Warhead data

[ArmySGT.]

I have a plan to add many other man portable anti armor weapon systems.

For the life of me I can't figure out what formula they came up with to figure armor penetration and e-factor.

The LAW and the RPG-7 seem equivalent until you get to damage. The stats for an RPG-7 are twice as effect as a LAW except both are class D anti-armor weapons.

Need more Soviet Bloc weapons to for survivors of air landed forces and troops from Cuba.

Anyway. Anyone know what the formula was for a rockets stats?

[nuke11]

I came up with a formula that works. I compared it to the one that Kevin developed and it is bang on.

Explosive DPW Formula
((Explosive weight in kg / 0.563) x 1300) x RE

RE (Relative Effectiveness) Values for Explosive Fillers

PETN: 1.25
RDX: 1.22
Nitroglycerin: 1.12
Composition B: 1.01
Composition A4: 1.01
Composition C4: 1.00
Torpex: 0.94
Tetryl: 0.94
Tetrytol 75/25: 0.90
Amatol 80/20: 0.88
Pentolite: 0.88
Tritonal: 0.83
TNT: 0.75
Explosive D: 0.74
Picric Acid: 0.70
M1 Dynamite: 0.69
Guncotton: 0.69
Dynamite (60%): 0.62
Nitrostarch: 0.60
Gelignite (60%): 0.57
Dynamite (40%): 0.49
Black Powder: 0.41
Mercury Fulminate: 0.38
Ammonium Nitrate: 0.31
Gelignite (40%): 0.31
Lead Azide: 0.29

To convert real world explosive RE values, times it by 0.75 to come up with
The Morrow Project ones.

[ArmySGT.]

From page 38 3d edition.

The only case in which the E-factor formula is not used is in the case of armor penetrating (shape charged) explosive warheads. In the case of these weapons the E-factor is found by determining how much armor the weapon penetrates. The Armor class of the weapons penetration is taken as that weapons E- factor.

Armor Class

Armor Material Cm of Cm of Cm of Cm of
Class Steel Wood Concrete Stone
A Skin - - - -
B Cloth (Heavy) - - - -
C Leather - - - -
1 13mm light - 2.54 .03 -
Plastic
2 13mm Heavy - 5.08 .5 -
Plastic

3 Chain Mail .25 7.62 .76 -
4 3mm Armor plate .34 10.16 1.06 7.62
5 .42 12.7 1.27 8.89
6 Nylon Body Armor .5 15.24 1.52 -
7 Resistweave Cloth .57 17.78 1.79 -
8 6mm Fiberglass .64 20.32 - -
Plate
9 6mm Aluminium .7 22.86 - -
Plate
10 .76 25.4 3.18 16.51
14 Kevlar Vest
15 1.02 34.29 7.62 22.86
16 19mm Lexan - - - -
18 Fiberglass / - - - -
Titanium Plate
19 13mm Aluminium - - - -
20 1.27 55.88 15.24 36.83
21 3mm Boron Carb- - - - -
ide Ceramic
25 1.52 55.88 15.24 36.83
30 1.79 66.04 19.05 43.18
35 3mm Boron/carbon 2.03 78.74 22.86 49.53
Filament plate
40 - 88.9 29.21 55.88
42 2.29 - - -
45 - 99.06 34.29 60.96
48 2.54 - - -
50 - 109.22 39.37 66.04
55 - 121.92 45.72 71.12
60 - 129.54 50.8 76.2
65 3.18 - - -
82 3.81 - - -
90 4.06 190.5 91.44 106.68
100 4.45 - - -
120 5.08 - - -
160 6.35 - - -
200 7.62 - - -
150 8.89 - - -
300 10.16 - - -
350 11.43 - - -
400 12.7 - - -


Damn table stops at 400

[ArmySGT.]

1445

Name M72A2 LAW
Cal. 66mm
E-Factor
Wt. (Empty) n/a
Min. Range 50m
Eff. Range 350m
Max. Range 1000m
Burst Radius 5m
Type of Fire Single shot disposable
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. n/a
Basic Load 1
Load Wt. 2.37 kg
Total Wt.
Additional Comments: A lightweight, disposable, rocket launcher firing a high explosive warhead. The warheads will penetrate 28 centimeters of steel. The “back blast” from the weapon prevents it from being fired from inside a room smaller than 5x5 meters.

Found in Load out: #1, 9,


1594

1595



RPD-7D Anti-Tank Launcher
E-Factor: 1030
Weight (Empty): 6.8kg
Minimum Range: 30m
Effective Range: 300m
Max. Range: 920m
Type of Fire: Single Shot
Burst Radius: 5m
Round Weight: 2.3kg
Anti-Armor Class: D
Basic Load: 2 rounds

Additional Comments: The RPD-7D is the standard anti-tank launcher of
the Warsaw Pact Forces, although it was beingsuperseded by newer designs like the RPD and RPG-18 by the time the War broke out. The basic design is quite simple and effective, though the round can be pushed off-target by strong crosswinds. This particular version can be disassembled into two parts to shorten the launch tube for the convenience of paratroops.

The RPG-7V is a recoilless, shoulder-fired, muzzle-loaded, reloadable, antitank grenade launcher. It fires a variety of rocket-assisted grenades
from a 40-mm smoothbore launcher tube. It is the standard squad antitank weapon in use by the OPFOR. The RPG-7V is light enough to be
carried and fired by one person. However, an assistant grenadier normally deploys to the left of the gunner to protect him from small arms fire.
The RPG-7V requires a well-trained gunner to estimate ranges and lead distances for moving targets. Crosswinds as low as 7 miles per hour can
complicate the gunner's estimate and reduce first-round hit probability to 50% at ranges beyond 180 meters.

1596

1597

1598

1599

[ArmySGT.]

Breaching Charges
Thickness of concrete C-4 Needed Wt # of 112 Blocks
.5m or less 3.5 kg 6
.6m 4.8kg 8 Kg of C4 / RE = Weight of explosive substitute
0.8m 9.2kg 17
0.9m 13.2kg 24
1.1m 21kg 38
1.2m 31.5kg 56
1.4m 44.7kg 80
1.5m 48.1kg 86

Relative Effectiveness
Explosive RE
PETN (primercord) 1.24
Nitroglycerine 1.12
C-4 or C-3 1
Picric Acid 0.7
Guncotton 0.69
Dynamite (60%) 0.62
Tetryl 0.93
Amatol 0.87
RDX 0.85
TNT 0.75
Nitostarch 0.6
Dynamite (40%) 0.49
Black Powder 0.41
Ammonium Nitrate 0.31

Explosive Damage Points
Explosive Dpw
M112 C-4 1300
M183 Demolition Charge 20,800
Mk3A2 Grenade 295
M26A1 Grenade 232
Primer cord 10 per M
Blasting Cap 1
M72A2 LAW 533
Armbrust 300 533
M381 HE 40MM 100
M433 HEDP 40mm 120
M25 AP Mine 20
M16A1 AP Mine 888
M56A1 HE 20mm 40
M374A2 HE 81mm 1,240
2.75 in Rocket 2,600
M47 Dragon 3,120
M151E2 TOW 3,120
Stinger 2,900
Chapparal 13,260
Maverick 76,700
M19 AT Mine 20,355
M18A1 Claymore 1,460

[ArmySGT.]

There's the two light Anti Armor weapons.

Thanks Nuke11 by the way.

As you can see the Writers worked up the E-factor for the RPG-7 for "Final Watch".

Anybody know by what formula as the normal one would not apply for a shape charged weapon.

Next any Idea how they came up with the DPW for the manufactured weapons like the LAW. Its not like the manufacturer was handing out the recipe.

Thanks in advance!

[robj3]

ArmySGT wrote:
Anybody know by what formula as the normal one would not apply for a shape charged weapon.

E-factor is derived from penetration of armor steel (cm).

There isn't a simple formula. The curve for steel using the table on p.38 is not continuous (plot it in Excel and see).

Only wood has a linear relation between thickness and armor value.

As an approximation for steel:
For each x10 in thickness, x20 armor value.
For each x2 in thickness, x2.5 armor value.

The M72 LAW has a penetration of 28cm or 11".

This gives you an E-factor of about 1100 (1185).

AV 48 = 2.54cm (1") steel.
11" is 11x thicker or ~3.5 doublings.

Final AV = 48 * (2.5^3.5) or about 1185.

Next any Idea how they came up with the DPW for the manufactured weapons like the LAW.

Estimate mass and composition of explosive filler and use the equation Gary posted earlier.

A small simplification:
DPW = 2309 x RE x explosive mass, kg

(1300/0.563 = 2309)

For DPW 533, I get about 270g of RDX (using 0.85 value in TM1-1) which fits
pretty well with the M72 rocket.

[ArmySGT.]

Thanks Robj3

Getting somewhere now.

[ArmySGT.]

As an approximation for steel:
For each x10 in thickness, x20 armor value.
For each x2 in thickness, x2.5 armor value.

The M72 LAW has a penetration of 28cm or 11".

This gives you an E-factor of about 1100 (1185).

AV 48 = 2.54cm (1") steel.
11" is 11x thicker or ~3.5 doublings.

Final AV = 48 * (2.5^3.5) or about 1185.




It is been so long since I have done algebra I can't even make use of this formula.

This character ^ is stumping me. Google gave me some possibles but come nowhere near the answer of 1185.

[ArmySGT.]

Wait! Got it.

2.5 to the power of 3.5

Thanks!

Glad I still have a scientific calculator!

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/D-44ATGun.jpg
Name: SD-44 Towed AT Gun Airborne Variant with Aux Propulsion unit.
Cal. 85mm
E-Factor : See by type below.
Wt. (Empty) 3.1 Metric Tons
Min. Range 50m
Eff. Range 1500m
Max. Range
Burst Radius by type
Type of Fire
Rate of Fire 8 RPM with a trained crew / 15 rpm burst for indirect fire.
Feed Device Manual
Feed Device Wt. n/a
Basic Load 21 mixed type
Load Wt. by type
Total Wt.
Additional Comments: Description The 85 mm auxiliary-propelled field gun SD-44 was designed by the F F Petrov design bureau. It is basically the 85 mm Divisional Gun D-44 fitted with an auxiliary propulsion unit: an M-72 two-cylinder petrol engine which develops 14 hp and gives a maximum road speed of 25 km/h. Fuel is carried in one of the trails. The engine is mounted on the left trail and ready use ammunition is carried in the right one. The engine provides power to the two rubber-tyred carriage wheels via a drive shaft and a differential. The conventional steering wheel and steering column are attached to a castor just behind the spades. The lunette is retained enabling the weapon to be towed if required, maximum towing speed is 60 km/h. A two-part folded rammer is mounted vertically on either side of the front of the shield. An infra-red night vision device can be fitted if required. The SD-44 has sometimes been incorrectly called the D-48.

Caliber: 85mm
Name HVAP-T (Hyper Velocity Armor Piercing Tracer)
Soviet Designation: BR-365P/365PK
Maximum range: 1500m
Maximum effective range:
Day: 1150m
Night: Information not available. (INA)
Armor Penetration (mm):
180mm (RHA) at 1,000 meters E-Factor =
113mm (RHA, 30°) at 500 meters E-Factor =

Caliber: 85-mm
Name HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti-Tank - Fin Stabilized)
Soviet Designation BK-2M
Maximum Range (m): 1500
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 1500m
Night: INA
Armor Penetration (mm): 300 E-Factor=

Caliber: 85-mm
Name: AP HE (Armor Piercing High Explosive)
Maximum Range (m): 1500
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 950
Night: INA
Armor Penetration (mm): 91 (30° angle ) at 500 meters E-Factor=

Caliber:85-mm
Name: Frag-HE (Fragmentation High Explosive)
Soviet Designation: O-365K
Maximum Aimed Range (m): 1,500
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 1,500
Night: INA
Armor Penetration (mm): INA

[ArmySGT.]

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HVAP-T is 180mm.

180 divided by 25.4 = 7.086614473

Rounded to 7.087 inches of RHA

7.087 divided by 2.54 = 2.79000558

Rounded to 2.80 doublings from 2.54

AV 48 * (2.54^2.80) = 652.7932332

Rounded to 653.

Efactor for HVAP-T is 653.

Somebody please fact check that as I am unsure. Thanks!

[ArmySGT.]

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HEAT-FS is 300mm.

300 divided by 25.4 = 11.81102362

Rounded to 11.811 inches of RHA

11.811 divided by 2.54 = 4.6500093

Rounded to 4.65 doublings from 2.54

AV 48 * (2.54^4.65) = 3661.997299

Rounded to 3662

Efactor for HEAT-FS is 3662.


Nope. Can't be right. I am screwing up the math in figuring how many times a penentration has doubled from the original 2.54 cm.

[ArmySGT.]

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HEAT-FS is 300mm.

300 divided by 25.4 = 11.81102362

Rounded to 11.811 inches of RHA

11.811 divided by 2.54 = 4.6500093

Rounded to 4.65 doublings from 2.54

AV 48 * (2.54^4.65) = 3661.997299

Rounded to 3662

Efactor for HEAT-FS is 3662.


Nope. Can't be right. I am screwing up the math in figuring how many times a penentration has doubled from the original 2.54 cm.

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HEAT-FS is 300mm.

300 divided by 10 = 30 centimeters (not inches!)

30 cm divided by 2.54= 11.811023622047244 inches. (Almost a foot!)


Now where I run into a problem. What was doubled and doubled again to reach 11.811023622047244?

Time to stop.

[ArmySGT.]

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HVAP-T is 180mm.

180 divided by 25.4 = 7.086614473

Rounded to 7.087 inches of RHA

7.087 divided by 2.54 = 2.79000558

Rounded to 2.80 doublings from 2.54

AV 48 * (2.54^2.80) = 652.7932332

Rounded to 653.

Efactor for HVAP-T is 653.

Somebody please fact check that as I am unsure. Thanks!

180mm = 18 cm

2.54 ^ 3.1 = 17.9886804 cm

17.9886804 x 48 = 863.4272657

E-factor = 864

Better?

[ArmySGT.]

Armor value 48 = 2.54cm of Rolled Homogenous Steel. (RHA)

2.54cm = 25.4mm

Penetration for 85mm HEAT-FS is 300mm.

300 divided by 25.4 = 11.81102362

Rounded to 11.811 inches of RHA

11.811 divided by 2.54 = 4.6500093

Rounded to 4.65 doublings from 2.54

AV 48 * (2.54^4.65) = 3661.997299

Rounded to 3662

Efactor for HEAT-FS is 3662.


Nope. Can't be right. I am screwing up the math in figuring how many times a penentration has doubled from the original 2.54 cm.

300mm = 30 cm

2.54 ^ 3.64 = 29.75738257

29.75738257 = 1428.354364

E-factor = 1428

Better?

[robj3]

85mm HVAP-T
Armor Penetration (mm):
180mm (RHA) at 1,000 meters E-Factor =
113mm (RHA, 30°) at 500 meters E-Factor =

AV 48 = 25.4mm RHA.
For each x2 in armor thickness, x2.5 AV

180mm = 2.82 doublings. E-factor = 48 * (2.5^2.82) = 636
113mm = 2.15 doublings. E-factor = 48 * (2.5^2.15) = 344

HEAT-FS
300mm = 3.56 doublings. E-factor = 48 * (2.5^3.56) = 1253

AP-HE
90mm = 1.82 doublings. E-factor = 48 * (2.5^1.82) = 254


Another way of looking at:
"For each x2 in armor thickness, x2.5 AV"

is

Armor thickness varies with 2^(a)

Final armor value = 48*(2.5^(a))

So 180/25.4 is about 7.09, which is 2^(2.82).

Using the scientific calculator in Windows:
- Take the log of 7.09 (~0.851)
- Store in memory
- Take the log of 2 (~0.301)
- divide by what's in memory
- take the reciprocal (1/x) (~2.82)
- use this answer to find AV/E-factor (48*[2.5^2.82])

It's roundabout but accurate...

Rob

[ArmySGT.]

Thank you for your reply Rob3j!

Hopelessly over my head here though. It has been too long since I have had to do something like this.

Thank you again!

[robj3]

Sorry, I wasn't sure how active the forum is.
Should have checked back in sooner.
Consolidating the previous math:

E-factor/AV = 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(mm RHA) - 1.4049)]

3.322 ~= 1/log(2)
1.4049 ~= log(25.4)

Checking , the formula returns slightly different values thanks to rounding:
300mm = 1255
90mm = 255
113mm = 345
180mm = 639

sub 1% differences are OK, I think.


Rob

[ArmySGT.]

E-factor/AV = 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(mm RHA) - 1.4049)]

Rob

Thanks Rob!

I am going to go forward using this formula to make stats for some Soviet, Canadian, and Mexican systems as well as some updates for US and project equipment.

This is a huge help! Thanks again.

Stay tuned folks. :)

[ArmySGT.]

Armbrust.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/armbrust3.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/armbrust1.jpg
SYSTEM
Alternative Designations: Crossbow
Date of Introduction: INA
Proliferation: At least seven countries
Description:
Crew: 1
Caliber (mm): 67
Weight (kg): 6.3
Length (mm): 850
Rifling: None
Breech Mechanism Type: N/A
Rate of Fire (rd/min): N/A (disposable)
Fire From Inside Building: Yes (see NOTES)
SIGHTS
Name: N/A
Type: Reflex
Magnification: None
Location: Left side
Sighting Range (m): INA
Night Sights Available: INA
VARIANTS (INA)
AMMUNITION
Name: INA
Type: HEAT
Range (m):
Maximum: 1,500
Effective AT: 300
Flight Time (sec) @ 300 m: 1.5
Penetration:
Armor (mm): 300
Reinforced Concrete (m): INA
Muzzle Velocity(m/s): 210

E-factor 1255

Projectile mass: 1.0 kg
Filler: RDX, 0.16 kg
Using weapon(s): ARMBRUST antitank weapon
Remarks: None


Name Armbrust (updated)
Cal. 67mm
E-Factor = 1255 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(300) - 1.4049)] = 1255.079738
DPW = 451 ((0.16 / 0.563) x 1300) x 1.22 = 450.7282416
Wt. (Empty) 6.3 kg
Min. Range 50m
Eff. Range 350m
Max. Range 1500m
Burst Radius 5m
Type of Fire Single shot disposable
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. n/a
Basic Load 2
Load Wt. 12.6 kg
Total Wt.
Additional Comments: A disposable, flashless, noiseless, recoilless gun firing a high explosive shell. The shell will penetrat 30 centimeters (300mm) or steel. The "backblast" from the weapon is made up of plastic flakes and is so short the firer can stand with a wall only 1 meter behind him.

Found in Load out: #17

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/D-30Soviet122-mmHowitzer.gif

Name:Russian 122-mm Towed Howitzer D-30A
Cal. 122mm
E-Factor : See by type below.
Wt. (Empty) 3.2 Metric Tons
Min. Range Varies by ammunition type
Eff. Range Varies by ammunition type
Max. Range Varies by ammunition type
Burst Radius by type Varies by ammunition type
Type of Fire
Rate of Fire 8 rpm burst / 6 rpm normal / 4 rpm sustained
Feed Device Manual
Feed Device Wt. n/a
Basic Load 21 mixed type
Load Wt. by type
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:The D-30A is a midlife product improvement of the D-30. The original D-30 was fielded in 1963 and the midlife product improvements occurred in the mid to late 1970’s. The original D-30 is in use with at least 50 different countries.

The D-30, also known as the M1963, replaced the older 122-mm howitzer M-30 (M1938). The original D-30 was fielded in 1963 and the midlife product improvements occurred in the mid to late 1970�s. The original D-30 is in use with at least 50 different countries. The 2A18M D-30A and D-30M are midlife product improvements of the D-30 that are currently in production by the Gosudarstvennoe Unitarnoe Predpriatie Zavod 9 [Vysokodispersnye Metallicheskiye Poroshki AO]. The D-30 features a unique three-trail carriage, a conspicuous boxy shield for the recuperator above the tube, and a small protective shield between the wheels. The gun has a semiautomatic, vertically sliding, wedge-type breechblock. It is towed muzzle-first by a truck or armored tractor, at speeds up to 80 kilometers per hour, with its trails folded under the barrel.

The D-30 can be recognized by its unique three-trail carriage, the conspicuous box-like shield for the recoil-recuperator mechanism mounted above the tube, the multi-baffle muzzle brake, and the small protective shield fitted between the wheels. Early models of the D-30 had a multi-baffle muzzle brake while the D-30M has a double-baffle muzzle brake. The gun has a semiautomatic, vertically-sliding, wedge-type breechblock. It can be towed by a truck (Ural-375 or ZIL-131) or armored tractor at speeds up to 80 krn/hr. It is towed muzzle-first by a large lunette just under the muzzle brake with its trails folded under the barrel.

The D-30 is found in the howitzer battalion of BTR-equipped motorized rifle regiments and in the artillery regiment of motorized rifle, tank, and airborne divisions. A battalion of D-30s is also being added to some tank regiments as an interim measure. These D-30s will eventually be replaced by a battalion of 122-mm self-propelled howitzers 2S1. The maximum effective range of either howitzer is 15,300 meters.

In firing position, the crew of eight unhitches the gun, lowers the central firing jack, raising the wheels high enough to clear the trail legs, and spreads the two outer trails 120� on each side. The revolving mount permits 360� traverse and is equipped for high and low angles of fire, making it fully suitable for antitank defense. It is doubtful that full elevation is possible when the breech is immediately over a trail leg. The D-30 can also be equipped with a IR or passive night vision sights for direct fire.

The D-30 fires FRAG-HE and HEAT-FS variable-charge, case-type, separate-loading ammunition. The D-30 has a special nonrotating, fin-stabilized, HEAT projectile which allows it to effectively engage armored vehicles with direct fire. The HEAT round can penetrate up to 460 mm of armor at any range. Other types of projectiles include chemical, illuminating (S-462 weighing 22.4 kg), smoke (D-462 weighing 22.3 kg), leaflet, flechette, and incendiary. Recently an RAP has been introduced with a maximum range of 21900 m.

There are at least two chemical projectiles for the D-30, with the CW agent is dispersed by the explosion of a TNT bursting charge. The Sarin projectile weighs 22.2 kg with 1.3 kg of Sarin agent. The 122 mm Lewisite projectile weighs 23.1 kg with 3.3 kg of viscous Lewisite agent.


SYSTEM
Alternative Designations: 122-mm D-30A Lyagushka
Date of Introduction: 1963
Proliferation: At least 13 countries
Description:
Crew: 5 (section of 6)
Carriage: D-30
Combat Weight (mt): 3.2
Chassis Length Overall (m):
Travel Position: 5.4
Firing Position: INA
Height Overall (m): 1.6
Width Overall (m):
Travel Position: 1.9
Firing Position: INA
Towing Speed (km/h):
Max Road: 60
Max Off-Road: 25
Max Cross-Country:
Fording Depths (m): .5
Emplacement Time (min): 1.5
Displacement Time (min): 3.5
Prime Mover: MT-LB; Ural-375, or equivalent

ARMAMENT
Main Armament:
Caliber, Type, Name: 122-mm, 2A18M canon
Barrel Length (cal): 38 (approximately)
Rate of Fire (rpm):
Burst: 8
Normal: 6
Sustained: 4
Loader Type: Semi-automatic
Breech Type: Vertical sliding wedge
Muzzle Brake Type: Multi-baffle
Traverse: (°):
Left: 360
Right: 360
Total: 360
Elevation (°) (-/+): -7/+70°
FIRE CONTROL
Indirect Fire: PG-1M Panoramic Telescope (PANTEL)
Direct Fire: OP 4M-45
Collimator: K-1
Gun Display Unit: None
Fire Control Computer: None
VARIANTS
Saddam: Iraqi produced version of the D-30
D30J: Yugoslavian produced version of the D-30
SP 122: Egyptian self-propelled howitzer (M109A2 chassis and
turret with an Egyptian made D-30 howitzer).
Type 85: Chinese self-propelled howitzer (Chinese Type 85 APC
chassis and a licensed produced version of the D-30 in a semi-open
superstructure.)

MAIN ARMAMENT AMMUNITION
Caliber, Type, Name:

122-mm Frag-HE, OF-81
Indirect Fire Range (m):
Minimum Range: 1000
Maximum Range: 15,300
Complete Projectile Weight (kg): 21.76 (OF-56)
Filler: TNT and amatol 3.46 kg
DPW = 7031 ((3.46 / 0.563) x 1300) x 0.88 = 7030.62167
Muzzle Velocity: 680 m/s
Fuze Type: RGM-2 PD

122-mm, HEAT-FS
Direct Fire Range (m):
Minimum Range: 0
Maximum Range: 1000
Armor Penetration (mm): 460 (@ 0° obliquity any range)
E-factor = 2208. 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(460) - 1.4049)]= 2208.385244
DPW=
Complete Projectile Weight (kg): 21.58

Muzzle Velocity: 740 m/s
Fuze Type: GPV-2 PIBD

122-mm Frag-HE Rocket Assisted
Indirect Fire Range (m):
Minimum Range: INA
Maximum Range: 21,900
Complete Projectile Weight (kg): 21.76 (3OF-56)
Filler: RDX/A1 4.31 kg
DPW= 12141.5 ((4.31 / 0.563) x 1300) x 1.22 = 12141.49201
Muzzle Velocity: INA
Fuze Type: PD

Other Ammunition Types: Incendiary, Chemical, Flechette,
Semi-active laser-guided Kitolov-2M Frag-HE

[ArmySGT.]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/AT-3_Sagger_missile_control_box.JPG/220px-AT-3_Sagger_missile_control_box.JPG

http://firm-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Sagger.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7057/96716243zj4.jpg

http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/missile_vehicle/at-3_sagger/pictures/AT-3_sagger_9K11_Malyutka_anti-tank_missile_Russia_Russian_army_Defence_industry_ 003.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/AT-3Sagger.jpg
Name AT-3 Malyutka (SAGGER)
Cal.
E-Factor = A model 1835 / C model 2597 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(400 or 520) - 1.4049)]= 2208.385244
Wt. (10.9 / 11.4 kg) missile, 30.5 kg launcher + guidance
Eff. Range 500/500
Max. Range 3000/3000
Type of Fire
Rate of Fire 1
Feed Device 1 per man pack case (two per AT team). BMD-1, 1 on rail + 3 stowed
In each three-man team, the gunner carries a suitcase containing the control box, and two assistant gunners each carry one missile in a suitcase.
Feed Device Wt.
Basic Load - 1 guidance (gunner) + 2 launcher/missile case (assistants)
Total Wt.30.5 kg launcher + guidance
Additional Comments : AT-3 is classed by weight as portable (21-40 kg), rather than manportable (<21 kg). The launcher is also a missile carry case. The guidance panel can be located up to 15 meters from the launcher, and can control up to four launchers. If target is <1,000 meters from launcher, the operator can joystick the missile to target without using optics. Guidance elevation (°) is -5/ +10. Because the module is small and can be shifted,
elevation and field of view are operationally unlimited. Improved versions can be used on older launchers, but in the MCLOS mode.
The Slovenian Iskra TS-M thermal sight is available, with detection at 3,000 meters and recognition at 1,800 meters.
Any AT-3 can be modernized to Malyutka-2 with replacement of warhead and or replacement of specific warhead and motor components.

[ArmySGT.]

This is too timely (and on point) not to share.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/1609831_10152352110733606_5167081091748845763_n.jp g

[welsh]

recoilless rifle? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_recoilless_rifle

Here is some info. Seems practical.

[ArmySGT.]

http://www.warwheels.net/images/m825muttDRAWhaugh1.jpg

http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m151a1c_700_01.jpg


SYSTEM
Alternative Designations: BAT (Battalion Antitank), and VARIANTS
Date of Introduction: 1953
Proliferation: At least 50 countries
Description:
Crew: 4 vehicle with dismount, 2 vehicle mount, 8 dismounted infantry
Caliber (mm): 106
Weight (kg): 130, 113 without the spotting rifle
Length (m): 3.4, with a 2.85 m barrel
Width (on M79 mount) (m): .8, 1.524 with the legs spread
Height (on M79 mount) (m): 1.3

ARMAMENT
Main Armament: 106-mm Recoilless rifle.
Bore: Rifled 36 grooves, rh. The actual bore size is 105 mm; but is referred to as 106 mm to avoid confusion with the failed 105-mm M27 gun system.
Breech Type: Interrupted thread , hand-operated
Recoil System: Vented breech
Feed: Manual
Traverse (°): 360
Elevation (°) (M79 Mount): -17/+65
Rate of Fire (rd/min): 5
Emplacement/displacement time (min): INA
Fire From Inside Building: No
Complete Round Weight (kg): 13
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 570
Spotting Rifle: .50 cal M-8C, magazine-fed. It uses a .50 cal semi-auto spotting rifle mounted along the axis of the barrel to determine proper elevation for the 106-mm rifle. The round matched to M40 round flight ballistics, and holds a 20-round magazine.

SIGHTS
Name: Bofors Modernization Package
Daysight:
Name: Simrad LP101 laser day sight (in place of the ranging gun)
Others available: Computerized LASer Sight (CLASS)
Upgraded systems may have the Simrad laser sight in lieu of the ranging (spotting) gun.
Night Sights:
Name: NVL-11 Mk IV II sight with computer LRF
Range: 990 m.
Others available: Simrad KN250 II sight, other II and thermal sights

VARIANTS
M40A1: Initial fielded version of the rifle which was commonly exported, with the M-8C spotting rifle.
M40A2: Upgrade with an M79 mount.
M40A4: The latest fielded version, with the M27 tripod.
Other countries have produced the rifle, under license, and mounted it on various chassis.
Bofors Retrofit Program: Upgrade program, with the Simrad sights and the 3A-HEAT-T round.
The weapon can be porteed, carried on a vehicle pintel mount, then transferred to a ground semi-mobile tripod mount.
M79 Mount: Tripod, ground, or vehicle
M50 Ontos: Six-barrel mount on small tracked vehicle
PAK-66: Austrian M40 on two-wheel carriage

AMMUNITION
Name: M344A1
Type: HEAT
Range (m):
Maximum Effective: 1,350
Maximum Range: 2,745
Armor Penetration (mm CE): INA
E-factor = 1255 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(300) - 1.4049)]= 1255.079738
DPW= 2332.149201
It uses 2.79lbs or 1 Kg of Comp B.
Complete Round Weight (kg): 16.8
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 503

Name: 3A-HEAT-T (Bofors upgrade)
Type: HEAT-Tracer
Maximum Effective Range (m): 2,000
Armor Penetration (mm CE): 700 +
E-factor = 3847 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(700) - 1.4049)]= 3846.98682
Complete Round Weight (kg): 14.5
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 570

Name: M346A1
Type: HEP-T (HE plastic-tracer)
Filler:7.72 lb (3.501733 KG) Comp A3
DPW= 8085.70675
Maximum Range (m): 6,870
Complete Round Weight (kg): 16.95
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 498

Name: M581
Type: APERS-T (antipersonnel-tracer) (flechette)
Fill (.5 g ea): 10,000 flechettes
Maximum Effective Range (m): 300
Complete Round Weight (kg): 18.73
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 438

Name: HEAP M-DN
Type: HE antipersonnel (steel pellets)
Fill: 1,000 steel pellets
Maximum Effective Range (m): 1,500
Lethal Radius: 40
Complete Round Weight (kg): 16.4
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 560

NOTES
The producer of the LAHAT gun-launch ATGM (pg 6-58) offers to produce a version for use in the M40 launcher. The tandem ATGM is a viable threat to all modern armored vehicles. Use requires a tripod-mounted laser guidance unit, as used with MT-12 and 2A45M AT guns.
The rifle produces a massive amount of noise and smoke which reveals its location. Thus a first round hit is critical.

[nuke11]

Here is an updated chart.

Explosive Relative Effectiveness Chart 1.0

Common Name(s) RE
Dynamite (40% Ammonia) 0.31
Ammonium Nitrate (AN + <0.5% H2O) 0.32
Dynamite (40% Gelatin) 0.32
Black Powder (75% KNO3 + 19% C + 6% S) 0.38
Dynamite (60% Ammonia) 0.40
Hexamine Dinitrate (HDN) 0.45
Dinitrobenzene (DNB) 0.45
Dynamite (40% Nitroglycerin) 0.49
HMTD (Hexamine Peroxide) 0.56
ANFO (94% AN + 6% Fuel Oil) 0.56
Dynamite (60% Gelatin) 0.57
TATP (Acetone Peroxide) 0.60
Tovex Extra (AN Water Gel) Commercial Product 0.60
Hydromite 600 (AN Water Emulsion) Commercial Product 0.60
Dynamite (60% Nitroglycerin) 0.62
ANNMAL (67% AN + 25% NM + 5% Al + 3% C) 0.65
Amatol (50% TNT + 50% AN) 0.68
Nitroguanidine 0.75
Trinitrotoluene (TNT) 0.75
Hexanitrostilbene (HNS or JD-X) 0.79
Nitrourea (N-nitrourea, 1-nitrourea or N-nitrocarbamide) 0.79
Amatol (80% TNT + 20% AN) 0.83
Nitrocellulose (13.5% N, NC) 0.83
Nitromethane (NM) 0.83
Diethylene Glycol Dinitrate (DEGDN) 0.88
Tritonal (80% TNT + 20% Aluminum Powder) 0.88
Triaminotrinitrobenzene (TATB) 0.88
Picric Acid (TNP) 0.90
Trinitrobenzene (TNB) 0.90
Tetrytol (70% Tetryl + 30% TNT) 0.90
Dynamite (75% NG + 23% Diatomite) 0.94
Tetryl (2,4,6-Trinitrophenylmethylnitramine) 0.94
Composition C3 (87% RDX) 1.00
Composition C4 (91% RDX) 1.00
Composition A3 (91% RDX) 1.00
Pentolite (56% PETN + 44% TNT) 1.00
Semtex 1A (76% PETN + 6% RDX) 1.01
Composition B (60% RDX + 40% TNT) 1.01
Composition A4 (97% RDX) 1.01
Composition H6 (45% RDX + 30% TNT + 20% Powdered Aluminum) 1.01
Cyclotol (70% RDX + 30% TNT) 1.01
Hydrazine Mononitrate 1.07
RISAL P (51% IPN + 28% RDX + 14% Al + 4% Mg + 0.7% Zr + 2% NC) 1.13
Nitroglycerin (NG) 1.16
Octol (80% HMX + 19% TNT + 1% DNT) 1.16
Gelatine (92% NG + 7% Nitrocellulose) 1.20
Erythritol tetranitrate (ETN) 1.20
NTO (Nitrotriazolon) 1.20
Hexogen (RDX) 1.20
Penthrite (PETN) 1.25
Ethylene glycol dinitrate (EGDN) 1.25
TNAZ (Trinitroazetidine) 1.28
HMX Grade A (Octogen) 1.28
HMX Grade B (Octogen) 1.28
HNIW (CL-20) 1.35
Hexanitrobenzene (HNB) 1.35
MEDINA (Methylene dinitroamine) 1.45
DDF (4,4'-Dinitro-3,3'-diazenofuroxan) 1.46
Octanitrocubane (ONC) 1.79

[nuke11]

Sorry, I wasn't sure how active the forum is.
Should have checked back in sooner.
Consolidating the previous math:

E-factor/AV = 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(mm RHA) - 1.4049)]

3.322 ~= 1/log(2)
1.4049 ~= log(25.4)

Checking , the formula returns slightly different values thanks to rounding:
300mm = 1255
90mm = 255
113mm = 345
180mm = 639

sub 1% differences are OK, I think.


Rob

Has anyone converted this formula to an Excel formula yet?

[ArmySGT.]

Has anyone converted this formula to an Excel formula yet?

I have not. I am not sure of how to insert a logarithm into the equation.

[kato13]

I have not. I am not sure of how to insert a logarithm into the equation.

For log 10 isn't it just LOG(A1). I just saved a version as excel97 with that formula so I think that has been supported for a while.

[kato13]

I made an excel 2010 file with a selection list and RE lookup for DPW. I think it needed to be 2007 or above (xlsx) in order to do the lookup.

I also did a E-Factor formula if you enter the mm or penetration
= 48 * 2.5^(3.322*(LOG(B13) - 1.4049))

You can use this if you have a prior version of excel where B13 is the pen value in mm.

I have never really used these formulas (my gaming system uses Guns, Guns, Guns), so if there are errors let me know.

For the excel file enter/select the data in the yellow fields and the results are in the green fields.

[nuke11]

I made an excel 2010 file with a selection list and RE lookup for DPW. I think it needed to be 2007 or above (xlsx) in order to do the lookup.

I also did a E-Factor formula if you enter the mm or penetration
= 48 * 2.5^(3.322*(LOG(B13) - 1.4049))

You can use this if you have a prior version of excel where B13 is the pen value in mm.

I have never really used these formulas (my gaming system uses Guns, Guns, Guns), so if there are errors let me know.

For the excel file enter/select the data in the yellow fields and the results are in the green fields.

When I click on the attachment is downloads attachment.php, but if I rename it to "morrow_ex.xlsx" it works fine.

I'll go thru the formula to see how it stands up.

Thank you.

[kato13]

When I click on the attachment is downloads attachment.php, but if I rename it to "morrow_ex.xlsx" it works fine.


What browser?


I'll go thru the formula to see how it stands up.

Thank you.

No problem. I am addicted to excel ;)

[nuke11]

What browser?

No problem. I am addicted to excel ;)

IE 11.

It is most likely something stupid with IE11 security settings.

I see where I was wrong with my formula in my spreadsheet of formulas.

[ArmySGT.]

Nice!

Thanks guys!

That will speed up dropping some new systems to equip Morrow Project encounter groups.

or if there is an Invasion USA! Gamer out there.

[nuke11]

Instead of posting a new chart I'll just post the new ones instead;

Name, Key Ingredients, Replaces, RE

IMX-101, DNAN + NTO + NQ, TNT, 0.75
IMX-104, DNAN + NTO + RDX, Comp B. 1.00
PAX-48, DNAN + NTO + HMX, Comp B, 1.00
PAX-21 DNAN + RDX + AP + MNA, Comp B, 1.00
PAX-41 DNAN + RDX + MNA, Comp B, 1.00

** Key ingredients is not really necessary, but interesting to show **

Terms Used;

IMX: Insensitive Munitions eXplosives
PAX: Picatinny Arsenal Explosive
DNAN: Dinitroanisole
NTO: Nitrotriazolone
NQ: Nitroguanidine
RDX: Research Development eXplosive
MNA: n-methyl-p-nitroaniline
AP: Ammonium Perchlorate

[nuke11]

M344A1 HEAT

It uses 2.79lbs or 1 Kg of Comp B.

It will penetrate 300 mm RHA at zero degrees.

[ArmySGT.]

M344A1 HEAT

It uses 2.79lbs or 1 Kg of Comp B.

It will penetrate 300 mm RHA at zero degrees.

Updated!

[nuke11]

The Bofors 3A-HEAT-T uses 1 Kg of Octol, so it will have a DPW of 2678.

The M344A1 should be 1.27 Kg of Comp B, not 1.0 Kg as I stated. So it's DPW will be 2962.

[ArmySGT.]

The Bofors 3A-HEAT-T uses 1 Kg of Octol, so it will have a DPW of 2678.

The M344A1 should be 1.27 Kg of Comp B, not 1.0 Kg as I stated. So it's DPW will be 2962.

If you don't already have one........ get an account for scribd.com.

Many military manuals end up there, I have the ammunition data sheets for reference. Some posted the 2011 World Wide Recognition guide from the DoD there too.

[Capt Gideon]

I did this a while back, but I worked out based on what various levels are suppose to stop and what E-Factor those weapon had and worked out the following chart.

ARMOR LEVEL PROTECTION

Level I Armor Class: 8
Level IIA Armor Class: 10
Level II Armor Class: 12
Level IIIA Armor Class: 14
Level III Armor Class: 18
Level IV Armor Class: 21


PASGT Helmet
Armor Class: 14
Weight: 1.65 kg
Covers 40% Front and 90% sides and back

PASGT Improved Outer Tactical Vest
Armor Class: 14
Covers: Torso, Shoulders, Upper Arms, Neck and Groin
Armor Class: 21 (4 Critical Plate, front, back and sides of torso, 70% coverage)
Complete Weight: 13.6 kg

PASGT MBAV (Modular Body Armor Vest)
Armor Class: 21
Complete Weight: 7.3 kg
Covers: Torso (4 ridged plates, front, back and sides) 70%

Batlskin Viper P2 Helmet
Armor Class: 14 (Level IIIA)
Weight: 1.15 kg
Covers: 40% Front, 80% sides and rear
Accessories: Viper Front Mount, Viper Three Position Visor (AR: 8)(0.275 kg) and Viper Mandible Guard Kit (AR: 10)(0.385 kg), designed for Comms Headset to be worn under helmet.

[nuke11]

I did this a while back, but I worked out based on what various levels are suppose to stop and what E-Factor those weapon had and worked out the following chart.

ARMOR LEVEL PROTECTION

Level I Armor Class: 8
Level IIA Armor Class: 10
Level II Armor Class: 12
Level IIIA Armor Class: 14
Level III Armor Class: 18
Level IV Armor Class: 21



I worked this chart up awhile ago, and I like your chart as well. What do you think the AC is NIJ III+?

http://www.thesupplybunker.net/pdf/4th_ballistic_armor_ratings_v1.1.pdf

I'm working on an update for this chart as well. Transparent Armor (or Bullet Resistant Glass), is a little harder to find specs on it, but I'm making headway on this front.

[Capt Gideon]

I have the the Ballistic Resistance of Body Armor NIJ Standard - 0101.06 and I couldn't find a listing for Level III+. Technically there isn't even a Level V, but because of the protection provided of the highest level of Dragon Skin Body Armor the term Level V is applied and the specifications are classified by both DOJ, DOS and DOD. I just kind of guesttimated and could be as much as 4 to 6 points higher.

PS> Level III+ may refer to Level III with Stab Protection, So its Level III Ballistic Plus whatever rating of stab protection, normally Level I.

[nuke11]

I have the the Ballistic Resistance of Body Armor NIJ Standard - 0101.06 and I couldn't find a listing for Level III+. Technically there isn't even a Level V, but because of the protection provided of the highest level of Dragon Skin Body Armor the term Level V is applied and the specifications are classified by both DOJ, DOS and DOD. I just kind of guesttimated and could be as much as 4 to 6 points higher.

PS> Level III+ may refer to Level III with Stab Protection, So its Level III Ballistic Plus whatever rating of stab protection, normally Level I.

I've looked around for it as well. I see it referenced by a few manufactures, but don't see it in the NIJ standards either. I think it is NIJ III + AK47 resistant, but not completely sure.

I thought Dragon Skin was no longer made? And NIJ had withheld there certification of it as well.

[Capt Gideon]

Pinnacle Armor, the maker of Dragon Skin body armor, is still around as far as I have been able to find they are still making the armor along with other products. As of 2007 the Level III armor had NIJ certification of the 6 year operational life and the SOV-4000 (Level V) is made but is restricted to sale to government agencies only. SOV-2000 (Level III) and the SOV-3000 (Level IV).

[ArmySGT.]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/AT4_rocket_launcher.jpg

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/antiarmor/AT4/AT4_2.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/AT4_image.jpg/300px-AT4_image.jpg

SYSTEM
Alternative Designations: US M136, Bofors AT 4, FFV AT4
Date of Introduction: INA
Proliferation: At least seven countries
Description:
Crew: 1
Caliber (mm): 84
Weight (kg): 6
Length (mm):
Firing Position: 1,000
Travel Position: 1,000
Rate of Fire (rd/min): N/A (disposable)
Fire From Inside Building: See AT4 CS

SIGHTS
Name: INA
Type: Popup, preset to 200 m
Location: Top left
Night Sights Available: Yes, INA

VARIANTS (see NOTES)
LMAW: Light Multipurpose Assault Weapon, uses HEDP
AT4 CS: Confined space
AT4 HP: High penetration

AMMUNITION
Name: AT4 HEAT
Caliber (mm): 84
Type: HEAT
Range (m):
Effective: 300
Arming Range: INA
Penetration:
Armor (mm CE): 420 (E-factor 1958)
Weight (kg): 6.7
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 285
Name: LMAW (see VARIANTS)
Caliber (mm): 84

Type: HEDP, modified Carl Gustaf HEPD FFV 502 (with dual mode fuze)
Range (m):
Effective: 300
Arming Range: INA
Penetration:
Armor (mm CE): 150 (E-factor 502)
Concrete (m): INA
Casualty Radius (m): INA
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 235

Name: AT4 CS (confined space) can fire from confined spaces as small as 22.5 m3
Caliber (mm): 84
Type: HEAT or HEDP (LMAW) warheads
Range (m):
Effective: INA
Arming Range: INA
Penetration:
Armor (mm CE): 500 (E-factor 2466)
Weight (kg): INA
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): INA

Name: AT4 HP (high penetration)
Caliber (mm): 84
Type: HEAT
Range (m):
Effective: INA
Arming Range: INA
Penetration:
Armor (mm CE): 600 (E-factor 3138) (DPW = 1179)
Weight (kg): Less than 7
Muzzle Velocity (m/s): 290

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/AT-4specs.png

[ArmySGT.]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Panzermuseum_Munster_2010_0660.JPG/300px-Panzermuseum_Munster_2010_0660.JPG

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/ac/2A28_Grom_BMP1.jpg/400px-2A28_Grom_BMP1.jpg

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=158502&d=1308305238

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5pNropqWfqAkFvGLcRPzuMDNnl9bmj FbfU5nddoZJbnBxaUOe

Caliber, Type, Name: 73-mm smoothbore gun, 2A28/Grom
Rate of Fire (rd/min): 7-8
Loader Type: Autoloader
Ready/Stowed Rounds: 40 / 0
Elevation (°): -4/ +33
Fire on Move: Yes, but only 10 km/h or less (est)
http://www.kyklotron.com/rocket6.jpg
73-mm HEAT-FS, PG-15VNT (tandem HEAT)
Maximum Aimed Range (m): 1,300
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 1,300, but 600 or less on the move
Night: 800-1,000
Tactical AA Range: INA
Armor Penetration (mm CE): 550-700 (RHA) (e-factor 2797 - 3847)

http://www.digplc.com/products/1/1.2.11.jpg
73-mm HEAT-FS, PG-15
Maximum Aimed Range (m): 1,300
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 800, but 600 or less on the move
Night: 800-1,000
Tactical AA Range: INA
Armor Penetration (mm CE): 335 (RHA) (E-factor 1452)

http://www.digplc.com/products/1/1.2.22.jpg
73-mm HE, OG-15BG1
Maximum Aimed Range (m): 1,300, 600 or less on the move
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 1,300, but 600 or less on the move
Night: 800-1,000
Tactical AA Range: INA
Armor penetration (mm): INA, can damage/defeat APC.
http://www.digplc.com/products/1/1.2.14.jpg
73-mm HE, OG-15VM
Maximum Aimed Range (m): 4,500
Max Effective Range (m):
Day: 1,300, but 600 or less on the move
Night: 800-1,000
Tactical AA Range: INA
Armor Penetration (mm): INA, can damage/defeat APC

[ArmySGT.]

United States 106-mm Recoilless Rifle M40

Oops, I have already done this one.

[ArmySGT.]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Shillelagh_rocket.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/MGM-51.jpg/300px-MGM-51.jpg

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M551/shillelagh_02.jpg
Name MGM-151-C Shillelagh Missile
Cal. 152mm
E-Factor = 2466 48 * 2.5^[3.322(log(500) - 1.4049)] = 2465.731375
DPW = 9643 (3.6kg Octol)
Wt. (Empty) 61.28 lb (27.8 kg)
Min. Range 800 yards (730 m) before the gunner can see it, to guide it. Semi Active Command Line of Sight (SACLOS)
Eff. Range 3000m
Max. Range 3000m
Burst Radius 5m
Type of Fire Breech loaded (M81E1 Gun/Launcher)
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. Manually loaded
Basic Load 9 in hull of 29 stowed rounds total (M551)
Load Wt.
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:15 pounds (6.8 kg) Shaped Charge Warhead including 8 pounds (3.6 kg) of Octol Explosives
able to defeat 15.5 inches of RHA at 0º obliquity[2]

[ArmySGT.]

I made an excel 2010 file with a selection list and RE lookup for DPW. I think it needed to be 2007 or above (xlsx) in order to do the lookup.

I also did a E-Factor formula if you enter the mm or penetration
= 48 * 2.5^(3.322*(LOG(B13) - 1.4049))

You can use this if you have a prior version of excel where B13 is the pen value in mm.

I have never really used these formulas (my gaming system uses Guns, Guns, Guns), so if there are errors let me know.

For the excel file enter/select the data in the yellow fields and the results are in the green fields.

Is there a version with the Explosives listed in alphabetical or grouped by type?

Also can A5 (98.5 to 99% RDX) be added?

Thanks!

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/M430A1.png

CARTRIDGE, 40-MILLIMETER: HEDP, M430, M430A1
This cartridge is a high explosive, dual purpose, impact type round designed to penetrate two inches (three inches for the M430A1) of steel armor at 0 angle of obliquity and inflict personnel casualties in the target area. It is fired from 40mm Machine Gun MK19 Mod 3. Not authorized for use in M129 Grenade Launcher.
Warning! Use in the M203, H&K 469, or M79 will result in destruction of the weapon and severe injury or death of the operator.

Complete round:
Type --------------------------------- HEDP
Weight ------------------------------ 0.75 lb (340 g)
Length ------------------------------ 4.415 in.
Weapons used with ------------- MK19 Mod 1and Mod 3 40mm Grenade Machine Gun

Projectile:
Body material -------------------- Blanked and drawn steel
Color -------------------------------- Olive drab w/yellow markings and yellow ogive.
Filler and wieght ---------------- Comp A5, 38 g (32 g - M430A1) (E-Factor = 117. DPW = 43/ E-factor =201, DPW = 43)
Fuze --------------------------------- PIBD, M549
Propelling charge:
Cartridge case -------------------- M169
Propellant ------------------------- M2, 4.2 g
Primer ------------------------------ Percussion, FED 215

Performance:
Maximum range ----------------- 2,200 m
Muzzle velocity ------------------- 241 mps (790 fps)
Arming distance ----------------- 18 to 40 m (59 -131 ft)
Temperature Limits:
Firing:
Lower limit ------------------------ -65°F (-53.8°C)
Upper limit ------------------------ +125°F(+52.0°C)
Storage:
Lower limit ------------------------ -65°F (-53.8°C)
Upper limit ------------------------ +165°F(+73.9°C)
U.S. Army Pack:
*Packing

*Packing box: ------------------------------ 50 rounds in linked belt
Weight ------------------------------ 53 lb
Dimensions ----------------------- 26-3/8 x 16-1/4 x 6-3/16 in.
cube --------------------------------- 1.5 cu ft

Packing Box: ------ 32 rounds in linked belt
Weight ------------------------------- 42 lb
Dimensions ------------------------ 18.76 x 10.39x 6.36 in.
Cube --------------------------------- 0.72 cu ft

[nuke11]

Is there a version with the Explosives listed in alphabetical or grouped by type?

Also can A5 (98.5 to 99% RDX) be added?

Thanks!

Composition A5 (98.5% RDX + 1.5% Stearic Acid) = 1.01

[mmartin798]

I am enjoying this discussion, but I do have a question. I was just comparing dpw numbers from the rules versus the calculation given here. There are some fairly large discrepancies. There are a few that I find perplexing and wonder if there is a reason. Take for example a TOW missile. It has about 3kg of LX-14, which is 95.5% HDX. Using the RE of 1.28, we get dpw of 8867 using the calculation. The rules show a dpw of 3120. My question is, would the fact that the warhead is a shaped charge inside a titanium form to direct the charge forward be the reason the dpw is lower? In my mind, that sort of makes sense, but does make dpw calculation just that much more complicated.

[ArmySGT.]

I am enjoying this discussion, but I do have a question. I was just comparing dpw numbers from the rules versus the calculation given here. There are some fairly large discrepancies. There are a few that I find perplexing and wonder if there is a reason. Take for example a TOW missile. It has about 3kg of LX-14, which is 95.5% HDX. Using the RE of 1.28, we get dpw of 8867 using the calculation. The rules show a dpw of 3120. My question is, would the fact that the warhead is a shaped charge inside a titanium form to direct the charge forward be the reason the dpw is lower? In my mind, that sort of makes sense, but does make dpw calculation just that much more complicated.

The data was classified in the 1970s when third edition was written..... These days the warhead data is much more public. The U.S. arms industries relies heavily on foreign sales to make U.S. equipment and R&D for future equipment so this is disclosed at arms expos.

[nuke11]

I am enjoying this discussion, but I do have a question. I was just comparing dpw numbers from the rules versus the calculation given here. There are some fairly large discrepancies. There are a few that I find perplexing and wonder if there is a reason. Take for example a TOW missile. It has about 3kg of LX-14, which is 95.5% HDX. Using the RE of 1.28, we get dpw of 8867 using the calculation. The rules show a dpw of 3120. My question is, would the fact that the warhead is a shaped charge inside a titanium form to direct the charge forward be the reason the dpw is lower? In my mind, that sort of makes sense, but does make dpw calculation just that much more complicated.
LX-14 is used in the later models of TOW, the BGM-71A/B (which is most likely what is depicted in the game book) used 2Kg of Octol which is 1.16 which gives you 5357 Dpw, still doesn't come close to the published number, but I would guess based on the time frame the correct information would have been difficult to find based on the bibliography listed.

As you ask does the shaped charge account for the reduced Dpw, most likely this could answer that question.

[ArmySGT.]

Russian 82-mm Frag Projectile Model 0-832

Projectile fuzed mass: 3.41 kg
Fuze: M-1 PD
Filler: Schneiderite 0.40 kg
Using weapon(s): Mortar M1937 (M1942-M1943 version)
Remarks: Also uses M-2, M-3, M-4, MP, and MP-82 PD
fuzes

Anyone know what "Schneiderite" is and what the RE might be?

[kato13]

Anyone know what "Schneiderite" is and what the RE might be?

According to wikipedia it is the French name for Amatol with a formula heavy on the ammonium nitrate (7 to 1) and with dinitronaphthalene (DNN) replacing TNT.

Looking at the chart above with .32 for pure AN and .68 for a 50/50 mix with TNT (stronger than DNN i believe), I don't think you would get much past .40 but that is really a guess.

https://books.google.com/books?id=u2U7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&lpg=PT95&dq=Schneiderite+explosive&source=bl&ots=UNEadcbJLx&sig=SKtVkFFEFPiJi4AdLQjydP6JSnk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gjeeVPX2ApCsyATbyIL4AQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Schneiderite%20explosive&f=false confirms the wiki ratios and ingredients.

It looks like the name went out of favor right after WWI as all published references I can find are before 1917.

[ArmySGT.]

According to wikipedia it is the French name for Amatol with a formula heavy on the ammonium nitrate (7 to 1) and with dinitronaphthalene (DNN) replacing TNT.

Looking at the chart above with .32 for pure AN and .68 for a 50/50 mix with TNT (stronger than DNN i believe), I don't think you would get much past .40 but that is really a guess.

https://books.google.com/books?id=u2U7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT95&lpg=PT95&dq=Schneiderite+explosive&source=bl&ots=UNEadcbJLx&sig=SKtVkFFEFPiJi4AdLQjydP6JSnk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gjeeVPX2ApCsyATbyIL4AQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Schneiderite%20explosive&f=false confirms the wiki ratios and ingredients.

It looks like the name went out of favor right after WWI as all published references I can find are before 1917.

Thanks....... For some reason the Defense Intelligence Agency is still using this.......Likely a lazy researcher using direct translations from Soviet manuals. No effort to confirm or use modern terminology. Then again...... Soviet manual and archaic terms are a waltz to the numbers.

Defense Intelligence Reference Document
Projectile and Warhead Identification Guide—Foreign
Information Cutoff Date: January 1997

[ArmySGT.]

Range=(v^2*sin(2o))/g

Using as a white board for a moment.

Also, mortars general

[ArmySGT.]

To good not to share..... Rounds from 40mm and up. NATO and Soviet... by caliber, what weapon system, explosive filler, and amount.

Happy factoring! 3514


*Correction* NATO and primarily U.S. only.

[ArmySGT.]

3517

Name M123A1 High Explosive Plastic (HEP) Caliber 165mm
E-Factor =
DPW = 36,668 (15.88kg Compostion A-3)
Wt. 67.60 (30.66 kg)
Eff. Range 914m
Max. Range 914m
Burst Radius 25m
Type of Fire Breech loaded (M135 Demolition Gun)
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. Manually loaded
Basic Load 30 rounds stowed in the M728 CEV
Load Wt.
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:This cartridge is a chemical energy round designed for demolition. It is capable of damaging or destroying the type of structures (log
walls, concrete bunkers, etc.) and equipment (abandoned vehicles etc.) encountered on a battlefield. It is also effective as an antipersonnel round.

Limitations:
Functional reliability will be degraded when impacting soft targets such as marshy, sandy, clay, mud, or snow covered terrain.

[ArmySGT.]

Hi Nuke!

Is this still current? I am thinking of going on a non-U.S. ATGM game stats spree....... Would this list be the most current still?

I need to add Caribbean, Central America, Canadian, and more Soviet to the threats to Project or KFS equipment.

May even do some torpedoes and anti-ship weapons.


Here is an updated chart.

Explosive Relative Effectiveness Chart 1.0

Common Name(s) RE
Dynamite (40% Ammonia) 0.31
Ammonium Nitrate (AN + <0.5% H2O) 0.32
Dynamite (40% Gelatin) 0.32
Black Powder (75% KNO3 + 19% C + 6% S) 0.38
Dynamite (60% Ammonia) 0.40
Hexamine Dinitrate (HDN) 0.45
Dinitrobenzene (DNB) 0.45
Dynamite (40% Nitroglycerin) 0.49
HMTD (Hexamine Peroxide) 0.56
ANFO (94% AN + 6% Fuel Oil) 0.56
Dynamite (60% Gelatin) 0.57
TATP (Acetone Peroxide) 0.60
Tovex Extra (AN Water Gel) Commercial Product 0.60
Hydromite 600 (AN Water Emulsion) Commercial Product 0.60
Dynamite (60% Nitroglycerin) 0.62
ANNMAL (67% AN + 25% NM + 5% Al + 3% C) 0.65
Amatol (50% TNT + 50% AN) 0.68
Nitroguanidine 0.75
Trinitrotoluene (TNT) 0.75
Hexanitrostilbene (HNS or JD-X) 0.79
Nitrourea (N-nitrourea, 1-nitrourea or N-nitrocarbamide) 0.79
Amatol (80% TNT + 20% AN) 0.83
Nitrocellulose (13.5% N, NC) 0.83
Nitromethane (NM) 0.83
Diethylene Glycol Dinitrate (DEGDN) 0.88
Tritonal (80% TNT + 20% Aluminum Powder) 0.88
Triaminotrinitrobenzene (TATB) 0.88
Picric Acid (TNP) 0.90
Trinitrobenzene (TNB) 0.90
Tetrytol (70% Tetryl + 30% TNT) 0.90
Dynamite (75% NG + 23% Diatomite) 0.94
Tetryl (2,4,6-Trinitrophenylmethylnitramine) 0.94
Composition C3 (87% RDX) 1.00
Composition C4 (91% RDX) 1.00
Composition A3 (91% RDX) 1.00
Pentolite (56% PETN + 44% TNT) 1.00
Semtex 1A (76% PETN + 6% RDX) 1.01
Composition B (60% RDX + 40% TNT) 1.01
Composition A4 (97% RDX) 1.01
Composition H6 (45% RDX + 30% TNT + 20% Powdered Aluminum) 1.01
Cyclotol (70% RDX + 30% TNT) 1.01
Hydrazine Mononitrate 1.07
RISAL P (51% IPN + 28% RDX + 14% Al + 4% Mg + 0.7% Zr + 2% NC) 1.13
Nitroglycerin (NG) 1.16
Octol (80% HMX + 19% TNT + 1% DNT) 1.16
Gelatine (92% NG + 7% Nitrocellulose) 1.20
Erythritol tetranitrate (ETN) 1.20
NTO (Nitrotriazolon) 1.20
Hexogen (RDX) 1.20
Penthrite (PETN) 1.25
Ethylene glycol dinitrate (EGDN) 1.25
TNAZ (Trinitroazetidine) 1.28
HMX Grade A (Octogen) 1.28
HMX Grade B (Octogen) 1.28
HNIW (CL-20) 1.35
Hexanitrobenzene (HNB) 1.35
MEDINA (Methylene dinitroamine) 1.45
DDF (4,4'-Dinitro-3,3'-diazenofuroxan) 1.46
Octanitrocubane (ONC) 1.79

[ArmySGT.]

Updated the spreadsheet with the add ins from Nuke11 in the body of the thread and my weapons description short cut.

Alphabetized by explosive type too.

3523

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M21%20AT%20Mine.gif

Name: M21 Anti-Tank, Heavy
Wt: 17.5 lbs.
Burst Radius:
DPW: 11428 Main chg Comp H-6 10.8 lb 4.9 kg
Packaging: 2 mines w/2 fuzes w/2 boosters in barrier bag. 2 bags (4 mines) w/2 wrenches in wire-bound box
Package Wt: 90 lb
Package Dimensions: 29-1/4 x 12-1/2 x13-1/2 in.
Effects.
Use:
Mine M21 is used primarily for destroying tanks and tracked and wheeled vehicles. It is a standoff type that can penetrate 3-inch armor plate at a distance of 21 inches. It also functions as a blast-type mine (E-factor 204)

Functioning:
The fuze M607 for the mine is actuated by applying a horizontal force greater than 3.75 pounds at the end of the extension rod. The fuze is also actuated by a directly applied downward force of 290 pounds. The fuze ignites the black powder expelling charge in the mine and the resulting detonation opens up the mine cover and removes the earth covering the mine. Back pressure from the burning propellant drives the firing pin into the M42 primer which, in turn, ignites the delay assembly. After 0.15 second, the relay assembly is detonated, firing the M120 booster, which, in turn, fires the main charge. The steel dish is then driven at high velocity against the target. The arming wrench M26 is provided for use with this mine and fuze.

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M26%20AP%20mine.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/US%20M26%20Landmine.jpg
Name: M26 Anti personnel
Wt: 2.2lbs, 997.9031g
Burst Radius:
DPW: 396 Main Chg Comp B 0.375 lb 170 gm
Packaging: 3 mines per fiber container, 6 containers (18 mines) per wooden box
Package Wt: 60lb, 27kg 215.5400g
Package Dimensions: 21-1/4 x 12-1/2 x 9-3/4 in.
Effects.

Functioning:
Setting the mine to the armed (A) position rotates the barrel assembly so that the primer and delay assembly are in direct alinement with the flash hole in the barrel assembly and with the expelling charge directly above. A force of 14 to 28 pounds on the mine top, or a pull on the top level will activate the mine. Upon actuation, the spring loaded firing pin is released
and fires the primer and delay assembly which ignites the expelling charge. This ejects the fragmenting ball assembly to a height of approximately 2 meters. The delay, ignited by the expelling charge, then initiates the
booster which detonates the main charge, shattering the fragmenting ball. The mine may be rigged for tripwire activation. Remove the trip lever from storage in the spool assembly and insert in the threaded well in the
cam, top, center. Attach one or more of the tripwires, as required.

Attached to, but easily removable from the mine are the following accessories: Arming Handle, Arming Instruction Tag, Trip Lever, and Spool Assembly. Four 20 foot trip wires, two colored olive drab and two tan, are stored on the spool.

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M86%20pdm%20-1.gif
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M86_PDM.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M86%20PDM%20bandolier.jpg

Name: M86 Pursuit Denial Munition
Wt:
Burst Radius:
DPW: 49 Main Charge Comp A5 21 gr
Packaging:
Package Wt:
Package Dimensions:
Effects.
The M86 Antipersonnel Mine is manually armed by removing the safety clip and then the arming strap assembly. A camming action breaks the shorting bar and forces the battery ball against the battery breaking the glass ampule containing an electrolyte which activates the reserve battery and provides power. The shorting bar hook, attached to the cam, shears the shorting bar (a safety device across the detonator). After a 60-second (nominal) electronic time delay, a piston actuator in the Safe and Arm mechanism is electrically fired, moving a slider to align the detonator with an explosive lead in the slider. At the same time, seven sensor triplines are released. Approximate three or four triplines will deploy up to 20 feet from the mine, depending upon the at-rest position of the mine. The remaining triplines may be hindered due to their proximity to the resting surface. After an additional 10- second electronic time delay, allowing the munition to return to equilibrium, the mine is fully armed electronically. Disturbance of a tripline, or the mine itself, now triggers a switch which completes an electronic firing circuit. The S&A electric detonator initiates the S&A firing train which initiates a detonating cord which then initiates a thin layer of liquid propellant, which by gravity rests under the kill mechanism, shattering the plastic mine body and propelling the kill mechanism upwards from 6 inches to 8 feet above the ground where it detonates. The kill mechanism is a spheroid internally embossed and loaded with 21 grams of Comp A5 and when detonated, propels fragments in a high velocity spherical pattern.
If the mine is not activated by tripline or disturbance mode, a factory preset self-destruct feature initiates the mine in 4 hours plus 0-20 percent.

[nuke11]

Hi Nuke!

Is this still current? I am thinking of going on a non-U.S. ATGM game stats spree....... Would this list be the most current still?

I need to add Caribbean, Central America, Canadian, and more Soviet to the threats to Project or KFS equipment.

May even do some torpedoes and anti-ship weapons.
Yes this is still my current work. I've been digging around for Soviet information, but it seems to be a bit harder to find for some reason.

[ArmySGT.]

For M102 Howitzer (KFS issue) towed behind one M35 2 1/2 ton truck.

Caliber: 105mm
Weight: 1500kg
ROF: 5 round per minute
Maximum range: 14,000 Meters
Feed Device: Single shot, screw type breech
Basic Load: 150 rounds
Ammunition types: HE, WP, Illum
Crew: 8

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/M1%20105mm%20HE.jpg

Name M1 105mm HE
E-Factor =
DPW = 6136 (2.63084kg Compostion B) or 3771 (2.17724kg TNT)
Wt. 39.92 lbs (18.107407 kg)
Eff. Range 11500m
Max. Range 11,500m
Burst Radius 25m
Type of Fire single shot, screw type breech
Rate of Fire Single
Feed Device n/a
Feed Device Wt. Manually loaded
Basic Load 150 rounds
Load Wt.
Total Wt.
Additional Comments:Very basic HE artillery shell. Maybe fitted with a variety of fuses for air burst (Variable Time (VT)) which is preferred, impact, delay, and contact fuses.
Limitations:
Functional reliability will be degraded when impacting soft targets such as marshy, sandy, clay, mud, or snow covered terrain.

Use:
The projectile of this cartridge contains high explosive and is used for fragmentation, blast, and mining in support of ground troops and armored columns.

Description:
The projectile consists of a hollow steel forging with a boattail base, a streamlined ogive, and gilding metal rotating band. A base cover is welded to the base of the projectile for
added protection against the entrance of hot gases from the propelling charge during firing. The high explosive (HE) filler within the projectile may be either cast TNT or Composition B. A fuze cavity is either drilled or formed in the filler at the nose end of the projectile. This cavity may be either shallow or deep. A cavity liner, to preclude dusting of HE during transportation and handling, is seated in the cavity and expanded into the lower projectile fuze threads. A supplementary charge is placed in the fuze cavity of projectiles having deep cavities. Projectiles with shallow cavities or deep cavities containing a supplementary charge use only short intrusion fuzes, PD, or MT. Those with deep cavities will accept the long intrusion proximity fuze after removing the supplementary charge. Projectiles may be shipped with a PD or MTSQ fuze or with a closing plug. When
shipped with a closing plug, a chip board spacer is assembled between the supplementary charge and plug to limit movement of the former during transportation and handling.
The cartridge case contains a percussion primer assembly and seven individually bagged and numbered propelling charge increments. The base of the cartridge case is drilled and the primer assembly is pressed into the base. The percussion primer assembly consists of a percussion ignition element and a perforated flash tube containing black powder. The seven numbered increment bags are tied together, in numerical order, with acrylic cord. These are assembled into the cartridge case, around the primer flash tube, with Increment 1 at the base of the cartridge case and Increment 7 toward the mouth of the cartridge case.

Functioning:
If the projectile is unfuzed, the closing plug is removed and a fuze assembled to the projectile prior to adjusting the charge and loading the cartridge into the weapon. Impact of the weapon firing pin results in the initiation of the percussion primer which, in turn, ignites the black powder in the flash tube. The flash tube provides for uniform ignition of the propelling charge producing a rapid expansion of the propellant gas which propels the projectile out of the weapon tube. Engagement of the projectile rotating band with the rifling of the weapon tube imparts spin to the projectile providing inflight stability. Projectile functioning is dependent upon the fuze used and may function on impact (instantaneous or delay), function above ground either at a predetermined height based upon time of flight or function in proximity with the target area. Fuze function detonates the HE projectile filler resulting in projectile fragmentation and blast.

[ArmySGT.]

CARTRIDGE, 25MM, ARMOR PIERCING DISCARDING SABOT-TRACER, M791
For use in M242 Bushmaster cannon.


3586

[ArmySGT.]

Cartridge, 25mm, armor piercing fin stabilized
discarding sabot-tracer, m919

3587

[ArmySGT.]

CARTRIDGE, 25MM, HIGH EXPLOSIVE INCENDIARY-TRACER, M792
For use in M242 Bushmaster cannon.

3588

[ArmySGT.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_effectiveness_factor

Should a new formula include the detonation velocity to figure DPW?

[mmartin798]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_effectiveness_factor

Should a new formula include the detonation velocity to figure DPW?

This may be a place to start:

[ArmySGT.]

This may be a place to start:

Thanks for that! That will be helpful..... the fragmentation velocity calculation alone for one thing.

Currently, explosives are ranked and the damage points are factored off the given explosives effectiveness relative to an equivalent amount of TNT.

There is one difference not taken into account when factoring damage. The detonation velocity.

Looking for a way to model some explosives like thermobarics and give them their just do in power.

There are a number of thermobarics in the list... look for aluminum.

[ArmySGT.]

The Gurney Equations14 are a range of formulae used in explosives engineering to predict how fast an explosive will accelerate a surrounding layer of metal or other material when the explosive detonates. This determines how fast fragments are released on detonation of an item of ammunition. This initial fragment velocity can then be used with other ballistic equations to predict either danger areas or fragment penetration.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Guerneys%20equations.jpg

So what should the mass of shrapnel be?

I was going with 0.1 gram for a modern grenade. 0.5 gram for a modern mortar shell.

Anyone think more?

[mmartin798]

I was going with 0.1 gram for a modern grenade.


Based on data available on the M67, 0.1 gram is about right. The fragmentation coil is about 140 g and tests at the Armament Research, Development & Engineering Center in Picantinny, NJ showed about 1335 fragments.

[ArmySGT.]

so how about this.....

M67 Fragmentation grenade..

using the spherical charge equation.

(7620/(7620/0.333)=((0.1/0.18)+3/5)-1/2 <--- that in negative one half as an exponent.



22882 = 0.65555555555555555555555555555556

Fragment is moving a 0.66 meters per second?

But, then E-factor is based on speed and diameter of the projectile..... without weight as a factor.

[mmartin798]

I think your algebra is off. I solved the equation for V and got the equation below.

Substituting the values I get V = 2730 m/s

[ArmySGT.]

I think your algebra is off. I solved the equation for V and got the equation below.

Substituting the values I get V = 2730 m/s

Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Algebra is not one of my best subjects. I was trying to use the calculator built into Windows too. My scientific calculator is packed away.

So, with a velocity.... we need a diameter for the e-factor formula.

Modern grenade? 1mm? or 0.5 mm? for a fragment.......

WW2 grenade, 3mm? 5mm?

[mmartin798]

We might not need to know the size, but use a modified E-Factor calculation. The E-Factor is a measure of the wound cavity. As wound cavity is caused mostly by momentum conservation and transfer, it is the momentum of the fragment that matters. Momentum is just mass x velocity, which we have for fragmentation. We just need to find how the bullet diameter is related to mass and make the substitution.

Edit

Been giving this some more thought. We really don't need to mess with the formula if we have an idea of the fragment size, and that size can be calculated if we make some assumptions. If we assume the fragments are roughly cylindrical with diameter approximately the same as the height, we can use the density of steel and the mass we know to calculate the volume and extrapolate the dimensions. Sounds like a lunch time project.

[mmartin798]

So, with a velocity.... we need a diameter for the e-factor formula.

Modern grenade? 1mm? or 0.5 mm? for a fragment.......?

Ok, density of steel = 8.05 g/cm^3

Mass of an M67 fragment = 0.1 g

Volume of an M67 fragment = 0.1/8.05 = .01242 cm^3

Volume of a cylinder is given by:
V= pi * r^2 * h

Assuming height equals diameter gives:
V = pi * r^2 * 2 * r
V = 2 * pi * r^3

Solving for r gives:
r = (V/(2*pi))^(1/3)

Doing the substitutions and doubling the radius to get the diameter and height we get 0.251 cm or 2.51 mm

If we assume a softer steel with a density of 7.75 g/cm^3, the diameter comes to 2.54 mm

[ArmySGT.]

Damn, that gives an M67 fragmentation grenade an Efactor of 18 per fragment and you roll 1d20 to determine the number of fragments that hit the target.

Guess, players aren't going to shrug that off like they did with resistweave and the old 4 points per fragment.

[mmartin798]

Damn, that gives an M67 fragmentation grenade an Efactor of 18 per fragment and you roll 1d20 to determine the number of fragments that hit the target.

Guess, players aren't going to shrug that off like they did with resistweave and the old 4 points per fragment.

I need to fix a couple things. First, I made an error with my equation illustration earlier and did a unit conversion wrong for the fragment velocity. The correct equation is below and the new M67 fragment velocity is 3278 m/s. So that makes the second thing to correct the EFactor for each fragment to 21. Sorry for the confusion there Sgt.

This means one of two things. We may need to adjust the number of fragments that strike a person to something lower or we just start carrying a big bag of M67s and lots of body armor.

[mmartin798]

It turns out that short cylinders have a high drag coefficient and lose velocity very quickly. This chart shows the effect of range on velocity and EFactor of M67 fragments from 0 to 50m.

[ArmySGT.]

Probably why they hammer into you that 5 meter spread... lethal radius is 10 meters and no two soldiers should get caught in it.

[ArmySGT.]

another job well done by the way!

[mmartin798]

For those who want to calculate values for other grenades, here is a spreadsheet you can use. Remember the assumptions used in these calculations are that the fragments are generated from a wire coil and the fragments are all uniform and the same length as the diameter of the wire. The fragments are therefore short cylinders and have a drag coefficient of 1.15.

[ArmySGT.]

Yes this is still my current work. I've been digging around for Soviet information, but it seems to be a bit harder to find for some reason.

Did I send you the Defense Intelligence Agency munitions guide I have?

I got it off of Scribd.... Which has been a good source for these.

[nuke11]

Ok, the problem you have at the moment is the document is based on TNT equivalent of an RE of 1.00. The game uses C4 as it's equivalent for an RE of 1.00 and TNT has an RE of 0.75 in the game.

You will need to adjust all of the formulas from the document accordingly.

Doesn't the M67 have a solid steel case that also needs to be taken into account for the fragments? Here is a good website that shows what some of the fragments look like: http://machinesforwar.blogspot.ca/2012/03/m67.html

Some more images of the inside of the case and what the fragments look like: http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/Gren4/CutawayM67.jpg and http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/loworderM67.JPG

The M26 is the grenade with a spiral wound wire core: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Ascout/OR-034A.jpg

[mmartin798]

Ok, the problem you have at the moment is the document is based on TNT equivalent of an RE of 1.00. The game uses C4 as it's equivalent for an RE of 1.00 and TNT has an RE of 0.75 in the game.

You will need to adjust all of the formulas from the document accordingly.

The Gurney equations don't care about the RE at all. It only uses the uses the Gurney constant which does not necessarily correlate with RE. Taking the example of making C4 1.00 and TNT 0.75, we would expect TNT to perform at 75% of C4. But that is not the case. C4 has a Gurney constant of 2530 m/s and TNT is 2438 m/s, which makes TNT perform at 96% of C4. The equation in my spreadsheet uses the approximation of the Gurney constant, which is one third of the detonation velocity. For C4 that works out to 8200/3 or 2733 and TNT is 6900/3 or 2300. That makes TNT 84% of C4, which is closer to the 75% you are looking for already.

Doesn't the M67 have a solid steel case that also needs to be taken into account for the fragments? Here is a good website that shows what some of the fragments look like: http://machinesforwar.blogspot.ca/2012/03/m67.html

Some more images of the inside of the case and what the fragments look like: http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/Gren4/CutawayM67.jpg and http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/loworderM67.JPG

The M26 is the grenade with a spiral wound wire core: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Ascout/OR-034A.jpg

The method of determining fragment size was an approximation intended to simplify the math and make fragments of uniform dimensions that can be directly plugged into the EFactor equation. While we could take the mass of the case and the diameter of the grenade to determine an approximate thickness and then divide the surface area up into the number of fragments to get the area of the face which is more accurate as to what happens with the case of the M67, we are then stuck with fragments that are essentially flat tiles. There is no diameter that we can reasonably put through the EFactor equation as it is shown in the rules. Even though we can calculate the kinetic energy of these flat tile fragments, that is still not enough information to determine the wound generating capability of the fragments. KE alone has been shown time and time again to bot be reliable in wound cavity calculation. The EFactor used in the rules is similar to wound approximation models for significant number to ballistic rounds. So while the wire core is not what happens with an actual M67, it works better for incorporating with the EFactor of other weapons in the game.

[nuke11]

Ok, what happens if a square wire coil is used instead? From the M26A2 the wire is about 3 mm square and lets assume the coil is fragmented every 3 mm for a 3 x 3 cube how does this impact the results?

http://i.imgur.com/FvWF19q.jpg

[ArmySGT.]

http://i.imgur.com/FvWF19q.jpg

[mmartin798]

A few things change. The fragments are slightly heavier with a mass of 0.21g, versus 0.1g. The M26A2 has 0.16 kg of filler, which is a little less. However, that makes no difference to the initial fragment velocity, which is still 3276 m/s. The larger fragments have a higher EFactor initially of 25.

[mmartin798]

I have been thinking about the way grenade damage is applied in game versus the calculations I have been working with and the killing and casualty causing radius of the M67.

The rules give the M67 a 15m burst radius. The M67 has a killing radius of 5m and a casualty causing radius of 15m. So far they seem in agreement.

3rd edition has 1d20 fragments of Efactor 4 for any one in the burst radius. So wearing resistweave coveralls will keep you safe from fragment damage and you only take the full body damage from the DPW of the filler.

4th edition has number of fragments hitting equal to DoS*(Burst radius - actual radius). So we have Kevin, a Marine recon sniper with STR 26 and no specialization in thrown weapons chuck an M67 at Floyd 30m away, rolls a 37 which hits with a DoS of 3. The grenade explodes 9m from Floyd creating 3*(15-9) or 18 fragments with 1+ DoS * 2 or 7 fragments hitting of Efactor 4 each. Again the resistweave coveralls are great.

Using the real world data, assuming uniform fragment distribution, 1335 fragments disbursed and an human silhouette are of about 0.8m^2, we have 4.2 fragments hitting that silhouette at 5m with an Efactor of 17. At 10m we have 1 fragment with an Efactor of 14. At 15m, we have 0.5 fragments with an Efactor of 11. So here at 5m, resistweave bring us 3-5 fragments doing 10 dp each, at 10m, that is 1-2 doing 7 dp each and at 15m we have 0-1 fragments doing 4dp.

Clearly the rules don't really represent the real world data well. But are we satisfied with the rules or could they stand a tweak?

[mmartin798]

I can start things off. The 3rd edition rules with their flat 1d20 fragments was always a problem for me. All the grenades in the game are of a vintage that optimized for uniform fragmentation. Some mechanic mimicking the inverse square rule should have been there. 4th edition, with the number of fragments scaled in part by the distance from the grenade is a step in the right direction.

Even though I have not yet gotten a group together to play 4th edition, I do like the idea of the DoS allowing for more spectacular results. While it may not be 100% true to real world, it makes for better story telling.

The damage per fragment is my biggest gripe. The stereotypical room breaching scenario of tossing in a grenade and charging in after it goes off is a viable for any situation using the rules as written. Real world says that it might work for a bunker, but not a wooden building. Doing that would injure or kill the people crouched outside the door waiting to go in when the grenade goes off. As written the rules make Project personnel, who are covered from head to toe in armor with AV 7 or greater assuming they are wearing a helmet, immune from damage if they manage to get the grenade 2.75m away from themselves. That just does not seem right.

I mean, if you have someone with an HP-35 and they shoot and hit this person from 5m away, you will do 2dp someplace. If this same person is 5m from a badly thrown grenade that hits (DoS = 1), using the 4th edition rules there are 10 fragments with 3 that hit doing no damage. Make it an extremely well thrown grenade (DoS = 10), you get 100 fragments with 21 hitting for, no damage. This person is at the edge of the lethal range of the grenade and takes no damage. It just feels off.

[nuke11]

I like the idea of a bit more realism in the game. I would say to continue to develop the expansion of these rules.

The 5 m kill radius needs to be just that in the game for a grenade. The coveralls shouldn't be the get out of jail free card. If the players do something stupid, that needs to be accounted for.

[mmartin798]

There is no real good to handle the M67 damage without another table. This table has values for the ranges listed that are at reasonable, let the resistweave be effective in the injury ranges and close to actual data. The curve, while not quite exponential, is still quite close. Again, comments are still appreciated.

[nuke11]

There is no real good to handle the M67 damage without another table. This table has values for the ranges listed that are at reasonable, let the resistweave be effective in the injury ranges and close to actual data. The curve, while not quite exponential, is still quite close. Again, comments are still appreciated.

It looks good for a real world to game information.

[nuke11]

I've been working with the formula for a Mk82 500 lbs bomb (up coming article), using an average fragment weight of 150 grains (0.0097 kg) 8000 fragments, out to 50 m I have 17 at 100 m 13, so you are not going to be a happy camper. If the blast doesn't kill you the fragments will.

So I would say the formula is a good representation of game mechanics.

[mmartin798]

I revised the damage slightly. I did not like the way it dropped off at the end. Expanding the range increments and playing with the curve, I came up with new values that give a more aesthetically pleasing curve.

[ArmySGT.]

I've been working with the formula for a Mk82 500 lbs bomb (up coming article), using an average fragment weight of 150 grains (0.0097 kg) 8000 fragments, out to 50 m I have 17 at 100 m 13, so you are not going to be a happy camper. If the blast doesn't kill you the fragments will.

So I would say the formula is a good representation of game mechanics.

People may have forgotten how lethal the TMP game system is. Guns and everything are very prominent, however after a few combats (and probably their first Frozen Watch) the players are going to avoid combat for more diplomacy.

[kato13]

If we want to go for super scifi warheads and bombs, there have been rumblings that metallic hydrogen has been produced in the lab. And this could be a stable form of the element even after it is removed from the ultra cold and ultra high pressure environment. (I have no idea about its stability to shock and such, but it is theorized that is could exist in room temperature)

This could lead to an explosive that is 35 times a powerful as TNT per gram and with a density of 1.11g /cm^3 (much higher that previously theorized).

So by volume is would be about 23.6 times a powerful.

It might actually end up being more powerful in practice as the byproduct of the initial reaction is H2 meaning that could combine with oxygen for an even larger explosion.

[ArmySGT.]

If we want to go for super scifi warheads and bombs, there have been rumblings that metallic hydrogen has been produced in the lab. And this could be a stable form of the element even after it is removed from the ultra cold and ultra high pressure environment. (I have no idea about its stability to shock and such, but it is theorized that is could exist in room temperature)

This could lead to an explosive that is 35 times a powerful as TNT per gram and with a density of 1.11g /cm^3 (much higher that previously theorized).

So by volume is would be about 23.6 times a powerful.

It might actually end up being more powerful in practice as the byproduct of the initial reaction is H2 meaning that could combine with oxygen for an even larger explosion.

TMP warheads with metallic hydrogen instead of HE/TNT/RDX?

Ouch.

[kato13]

TMP warheads with metallic hydrogen instead of HE/TNT/RDX?

Ouch.


Super powerful explosives might just be a "happy" addition to other advanced tech if TMP was able to produce metallic hydrogen. It would also be a room temp superconductor AND a material which might be able to achieve fusion without the normal rigmarole.

Given the material was theorized in the 30s and it seems that only a bit of ingenuity (coating the diamond presses with aluminum) was the breakthrough needed, TMP could have achieved it in the 60s.

[mmartin798]

TMP warheads with metallic hydrogen instead of HE/TNT/RDX?

Ouch.

Now I am imagining the overwatch from a TMP sniper with an M82 using Raufoss Mk 211 rounds with metal hydrogen.

[ArmySGT.]

I was thinking of the irony of the White Phosphorous grenade having an effective radius greater than typical throwing range already.

[ArmySGT.]

World Wide Equipment Guide 2015

Volumes 1,2,3. Ground systems, ADA systems, Naval systems.

https://publicintelligence.net/us-army-worldwide-equipment-guide/