Getting to know your M16

[Brother in Arms]

This is a post I have been thinking about writing for a while. Most people here may already know the information but I thought I would clear up the basic differences between the M16, M16A1 and M16A2 by there basic features.

M16 Features:

Windage Adjustable rear site with fixed carry handle
No Forward Assist on upper receiver
No Shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe , Semi and Auto selection
No fence around magazine release button on lower reciever
cylindrical hand gaurd slip ring
Early models have 3 prong flash hider
Light contour barrel
20 round magazine standard
Early models have no buttrap for cleaning kit
Late Models have buttrap for cleaning kit
triangular hand gaurd



M16A1 Features:
Windage Adjustable rear sight with fixed carry handle
Forward Assist on upper reciever, tear drop shape
No shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe, Semi and Auto selection
Full fence around magazine relase button on lower reciever
Cylindrical hand gaurd slip ring
Early models have 3 prong flash hider
Late models have birdcage flash hider
light contour barrel
20 round magazine standard
Buttrap for cleaning kit
triangular hand gaurd

M16A2
Windage and elavation adjustable rear sight with fixed carry handle
Forward assist on upper reciever, round shape
Shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe , Semi and Burst Selection
Full fensce around magazine release button on lower reciever
Reninforcement to rear of lower reciever
Convex hand gaurd slip ring
Enhanced Birdcage flash hider
light contour barrel under hand gaurd, heavy contour outside of hand gaurd
30 round magazine standard
Buttrap for cleaning kit
Round ribbed hand gaurd
one finger groove added to pistol grip

[Legbreaker]

All the M16A1's I've ever seen/used have included a shell deflector on the upper reciever.

[Targan]

All the M16A1's I've ever seen/used have included a shell deflector on the upper reciever.

Were there differences in exported versions of the M16A1?

[pmulcahy11b]

All the M16A1's I've ever seen/used have included a shell deflector on the upper reciever.

I've never seen an M16A1 with a shell deflector. As a matter of fact, lefties, particularly female lefties, had considerable problems with hot brass being ejected down their BDU tops -- so much that the Army improvised a snap-on plastic brass deflector for lefties to use on the range.

[Brother in Arms]

Colt made m16A1's with shell deflectors, but these were made for DIEMACO or Colt Canada for the C7 rifle. I have never seen a Shell deflector on a M16A1 that was used by the US military. Its possible they were used on rifles for export periods before the M16A2 was put into production.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I don't recall seeing M16A1s with shell deflectors when I was in the Australian Army Reserve but I do know that we sourced a lot of spares from North America before we switched to the AUG. These spares where a mix of old and new M16A1 parts along with M16A2 parts (such as forestocks and buttstocks for example)

Plus we also had M4 carbines on issue to the Commando Regiments, the SASR and the navy Clearance Diver units

[Legbreaker]

The 16's we had over on the east coast were definitely Colt M16A1 uppers and definitely included the deflectors.
All other features identifying the A1 listed in brothers post were present.

[James Langham]

This is a post I have been thinking about writing for a while. Most people here may already know the information but I thought I would clear up the basic differences between the M16, M16A1 and M16A2 by there basic features.

M16 Features:

Windage Adjustable rear site with fixed carry handle
No Forward Assist on upper receiver
No Shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe , Semi and Auto selection
No fence around magazine release button on lower reciever
cylindrical hand gaurd slip ring
Early models have 3 prong flash hider
Light contour barrel
20 round magazine standard
Early models have no buttrap for cleaning kit
Late Models have buttrap for cleaning kit
triangular hand gaurd



M16A1 Features:
Windage Adjustable rear sight with fixed carry handle
Forward Assist on upper reciever, tear drop shape
No shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe, Semi and Auto selection
No fence around magazine relase button on lower reciever
Cylindrical hand gaurd slip ring
Early models have 3 prong flash hider
Late models have birdcage flash hider
light contour barrel
20 round magazine standard
Buttrap for cleaning kit
triangular hand gaurd

M16A2
Windage and elavation adjustable rear sight with fixed carry handle
Forward assist on upper reciever, round shape
Shell deflector on upper reciever
Safe , Semi and Burst Selection
Full fensce around magazine release button on lower reciever
Reninforcement to rear of lower reciever
Convex hand gaurd slip ring
Enhanced Birdcage flash hider
light contour barrel under hand gaurd, heavy contour outside of hand gaurd
30 round magazine standard
Buttrap for cleaning kit
Round ribbed hand gaurd
one finger groove added to pistol grip

Really useful but I would leave out the magazine as a feature as that depends entirely on year (as far back as Vietnam, some M177s were issued with 30 round mags).

There is also (especially in TW2000) the possibility of weapons taking bits from different series - M16A1s with A2 handguards for example are common. not just on TV/film but also by some militaries.

[HorseSoldier]

When I was in the Nat'l Guard in the early 90s for a while we still had M16A1s fitted with A2 handguards (and maybe buttstocks, can't recall). Eventually replaced with remanufactured A1s converted to A2s with a new upper on an A1 lower with new trigger group and and "auto" ground off and overstamped with "burst." In the Twilight War timeline both those formats would likely be common on the battlefield.

(And both those set ups were quite a bit less off the wall than some on the mixmaster carbines I saw on occasions I worked with USAF units 2004-2008. )

[Brother in Arms]

The list of M16 type rifles with various features was created to give you an Indea of the appearance of basic forms of these rifles that might be issued to U.S./NATO soldiers in the T2K world.

And I have been doing more reasearch on the M16A1 upper with shell deflectors. From what I have found Colt did make M16A1 recievers with shell deflectors but not until later just before M16A2 production began. So far I have seen comercial and export versions of rifles and carbines with shell deflector on them. I have also talked to a few armorer who were repairing A1's and they said they did reciev uppers as replacement parts very late that had shell deflectors. Colt did manufacture uppers for the C7 rifle and it was the last large scale production rifle that used the A1 upper with the shell deflector. This was the highest level that the M16A1 upper evovled into. Some of the M16A1E1 rifles prototypically had these very late reciever types and of course soon there after had the A2 type upper. I guess the best way to say is Most M16A1's do not have the shell deflector on the reciever...but some do. Typical of the way Colt does things. There were many models of rifles in the 70's and 80's that had a mish mash of old and newer parts. Especially when you get into the various carbines that they made before the M4 had become standardized. The Airforce as previously mentioned had some of the most frankenstien AR's in the GAU 5 series of carbines.

Also with the Magazine I simply put them there to give you an Idea what the rifles would originally been issued with when they first came out. 30 round magazines where issued to some units very late in vietnam. I haven't seen many pictures earlier than 1969 or 70 with 30 round magazines. Also many of the soldiers pictured with them only have one and this can be easily seen by there webbing and are carrying 20 roung mags in pouches. Colt had a lot of production issues with the early 30 round mags (mostly related to the followers) I have actually seen a very rare vietnam era picture with a soldiers with what appears to be a 50 round magazine! It is extremely curved and long and I have never had any eplanation of it from any AR historians.
30 round magazines would be the most common magazine in the Twilight war.

I totally believe M16 rifles would be a mixture of whatever repair parts could be had at the time. Armorers haven't always had the luxury of keeping strict conventions so you fix a rifle with the parts you have. I have seen many M16A1's with A2 round hand gaurds, pistol grips or busttocks. Personally I like the A1 the best but the A2 hand gaurds are much stronger than the old triangular ones. On the other hand I prefer the A1 buttstock and pistol grip.

If I was a NATO soldier in T2k world I would do what I could to aquire a good M16A1 and if I could get an A2 hand gaurd and I feel Id be pretty well equipped.

[pmulcahy11b]

When I was in the Nat'l Guard in the early 90s for a while we still had M16A1s fitted with A2 handguards (and maybe buttstocks, can't recall). Eventually replaced with remanufactured A1s converted to A2s with a new upper on an A1 lower with new trigger group and and "auto" ground off and overstamped with "burst." In the Twilight War timeline both those formats would likely be common on the battlefield.

(And both those set ups were quite a bit less off the wall than some on the mixmaster carbines I saw on occasions I worked with USAF units 2004-2008. )

When I did my second AIT in the early 90s (to change to 11B from 11C), our M16s were a mishmash of A1 and A2 parts, meaning some of us had anything from A1s with A2 handguards to A1 bodies with A2 internal parts. Mine was an A1 with A2 handguards, an A2 stock, and an A2 pistol grip.

[Rockwolf66]

I have actually seen a very rare vietnam era picture with a soldiers with what appears to be a 50 round magazine! It is extremely curved and long and I have never had any eplanation of it from any AR historians.

I've read about it in Kevin Dockerty's book "Weapons of the Navy SEALs"

I don't have the information at hand right now but I'll get the information to you soonish.

[Griff]

I've seen 50rd "Banana" mags' in Shotgun News and other pubs, but two of buddieis have warned me off them. Serious jamming and spring wear issues from multiple sources. As with everything involving the M16 family of weapons, the high tech, $1,000+ weapon is made useless by stamped out crappy mag'.

God bless the logistics command folks, they're always looking out for the Soldier! ;)

[Rockwolf66]

I've seen 50rd "Banana" mags' in Shotgun News and other pubs, but two of buddieis have warned me off them. Serious jamming and spring wear issues from multiple sources. As with everything involving the M16 family of weapons, the high tech, $1,000+ weapon is made useless by stamped out crappy mag'.

God bless the logistics command folks, they're always looking out for the Soldier! ;)

The 50 rounder that the Seals tried out is a different design internally to the magazines found in the Shotgun News. The Vietnam era 50 rounder pulled the ammo up insted of trying to push it up. there werethree versions of them and the third version was acctually well liked by the users except that they couldn't shoot from prone. What killed the MOD 3 fifty round magazine was post Vietnam Budget Cuts.

[Griff]

In '89 we field tested 50/100/200 round drum mags' because the "banana" mag was to long, but decided against them because if they weren't loaded properly they were a flaming pain to fix in a fight, not to mention heavy as hell. We also didn't have all the nice "gucchi" gear that's on the market today, so we had no way to carry all those fancy mags in the first place.

Saw some SEAL and SF teams with them. They used them as first mags only. Saw a couple of the 50rnd Bananas with the SEALs too, even though they couldn't get in the prone with it and it still jammed on them. The springs just couldn't handle to weight/tension for long. Just not worth the effort overall.
Thanks for the reminder though, hadn't thought about that in years.

[HorseSoldier]

30 round magazines where issued to some units very late in vietnam. I haven't seen many pictures earlier than 1969 or 70 with 30 round magazines.

My dad's second tour was real late in the war (71-72) with an air cav unit (F/4th Cav). By that point, going by photos 30 rounders were either extremely common or just universal, at least with them -- with both the guys in the Blues Platoon and the pilots that carried CARs using 30 round mags.

[James Langham]

My dad's second tour was real late in the war (71-72) with an air cav unit (F/4th Cav). By that point, going by photos 30 rounders were either extremely common or just universal, at least with them -- with both the guys in the Blues Platoon and the pilots that carried CARs using 30 round mags.

From memory, Car15s were actually ordered with 30 round mags (although many were supplied with 20s) so these may well have had them first.

[Brother in Arms]

All the Vietnam era photos I have seen of 30 round mags have been in XM-77e1 or XM-77e2...So you are most likely correct on this. Also SF quys always have a way of getting the new cool stuff.

[pmulcahy11b]

I've read about it in Kevin Dockerty's book "Weapons of the Navy SEALs"

I don't have the information at hand right now but I'll get the information to you soonish.

That's what I get for sleeping! I have that book on my desk, since I was checking something in it yesterday.

[waiting4something]

The M16A1 did have a full magazine fencing on the magazine well, the XM16E1 had a partial fence. They were used side by side in vietnam so I think alot of people just see a E1 and think its a A1. I think the E1's also had a non- trap door buttstock originally.

[Brother in Arms]

sir you are quite correct

The M16A1 did use the full fence lower, the M16 Slabside, M16E1 partial fence. Many of the M16E1 where used along side of the M16A1 and got upgraded stocks, flash hider ect. That was a typograhphical error and has been corrected.

[Rockwolf66]

That's what I get for sleeping! I have that book on my desk, since I was checking something in it yesterday.

Hey sleep is a good thing. I know that sometimes staying up 48 hours or more is fun but it really throws your sleep pattern for a loop.

As far as Kevin goes he's an interesting source of information who really does know the man who shot bin Ladin(He just doesn't know that the guy shot bin Ladin). He's also gotten me some information on the EX-41 Grenade Launcher and some info on "Ol' Painless", the Predator/T2 minigun.

[waiting4something]

The EX-41 or China Lake Pump grenade launcher has always got my attention. The Seals and other elite units in Vietnam had some of the coolest stuff ever. I read somewhere that only 5 of these pump action grenade lauchers made it to Vietnam. 3 went to the Seals, 1 went to Force Recon, and 1 to Army Special Forces. Don't mean to side track the M16 topic, but the China Lake Pump just gets me pumped. I would also like to make a clone of a model 7188 shotgun, but I doubt I ever will because the time, labor, and money it would take. I think after the Cold War everyone tried to standardize making everything the same and boring. The variety nowdays is pretty slim.

[pmulcahy11b]

As far as Kevin goes he's an interesting source of information who really does know the man who shot bin Ladin(He just doesn't know that the guy shot bin Ladin). He's also gotten me some information on the EX-41 Grenade Launcher and some info on "Ol' Painless", the Predator/T2 minigun.

You're not going to try to tell me that there's a real hand-held 7.62mm minigun? The XM214 could be fired hand-hand after a fashion, but that gun in Predator was pure fiction.

[Brother in Arms]

Agreed on the EX-41 its fascinating.

The 7188 is a very rare firearm indeed but I don't think it would be that hard to make a semi-auto clone.

[pmulcahy11b]

Hey sleep is a good thing. I know that sometimes staying up 48 hours or more is fun but it really throws your sleep pattern for a loop.

Oh, when I was a young'un and not on all this medication and without aches and pains to screw up my sleep, I could manage 48 hours awake no problem. I did over a 100 hours on one field problem in Korea, though I was a zombie towards the end of that period. And when the bipolar part of my schizoaffective disorder started hitting really heavy, I could get a high and go for weeks with an hour of sleep or less a night. I was just a bit screwy during that time...

Do you realize that in a little over 10 months I'll be eligible to join AARP?

[Rockwolf66]

You're not going to try to tell me that there's a real hand-held 7.62mm minigun? The XM214 could be fired hand-hand after a fashion, but that gun in Predator was pure fiction.

The Predator/T2 minigun was geared down to 1,250 rounds per minute. Back when it first came onto the open market it came with a set of blanked and a set of live barrels. I have a friend who knows the current owner and it has been used with live ammo on occation.

the Predator/T2 minigun was partially designed and built by Jesse Ventura(mainly the ammo backpack and the carrying harness). for T2 it was redesigned by Harry Lu to the configuration that is most commonly used Today. It was sold off when Stembridge gun rentals went out of buisiness. Currently it is in the hands of Dan Shea of Small arms Review and Longmountain outfitters.

The Minigun from the Second Resident Evil movie is a real Minigun that was cut down to almost nothing and placed in an aluminum shell. Even with blanks the muzzleblast was incredible according to Al Verkjan the armorer who built the weapon.

Armorer Steve Karnes has built three different handheld Miniguns for film useing Dillan Aero Miniguns(GI Joe, Terminator Salvation and Transformer's 2). Those miniguns are two M134D and one M134DT. he's used carbon fiber for the ammo packs and modified the feeding system to feed into the weapon from the same side as it comes out of the backpack. I'll have to ask him if he's changed the gear ratio on the weapons.

As far as the EX-41 goes It's a very cool prototype weapon.Thankfully Paul doesn't confuse it with the China Lake Grenade launcher.

[HorseSoldier]

If anyone is interested in the developmental history pre-M16A1 and some of the more obscure variants that have been out there along the way, Retro Black Rifles (http://retroblackrifle.com/) is a pretty cool website, with photo references and information on what parts you'd need if you were going to try to build a replica.

There's also a forum about retro rifles on AR-15.com which sometimes has some good information. (Including a guy who built a repro of an M231 Firing Port Weapon.)

[waiting4something]

If anyone is interested in the developmental history pre-M16A1 and some of the more obscure variants that have been out there along the way, Retro Black Rifles (http://retroblackrifle.com/) is a pretty cool website, with photo references and information on what parts you'd need if you were going to try to build a replica.

There's also a forum about retro rifles on AR-15.com which sometimes has some good information. (Including a guy who built a repro of an M231 Firing Port Weapon.)

Thanks for the link. The retro guns are more fascinating to me then the M4A1 clones that everyone and their mother owns nowdays. I bet in some areas you can't drive 2 blocks without someone having one. They are cool and good rifles, but damn when everyone has one it gets boring. The majority of my AR-15's are retro style since I guess anything with a fixed carrying handle is retro nowdays. I almost jumped on a department of energy 9mm upper once but wimped out, because I couldn't justify spending the $3,500 for it. In the long run I think the retro style guns pre-M16A2 will be worth more money too, if you ever sell them.

[waiting4something]

Agreed on the EX-41 its fascinating.

The 7188 is a very rare firearm indeed but I don't think it would be that hard to make a semi-auto clone.

There was a guy on ar.15.com that did one. It looks great too. He said it took him about 3 years to complete. He also did a Remington 870 Mark 1. Unless your a skilled machinist which I'm not, the 7188 would be a hard project. I did get my hands on a old school Mark 3 or 6 Remington 870 bayonet mount so a Remington 870 Mark whatever clone is in the works. I also plan on doing a Winchester 1200 trench shotgun repro.

[Brother in Arms]

Sir I also love retro AR's even though not much of an AR guy.
I am working on a Colt 610 right now and I am also building a KISS rifle not that its exactly retro but it does have a C7 upper.

As for the Semi-auto 7188 I found the thread on AR-15.com he did an amazing job. A 1200 trench gun would be good as its definitly a forgotten U.S combat shotgun.

I am a bit into Remington Model 11 shotguns and I have a Short bonnie and clyde style "whippit gun" that I may do over into a legal SBS. On the other hand I might add a magazine extension to it and make it into a semi modern "combat shotgun" because no one uses A5 type guns these days.

interesting side note...guess I should post more M16 type firearms maybe do carbines next.

[waiting4something]

Sir I also love retro AR's even though not much of an AR guy.
I am working on a Colt 610 right now and I am also building a KISS rifle not that its exactly retro but it does have a C7 upper.

As for the Semi-auto 7188 I found the thread on AR-15.com he did an amazing job. A 1200 trench gun would be good as its definitly a forgotten U.S combat shotgun.

I am a bit into Remington Model 11 shotguns and I have a Short bonnie and clyde style "whippit gun" that I may do over into a legal SBS. On the other hand I might add a magazine extension to it and make it into a semi modern "combat shotgun" because no one uses A5 type guns these days.

interesting side note...guess I should post more M16 type firearms maybe do carbines next.

I have a Auto-5 myself. I thought about putting a magazine tube extension on it too, but I can't find any. I know Choate used to make them back in the 80's, but they don't anymore. Mine kicks pretty hard for some reason. Someone told me it was because the stock had been cut down a little (not whippit gun cut down), but slightly cut down.

Post as much stuff as you can about the M16 please. It's a great topic that can go on and on.

[waiting4something]

You know it be awesome to have a M177/GAU-5 commando clone with the big moderator flash suppressor. Something is just cool about that look. The one big probelm with making one, is the moderator flash suppressor counts as a suppressor according to the BATFE. So it going to cost you $200 for a tax stamp for a flash suppessor!

[HorseSoldier]

Yeah, though lookalike flash hiders that thread onto standard 16" barrels and cover back from the muzzle run about $30.

[95th Rifleman]

On the subject of the M16 it may be worth mentioning some of the more unusual modifications.

One that caught my attention was the AR57 reciever which takes an M16 or M4 and modifies it to use the P90's 5.7mm magazines.

While the magazine is strange and seemingly complicated the 5.7mm round has really good penetration. In a world of increasingly common body armour (hell even the bloody insurgens are showing up with body armour these days) this is a factor worth considering.

As far as I'm aware the 5.7mm and HK's 4.6 are the main contenders for the future NATO standard sidearm/SMG/PDW round (assuming NATO actualy has a future).

[Rockwolf66]

Locally while the AR15s fly off the shelves the AR57 thats in one of the local gunshops has been there for months. The ammo is not that common and most people prefer the much better performance of the 5.56mm round.

Personally I would love to get a dedicated 10mm AR15. I've handled a 9mm uppered Olympic arms AR and while neat the conversion block in the weapon falls out when you hit the standard AR magazine release. That isn't good as the 9mm magazine uses a differen mag release that's on the adaptor block.

[waiting4something]

Yeah, though lookalike flash hiders that thread onto standard 16" barrels and cover back from the muzzle run about $30.
I know and it most likely is a better set-up since you have the extra barrel lenth, but it's just not the same. I want to feel like like a bad ass cold war warrior, lol.

[waiting4something]

I think another cool clone set-up would be the M16A2E2 ACR. I know the parts would be impossible to find, but it be something to have one. I want to say some guy did one once, but I have no idea where you get the parts for that. I wish the military would sell off all the stuff they aren't going to use instead of destroying it.:(

[HorseSoldier]

One that caught my attention was the AR57 reciever which takes an M16 or M4 and modifies it to use the P90's 5.7mm magazines.

Buddy of mine has one back in CONUS after he picked up a 5-7 pistol and decided he really like the round. He picked it up after I moved up here to AK, so I don't have any firsthand experience with it, but he says runs really well.

I think another cool clone set-up would be the M16A2E2 ACR. I know the parts would be impossible to find, but it be something to have one. I want to say some guy did one once, but I have no idea where you get the parts for that.

Seems like I've heard the same thing -- can't recall where, but may have been a thread on the Arfcom retro board.

[Brother in Arms]

I am building an XM177E2 or actually the GAU5 because mine has no forward assist. Its coming along nicely but the parts are hard to find if you want to stay as historically accurate as possible. Its really the only M16 variant I have much Joy for. Watched to many Vietnam movies when I was a kid I guess. It just seems to have so much soul at least as far as the AR is concerned anyway.

Brother in Arms

[waiting4something]

I am building an XM177E2 or actually the GAU5 because mine has no forward assist. Its coming along nicely but the parts are hard to find if you want to stay as historically accurate as possible. Its really the only M16 variant I have much Joy for. Watched to many Vietnam movies when I was a kid I guess. It just seems to have so much soul at least as far as the AR is concerned anyway.

Brother in Arms

That's badass! The big fat moderator flash suppressor just looks cool. Even without the moderator the commando length barrels just stand out more then carbine 14.5 inchers or 16 inch civilian ones. I kinda like the no forward assist style too. The forward assist is just a unnecessary feature, and I agree with the Air Force that its better to just eject the round if there is a misfeed. The only couple times I have tried using the forward assist feature it didn't do a damn bit of good. It's crazy how the CAR-15 was never that popular, but the M4 is.:confused:

[Brother in Arms]

The CAR-15 came along to soon!
Basickly the military didn't think it needed a short weapon but the cold war ushered in a new type of combat that was more vehicular than ever. The M16a2 and M16A2 proved to be too long and ackward for vehicle usage. (Personally I think a collaspsing stock on an M16A1 is the way to go but what do I know.)

The CAR-15 of course was extremely popular (basickly standard) with SF units in jungle fighting because they needed something lighter and smaller. But for the majority of the military this wasn't a priority yet. The SF community used them until the M4 was developed. It definitly is the Grandson of the Car-15 or more so the Carbine. The original XM177 and E1 had a 10.3" barrel and then the moderator. XM177E2 had had 11.5 the the Carbine was the first to have the 14.5 and it was very popular around the world as an export. It was used by our military as well before the M4 exsisted. But the M4 was always more of an M16A2 carbine than an M16A1 type.

I can do a thread about the carbines too if youd like.

BIA