankle support and a strong hard sole.
I wore my old issue black GPs into the ground but still have my browns for when I'm out bush cutting firewood or whatever. They're a good 16+ years old now and still going strong due to the regular dressing they get (although the tread is a bit worn). Oddly enough I've still got (and wear) some of my issue socks which still don't have any holes in them despite being nearly 20 years old.
They just don't make things like they used to!

[Targan]

I wore my old issue black GPs into the ground but still have my browns for when I'm out bush cutting firewood or whatever. They're a good 16+ years old now and still going strong due to the regular dressing they get (although the tread is a bit worn). Oddly enough I've still got (and wear) some of my issue socks which still don't have any holes in them despite being nearly 20 years old.
They just don't make things like they used to!

Hah! Same here. I still wear my Army issue browns when I'm in the bush but the soles are well worn now, sadly. My last pair of issue socks finally died eight or nine years ago.

[Legbreaker]

I heard a medic say once that he could tell a newbie from an old hand just by the condition of their feet. Anyone who'd been in the infantry less than about 6 months could barely walk with tinea, blisters and raw flesh while the older soldiers never seemed to have an issue (except maybe tinea they'd picked up in the communal showers, but even then it was under control).

[HorseSoldier]

It is an art. It's amazing how many just throw it together and wonder why it all comes unstuck in the field and why they're always developing sores and blisters.


Back in the ALICE kit days everything was supposed to be tied on or dummy corded with 550 cord, at least in some units I was in. Some of the more enterprising guys would replace the metal ALICE clips with nothing but 550 cord to minimize rubbing and hot spots.

The thing I see today with the MOLLE stuff is a lot of my Joes get issued a rifleman's kit vest and use it as is without any thought given to whether the pre-assembled set up works, is optimal for them, etc. Most of them don't even have a concept of what an optimal set up is, with kit or weapons, and have to be beat over the head with the right thing to do, rather than what looks cool or is easiest/most comfortable.

[Legbreaker]

In the early days we'd buy (later it became standard issue) a padded liner for inside the belt. Eliminated any issues with the clips rubbing completely, and added a couple more inches of width to your waist which also meant a few more inches of belt space for pouches, etc. For a thin man like myself (at the time) those extra few inches were a godsend!

[James Langham]

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

Might be worth checking my article on 27SAS too.

[James Langham]

Updated version adding sniper rifles, a note about SF rifles and a few minor edits.

[pmulcahy11b]

It is an art. It's amazing how many just throw it together and wonder why it all comes unstuck in the field and why they're always developing sores and blisters.
Boots are the same - they have to fit well and be kept supple with leather dressing / polish. A soldiers feet also need serious attention, airing them out as often as possible, changing socks as often as possible and treating even the smallest problem immediately.

Although I'll admit to getting trenchfoot in Basic, I learned a lot from that, and from that point always had lots of dry socks and if I had room, another pair of boots. I didn't use foot powder because when combined with sweat it turned into scratchy sand. I bought moisturizing cream instead. A lot of people laughed because I polished my boots in the field or or laved them with Neat's Foot Oil, but it kept my boots in good shape. Back at the unit, I washed them with saddle soap quite often. The only real problem with my boots I had was right boot sole wear (I pronate slightly).

And I wore my LBE in a strange way, high on my waist, almost to the level where the web belt was at the bottom of my rib cage. It just felt the most comfortable to me there.

[James Langham]

Now with two new rifles and SMGs (hence the change of name). Pistols and MGs to follow.

[Badbru]

James, Illustration (Pic) 24, RUC member is NOT holding a G3 as the text says. That weapon is an HK33 in 5.56N.

Otherwise excellent. Also there was a typo "was" instead of "way". I suspect spellchecker incorrectly interpreted some othe typo.

[James Langham]

James, Illustration (Pic) 24, RUC member is NOT holding a G3 as the text says. That weapon is an HK33 in 5.56N.

Otherwise excellent. Also there was a typo "was" instead of "way". I suspect spellchecker incorrectly interpreted some othe typo.

Thanks, I should have looked more closely at the pic, wherever I got it from had it listed as a G3 so I just used that without looking carefully. At least that is easy to change.

If there is only a single type that is almost unique for me!

Thanks for the comments, both will be corrected in the next version.

[headquarters]

quality stuff.

Cool pics too. would have taken a fairbit of google fu to aquire I imagine.

[Tackleberry]

Updated version adding sniper rifles, a note about SF rifles and a few minor edits.

L96 originally was fitted with a 6x S&B scope, but was upgraded to a 3.5-12x50 S&B scope with SIMRAD Image Intensifier night vision capability.
L118 is an SF only weapon, with the ability to swap to a suppressed barrel and 6x S&B scope and SIMRAD II.

1991 .50" M82 Barrets also became SF sniper rifles with a 12x scope. Originally these were EOD weapons, but were never cleared for non SF use after CHS issues. The Accuracy International AW 50 Bolt action .50 Sniper rifles replaced the M82's in EOD units and in small numbers came into SF service.

HK G3K's and Stoner AR18's were also used by SF units.

[James Langham]

quality stuff.

Cool pics too. would have taken a fairbit of google fu to aquire I imagine.

Some are real nightmares - the AR18 used by 10 Para trooper was a Godsend though.

Average pic takes about 5 min.

[James Langham]

L96 originally was fitted with a 6x S&B scope, but was upgraded to a 3.5-12x50 S&B scope with SIMRAD Image Intensifier night vision capability.
L118 is an SF only weapon, with the ability to swap to a suppressed barrel and 6x S&B scope and SIMRAD II.

1991 .50" M82 Barrets also became SF sniper rifles with a 12x scope. Originally these were EOD weapons, but were never cleared for non SF use after CHS issues. The Accuracy International AW 50 Bolt action .50 Sniper rifles replaced the M82's in EOD units and in small numbers came into SF service.

HK G3K's and Stoner AR18's were also used by SF units.


Thanks,

I'm generally staying clear of SF kit for now. Do you have in service date of the L96 upgraded scope.

Interested to see AR18 as an SF weapon - do you have a source for that - the only UK reference I have found is the one used by NITATT (plus those in museums after tours of Ireland...).

[James Langham]

Expanded version. Can anyone see anything I need to add (other than SF kit)?

[James Langham]

I've now added the fictional L85A3 and Sterling 5.56 plus a few other minor edits.

[Targan]

Great work as always, James. The document needs some additional sub-editing, there are a few minor spelling mistakes and missing parentheses) and a line of text is obscured by the top of a photo on page 5. Not really a criticism, just letting you know.

[James Langham]

Upgraded version with stats and in the style of the similar Warsaw Pact Guide. Sorry about the low res but it's right at the limit of the site upload limit. I am building a new web site that will have higher res versions. Next guide is planned to be German weapons.

Would it be useful if I added hand held AT weapons?

Any other comments or suggestions?

[B.T.]

Next guide is planned to be German weapons.

Would it be useful if I added hand held AT weapons?

On the German Weapons Guide? Some AT weapons are missing in the rules, so I'd love to see them. I would like to lend a helping hand on the German stuff, if you're okay with that, James.

[Raellus]

I'd like to see more on the modern German panzerfaust AT weapon. It's sadly absent from nearly all of my weapon books. I'm sure there's stuff out there on the interweb I could find, but I like it better when James does it.:)

[Panther Al]

Minor nit: In the AK section you have a L47A1. In the Walther Section, you also have a L47A1. Was it possible for the British System to have two items with the same ID number?

[B.T.]

I'd like to see more on the modern German panzerfaust AT weapon. It's sadly absent from nearly all of my weapon books. I'm sure there's stuff out there on the interweb I could find, but I like it better when James does it.:)
Game's data is on Paul's site (Rocket Launchers - German). The older Panzerfaust (It was called the "leichte PzFst" in German service, Paul has it under "Panzerfaust 44-2A1") and the Panzerfaust 3 are both presented.

[James Langham]

Minor nit: In the AK section you have a L47A1. In the Walther Section, you also have a L47A1. Was it possible for the British System to have two items with the same ID number?

Actually that is entirely possible as technically they should be called the Rifle, L47A1 and Pistol, L47A1. As nobody ever uses the L series numbers when describing the weapons this is no problem e.g. the L1A1 is ALWAYS the SLR and the L2A3 is the SMG (formal) or Sterling (more common).

[Panther Al]

Actually that is entirely possible as technically they should be called the Rifle, L47A1 and Pistol, L47A1. As nobody ever uses the L series numbers when describing the weapons this is no problem e.g. the L1A1 is ALWAYS the SLR and the L2A3 is the SMG (formal) or Sterling (more common).

Beauty. Was wondering so I thought I would point it out.

Otherwise, really good. I love that you covered the official acceptance of the fact that the AK would see service in some form or another.

[James Langham]

Beauty. Was wondering so I thought I would point it out.

Otherwise, really good. I love that you covered the official acceptance of the fact that the AK would see service in some form or another.

Will put a note in the next rewrite, comparing to US use of M series codes.

It seems logical to use it as so many would be captured and I can't see weapon production keeping pace. Plus I have so many useful photos with squaddies with AKs.

[Rainbow Six]

Cracking job James...I like the sidebars with the quotes - really bring it to life. Was Staff Sergeant Nancy Aird RMP married to a Fusilier called Paddy by any chance?

Very minor point re: the photos...in the section on the SLR the picture is captioned as showing a member of 5/8 Queens Regt - should that be 5/8 Kings Regt?

[James Langham]

Cracking job James...I like the sidebars with the quotes - really bring it to life. Was Staff Sergeant Nancy Aird RMP married to a Fusilier called Paddy by any chance?

Very minor point re: the photos...in the section on the SLR the picture is captioned as showing a member of 5/8 Queens Regt - should that be 5/8 Kings Regt?

There are a few in jokes, quite probably she was.

It should be Kings - will correct.

Can anyone see anything to add? So far I have M72, LAW80 and Carl Gustav plus the rifle grenades. Oh and the kukri.

[Rainbow Six]

Can anyone see anything to add? So far I have M72, LAW80 and Carl Gustav plus the rifle grenades. Oh and the kukri.

How about rubber bullets? (Not sure if that comes under the rifle grenade category?)

[pmulcahy11b]

How about rubber bullets? (Not sure if that comes under the rifle grenade category?)

Please, this topic has driven me quite insane already. And I already have a head start...:D

This is probably not as hard as trying to simulate chokes (as on shotguns), but nonlethal rounds still drives me nuts.

[B.T.]

Can anyone see anything to add? So far I have M72, LAW80 and Carl Gustav plus the rifle grenades. Oh and the kukri.

Hi James,
maybe some words on the MILAN are justified.

And speaking of the kukri - what a bout the "MOD 4". Maybe not a real beauty, but scary as hell. From all I've read about that "survival knife", it may be really hard to slice bread with it, but an ideal tool, if you don't have a crowbar with you :D

[ArmySGT.]

According to the "Small Arms Identifications Series, .303 Marks I & II" by Ian Skennerton.

With the adoption of the 7.62N in December 1953 some were converted to the new round and the "L" series nomenclature.

.303 No. 4 Mark 2 L8A1
.303 No. 4 Mark 1/2 L8A2
.303 No. 4 Mark 1/3 L8A3
.303 No. 4 Mark 1 L8A4
.303 No. 4 Mark 1* L8A5

With the intention of issue to Police and Security Forces. This conversion was done by Sterling as well as a commercially available conversion kit for .303 to 7.62N.