T2K Fortification

[Mohoender]

I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications? France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries? Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this?

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.

[headquarters]

I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications? France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries? Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this?

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.

My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course

[Mohoender]

My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course

Agree entirely. I would love to find some info on what cities still have some. I didn't know about Dubrovnik. That's one:) .

[copeab]

Worth remembering that CAS and massed artillery are mostly gone in 2000, so "obsolete" fortifications are once again effective.

[Marc]

Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, don’t lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of “Infanteria de Marina�. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, it’s a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Peñiscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed “The Cid�, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...;)

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html

[Adm.Lee]

A frined of mine once pointed out that enclosed shopping malls (the big ones) might make great forts. Some have their own power supplies, plenty of storage, and the fields of fire (parking lots) are already cleared!

[jester]

There are many forts in the US.

Remember up until after WWII we had active coastal artillery batteries that are fairly sizable.

In my Arctic Raiders Campaign, I had the players training at one such place that had been turned into a recreation area and park. But when the war broke out, it was militarized, and they moved troops into the underground galleries.

We also have a good number of Civil War Era Forts, some earlier forts mostly on the eastcoast.

An example of two on the west coast are, The Presidio and Alcatraz both build as early Spanish Forts.

Here are some links to some of the forts we hace localy:

http://www.cdsg.org/HDCRdata/stevensx.htm

http://www.ftmac.org/index.htm

The above was my playground after dark, especialy the portions that where no longer used and closed :)

http://www.laokay.com/TheGunBatteriesofSanPedro.htm

And then they also had Nike Zues Missile Silos:

These are all over the Los Angeles area as well as the country.

http://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm

Further, after BRAC, the Base Realignment and Closure of the 90s and early 2000s, there are a good number of large and small bases and facilities that are dormant, and would be still standing in the 2013 Twilight War.



And then, you also have the ability to turn so many places into forts. A ski lodge that's primary access is via a cable car or a narrow trail up a steep slope. I know of three places within an hour of me where this would be the problem.


Isolated communities on penninsulas and islands would be an easy place to defend.

LARGE Buildings would be good, like a Hospital, or even large building groups that one finds in larger cities, where several tall buildings surround a general courtyard.

those are just some ideas off the top of my head.

[headquarters]

Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, don’t lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of “Infanteria de Marina�. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, it’s a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Peñiscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed “The Cid�, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...;)

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html

The 60 hr leave is how I got see Dubrovnik too! ( SFOR I&II) .We drove down from Modrica through the mountains ( dont see how they could invade rough there ) and there it was - the most beautiful city I have seen so far . My favourite spot is rthe bar called "cold drinks" :) thats nestled on the cliffs outside the wall on the sea side -where th elocal bravos dive of th e30 foot cliff and sneer at us tourists that dont dare ..(hehe croats..such children).

Any ways - I agree with you -beautiful gem of the mediterranean .
and that walled cities are once again more powerful in the t2k world .

And that Europe is Europe :)

Norway have little in the way of fortifications,it was poor up until 50 years ago , and in the old days most were built from wood which is plentiful here.

Sad - I love fortificatons .

there are a few though -this one is my favourite :

http://www.nasjonalefestningsverk.no/fredriksten/Nyheter/1085775838.05

but there are several other cool ones there too. ( I see they have omitted the fort in my old town..goverment bastards always trying to hold the South Province down... ;)

And after all - what is a campaign without a good castle ,ey ?

[Targan]

There are fortified gun emplacements dating back to early last century on Rottnest Island off Perth, the city where I live. They were built as coastal defences for sinking enemy ships and there are extensive tunnels linking the emplacements to each other and to magazines, cut right into the limestone of the island. Unfortunately Rottnest has no fresh water and annual rainfall around Perth is pretty unreliable so any military presence out there would need resupply from the mainland.

Rottnest was named by Dutch explorers (it means Rats Nest) after the quokkas that live there. Quokkas look like itty bitty fat kangaroos about a foot high with bald tails and are incredibly cute and friendly.

[Mohoender]

Now I have some times and here are some exemples for France. You'll find several coastal forts such as the one in Antibes: the "Fort Carré". Some will be found inland also and several fort from WWI surrender Paris.

Carcassone is a good exemple but several other cities (smaller cities for the most part) will have citadels or fortified harbor such as St Malo.

I also put a view of Carcassone and one from two castles

[ChalkLine]

Vauban era to Brialmont era fortifications make excellent T2k fortresses.

The cannon of the era had a range similar to modern assault rifles, and the design of the fortresses make the attacker subject at every turn to flanking fire from a weapon with this range. A few mortars and GPMGs for direct fire and fortifications such as this are near impregnable.

[chico20854]

For my fellow SFOR/IFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia, if you were in the NORDPOL AO you may remember the Vranduk fortress on the way from Doboj to Zenica (2 of the larger shitholes in that accursed land):

http://medam-photogarden.blogspot.com/2008/07/vranduk-fortress.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reHpjSGZQPg
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/pb/57b99/

[Marc]

For my fellow SFOR/IFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia, if you were in the NORDPOL AO you may remember the Vranduk fortress on the way from Doboj to Zenica (2 of the larger shitholes in that accursed land):

http://medam-photogarden.blogspot.com/2008/07/vranduk-fortress.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reHpjSGZQPg
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/pb/57b99/

I was based around Trebinje area, in the SE, so I've never been near those fortifications. I remember to have seen a pair of little fortified structures nearby, possibly ottoman. Sadly it was not the more appropriate moment for a visit and I must recognize that my historical curiosity was still in start-up phase.

Anyway, It has been a nice surprise to meet here more members of the IFOR/SFOR forces. Best regards, people.:)

[jester]

What about a fort, or a hidden gun emplacement akin to a mountain top tunnel fortress similiar to the emplacements from "Guns of Navarone" And now I am thinking of a campaign based along those lines, akin to Eagles Dare and Guns of Navarone, a isolated mountain top fortress, with somekind of long range weapons, maybe heacy 203mm mortars or howitzers maybe a few chemical rounds. A fortress that is built into a flat topped mountain with several mine entrances that are now turned into gun emplacements. The inside was mined out maybe there is still some mineral of whatever you choose to have for the evil band who have taken residence and turned the once working/abandoned mine into a mountain fortress.

There is only 1 long narrow winding road up to the top of the mountain and it passes the several entrances that are fortified.

The large guns control the region for 20 miles in any direction, which includes farmland, and a major river and transportation route. And the Colonel who commands the mountain fortress now exacts tribute from the city that is on the river, the community at the base of the mountain where many of the miners and support personel lived and the farmlands around.

The PCs mission is to infiltrate the mountain and destroy the hold the fort and evil colonel have over the entire region.

<Sorry for stealling the thread, the idea came with me and I had to put it to papper before it was lost>

Now I must work on this idea and expand the campaign some more.

[Targan]

Nice adventure idea Jester. Unfortunately in my campaign or, say, Headquarters' the most likely end result would be that the fortress continues being used to dominate the surrounding communities, only the people in charge would change. It must be nice for those of you GMs whose players like playing the good guys.

[Raellus]

Although not as large or impressive as the fortifications that ya'll have already listed, there are still a few left-over late WWII-era German fortifications in Poland.

It'd be kind of cool for a party of PCs to come across a Panther tank turret emplaced in a reinforced concrete revetment.

[jester]

Although not as large or impressive as the fortifications that ya'll have already listed, there are still a few left-over late WWII-era German fortifications in Poland.

It'd be kind of cool for a party of PCs to come across a Panther tank turret emplaced in a reinforced concrete revetment.


There are several articles of German and Russian tanks being pulled out of ponds and swamps and bogs, and then being restored. Which is cool since the oxygen content is so low in many of these places and it is so cold they do not deteriorate as well as in other waters. A group in N. Cali found one that was pulled from a river or pond in Latvia I beleive, it was a Panther, they returned it to N. Cal and they rebuilt the thing bringing it to working order.

Then the group who rebuilt the vehicle did research as to why the vehicle was abandoned, I knew the answer since it was SOP, what is funny is they guessed but had no answer, until one or two went to the village near where the vehicle was salvaged and they told him. So, when in doubt ask the locals!

The vehicle got bogged down crossing the river so the Germans put a demolition charge in the vehicle, which was standard to ensure the Russians who were advancing couldn't use it.

Hmmm, that could be incorporated easy enough into a campaign, a small but skilled group amases a good amount of armored vehicles that had been abandoned in rivers, swamps and lakes, repairing them.

Or, there is a mystery around and no one knows what or why, but it is also hush hush, but the villagers all know, just no one bothers to ask them. Kinda like the 2nd Ed rules, with the part about, "Ah you mean Jones, the spy." ;)

[headquarters]

Nice adventure idea Jester. Unfortunately in my campaign or, say, Headquarters' the most likely end result would be that the fortress continues being used to dominate the surrounding communities, only the people in charge would change. It must be nice for those of you GMs whose players like playing the good guys.


Yep. But maybe a few chem rounds first to show the locals that the new boss is business like..

[bigehauser]

There were four main "systems" of forts throughout US history.

3 systems, and a 4th special type system that dealt more with ordnance being employed from hardened positions, i.e. not the shape of a typical truncated hexagonal fort with traditional walls, bastions, etc, but instead reinforced singular or grouped gun positions. Fort De Soto is a good example.

1st System was what we see in the frontier area of like say Florida, etc. Dug outs with wood from trees reinforcing the positions.

2nd System was what places like the 1st system showed, but had incorporated stone/concrete, and had employed cannons and similar ordnance at strategic points of the forts.

3rd System were the culmination of the fort systems of America, these being most all part of an intricate coastal defense system that lasted until humanity had begun to mass produce intercontinental aircraft, thus making these forts obsolete. A good group of Florida forts to study are Castillo De San Marcos, Fort Clinch, Fort Barrancas, Fort Morgan, and for a late 3rd System/Early 4th System example, Fort De Soto in my home of Pinellas County.

The 4th System had come about during a rapidly developing arms era of the early 20th Century just as aircraft had come into play. It had new ideas put into play, such as the use of extremely heavy "disappearing" guns in lieu of casemate, or wall top mounted howitzers or coastal guns. Anti Aircraft Artillery had become a factor as air power began to trump the paramount use large fleets of dreadnought ships, and other coast threatening vessels.

By the end of WWII, we can see that all the used forts had become obsolescent, and slowly became mere reminders of a way war was once waged.

[ChalkLine]

I recommend 'The History of Fortification (http://www.amazon.com/History-Fortification-Ian-Hogg/dp/0312378521)' Ian V Hogg*

A brilliant read that provides a fantastic overview of fortification with an emphasis on the period of Vauban to WW1.

(*who died a few years ago! What a bummer, I always wanted to meet the man)

[pmulcahy11b]

It's a bit of an exotic location for T2K...but basically all over Oahu in Hawaii, you'll find abandoned blockhouses and pillboxes built before and during World War 2. Many are still in good shape, though overgrown with vegetation. Another interesting location would be Ulupau Crater on Kaneohe MCAS; it's the rifle range for the island, and is to an extent honeycombed with rooms and corridors (and you find even find some ammo!). On the other side of the island at Mokapu Point, there is an abandoned Nike site; I never had the chance to go see for myself, but it's supposed to have a decent array of blockhouses, old buildings, and underground rooms and corridors.

[pmulcahy11b]

I recommend 'The History of Fortification (http://www.amazon.com/History-Fortification-Ian-Hogg/dp/0312378521)' Ian V Hogg*

A brilliant read that provides a fantastic overview of fortification with an emphasis on the period of Vauban to WW1.

(*who died a few years ago! What a bummer, I always wanted to meet the man)

Damn, no wonder I haven't seen any new books from him at Barnes & Noble lately!

[jester]

It's a bit of an exotic location for T2K...but basically all over Oahu in Hawaii, you'll find abandoned blockhouses and pillboxes built before and during World War 2. Many are still in good shape, though overgrown with vegetation. Another interesting location would be Ulupau Crater on Kaneohe MCAS; it's the rifle range for the island, and is to an extent honeycombed with rooms and corridors (and you find even find some ammo!). On the other side of the island at Mokapu Point, there is an abandoned Nike site; I never had the chance to go see for myself, but it's supposed to have a decent array of blockhouses, old buildings, and underground rooms and corridors.


They are there.

One of my links was to a nike site, they were pretty universal.

You have 1 command site in the area and a dozen or so satelight sites. Like the one at Whites Point was the comand center for all of the ones from Ventura, Los Angeles and Orange Counties which had about a dozen.

Each site had an underground silo, elevator venhilators and then a comand center. Some of the facilities had two elevators, each elevator was about the size of a semi trailer if i recall right.

Most topside facilities had a place for the personel to stay, a mess facility, a admin center, a guard post or two, some had firestations and missile asssembly areas and kennels as well. The one we used had three primary buildings.

[ChalkLine]

Fort Scratchley (http://www.fortscratchley.org.au/index_2.htm) in Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia is a victorian era coastal battery with some nice underground galleries. It's not too big to defend, PCs could manage it.

Go to the link above, there is ground plans of the fort. If you don't want to use the fort as a coastal battery, just site it on a bluff looking towards the probable direction of attack. It's international design makes it perfect for anywhere in the world and it is small enough to to be overlooked on many maps.

[ChalkLine]

Fort Scratchley (http://www.fortscratchley.org.au/index_2.htm) in Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia is a victorian era coastal battery with some nice underground galleries. It's not too big to defend, PCs could manage it.

Go to the link above, there is ground plans of the fort. If you don't want to use the fort as a coastal battery, just site it on a bluff looking towards the probable direction of attack. It's international design makes it perfect for anywhere in the world and it is small enough to to be overlooked on many maps.

I'd just like to add that this battery makes an ideal base for riverine or sea-going PCs.

[chico20854]

It's a bit of an exotic location for T2K...but basically all over Oahu in Hawaii, you'll find abandoned blockhouses and pillboxes built before and during World War 2. Many are still in good shape, though overgrown with vegetation. Another interesting location would be Ulupau Crater on Kaneohe MCAS; it's the rifle range for the island, and is to an extent honeycombed with rooms and corridors (and you find even find some ammo!). On the other side of the island at Mokapu Point, there is an abandoned Nike site; I never had the chance to go see for myself, but it's supposed to have a decent array of blockhouses, old buildings, and underground rooms and corridors.

Post-TDM, we (in the DC group) have proposed moving PACOM HQ to K-Bay. There is a large airfield, housing, ammo dumps, a pier, radar station, intercept/signal station and a mountain honeycombed with fortifications. The mountain was outfitted during 1942-4 as a coastal artillery position, equipped with the heavy guns salvaged off the USS Arizona from the bottom of Pearl Harbor. The positions are still there (the guns are not) and probably have extensive tunnels to support them. The prevailing winds are from the north, assuring that any fallout from the strikes on Honolulu don't effect the post. And the only landside access to the post is over a pair of causeways from the main part of the island. Ideal, IMHO...

[pmulcahy11b]

Post-TDM, we (in the DC group) have proposed moving PACOM HQ to K-Bay. There is a large airfield, housing, ammo dumps, a pier, radar station, intercept/signal station and a mountain honeycombed with fortifications. The mountain was outfitted during 1942-4 as a coastal artillery position, equipped with the heavy guns salvaged off the USS Arizona from the bottom of Pearl Harbor. The positions are still there (the guns are not) and probably have extensive tunnels to support them. The prevailing winds are from the north, assuring that any fallout from the strikes on Honolulu don't effect the post. And the only landside access to the post is over a pair of causeways from the main part of the island. Ideal, IMHO...

Actually, Kaneohe has a Back Gate (also called the Pali Gate, since it faces the Pali Outlook). This does not connect via causeway, though you do go through a winding mountain highway to get to it.

[jester]

Actually, Kaneohe has a Back Gate (also called the Pali Gate, since it faces the Pali Outlook). This does not connect via causeway, though you do go through a winding mountain highway to get to it.

Actualy Paul there is a causeway.

Once you enter the base after comming through the neighborhood in Kailua, ocean and beach on one side, Nuapia Ponds on the other. Just like the maingate.

And the base has other things,

1.) It has the crater near the rifle range filled with bunkers and what not, but also KT as well which sits in the center of the Island.

And then of course they have a few islands small ones but islands, one in the center of Kaneohie and another on the otherside we called "Rabbit Island"

And the Nuapia pond used to be the Hawaiian Royal Families private fishing pond, although now it is more marsh that stinks to high heaven.

As for the Dock, they used to have LSTs pull up and people sailed away on deplopyment that way. It isn't that big a dock as it has limited capacity but it could do the job for one or two ships.

The airfeild, well one issue is it faces the ocean on either end so that could pose a problem if you have any issues with aircraft. It can handle C-131s mind you, and I oftten wondered if one central street could do the job as it bisected the base and was much longer.

Another protector from radiation is the Pali mountain range bisects the island so there is the tallest point of mountains on the island seperating the base from Honolulu and Pearl which again is seperated by hills.

[pmulcahy11b]

Actualy Paul there is a causeway.

Oops, left out a word. It should have read, "Actually, Kaneohe also has a Back Gate..."

Amazing how leaving out one word can screw up what one is trying to say. :(

[Raellus]

Has anyone seen the Israeli film, Beufort [sic]? I haven't seen it yet but it's about an Israeli unit occupying a Crusader castle in Lebanon during the '90s. It's on my Netflix list.

Seems like it could provide some interesting flavor or scenario ideas for fortifications in T2K.

[Marc]

Bon dia!

Mmmmm... no previous idea about the existence of the film, but I've searched in the Wikipedia after your post and it seems it could be interesting. The correct title is Beaufort and is directed by an IDF veteran.

Thanks for the suggestion. This post remembers me that I still have, in my hard drive, another film to see: The Goods must be crazy. I think it was suggested by Kato.

[kato13]

This post remembers me that I still have, in my hard drive, another film to see: The Gods must be crazy. I think it was suggested by Kato.

Just so everyone knows this movie has NOTHING to do with post Apoc. It is a pretty silly comedy about how outside technology can disrupt an Aboriginal clan. There is a tyrannical despot in the story but I am not sure if any one could pull gaming ideas from this movie.

[AcesandEights]

Just so everyone knows this movie has NOTHING to do with post Apoc. It is a pretty silly comedy about how outside technology can disrupt an Aboriginal clan.

Yup. An instant classic, as well! I'd heard there was a sequel done back in the late 80s or early 90s.

There is a tyrannical despot in the story but I am not sure if any one could pull gaming ideas from this movie.

If only all marauder leaders came from such a mold!

[Panther Al]

This is a bit of thread necromancy but I noted a post by chalkline about Vauban style fortification making good T2K forts. This is something I've always been into and done a number of papers on back in the school days so I would like to point out that he is right only to a point: against small arms and light automatic cannon you couldn't ask for better, but the real reason this style of fortification died wasn't air power or modern indirect fire guns, it was the advent of rifle cannon. The heavy hitting and accurate fire was just the ticket to destroying specific sections of wall whereas before it was impossible to focus the cannon fire tight enough to so. Roll up to one today with anything 40mm in size and you'll go through faster that a corporal running to his first NCO call.

Have to admit though that I always wanted to play a game where my character can build up such a place.

[pmulcahy11b]

Thanks for the suggestion. This post remembers me that I still have, in my hard drive, another film to see: The Goods must be crazy. I think it was suggested by Kato.

The Goods Must Be Crazy: This is a movie about a T2K village getting a bunch of trade goods infested with rabid mice. Pretty funny, if you ask me.:p

Or...the hilarity that ensues when an insane couple named the Goods move in next door.

[pmulcahy11b]

Yup. An instant classic, as well! I'd heard there was a sequel done back in the late 80s or early 90s.



If only all marauder leaders came from such a mold!

I always wanted them to do a sequel where, after he threw it off the edge of the world, it came down and hit some other primitive culture...

[bigehauser]

This is a bit of thread necromancy but I noted a post by chalkline about Vauban style fortification making good T2K forts. This is something I've always been into and done a number of papers on back in the school days so I would like to point out that he is right only to a point: against small arms and light automatic cannon you couldn't ask for better, but the real reason this style of fortification died wasn't air power or modern indirect fire guns, it was the advent of rifle cannon. The heavy hitting and accurate fire was just the ticket to destroying specific sections of wall whereas before it was impossible to focus the cannon fire tight enough to so. Roll up to one today with anything 40mm in size and you'll go through faster that a corporal running to his first NCO call.

Have to admit though that I always wanted to play a game where my character can build up such a place.

Tybee Island, South Carolina is a place people should visit to see evidence of one of the first, if not the first successful employment of rifled guns against a fortified emplacement. Fort Pulaski was taken because of Union Captain Quincy A. Gillmore's decisive exploitation of a new, experimental rifled cannon battery.

http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel-ta-fort-pulaski-national-monument-georgia-south-georgia-islands-sidwcmdev_068099.html

Another fortress I have some knowledge about is the Brest Fortress in the city of Brest, Belarus. I think a good touch to a scenario or story taking place there would be to have eerie, or horror elements to the story whereby the characters hear, see, or encounter horrific things of the past from WWII when the Germans placed siege upon the fortress and the trapped garrison of troops within it.

As far as the film Beaufort. I own the book, and am watching the film on Netflix right now.

[Panther Al]

Tybee Island, South Carolina is a place people should visit to see evidence of one of the first, if not the first successful employment of rifled guns against a fortified emplacement. Fort Pulaski was taken because of Union Captain Quincy A. Gillmore's decisive exploitation of a new, experimental rifled cannon battery.

http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel-ta-fort-pulaski-national-monument-georgia-south-georgia-islands-sidwcmdev_068099.html

Another fortress I have some knowledge about is the Brest Fortress in the city of Brest, Belarus. I think a good touch to a scenario or story taking place there would be to have eerie, or horror elements to the story whereby the characters hear, see, or encounter horrific things of the past from WWII when the Germans placed siege upon the fortress and the trapped garrison of troops within it.

As far as the film Beaufort. I own the book, and am watching the film on Netflix right now.

Pulaski is the perfect example, and the one I had in mind. While rifled guns was used earlier it this that convinced the world that they was the thing to bet on. Been to it lots of times and I encurage others to go. Pulaski's claim is based on location: it was impossible to mine, out of range from any land based cannon of the day, and in perfect location to guard the approaches to the city. It was only the use of rifled guns, and the fact that only rifled guns had the range and accuracy (by the days standards) that allowed the DY's to take the place. At that point no one doubted that the day of the smoothbore was done.

[dragoon500ly]

This is a bit of thread necromancy but I noted a post by chalkline about Vauban style fortification making good T2K forts. This is something I've always been into and done a number of papers on back in the school days so I would like to point out that he is right only to a point: against small arms and light automatic cannon you couldn't ask for better, but the real reason this style of fortification died wasn't air power or modern indirect fire guns, it was the advent of rifle cannon. The heavy hitting and accurate fire was just the ticket to destroying specific sections of wall whereas before it was impossible to focus the cannon fire tight enough to so. Roll up to one today with anything 40mm in size and you'll go through faster that a corporal running to his first NCO call.

Have to admit though that I always wanted to play a game where my character can build up such a place.

A lot of people don't remember the epic stand of the 2nd Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment, 28th Infantry Division, elements of B Company, 707th Tank Battalion and elements of B Company, 2nd Tank Battalion, 9th Armored Division at the town of Clervaux, Belgium...December 17-18, 1944. While the Americans fought house to house against elements of the 2nd Panzer Division and were mostly either destroyed or forced to retreat by 1825 hours on the 17th, elements of the 2nd Battalion held the chateau for another day, blocking traffic for another 24 hours, allowing time for CCR of the 9th Armored (and that bunch from the airborne mafia whose name escapes me at the moment...:D) to get into position to block the drive towards Bastogne.

[Dog 6]

A lot of people don't remember the epic stand of the 2nd Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment, 28th Infantry Division, elements of B Company, 707th Tank Battalion and elements of B Company, 2nd Tank Battalion, 9th Armored Division at the town of Clervaux, Belgium...December 17-18, 1944. While the Americans fought house to house against elements of the 2nd Panzer Division and were mostly either destroyed or forced to retreat by 1825 hours on the 17th, elements of the 2nd Battalion held the chateau for another day, blocking traffic for another 24 hours, allowing time for CCR of the 9th Armored (and that bunch from the airborne mafia whose name escapes me at the moment...:D) to get into position to block the drive towards Bastogne.

or the last stand of the 106th

[Dog 6]

A lot of people don't remember the epic stand of the 2nd Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment, 28th Infantry Division, elements of B Company, 707th Tank Battalion and elements of B Company, 2nd Tank Battalion, 9th Armored Division at the town of Clervaux, Belgium...December 17-18, 1944. While the Americans fought house to house against elements of the 2nd Panzer Division and were mostly either destroyed or forced to retreat by 1825 hours on the 17th, elements of the 2nd Battalion held the chateau for another day, blocking traffic for another 24 hours, allowing time for CCR of the 9th Armored (and that bunch from the airborne mafia whose name escapes me at the moment...:D) to get into position to block the drive towards Bastogne.

or the last stand of the 106th Division. 110 men 12 .50 cals and 1 M-8

[dragoon500ly]

or the last stand of the 106th

The fights that the 28th and 106th Infantry Divisions, 9th Armored Division, 14th Cavalry Group and their attached units are seldom heard about in any discussion of the Battle of the Bulge. Most people fix on the 101st Airborne at Bastogne as the turning point. Not discounting the bravery of the airborne; but the true, unsung heros of the Bulge were the infantrymen, tankers and artillerymen who held the line for the first, crucial 48-hours.

One of the critical fights was for the twin villages of Krinkelt-Rocherath, were the 3rd Battalion, 393rd Infantry, 99th Infantry Division and 3rd Battalion, 23rd Infantry, 2nd Infantry Division fought fought major elements of of the 277th Volksgrenadier Division and the 12th SS Panzer Division. To give an idea of the scale of the fighting, the 3rd Battalion, 23rd Infantry went into the battle for the twin villages with a strength of 600 men, 217 men survived to rejoin the US lines.

The defense of the twin villages brought precious time for the remainder of the 2nd Infantry Division and for the 1st Infantry Division to build up a defensive line along Elsenborn Ridge that held the northern shoulder of the Bulge.

For the Germans, the twin villages were just as bloody, the 277th Volksgrenadier suffered the loss of all of its battalion commanders, 80% of its company commanders and the majority of its NCOs (the poor training and poor quality of the new troops required its leadership to lead from the front) as well as the loss of an estimated 1,500 soldiers. The 12th SS Panzer suffered the loss of about 60 AFVs in the fight and its 25th SS Panzergrenadier Regiment suffered 60% losses.

[helbent4]

Group,

While remnant fortifications could be used, these are mainly a matter of research for interested GMs.

I'm reminded of (I think) some wealthy industrialist in Poland living with his family in a castle near Krakow with a small security force. Not a warlord or anything like that, just surviving. So old castles can be used as fortifications by military units, refugees and other survivors.

The Twilight war didn't come out of nowhere, war broke out after years of hostilities and tensions. Therefore, shelters and depots like the one in Allegheny Uprising would be fairly common. There would not just be leftover Cold War bomb shelters and installations (in various states of rehabilitation) but newly-built ones if there was a crash program to enhance government and military survivability in case of nuclear attack.

Further, these hardened facilities (government/military communication centres, command posts, depots, etc.) not just in the CONUS but all throughout Europe in both NATO and PacWar territory.

Further, modern fortifications are not difficult to construct. They mostly require normal construction equipment and common materials that could easily be commandeered by the military/government. Now that mobile warfare has basically stopped, many cantonments and former cantonments might have permanent fortifications constructed. Anything from a series of isolated concrete bunkers and pill boxes to interlocking defensive positions to a full blown permanent fortress where none existed before the war. Again, these would litter Europe and North America.

Tony

[Panther Al]

Absolutely agree helbent4, my focus in my comment was on the older stuff floating about. There is a reason all the modern facilities are buried by and large, or at least masked so direct fire can't hit them.

My personal fave fortification in the "modern" era?
The swedish KARIN. How can you not love a fully automatic, watercooled, 120mm cannon that has a range of 27km?

[Legbreaker]

The swedish KARIN. How can you not love a fully automatic, watercooled, 120mm cannon that has a range of 27km?

Unless your weapon has a range of 27.5km... ;)

[helbent4]

My personal fave fortification in the "modern" era?
The swedish KARIN. How can you not love a fully automatic, watercooled, 120mm cannon that has a range of 27km?

Al,

That would be a "hard rain" indeed!

Fortifications dating back to WWII and beyond in history litter Europe and to a lesser degree, North America. it's almost worth just saying using google to ferret them out if your campaign is in that area!

Fascinating article on interwar (post-WWI) German fortifications in what is now Poland (built to defend Germany from Polish attack in case of war with France):

http://www.holidayapartmentpoland.com/underground_bunkers_poland.htm

Castles near Krakow detailed in "Free City" and "White Eagle" include the Stronghold of Ojcow (abandoned) and Pieskowa Skala (occupied by the self-styled "baron of Ojcow", an industrialist and recluse).

List of castles near Kracow:

http://www.krakow-info.com/eagle.htm

I don't have a copy of "Castle by the Sea", and I think Twilight Encounters might have had castle floor plans, too.

Tony

[WallShadow]

A friend of mine ran a USA-based campaign local to South Central PA: during one scenario, we encountered an agricultural freehold that was fortified with pre-formed concrete silo wall arc-sections scavenged from a neighboring abandoned farm. Pretty handy, re-bar reinforced, easily maneuvered with a medium sized truck mounted crane. Plow some earth infront and brace behind it--voila!

[headquarters]

A friend of mine ran a USA-based campaign local to South Central PA: during one scenario, we encountered an agricultural freehold that was fortified with pre-formed concrete silo wall arc-sections scavenged from a neighboring abandoned farm. Pretty handy, re-bar reinforced, easily maneuvered with a medium sized truck mounted crane. Plow some earth infront and brace behind it--voila!
Therese is a co. In Norway tatt used to make culverts and cisterns etc that also sell sections of these reinforced etc as pre made firing positivismen and shelters for 1-4 troops. Dig hole and haule piece in. Fill in drit.done.

[WallShadow]

In Ruins of Warsaw, rubble walls and elevated gun emplacements are de rigeur for field-expedient fortifications.
A question regarding this: for "blocked rubble" hexes, are they already considered as a rubble hex wall, or does one still have to apply more rubble to it to gain that defensive advantage? And as for being blocked, just how "blocked" is it? What negative movement modifiers are applied to any unit attempting to traverse the hexside? Can they manage it at all? No vehicular traffic? I can see how judicious use of isolated gun platforms in a sea of rubble could close off the non-blocked rubble hex paths and really cause the Baron a headache or two, providing the blocked hexes are impassable.

Now, if you've marked and rigged for remote detonation any UXB's discovered in the rubble, these would be an extra pain in the Baron's backside.

[Cdnwolf]

http://www.nps.gov/features/saju/001/virtual/

Forts of the Caribbean can give good examples of layouts

[Apache6]

An interesting thing about 2tK is that every type of fortification can be encountered. What resources you have to make them are important (barbed wire, backhoe loader, ISO containers, precast concrete sewer pipes...).

- The weapons available to your enemies, how effective they are with them, and how much ammo they have are all relative.

- Barbed wire is very common in hardware stores in US, and with the lack of heavy weapons. WWI trenches (dug by modern Heavy Equipment?) and supported by barbed wire could be very effective, just check history of former Yugaslavian Wars.

- ISO containers (the standardized shipping containers used to move stuff) have been used a lot to create barriers. Against people armed only with small arms, they could make effective forts very quickly. Against a force that you outgun, they would be effective castles.

- Already mentioned, but armored vehicels that dont run, or have no fuel, make effective pillboxes. So do sewer lines. Park a nonfunctional truck (drained fuel) over a manhole cover and you can build a very effective MG nest in plain sight, and have both effective fields of fire down the street, and covered approaches.

- Land mines are not hard to fabricate, they were first used in American Civil War and simple ones are easy to make. Can be set as mines to detonate when driven over or stepped on, or 'command detonated' either by wire or radio control, just like IEDs. Can also be set as boobytraps (again, this was very common in former Yugaslavia. "Minefield' signs may mark actual mines, or dummy minefields.

- bridges over major rivers, are very likely to be fortified on one or both ends.

- Road blocks and checkpoints, can have a great amount of variation. Wrecked vehciles and boobytraps on roads and bridges are easy. Dropped trees covered by sniper fire are effective. Can be supported/reinforced by mortars pre-registered on targets. This would delay many enemies to allow reinforcements to move or militia to muster...

- I'd expect most protected area would have some level of defense in depth. Out posts and/or opservation/listening posts, on the outskirts to provide early warning. Road-blocks and checkpoints securing key terrain and blocking avenues of approach. A mobile reserve force, containing the best combat power available and a heavily fortified redoubt, to which the population can withdraw.

- A common and relatively labor effective redoubt would be a couple lines of trenches, surrounded by barbed wire fences at 400 and 200 meters (in good times used to graze cows). These could protect several heavy industrial buildings or maybe a brick high school or some such...

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/starfort.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/fortifications.jpg

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/earthenring.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/fortified_house_web.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/vaubanfort.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/fortified-farms-evolved-about-2000-years-ago-wexford.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/romanmilefort.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/ScottishDoon.jpg

[Panther Al]

Ah, Vaubon style fortifications. (The ones that are all star shaped)

The good:

In the TW2K Verse where heavy (as in cannon) weapons are scarce and rifle calibre stuff is about as heavy as it gets by and large, its perfect. They was designed to defeat infantry assaults without breaking a sweat. Its when you bring direct HE fire things fall apart. Which is the bad.

For a throw up the dirt and hide behind it sort, It serves. Add in mines and wire, muuuuuch better. Earth takes HE reasonably well. Depend on masonry construction however and its not too good.

[headquarters]

Ah, Vaubon style fortifications. (The ones that are all star shaped)

The good:

In the TW2K Verse where heavy (as in cannon) weapons are scarce and rifle calibre stuff is about as heavy as it gets by and large, its perfect. They was designed to defeat infantry assaults without breaking a sweat. Its when you bring direct HE fire things fall apart. Which is the bad.

For a throw up the dirt and hide behind it sort, It serves. Add in mines and wire, muuuuuch better. Earth takes HE reasonably well. Depend on masonry construction however and its not too good.

That its true - the masonry chip on HE impact and becomes shrapnel in iotself before it all crumbles and falls down in a smouldering heap. But bear in mind that thats after x number of impacts. Infantry portable mortars like 60s and 81s , AA automatic cannons, HMGs etc dont really cut it when it comes to bringing down sturdy masonry and concrete - as seen in Dubrovnik for instance. All the roofs went, and lots of peopl ekilled. But No breach. Also the "Håkons hall" in Bergen in 1944 - a German munitions ship blew up on the dock next to it. Untold number of tons of HE. 14th century walls still good.

Examples the one way - but there are of course the othr way too..

[ArmySGT.]

Masonry aka brick absorbs kinetic energy and turns to powder. It is stone and concrete that shatter and throws fragments.

[Panther Al]

Masonry aka brick absorbs kinetic energy and turns to powder. It is stone and concrete that shatter and throws fragments.

To a point yes: But even then, large fragments will fly out.

Its not the fragmentation though that makes masonry fortifications a bad idea - unless you put a lot of rebar and the like in it - Its the fact that unlike earth, its relatively brittle. The 'shatter' effect of direct fire HE on stone/concrete/brick is amazing. But, Earth is more, for lack of a better word, flexible. Of course, you have to take the fact that foot for foot it isn't as good as masonry into consideration when deciding how thick and how high it goes, but it is in the modern world, overall better than old fashioned works.

Its the addition of Rebar - and lots of it - that changes the equation once again. Now we have a 'binder' of sorts that, although HE will shatter the concrete, the rebar density is to the point that it will keep the wall in shape for far longer. Tiergarten is a very good example: it was so laced with rebar and such that it survived everything the soviets could through at it - and like every other flak tower of berlin, none was taken by storm. Even direct fire at almost point blank range by 203mm artillery pieces didn't faze them.

[ArmySGT.]

To a point yes: But even then, large fragments will fly out.

Its not the fragmentation though that makes masonry fortifications a bad idea - unless you put a lot of rebar and the like in it - Its the fact that unlike earth, its relatively brittle. The 'shatter' effect of direct fire HE on stone/concrete/brick is amazing. But, Earth is more, for lack of a better word, flexible. Of course, you have to take the fact that foot for foot it isn't as good as masonry into consideration when deciding how thick and how high it goes, but it is in the modern world, overall better than old fashioned works.

Its the addition of Rebar - and lots of it - that changes the equation once again. Now we have a 'binder' of sorts that, although HE will shatter the concrete, the rebar density is to the point that it will keep the wall in shape for far longer. Tiergarten is a very good example: it was so laced with rebar and such that it survived everything the soviets could through at it - and like every other flak tower of berlin, none was taken by storm. Even direct fire at almost point blank range by 203mm artillery pieces didn't faze them.

The Flak towers in Berlin are reinforced concrete. The Pre-WW1 forts were masonry or masonry over stone/concrete because the brick essentially absorbed a bullet or a shell burrowed into it. No ricochets.

Building with masonry was and is more expensive than pouring concrete.

Even with explosives, when an explosive detonates the shearing forces turn the surrounding brick facade into a crater and the path of least resistance is away from the wall.

Enjoy this video by the U.S Marine Corps. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6760530260633420235

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I realize we're talking about basically 500 year old weaponry but one of the great things about building early forts in FL from Coquina rock is that cannonballs (and musket balls) had a tendency to just chunk right in and stop. On the surface.

[headquarters]

I realize we're talking about basically 500 year old weaponry but one of the great things about building early forts in FL from Coquina rock is that cannonballs (and musket balls) had a tendency to just chunk right in and stop. On the surface.

In my student days I lived in Bergen where you had a church tower that still had English cannon balls lodged in plain view from 180something when the Brits in dastardly and conniving manner subjected the fair and peaceloving Danish-Norwegian union to unlimited blockade and naval warfare with disasterous collateral damage results.

But back to the point - the cannon balls(s) lodged themselves in there.

Another thing - I saw mythbusters ( yes..they are a tv show and not scientists etc etc ) paint a brick wall with a prepping paint ( it was red) I dont know the English word for it - we call i t grunning. This greatly enhanced the walls AV regarding concussion damages as it where.

The advent of efficient artillery ended the days of the high walled fortifications in favour of more squat and in some cases earthen covered stone constructions.

But as larger military hierarchies with access to efficient artillery become rarer - the days of the walled fortification are coming back im humble o

But dedicated fortifications are not the only ones- a multistory reinforced- concrete building ( like a sturdy built housing complex) could with a few tweaks become an efficient stronghold. It has space, firing positions could be made and so on. It wouldnt do if the enemy has modern heavy artillery - but that is getting seldom in the T2K verse as I see it.

[rcaf_777]

It's a bit of an exotic location for T2K...but basically all over Oahu in Hawaii, you'll find abandoned blockhouses and pillboxes built before and during World War 2. Many are still in good shape, though overgrown with vegetation. Another interesting location would be Ulupau Crater on Kaneohe MCAS; it's the rifle range for the island, and is to an extent honeycombed with rooms and corridors (and you find even find some ammo!). On the other side of the island at Mokapu Point, there is an abandoned Nike site; I never had the chance to go see for myself, but it's supposed to have a decent array of blockhouses, old buildings, and underground rooms and corridors.

There is also a fair bit found on the East Coast of Canada, and few on west coast might have surrived as well, I know there are simular forts in the US eastern and wester coasts, Fort MacArthur in Calforina comes to mind.

On another note how about a fortification using old cars, apc tanks, ect, like the wagon circles of the old west.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I forget, did Hawaii get hit in 1.0?

[WallShadow]

http://alshamswiremesh.com/hesco.html

This type of item filled with large gravel, without the fabric liner, was being used to reinforce the faces of cuts (e.g. in streambeds, to resist erosion) back in the 80's or before. I recently saw the modern version up close and personal at the Carlisle, PA US Military History Institute (Army War College), which has numerous outside military displays of several time periods. This one was a modern display.

I think that the defenders of Sielce might be able to scrounge up some chain link fence to build the wire cages out of, lined with scraps of salvaged carpet, perhaps? A tripod swing arm with a block and tackle could be built to maneuver the filled gabions into place. Any guesses as to how many man hours each hexside of these would take to place--build cages, fill with chunks of rubble, wire lid on, hook up to crane, swing into place, secure with tie-wires.
It's like filling and placing giant sandbags, but you have to make the sandbags themselves.

[ArmySGT.]

This gem was on Fox today.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/08/13/12-awe-inspiring-american-castles/?intcmp=features

[WallShadow]

Reading, PA has Stokesay Castle, a sturdy stone structure restaurant, and just up the hill is the Pagoda Overlook both of which are somewhat secluded and have a limited access. The Pagoda is visible for miles especially when it is lighted up red at night. It would be a good observation post and handy to call in artillery fire from.

Out my way, a little further west of Harrisburg, there's the King's Gap State Park, which boasts an Environmental Education Center made from the stone villa built by a Cameron in the early 1900's. It sits nicely isolated at the top of thev Northern end of the Blue Ridge mountains and oversees a huge section of the Cumberland valley and it's northern opening--not much could move across it unnoticed by observers in the Villa. And just down the road, literally, is a State Fish Hatchery--ready-made protein and a resource to be guarded and husbanded.

[pmulcahy11b]

I forget, did Hawaii get hit in 1.0?

IIRC, Pearl, Hickam/Honolulu International, Ft Shafter, and Barbers Point took hits, but I don't remember what the yield was. I believe Kaneohe MCAS was missed -- either a mistake on the part of the designers, a deliberate miss on the part of the designers, or a miss by the Russians.

Pearl, Hickam AFB/Honolulu International, Ft Shafter and Barbers Point are pretty much clustered in a semicircle around Pearl Harbor (the bay, not the base), and it's less than 10 miles between Hickam on the east side and Barbers Point on the west. Pretty much mindless overkill...

[WallShadow]

IIRC, Pearl, Hickam/Honolulu International, Ft Shafter, and Barbers Point took hits, but I don't remember what the yield was. I believe Kaneohe MCAS was missed -- either a mistake on the part of the designers, a deliberate miss on the part of the designers, or a miss by the Russians.

Pearl, Hickam AFB/Honolulu International, Ft Shafter and Barbers Point are pretty much clustered in a semicircle around Pearl Harbor (the bay, not the base), and it's less than 10 miles between Hickam on the east side and Barbers Point on the west. Pretty much mindless overkill...

Yeah, but they didn't make the same mistake the Japanese made!;)

[bobcat]

while some would deem it a waste of valuable resources you can use an M113 as a gate. heck if ya dig big enough holes in the ground(a working bulldozer or massed labor) you can make a nice bunker complex from conexes, buses, or even a couple broke down APC's. you can even camouflage the entrances with a scrap village. a few huts with little in them wouldn't be looked at twice until your patrol gets wiped out from the hidden bunker system beneath.

[HorseSoldier]

I remember reading that the USMC did this with excessively battle damaged amtraks in Vietnam -- dug a hole, put the hull in, and then covered it back up except for an access tunnel to the back ramp. Ready made bunker requiring no more than some bulldozer time and minimal engineering manpower.

[WallShadow]

while some would deem it a waste of valuable resources you can use an M113 as a gate. heck if ya dig big enough holes in the ground(a working bulldozer or massed labor) you can make a nice bunker complex from conexes, buses, or even a couple broke down APC's. you can even camouflage the entrances with a scrap village. a few huts with little in them wouldn't be looked at twice until your patrol gets wiped out from the hidden bunker system beneath.

I don't have the link at hand but some group was making a bunker system here in the US out of stripped-out school-bus hulks lined up in a bull-dozed-out pit, then, after appropriate entrances and vents had been set up, buried in lots and lots of concrete.

[ArmySGT.]

I don't have the link at hand but some group was making a bunker system here in the US out of stripped-out school-bus hulks lined up in a bull-dozed-out pit, then, after appropriate entrances and vents had been set up, buried in lots and lots of concrete.

That's the Ark Two and it is in Ontario, Canada actually.

The floor plan is wacky. There are some really smart feature here and there though.

http://webpal.org/SAFE/aaaarktwo/index.htm

[WallShadow]

That's the Ark Two and it is in Ontario, Canada actually.

The floor plan is wacky. There are some really smart feature here and there though.

http://webpal.org/SAFE/aaaarktwo/index.htm

It just shows you what a REALLY GOOD interior decorator can do for a TEOTWAWKI mega-shelter!;)

[Raellus]

Castles became obsolete with the advent of effective gunpowder weapons during the Renaissance. Fortifications continued to play an important role in European warfare, from Vauban's 17th century star-shaped forts to the 20th century's Maginot Line. But as evidenced by the ignominious fate of the latter, large, fixed fortifications could be neutralized by modern firepower and mobility.

Largely as a result of shortages of combat aircraft, and large caliber shells for artillery and direct fire weapons, castles and other antique fortifications would once again become important strongholds/bases in the later days of the Twilight War. Castles would no longer be musty tourist attractions- they would regain a lot of their original importance, at least on a local level.

There a couple of castles mentioned in the original Poland modules, but Poland is plain lousy with them (there are dozens), many built by the Teutonic order. Europe is littered with medieval fortifications in various states of preservation. There are also numerous extant Vauban-style fortifications throughout Europe. On an interesting side note, that style is coming back into use today IRL.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35863/the-french-army-is-building-renaissance-style-fortresses-in-africa

(During the Vietnam War, both the French and the Americans relied on similar fortifications to help them control the surrounding territory. A few American Special Forces camps were laid out Vauban-style.)

In addition to castles (Bran Castle is believed to inspired Bram Stoker's Dracula novel), Romania has fortified churches.

In T2k, castles make great bases for warlords, OPFOR, and friendly forces. Castles could serve as an effective linchpin/central hub for a cantonment. I was so inspired by images of Malbork castle that I wrote a whole adventure module around it!

I'm hoping that this thread will be the place to discuss various fortifications, from general to specific, from big to small, all over the world, that could be relevant to T2k campaigns. Has your campaign ever featured castles or other old fortifications made new again? Were your PCs lucky enough to take control of their own castle? Feel free to post relevant pics as well.

[Olefin]

You may even see them make a comeback here in the US. There are a few old fortifications here in the US - Fort Monroe for instance comes to mind - that could be put back into use as well. Now depending on where the nukes hit at Norfolk that particular fort may be out of commission but there are others - Castle Williams on Governors Island in NYC for instance which in Armies of the Night is the base for the Harbor Rats.

[Vespers War]

The Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine would be useful. It protects the harbor, with the ocean-facing walls being 19 feet thick. As stone, it would be AV 10 or 11, but given coquina's semi-ductile nature and that it can absorb 2-4 times as much energy as sandstone (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40870-015-0035-1), it should probably be a bit higher. There's a well in the courtyard of the fort, which is 100 feet square. The dry moat could be flooded relatively easily. Its only normal entrance is a drawbridge with a barbacan on the opposite side. The parapet is 6 feet high and three feet thick, with 64 piercings for artillery. With around 40 feet of space on top of the walls, there's plenty of room to mount stuff. There are 32 rooms within the walls of the fort.

It's a bit close to the Sea Lord's territory in Jacksonville, but against your typical marauders it would be an incredibly tough nut to crack.

[mpipes]

There are quite a few half forgotten "fortresses" that would be available for use. A few Nike missile complexes were still relatively intact in 1997 plus quite a few bunkers at various costal sites or shutdown/abandoned military bases. Even some of the WW II Atlantic Wall fortifications might be able to be refurbished for use.

[bash]

I'm having no luck finding good pictures but expedient fortifications from the Euromaiden protests in Ukraine in 2014 were really interesting. That ones I think are most interesting for T2K are the tire walls. Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.

A person height wall (filled with soil) weighs tons so you're only going to knock it down with heavy weapons or vehicles. Even a single tire thick wall will stop most small arms, fragments, and block line of sight for attackers. Tires also burn with thick black sooty smoke so if you need to cover movement or escape you just burn down your walls.

Tires are also everywhere. They don't need to be in driveable shape to be used in a wall. A junk yard or tire dump is a nice defensive wall waiting to happen. Your cool castle wall took a SMAW and has a hole in it? Fill it in with old tires and dirt, it'll take another SMAW!

Structurally they're similar enough to HESCO barriers that whole defensive perimeters and internal cordons can be built out of them.

[B.T.]

Honestly, I'm not shure, if I stumbled across the following site because of a link in this forum. Nevertheless, Wawel is of some importance. They have a museum there and I think, the site gives quite some info.

https://wawel.krakow.pl/en

[Legbreaker]

Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.


On that note.... https://www.homedit.com/earthship-homes-made-of-recycled-tyres/

[Spartan-117]

In addition to tons of castles in Poland, there are some left over German bunker complexes.

http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/mgbunker_small.jpeg

These are pretty big files, but you can zoom in on MG bunker and Arty bunker for a layout and the writeup (in English and Polish) if you want more of an idea of the facilities in each.

http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/mgbunker.jpeg
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/bunker1.jpeg
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/bunker2.jpeg
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/bunker3.jpeg
http://harbinger.twilightwar.net/artybunker.jpeg

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm having no luck finding good pictures but expedient fortifications from the Euromaiden protests in Ukraine in 2014 were really interesting. That ones I think are most interesting for T2K are the tire walls. Really just soil/sand filled tires stacked as walls.

<snip>.

Regarding tyres, depending on the type you use, some of the larger sizes are incredibly resistant to rifle fire even without the soil filling. Even a steel-belted tyre from the family sedan can significantly slow down various projectiles such as fragments and bullets.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As for castles in Poland, some of the smaller ones can be found with what seem like cellars too small to be much use but they link to caves under the castle. I've explored a few where the caves had access to springs and some where the caves were large enough to easily accommodate dozens of people.
One smaller castle in particular was built onto a steep hill and the bottom of the main tower led into a cavern that was high enough to be separated into two storeys. and the entry into the cavern was wide enough for a medium sized truck or APC to pass (although you would have to enlarge the ground floor entry into the tower, but in the T2k setting, I'm sure nobody is going to mind that extra work for the benefit of hiding their vehicles in a large cavern!)

[ChalkLine]

Remarkably complex and scientific fortifications can be made with nothing more than muscle, spades, bill hooks and dirt. These produce gabions, the standby for fortification since the classical era.

https://9dfe2f2f-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/confedengineerlh/event-vision/with-pick--spade-2010-how-to-build-a-gabion/Fort-Sedgwick-001.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7crLrarnIeS-0LesgfhDHWzzLZV5sOLawr1JBooiX3LDTYmdZSZVRLvko2HXPD YazImHzaeeWRAkZevO_DpQFmGfjmtl7z99ovYhcktFHJTQDUXo pSXlJRa6O1HbnCWKw0KIBgIhXrm86eJS_XaY_yJ3bE0btQoR67 XpNj8InK9msiPJxI2wwY8RNrHL7qa_UxcXSTPj_q_A6o0IRHu6-RR9tBBiFTrYlARPsfbJGSgcX9I5Uas2hdE5muSRm3MCErGAr2f OXEEOckd5TjYuOIzckFWJJ99yAt9KSYDaN-5PqffBPQ157T3MwkIy_mEf4fyecfIV&attredirects=0

[Raellus]

Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming.

Anyone know when Hesco bastions were introduced? I know the principle's been around for ages (baskets filled with earth). They seem super common nowadays (as evidenced by the pics of the French troops filling/stacking them in the article linked in the OP), but I don't recall seeing the current iteration before around 2005 or thereabouts.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm sure somebody posted a file here some time back that gave game stats for turrets from obsolete tanks being used as trench fire support.
Can't remember the name but I'm sure this particular design was Soviet in origin so the game stats used a Soviet name
I think I saved it so I'll check my T2k folders, if I find it I'll post it in this thread.

[Vespers War]

Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming.

Anyone know when Hesco bastions were introduced? I know the principle's been around for ages (baskets filled with earth). They seem super common nowadays (as evidenced by the pics of the French troops filling/stacking them in the article linked in the OP), but I don't recall seeing the current iteration before around 2005 or thereabouts.

The company was formed in 1989 specifically to manufacture them, so sometime around then.

I'm sure somebody posted a file here some time back that gave game stats for turrets from obsolete tanks being used as trench fire support.
Can't remember the name but I'm sure this particular design was Soviet in origin so the game stats used a Soviet name
I think I saved it so I'll check my T2k folders, if I find it I'll post it in this thread.

Totschka. (https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5849)

[bash]

Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming.

Anyone know when Hesco bastions were introduced? I know the principle's been around for ages (baskets filled with earth). They seem super common nowadays (as evidenced by the pics of the French troops filling/stacking them in the article linked in the OP), but I don't recall seeing the current iteration before around 2005 or thereabouts.

HESCO barriers were originally designed for flood control and such. They were used IRL in Bosnia (pg. 6) (https://web.archive.org/web/20090306131056if_/http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/talon/tal19961206.pdf) in '96. They were popularized in Afghanistan and Iraq but would have been widely used in the Twilight War.

Quick edit: HESCO's website claims they've been used militarily since the first Gulf War.

[rcaf_777]

Sandbag Designs

[rcaf_777]

Hesco bastions

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Totschka. (https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5849)
Yes! That's the one!
Thanks for finding that thread and linking it here :)

[StainlessSteelCynic]

One thing to think about when using 44-gal drums in barriers/barricades - have two layers, the rear layer staggered so the drums fill the space between the drums of the first layer.
It's very easy for projectiles to slip between two barrels and the rounded shape even assists some projectiles to find that weak spot.

[ChalkLine]

Yes! That's the one!
Thanks for finding that thread and linking it here :)

In Germany the wooden ones were Holzunterstand

http://ftr.wot-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Holzutek.jpg

From 1943, Panther turrets were mounted in fixed fortifications; some were normal production models, but most were made specifically for the task, with additional roof armour to withstand artillery fire. Two types of turret emplacements were used; (Pantherturm III – Betonsockel — concrete base) and (Pantherturm I – Stahluntersatz — steel sub-base). They housed ammunition storage and fighting compartment along with crew quarters. A total of 182 of these were installed in the fortifications of the Atlantic Wall and Siegfried Line (Westwall), 48 in the Gothic Line and Hitler Line, 36 on the Eastern Front, and two for training and experimentation, for a total of 268 installations by March 1945. They proved to be costly to attack, and difficult to destroy

Small, easily camouflaged and resistant to attack they were the bane of attackers. In Italy and France they had an evil reputation and they were building them in road intersections in Berlin at the end.
Of course they never worked alone. They had a compliment of infantry to defend them and could call on nearby artillery. Like everyone in The Second World War the Germans were all about manouevre so these were a potent backstop to deal with breakthroughs.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

There's a few decent images floating around of various German turrets used as a road blockades, typically they're Panther turrets on Berlin streets (although in some cases, they dug in the entire tank, burying the vehicle up to the hull roof).

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F46%2Fe8%2Fc 2%2F46e8c29cc7d65cf5f137dc6b9f7256c7.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com%2Fawm-media%2Fcollection%2FP09137.015%2Fscreen%2F3818249 .JPG&f=1&nofb=1

http://www.panzer-modell.de/specials/ontour/westwall2002/Bild025.jpg

[ChalkLine]

The problem with isolated fortifications such as the Panzerstellung is you can smoke them and then infantry can sneak up with HEAT weapons.

In a T2K context it's unlikely you'll see many until the final phase of the war but before the total breakdown. You still need to lift the turret into place and tank turrets are seriously heavy and fortifications aren't always on level ground.

The most likely final era versions would be the Holzunterstand "wooden stand" versions as they don't need heavy concrete or too much advanced technical and engineering ability.

[Raellus]

I would also imagine that modern Soviet MBT turrets would not be suited to Panzerstellung type fortifications because of their integral auto-loading systems. I assume it would need some sort of generator or external power source to remain functional? Can the auto-loader be removed and the canon remain operational (yet manually-loaded)?

-

[Raellus]

I'm not stating that you wouldn't see Panzerstellung in the Twilight War, but one reason that they featured in the waning days of WW2 is that German manufacturing in the last months of the war* was so disrupted by allied bombing that they were having a hard time producing entire tanks, and fuel was in very short supply for the same reason. Chassis/engines were harder to manufacture that turrets, and there wasn't enough gas for new tanks anyways, so homeless turrets were used in fixed fortifications instead. In the Twilight War, manufacturing would be disrupted much more abruptly, so you probably wouldn't end up with as many "surplus" turrets as the Germans did during the last six months or so WW2. I reckon Panzerstellung would be a lot less common in WWIII than in its predecessor.

*Panzerstellung featuring obsolete tank turrets armed with MGs and light canon (Tobruks, I think they were called) were constructed and employed earlier in the war (like in some of the Atlantic Wall defenses). I know that in some parts of the Soviet Union and Switzerland, of all places, obsolescent tank turrets were emplaced in fixed fortifications defending strategic passes and such.

-

[ChalkLine]

Actually a lot of the Panzerstellung were specially-built turrets with thicker overhead armour to resist artillery (classic military mindset: "we have a problem: Fire lots of cannons at it.")

While you can remove the autoloaders from many soviet cannons it's probably not necessary. Modern turrets tend to be huge (even though the bustle racks and stowage will probably be left off) and you'll need a generator to efficiently turn it to respond to threats. That and they have a lot of electrical systems in them anyway.

Turret-bunkers have an interesting history. I'm just reading "Tank Turret Fortifications" Neil Short (Marlborough, 2006) ISBN 978 1 84797 367 2 * which is available for fifteen bucks as an e-book

(*Okay for a good popular history work. The facts are good but Short's conclusions often seem a bit iffy)

[ChalkLine]

If you're reusing one of those old Second World War bunkers with a tiny interwar turret on top it'd perfectly fit an automatic grenade launcher in place of the old cannon . . .

[ChalkLine]

This one will be a bit long.Don't go to its website as it's been hacked.

I'm posting some info on Port Scratchely. Now, this is as far from the battlefields of Twilight 2000 as you can get but it's a good basic plan for a coastal fortification built on a headland.
It's a Victorian-era coastal battery guarding a port. It was updated during The Second World War. I won't go into its history. Its usefulness lies in that it is representative of a lot of fortresses just like this and could be found anywhere in the world.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254440262_333bdc8c58_b.jpg

The Aboveground Section

1. Entrance to Fort Scratchley
2. Dry Ditch and Defensive Wall - the ditch was a major obstacle for any attack against the fort from the landward side.
3. The Old Guardhouse - Contained two cells for locking up misbehaving soldiers and was the crew station for soldiers guarding Fort Scratchley - it was converted into a communications centre during World War 2.
4. The New Guardhouse - Built during World War 2 to replace the Old Guardhouse, it also contains two cells and had an Anti-Aircraft machine gun mounted on the roof during, World War 2.
5. The Laboratory - a safe area where shells and cartridge bags were filled with gunpowder from the wooden barrels that the powder was transported in.
6. Ablutions and Stores Block - Added before World War II to provide additional shower and toilet facilities as well as more storage space for rations and clothing.
7. The Gunner's Toilets - originally this block housed the toilets for the gunners and the Non Commissioned Officers at Fort Scratchley.
3. Searchlight Engine Room - Built during World War 2 to house and protect a Lister diesel powered D.C. Generator used to power a searchlight, which was mounted below the fort.
9. Mine Firing Station - Range-Finding and Control Position for the remote controlled minefield, which could be laid across the harbour entrance in times of war.
10. The Barracks - accommodation area for the Permanent Military Forces personnel. (The militia forces had to sleep in tents outside the fort walls when they had their annual training camps.
11. Canteen and Stores Block - contained the soldier’s canteen or mess (dining area). 12. Kitchen Block - contained the kitchen, washhouse, storerooms and offices.
13. Commandant's Cottage - residence for the senior Permanent Military Forces Officer, his family and servants. During World War 2, it was the Officer's Mess and their Barracks.
14. The Western Barbette - an 80 pounder Rifled Muzzle Loading (R.M.L.) Gun was mounted in this gun pit from 1882 to 1907. The main 9 inch R.M.L. Guns at Fort Scratchley were mounted in similar pits to this, facing out to sea, when the fort was first constructed in 1882.
15. The Battery Observation Post - constructed in 1914 and extended during World War 2, this was the command centre and range finding position for the fort and the new 6 inch Mark VII guns. In 1943 it was extended to house the Searchlight Directing Station.
16. Casemate Air Shafts - these wrought iron covers protect the airshafts leading down to the, casemate battery. These, shafts also gave access for the installation and later removal of the guns from the underground casemate battery.
17. The Parade ground - area for the parading and drilling of the gunners.
18. No.'s 1 & 2 Guns - these 6-inch Mark VII Breech Loading (B.L.) Guns were installed in & 1910-11 and helped to protect Newcastle during both World Wars. On the morning of 19th June 1942, they were used to fight off a Japanese Submarine attacking Newcastle.
20. Flagpole - replica of the original flagpole for National and Signal Flags.
21. Entrance to the Underground Passageways.
22. The Artillery Store - Main Storeroom for the fort.
23. Searchlight Directing Station - 1941 to 1943 the fort's three, searchlights were controlled from this position, and it was transferred to the Battery Observation Post in 1943.
24. Auxiliary Searchlight Engine Room - a wartime measure, this position mounted a Gardener No. 9 Heavy Oil Engine and a belt driven D.C. Generator for additional power during the war.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254260191_6b7a2573a9_b.jpg

The Underground Sections

1. Entrance to the original Gun Emplacements and Magazines. (The Tunnels)
2. Artillery Store - The Fort's Storeroom (oils, paint, tools, uniforms, tools and other stuff@. 3. Small Arms Store - original storage area for the Martini-Henry Rifles used by the troops.
4. Side Arms Store (1890 - 1937) - storage area for gun sights, breech fittings and loading tools for the disappearing gun.
5. Gun Emplacement No. 1 (1882 to 1937)
1882 - 1890 One, 9 inch Rifled Muzzle Loading (R.M.L.) Gun in an open barbette 1390 - 1937 One, 6 inch Breech Loading (B.L.) Gun on a Hydro-Pneumatic (H.P.) "Disappearing" type mounting.
1940 - 1962 Pit roofed over after removal of gun-used for additional shell storage area. 6. Ammunition Lift -- used to bring Shells and/or Cartridges up from the magazine level 7. Gun Emplacement No. 2 (1882 - 1937)
1882 - 1940 As for Gun Emplacement No. 1 (See 5)
1940 - 1945 Roofed over and used as gun crew-sleeping area during World War 11.
8. Lamp Room - used to store, maintain and light the kerosene, lamps used in the tunnels. 9. Crew area - No. 2, 6 inch Gun was manned 24 hours/day during wartime as the "Examination Gun" to enforce the Naval Control of shipping entering and leaving the harbour during World Wars 1 & 2.
10. Gun Emplacement No. 3 (1882 - 1910)
1882 - 1910 As for Gun Emplacement No. 1 (See 5).
1910 - 1962 gun removed, pit roofed over to serve as main shell store for the new &inch Mark VII B.L. Guns
11. Shell Store - shell storage area for the original R.M.L and later Disappearing Guns. 12. No. 1 Casemate Battery (1882 to 1962)
1882 - 1898 One, 80 pounder (pdr) R.M.L. Gun.
1898 - 1910 one, 1.5 inch Nordenfelt Quick Firing (Q.F.) Gun (Anti-Torpedo Boat Gun). 1910 - 1962: Converted to a Cartridge Magazine for the No. 2, 6 inch Mark VII Gun.
13. No.'s 2 & 3 Casemate Battery (1882 to 1918)
1882 - 1898 As for No. 1 Casemate Battery (See 12).
1898 - 1918 one, 1.5 inch Nordenfelt Quick Firing (Q.F.) Gun (Anti-Torpedo Boat Gun).
14. Expense Magazine - ready use ammunition for the Casemate Battery Guns.
15. Shell Store - ready use shells for the Casemate Battery Guns.
16. Time Gun Ammunition Store - a time gun was fired at 1 o'clock each day from the fort.
17. Casemate Gun Ports - The Casemate Battery guns provided short-range defensive fire to protect the harbour entrance and the minefield across the channel.
18. Ventilation Passage - allowed the circulation of air to prevent dampness coming through the walls and effecting the gunpowder stored in the magazines.
19. Lamp Passage - external access to the kerosene lamps used to light the magazines
20. Lamp Recess - glassed in fittings for the kerosene lamps to ensure that the flame from the lamps couldn't ignite the gunpowder cartridges stored and handled around the magazines.
21. Main Magazines (1882 - 1962)
1882 - 1892 Gunpowder cartridges for the 9-inch & 80 pdr R.M.L. Guns.
1892 - 1910 Gunpowder and Cordite Cartridges for the 6 & 8 inch Disappearing Guns. 1910 - 1962 Cordite Cartridges for the 6 inch Mk VII B.L. Guns.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254506292_8ef40de801_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254440707_fb616cdfd2_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254260556_4f71b95b29_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254440592_cb5e27c436_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254260436_d328cf1e8b_w.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50253599708_fa18a5472a.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50253599693_0ec5ce9db9.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50254260226_3cbb38b779.jpg

Here are its Google Maps coordinates (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fort+Scratchley/@-32.9256906,151.7913232,469m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x6b73147ee00c0cc1:0xbe16e 73e3c5d962!8m2!3d-32.9260981!4d151.791055?hl=en-GB) so you can get an idea of how it relates to its surroundings

[ChalkLine]

The disappearing gun mount pits, now vacant, make perfect positions for heavy mortars. The soviets love heavy mortars, here's a good place to have a few.

The dry ditch is still a serious impediment to attack but if I was the GM and it had been manned during the war I'd have enlarged it and have had the forward wall clad in sandbags revetted with wood and maybe covered in chain-link. Failing that keep it as it is and have a stand-off chain-link barrier mounted one metre off the face of the concrete.

As can be seen some of the heavy armour covers are starting to look a bit rusty. A wooden framework supporting a metre or so of sandbags will fix that and stop the covers shedding steel splinters should they be struck by artillery.

There's a lot of uses for this fortress but a good one is to have it holding hostage the port below. Marauders can have a few odds and sods direct fire weapons in the casemates covering the harbour and stopping enemy shipping forcing the straights. This was going to be my plan for it (either that or a murder mystery in Space 1889)

[rcaf_777]

I been thinking you make some good fortications using

Barrells (Plastic or metal) filled with sand, dirt or small stone
Landscaping Stone
Large Logs
ammo can filled with sand or dirt or pack snow with a little water added

[Desert Mariner]

A recent example of military use of Hesco https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35863/the-french-army-is-building-renaissance-style-fortresses-in-africa

[bash]

I been thinking you make some good fortications using

Barrells (Plastic or metal) filled with sand, dirt or small stone
Landscaping Stone
Large Logs
ammo can filled with sand or dirt or pack snow with a little water added

In "normal" conditions I'd agree filled barrels, ammo canisters, or other durable containers would make good makeshift fortifications. I think those make a lot less sense in the Twilight War (after TDM) because durable containers would cease to be commodities.

A 55 gal drum would be better used storing day's worth of water for a platoon, the methanol to keep vehicles moving, or components of stills or water filters than static fortifications. Of course rusted out or shot up barrels you'd use for gabions but you wouldn't waste any in good condition.

[Vespers War]

Another existing fort that could be of use in a campaign involved in the Gulf of Mexico (whether that follow on from Spanish Main, Urban Guerilla, or Red Star) is Fort Jefferson. The third-largest fort in the United States, it takes up 70% of the land area of Garden Key, Dry Tortugas, about 70 miles west of Key West. The fort's parade ground is 13 acres, surrounded by six brick-and-concrete walls that are eight feet thick and forty-five feet high. It's large enough to house 2,000 people and 450 cannon, and contains around 16 million bricks.

The fort was built for its strategic location and harbor. The inner harbor was deep enough for line-of-battle ships, but its entrance was only 120 yards across. The island already had a lighthouse, which the fort was built around (it was later torn down and another lighthouse built). It provided for a secure harbor from which to patrol the Gulf of Mexico and the entrance to the Straits of Florida.

It's much more open now than it was originally; all of the gun embrasures were fitted with Totten gunports. The eight inch thick iron shutters were balanced so that the gasses leaving a cannon's barrel before the shot would push them open, with the shutter rebounding closed after the shot passed through. Over a century and a half, they were damaged by water and began cracking the fort's facade by swelling, so they've been removed. A would-be pirate king would want to find ways to fill some of that open area with protective cover.

The one weakness of the location is a lack of fresh water. The design attempted to solve this by placing columns of sand within the walls of the fort, leading to cisterns below, so that rainwater falling on the fort would drain through the sand as a filtration medium. Unfortunately, the sand that was used contains mineral salts, so the water is undrinkable, though it can be used for washing or cooking if the cracked cisterns (from settling) can be patched. When the fort saw its heaviest use during the Civil War, steam condensers were used to produce water, and a post-Twilight War occupier would need some sort of method of producing drinkable water, possibly salvaged from ships.

[cawest]

using old sea land vans filled with dirt. you would need to do some bracing but thank about a two of three layer van. the bottom two are "solid" but the top one has heavy still plate on the inside and when the top guards drop down from the top of the top layer into the number 3 to fire at heavy attackers.

[swaghauler]

using old sea land vans filled with dirt. you would need to do some bracing but thank about a two of three layer van. the bottom two are "solid" but the top one has heavy still plate on the inside and when the top guards drop down from the top of the top layer into the number 3 to fire at heavy attackers.

Sea containers (both the 4500lb 20ft and the 8000lb 40ft versions) are reinforced to support up to 67,200 TOTAL pounds including 59,200lbs of cargo in addition to the container (for a 40ft container). You only need to line the inside with a single layer of sandbags to stop .30 caliber rounds. 3 rows of sandbags will stop a .50 caliber BMG because these containers are designed to survive a deck stacking (LOADED) at sea. The 20ft container has 4 corner tie-downs rated at 10K each and the 40ft container has either 6 or 8 tie-downs depending on the generation.

I wouldn't fill tires to make fortifications either. In modern war, a single flaming round will ignite those tires and they will burn INTENSELY, producing a choking poisonous smoke to boot. However, using them as a flaming barricade IS a viable tactic as the Skinnies proved in Somalia.

[wolffhound79]

Using sea cans welded together with firing ports cut in could be a good option for cover, sand bags to help reinforce. One thing Ive used in my campaigns is jersey barriers. Easy enough with a crane or forklift to remove from hiways and construction sites and stack able. In our local cement plant they have walls made with the large brick like lego cement blocks. Many of the cement plants here make and use them in there yards especially the landscaping yards to keep rock and dirt separated and they have hooks in them to lift and place them. there about 2 feet tall and wide by 4 feet long.

[micromachine]

Sea cans would be good with sandbags on the outside and the inside, not to mention some chain link to act as " heat killer", and you have a viable keep. You would need to incorporate grenade sumps and ammo storage, and some way to prevent water infiltration.
The only real problem is how do you move them, cut holes, and make them into fortifications without power tools, lift trucks or boom trucks? To be sure, they could be nudged about by tracked vehicles, but we are really talking about precision emplacement, and nudges (burning precious fuel) are only broad strokes.
Sandbags, sharpened stakes, shovels, axes, saws and picks with be the bastion makers of this era, coupled with copious amounts of manual labour.

[swaghauler]

S
The only real problem is how do you move them, cut holes, and make them into fortifications without power tools, lift trucks or boom trucks? To be sure, they could be nudged about by tracked vehicles, but we are really talking about precision emplacement, and nudges (burning precious fuel) are only broad strokes.
Sandbags, sharpened stakes, shovels, axes, saws and picks with be the bastion makers of this era, coupled with copious amounts of manual labour.

The same way the Egyptians built the pyramids. Come-alongs, block & tackle, rolling pins (small but long steel pins to roll on like a bearing), and slides (greased plywood ramps) all for the assist. The winches found on most US military vehicles will pull from 10K to 25K pounds and combined with rolling pins and levers, could position weights as heavy as 50K pounds. How do I know this? We use them all the time on the farm.

[ChalkLine]

A 20-footer weighs about 2 tonnes and a 40-footer weighs about 4 tonnes. These are well within a lot of load ranges for a derrick. You can build a big A-frame and get a trailer under it. You'll need chains, winches and cargo handling knowledge.

Now, trailers tend to have been left on nice flat ground but of course people are going to want them elsewhere. At this point you'll want as you said a crane. However by 2000ad they're everywhere (my players are looking for one now) and craning stuff around is bread-and-butter work for most people by the time 2000ad rolls around.

By the way, those containers use Weathering steel (often known as "Cor-Ten" which is a trademark). While this stuff rusts slowly your player-made welds will rust at a normal rate unless they use specialist equipment which really isn't worth the bother. The walls are generally just under 2mm thick of mild steel equivalent.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Just some more on tank turrets being used for fortifications, Austria apparently had quite a few built into their Schleinzerwall bunker system.

Austria maintained a vast array of older tank turrets emplaced in fortifications. According to this site, Austria had: 48 75mm turrets (M4?), 24 85mm T-34 turrets (perhaps as many as 44), 56 83.4mm (20lb) Charioteer turrets, 143 90mm M36 turrets, 148 105mm Centurion turrets bought around 1980, plus another 226 105mm Centurion turrets after 1985.
This quote is taken from the Austrian OOB provided in the thread about Raellus' Austria sourcebook.
https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4178 Post #27 - however the link to the source of this info is now a dead link but the following link has some supporting information: - https://www.unterirdisch-forum.de/index.php?threads/bunkeranlage-remise-zillingdorf-n%C3%A4he-fondsgut-in-p%C3%B6ttsching.15479/

The construction work on the bunker line, which was also called "Schleinzerwall" (Karl Schleinzer: Minister of Defense from 1961 to 1964; note), with its permanent structures and other fortifications, was largely completed by 1964. During the Cold War, this wall was considered first line of defense and bulwark for a possible attack from the east - specifically from Hungary. Between the Danube and Wiener Neustadt, a total of around 140 systems of different sizes and with different armament were built ...
The "Schleinzerwall" was built even before the spatial defense existed, as a reaction to the Hungarian crisis of 1956. Its construction established the permanent defense systems in Austria during the Cold War. These were built increasingly from the 1970s as part of the space defense concept. The facility on the Ungerberg was integrated into this concept and is therefore also a witness of this era . Armed Forces - TRUPPENDIENST - Issue 4/2015 - Ungerberg Bunker - Relic of the Cold War (http://www.bundesheer.at/truppendienst/ausgaben/artikel.php?id=1852)
This quote is taken from the same site linked to from the first quote, page 2, post #26
https://www.unterirdisch-forum.de/index.php?threads/bunkeranlage-remise-zillingdorf-n%C3%A4he-fondsgut-in-p%C3%B6ttsching.15479/page-2

[pansarskott]

Sweden used old tank turrets (37 or 75 mm) for defence of airports and coastal defence. IIRC 37 mm was used on airport, enough penetration to ruin a BMD crew's day. 75 mm was used in both roles.

75 mm:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DK-99sEVwAAsM8u.jpg

[swaghauler]

A 20-footer weighs about 2 tonnes and a 40-footer weighs about 4 tonnes. These are well within a lot of load ranges for a derrick. You can build a big A-frame and get a trailer under it. You'll need chains, winches and cargo handling knowledge.

Now, trailers tend to have been left on nice flat ground but of course people are going to want them elsewhere. At this point you'll want as you said a crane. However by 2000ad they're everywhere (my players are looking for one now) and craning stuff around is bread-and-butter work for most people by the time 2000ad rolls around.

By the way, those containers use Weathering steel (often known as "Cor-Ten" which is a trademark). While this stuff rusts slowly your player-made welds will rust at a normal rate unless they use specialist equipment which really isn't worth the bother. The walls are generally just under 2mm thick of mild steel equivalent.

I've seen roughnecks lacking equipment move stuff using techniques similar to this guy but he has moving weight literally "down to a science."

https://youtu.be/E5pZ7uR6v8c?t=90

[Wolf sword]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35863/the-french-army-is-building-renaissance-style-fortresses-in-africa

Here in the US one could see civil war era forts being reused especially if they were restored as a historic site.
Or if one of the PC was a history major they could whip up something like the link quick enough.

[Vespers War]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35863/the-french-army-is-building-renaissance-style-fortresses-in-africa

Here in the US one could see civil war era forts being reused especially if they were restored as a historic site.
Or if one of the PC was a history major they could whip up something like the link quick enough.

There aren't that many surviving Civil War forts. A lot of them were earthworks that dissolved back into the landscape as oddly hilly terrain after the war, while others have been torn down and built over, while still others (especially out west) were garrisons without permanent fortifications. Excluding the ones already mentioned (Monroe and Jefferson), surviving hard fortifications used in the Civil War include (all build dates are when construction started):

Fort Jay (New York, NY) - built 1794 on Governors Island.
Castle Williams (New York, NY) - built 1807 on Governors Island.
Fort Schuyler (New York, NY) - built 1833 at Throggs Neck.
Fort Tompkins (New York, NY) - built 1847 to protect the landward approach to the harbor forts.

Fort Delaware (Pea Patch Island, DE) - built 1817.

Fort Gaines (Dauphin Island, AL) - built 1821.
Fort Morgan (Gasque, AL) - built 1818. These two forts together protected the entrance to Mobile Bay.

Fort Independence (Boston, MA) - built 1833 on Castle Island.
Fort Warren (Boston, MA) - built 1833 on Georges Island.

Fort Jackson (Plaquemines Parish, LA) - built 1822.
Fort St. Philip (Plaquemines Parish, LA) - built after War of 1812 on the site of an earlier fortification. Only accessible by boat. Floods at high tide due to erosion of a protective levee. These two forts protected the entrance to New Orleans.

Fort Knox (Prospect, ME) - built 1844. Only partially built, protects the mouth of the Penobscot River.

Fort Massachusetts (West Ship Island, MS) - built 1859. A brick-and-mortar sea fort, the brick was unrestored between the fort's completion in 1866 and a program in 2001.

Fort McHenry (Baltimore, MD) - built 1798.

Fort Mifflin (Philadelphia, PA) - built 1771 as Fort Island Battery. The only active military base in the US older than the Declaration of Independence.

Fort Moultrie (Charleston, SC) - built 1776.
Castle Pinckney (Charleston, SC) - built 1810. Mostly in ruins.
Fort Sumter (Charleston, SC) - built 1829.

Fort Point (San Francisco, CA) - built 1853 to protect the harbor.

Fort Popham (Phippsburg, ME) - built 1861, never finished. Protects the mouth of the Kennebec River.

Fort Preble (South Portland, ME) - built 1808, site of Southern Maine Community College since 1952.
Fort Gorges (Portland Harbor, ME) - built 1858, only accessible by boat.
Fort Scammell (House Island, ME) - built 1808. All three of these forts defended Portland's harbor.

Fort Pulaski (Savannah, GA) - built 1829.

Fort Rodman (New Bedford, MA) - built 1857, never finished.

Fort Sewall (Marblehead, MA) - built 1742.

Fort Trumbull (New London, CT) - built 1839 on the site of a 1777 fortification.

[swaghauler]

For those of you playing Allegheny Uprising, Ft. Ligonier sits southeast of Pittsburgh on RT 31 and just 2 miles east of I76E (Toll) south of New Stanton and north of Johnstown. It is fully restored and dates to the French & Indian War.

https://youtu.be/mNuu4ozZO6A

Swag

[Vespers War]

For those of you playing Allegheny Uprising, Ft. Ligonier sits southeast of Pittsburgh on RT 31 and just 2 miles east of I76E (Toll) south of New Stanton and north of Johnstown. It is fully restored and dates to the French & Indian War.

https://youtu.be/mNuu4ozZO6A

Swag

It would probably be less fully restored or restored significantly differently in the T2K timeline. The earliest reconstruction work dates back to the 1950s, but the fascine battery, outer retrenchments, and lower historic area structures were built in the mid to late 1990s.

There's also Fort Roberdeau outside Altoona, which was reconstructed in 1976 for the Bicentennial.

Fayette County has the reconstructed Fort Necessity, which I've visited for a reenactment day. It would be totally unsuitable in a post-apocalyptic scenario. It was built to protect a storehouse from friendly looters, rather than as a battle fortification. It's made of thin planking and is barely large enough to contain a supply shed, no barracks or any bastions or anything of that sort.


Virginia would have few ready fortifications. Fort Monroe, Fort Norfolk, and Fort Wool would all likely suffer damage if not destruction in the nuclear exchange. The only other fortification I know of in good shape is the earthwork Fort Ward in Arlington, which is 90-95% preserved (including embrasures, though I'm not sure of the condition of the magazines) as a city park and museum. Not relevant for T2K but of interest for history buffs is that the museum at Fort Ward has one of only three surviving Hale rocket launchers in the US.



Maryland has a few potentially useful forts. Fort Frederick out in Washington County is a stone star fort right on the Potomac River. It's not designed to resist artillery, but it would be a useful fortification. I've visited this one and it would need work to rebuild the earthen platforms in the bastions, but it looks quite usable.

One oddball is Fort Carrol, an abandoned seafort in Baltimore Harbor. It's been abandoned since 1921 except for use as a firing range during WW2.

Outside of DC is Fort Washington, built in the early 1800s to guard the Potomac. There's a stone-and-brick fort and three surviving concrete and steel Endicott batteries (out of eight originals). I haven't visited this one, but it's on my to-do list once it fully reopens (it's currently closed to vehicular traffic because the trails are in heavy use by locals).

[Wolf sword]

Another one to add to the list is Fort Snelling
https://www.mnhs.org/fortsnelling
It also had a bunch of latter added building post Civil war and up to WW2.
I live near this one if anyone needs more info or pictures.
The state historical soc took over in the 70s and ran it as living history site.

[Desert Mariner]

Another one I didn't see listed is Fort Niagara.
https://www.oldfortniagara.org/

[swaghauler]

Another one I didn't see listed is Fort Niagara.
https://www.oldfortniagara.org/

A nice place. It would completely control all shipping in the Niagra River and the Welland Canal which bypasses the Falls. The place is in good condition too.

[swaghauler]

[QUOTE=Vespers War;84962]It would probably be less fully restored or restored significantly differently in the T2K timeline. The earliest reconstruction work dates back to the 1950s, but the fascine battery, outer retrenchments, and lower historic area structures were built in the mid to late 1990s.


I know. I was there for most of it as this is a favorite "haunt" of mine. I agree that most of the buildings would be "restored" differently (Hesco construction anyone?) but a lot of the excavations were done in time for the Twilight War.

One interesting feature of the Fort is the large "assembly area" on the higher hill above the batteries. This wasn't supposed to be a large open area. The French planned on building a "fortified manor house" like those found at Fort Niagra and other older NW US forts. These structures would include a large meeting/gathering hall as well as a very nice residence for a "lord" or "administrator." They were primarily used as a "seat of government" and meetings and trials would be held there. The upper stories would be living quarters for the person in charge of that region. The fort was abandoned by the French before a "government house" was erected there.

I could see a commanding watch tower being built there in 2000.

[dragoon500ly]

*Panzerstellung featuring obsolete tank turrets armed with MGs and light canon (Tobruks, I think they were called) were constructed and employed earlier in the war (like in some of the Atlantic Wall defenses). I know that in some parts of the Soviet Union and Switzerland, of all places, obsolescent tank turrets were emplaced in fixed fortifications defending strategic passes and such. -

Source is War Department Technical Manual TM-E 30-451 Handbook on German Forces.

Tobruk started out as an Italian fortification. In its most basic configuration, it was an open, circular pit lined with reinforced concrete with a neck-like opening at ground level. They vary in size, depending on the weapon mounted, but the diameter of the neck is kept as small as possible to reduce the risk of direct hits. Of intrest are the instructions to not build a concrete roof, as this will reveal the position to the enemy. A board of irregular shape, used as a lid, camouflages the circular opening and keeps out the rain.

There were three versions of the Tobruk:
The Type 58C (Ringstand) is the most common. It is a rectangular box measuring 12'2" long by 7'8" wide and 8'2" high. It consists of a lower ammunition magazine with an open entrance. The upper chamber has a metal ring mount for a MG34/MG42 machinegun that provides a 360 degree arc of fire.

The Type 61A was a mortar emplacement (for the 50mm light mortar). It had a larger open mount due to a concrete post in the middle (to mount the mortar). In this version, the ammo magazine was offset to one side.

The final version is the Panzerstellung. This was modified to mount the turret from a French Renault 35 tank.

Of interest when you look over the larger German fortifications, you will often note one or two Type 58C Tobruks that provide an observation/mg post to cover the top or entrance of the emplacement.

[dragoon500ly]

forgot to include the link for the German Army Handbook, the fortification information and sketchs are in chapter six.

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Germany/HB/HB-1.html

[Southernap]

So out in the Pacific Northwest there are the remains of the US Coastal Defense Forts Casey (https://parks.state.wa.us/505/Fort-Casey), Worden, Columbia (https://parks.state.wa.us/506/Fort-Columbia), Worden (https://parks.state.wa.us/511/Fort-Worden)

All of which might be repurposed for use during the Twilight War.

Similarly, I haven't see anyone mention the numerous Flaktrum's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower) that are in Austria and Germany. All of which unless they were ground zero probably still exist and may have been repurposed during the Twilight War.

As well I know in a numerous locations out west in the US there are block houses made out of wooden or stone (depending on your region). These usually had stocks of arms, powder, bullets, and food for folks to retreat to and defense themselves from hostiles in the region. One would assume that these would see a revival in a number of towns both in the US and Europe to defense against marauders. Granted these might not stand up against heavy arms like mortars or armored vehicles. That said, they still might be valuable to some locations as places to hide out and run off to when marauders come into town.

[dragoon500ly]

Came across an interesting book titled "Fortress Europe, European Fortifications of World War Two" by J.E. Kaufmann and R.M. Jurga.

This gives an overall of the prewar defences that covered Europe, including:
The French Maginot Line.

The German East Wall, West Wall, and the Baltic Sea Coast Defenses

The Belgian Liege and Namur Defenses, the Albert Canal Line, Antwerp's Defenses and the national Redoubt, the KW line, and the Coast Defenses.

The Netherlands Grebbe Line, Fortress Holland, and the Frontier Lines.

The Swiss Army Position and Border Line and the National Redoubt.

The British Coastal Defences, the Stop Lines as well as the defences of Gibraltar and Malta.

The Italian Vallo Alpino, the Coast Defenses, and the Island Defenses.

Scandinavia, including the Danish Coastal Defenses, the Norwegian Forts and Coastal Defenses, and the Swedish Coastal Defences and Fortress Boden.

The Czechoslovakian Maginot or Benes Line, and the Slovak Defenses.

The Polish Eastern Border, Western Border, and Coastal Defenses.

The Yugoslavian Italian Front, German Front, Hungarian Front, and Coastal Defenses.

The Balkans including the Metaxas Line and Forts, the Carol Lines, the Romanian Fortifications, and the Turkish Straits.

The Finnish Mannerheim Line, the Salpa Line, and the Coastal Defenses.

The Soviet Stalin Line, the Molotov Line, and the Coastal Defenses.

And finally, The Atlantic Wall.

Includes details on the design, weapons, black and white photos, as well as numerous line drawings to wet your appetite!!

[Southernap]

Came across an interesting book titled "Fortress Europe, European Fortifications of World War Two" by J.E. Kaufmann and R.M. Jurga.



The book at Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/Fortress-Europe-European-Fortifications-World/dp/1580970001/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Fortress+Europe%2C+European+Fortification s+of+World+War+Two&qid=1604384771&sr=8-1)

For those that want to add to their reference stash.

[Raellus]

Great resources, gents. Thanks for sharing.

Osprey Publishing's Fortress series has some interesting volumes that are germane to T2k. I can speak to a couple specific examples.

Fortress 11: Crusader Castles of the Teutonic Knights (1) AD provides a great overview of castles in Poland, many of which are located on the banks of the Vistula. I used it to build encounters for a Pirates of the Vistula PbP campaign, and to write the Rook's Gambit adventure module (link in my sig).

Special Forces Camps in Vietnam 1961–70 (Fortress) is a good resource for GMs wishing to include fortifications that one might expect to encounter around cantonments of around company to battalion size.

Other titles cover some of the fortifications previously mentioned by other posters in this thread.

[dragoon500ly]

Another excellent resource is "Fortress Third Reich" by J.E. Kaufmaan, H.W. Kaufmann & Robert M. Jurga

This work covers the post-Franco-Prussian War, the Great War, Second Reich and Reichswehr, the pre-war Wehrmacht, the WW2 Wehrmacht (including the coastal fortifications, air-raid defenses, Herr Schekengrubers Command and Control bunkers, info on the armored trains, the U-Boat Pens, der Atlantic Wall, the V-1 and V-2 sites and some very interesting appendices that included the armored parts of German fortifications; the concrete specifications, specifics from a German evaluation of the effects of bomb and heavy naval guns on the Atlantic Wall.

Should still be available on amazon!

[Raellus]

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-war-russia-troops-shelters-39a3d36ae6078765908a51975e09a4b7

"For now, that means assembling prefabricated materials into underground shelters using a Soviet-era design. They have already shipped 123 of the 2-meter (6 1/2-foot) -wide, 6-meter (20-foot) -long structures structures to areas that include eastern Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk provinces. Each shelter requires nearly 2 tons of steel. The bunkers are built to withstand projectiles with calibers of up to 152 millimeters, can accommodate up to six soldiers and need to be buried 1.5 meters (about 5 feet) underground." (Emphasis added.)

Unfortunately, the article doesn't contain any useful images of said pre-fab bunkers. I'd love to see a schematic.

In the T2kU, I'd reckon the Soviets would have seeded scores, if not hundreds, of these bunkers across Poland during NATO's initial push east.

-

[Vespers War]

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-war-russia-troops-shelters-39a3d36ae6078765908a51975e09a4b7

"For now, that means assembling prefabricated materials into underground shelters using a Soviet-era design. They have already shipped 123 of the 2-meter (6 1/2-foot) -wide, 6-meter (20-foot) -long structures structures to areas that include eastern Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk provinces. Each shelter requires nearly 2 tons of steel. The bunkers are built to withstand projectiles with calibers of up to 152 millimeters, can accommodate up to six soldiers and need to be buried 1.5 meters (about 5 feet) underground." (Emphasis added.)

Unfortunately, the article doesn't contain any useful images of said pre-fab bunkers. I'd love to see a schematic.

In the T2kU, I'd reckon the Soviets would have seeded scores, if not hundreds, of these bunkers across Poland during NATO's initial push east.

-

I haven't seen a schematic, but mil.in.ua (https://mil.in.ua/en/news/engineers-are-setting-up-positions-using-underground-modules/) has a series of images of one being installed.

Also an option would be the much smaller Russian hard points from this Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1547308890659983365?lang=en) that were being transported in pairs on 6x6 trucks.

And in reference to the wooden blockhouse that Southernap posted a few years ago, there's at least one reconstructed one on the East Coast - Fort King George in Darien, Georgia was rebuilt in 1988. Its wooden walls are 4 inches thick

[Raellus]

Thanks for the links, VW.

This site has a ton of pics of Soviet 'Monolith' nuclear bunkers in Poland and the former East Germany. There's also map of other sites throughout Europe.

https://www.sightraider.com/soviet-monolith-nuclear-bunkers-in-poland-survivors-ghosts/?fbclid=IwAR1pyUUjH9LA-QSQj_nLFDXdug7o2lRLerDGRYda17HoS-FNvqzztT5ToMA

-

[Raellus]

This article is so nice, I had to post it twice (it's also in the Ukraine War thread).

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/COUNTEROFFENSIVE/mopakddwbpa/

It features maps, satellite images, diagrams, and sketches of Russian defenses in Ukraine.

-

[The Zappster]

Great article. Shows how little warfare has changed for the "poor bloody infantry" dispute multi million dollar missiles.

[Homer]

Digging out the old diagrams of the Soviet bear claw positions and their obstacles belts, it’s beginning to look familiar. As always, time favors the defender.

Rolling back the security zone, breaching, and clearing defensive positions is one of the most complex combined arms endeavors there is. Even with PGMs, MICLICs, and mounted breaching there will be a requirement at some point for bayonet and grenade work.

Of course, a poorly built defense can be a trap for the defender. Like all things, its attention to detail and rehearsal. That requires leadership which may be in short supply.

[Ursus Maior]

Great article. Shows how little warfare has changed for the "poor bloody infantry" dispute multi million dollar missiles.

Well, you still got to go places and be there to make stuff happen. Stopping people from doing that is the only way to defend territory.

[Raellus]

For Sweden-based campaigns, check out Boden Fortress. It was built in the early 20th century to defend against an attack from Russia. It was in use until the early 1990s, IRL (the last bit that was used was decommissioned in 1998!). Apparently, Sweden's gold reserves were stored inside Boden Fortress at one point.

https://www.spottinghistory.com/view/2012/boden-fortress/

The website also provides links to info on other fortresses and castles in Sweden.

Here's an unofficial "tour" (no narration) posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ddr-IJbOGI

-

[Homer]

In the US and some of its current and former possessions, there are numerous coast artillery positions that are still extant around major port cities and key waterways. Some of the later era (Endicott and Taft period) fortifications were built tough with steel reinforced concrete structures while even the earlier fortifications have masonry walls and all have ravelins, outer works, and hardened or buried magazines. Most of the later forts began closing their doors in the 40s, with some remaining in service into the Nike-Hercules era in the 60s and 70s before shuttering. A few were incorporated as non-functional items into subsequent military installations.

Going into T2K, some of the ones in better condition include Fort Monroe, VA; Fort Kamehameha (Hickam AFB) and Fort Ruger (Diamond Head/Fort Ruger State Military Reservation), HI; Fort Baker (Presidio of San Francisco), CA; Fort Jay (USCG Governor’s Island as mentioned in Armies of the Night), NY; Fort Trumbull (Naval Underwater Systems Center) (and associated fortifications on Fisher’s Island and Tern Island), New London, CT; Fort Niagara, NY; Fort McHenry, MD; The Harbor Defenses of Boston; Fort Terry (Plum Island), NY; and Fort Vancouver, WA. It’s doubtful they are serving their original role, but they all provide fairly defensible structures, many of which would have survived nuclear explosions quite well and all of which would pose a challenge to direct attack by a post TDM force.

Most have their own water supplies, some have generators (especially the Taft area forts), and all have either hardened barracks built into the structure or a cantonment area with barracks, etc (most of the “fort” part of Fort Niagara is a post civil war area administrative post with brick Barack’s and support structures). Because they were all designed to be defensible (and the separate batteries and facilities were also designed to be defensible) with a minimal sized force to enable the bulk of the garrison to work the guns, they could be a good refuge for a party and their allies or a decent base of operations.

[Vespers War]

In the US and some of its current and former possessions, there are numerous coast artillery positions that are still extant around major port cities and key waterways. Some of the later era (Endicott and Taft period) fortifications were built tough with steel reinforced concrete structures while even the earlier fortifications have masonry walls and all have ravelins, outer works, and hardened or buried magazines. Most of the later forts began closing their doors in the 40s, with some remaining in service into the Nike-Hercules era in the 60s and 70s before shuttering. A few were incorporated as non-functional items into subsequent military installations.

Going into T2K, some of the ones in better condition include Fort Monroe, VA; Fort Kamehameha (Hickam AFB) and Fort Ruger (Diamond Head/Fort Ruger State Military Reservation), HI; Fort Baker (Presidio of San Francisco), CA; Fort Jay (USCG Governor’s Island as mentioned in Armies of the Night), NY; Fort Trumbull (Naval Underwater Systems Center) (and associated fortifications on Fisher’s Island and Tern Island), New London, CT; Fort Niagara, NY; Fort McHenry, MD; The Harbor Defenses of Boston; Fort Terry (Plum Island), NY; and Fort Vancouver, WA. It’s doubtful they are serving their original role, but they all provide fairly defensible structures, many of which would have survived nuclear explosions quite well and all of which would pose a challenge to direct attack by a post TDM force.

Most have their own water supplies, some have generators (especially the Taft area forts), and all have either hardened barracks built into the structure or a cantonment area with barracks, etc (most of the “fort” part of Fort Niagara is a post civil war area administrative post with brick Barack’s and support structures). Because they were all designed to be defensible (and the separate batteries and facilities were also designed to be defensible) with a minimal sized force to enable the bulk of the garrison to work the guns, they could be a good refuge for a party and their allies or a decent base of operations.

Piping up solely because I've been there a number of times, Fort Monroe does not have its own water supply. The Army kept trying, but after a 2,248 foot deep well still only drew saline water, they gave up and had water shipped to the fort. That part of the Chesapeake got smacked by a bolide ~35 million years ago that disrupted all the aquifers. One other problem with Monroe is it's a stinking huge fort by enclosed fort standards - the area inside the walls is 63 acres, and those walls are 1.3 miles. By comparison, Fort McHenry has 2 acres inside its walls. You'd need a lot of people to adequately cover those walls, and those people will need a lot of water brought in to Monroe.

I'd also add Fort Washington (MD) to the list. The existing masonry fort dates to 1824 but was kept in decent shape because it was a staging area for units being assembled for World War One and was the Adjutant General's School in World War Two before being transferred to Interior. There are also ten Endicott Batteries that were built there, ranging from a pair of 3" quickfire guns to a battery of eight 12" mortars, although the batteries I saw nearest the fort are in rough shape. There's also a large marina within rifle shot of the fort with 300 slips from 25' to 50' that could be useful. There aren't any useful guns there (some preserved smoothbores only IIRC), but the site would still have good potential.

[Homer]

Yep- I see that now. Apparently Monroe had shallow wells and cisterns which met peacetime requirements but were unsuitable for the increased garrison during the ACW. Looks like they actually established an outer work during the ACW solely to ensure they could draw fresh water. Post war, the eventually began buying municipal water. Yeah, that’s bad, unless you can snag a ROWPU and a connex full of spares from the 92W course at Fort Lee. Maybe it’s a place that gets abandoned as surviving forces coalesce around Eustis/NWS Norfolk and Little Creek/Oceana?

Good call on Fort Washington. It always seemed like a well designed place. And in good repair. I actually got the idea of people going to old coastal fortifications after exploring some of the remaining Taft era forts and seeing how well they were built as defensive works, but also how they were generally intended to be semi autonomous for short periods. Places like Fort Washington seem like just the type of location a force could establish an outpost or base of operations, being reasonably secure, putting a roof over your head, and normally (unless you’re the geniuses who surveyed Fort Monroe!) close to or on water. Great locations for everything from the local MILGOV/CIVGOV/NA unit trying to exert control, the local militia post, a survivor community, to a marauder/pirate lair.

[Homer]

One historic fort that could be occupied and worked into a number of adventures is Fort Frederick in Big Pool, MD. It’s an FIW curtain wall that’s been rebuilt and maintained as a state park. Not much else except a few structures and the state museum. But, it’s got a large cleared area around it, and ample resources for reverting, building fighting platforms, etc.

The fort sits very close to the upper Potomac and about 1500m south of I-70. Originally constructed as a base for patrols in the Potomac water gap area, it could easily do the same today.

The fort itself lies in the no-man’s land area between NA and the CIVGOV enclave around Frederick. Could be controlled by either side, or taking control of it and extending control over/blocking an easy route through the hills could be a small adventure on its own.

[Vespers War]

One historic fort that could be occupied and worked into a number of adventures is Fort Frederick in Big Pool, MD. It’s an FIW curtain wall that’s been rebuilt and maintained as a state park. Not much else except a few structures and the state museum. But, it’s got a large cleared area around it, and ample resources for reverting, building fighting platforms, etc.

The fort sits very close to the upper Potomac and about 1500m south of I-70. Originally constructed as a base for patrols in the Potomac water gap area, it could easily do the same today.

The fort itself lies in the no-man’s land area between NA and the CIVGOV enclave around Frederick. Could he controlled by either side, or taking control of it and extending control over/blocking an easy route through the hills could be a small adventure on its own.

Frederick would need a fair bit of work (I've been there a few times as well). The walls themselves are thin. It was assumed nobody could transport artillery that deep into the continent overland, which was true at the time. The bastions are 4.5 feet thick at the base (AV 8 or 9), while the walls between the bastions are 3 feet thick at the base (AV 5 or 6)

It did have small artillery pieces transported upriver, but the gun platforms were timber and dirt constructions inside the walls which no longer exist. There's currently no way to the top of the walls, which are partially original and partially rebuilt by the CCC in the 1930s. Dirt platforms/ramps could be built, but that's going to be a lot of work.

There are two reconstructed barracks buildings used as a museum (one to appear as the original would have, the other with displays of the fort's history), while a third barrack has had its foundation outlined but has not been rebuilt. There's only one gate, so it would be fairly easy to pen people up inside the fort and because of the wall design difficult to get a good view to guide indirect fire onto targets outside the fort. There also aren't any embrasures for firing out of the fort while within its walls. If you want to shoot someone outside the walls, you either have to shoot over the wall or be outside the fort yourself.

It's better than nothing as far as a shelter from lightly-armed raiders, but it's not going to stand up to any sort of heavy combat.

[dragoon500ly]

Here's an interesting link to a paper concerning the background of Civil War (American) fortifications:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA313032.pdf

This is of interest due to the large number of field fortifications left over form the war, and still reusable to varying degrees.

[Homer]

It's better than nothing as far as a shelter from lightly-armed raiders, but it's not going to stand up to any sort of heavy combat.

Yep. As a place to fight from Frederick leaves a lot to be desired. You’d need to rebuild the gun platforms and/or a firing step, and probably add a glacis outside. That said, the location still makes it suitable for its original use as a kind of “super patrol base” and there’s enough local material and land to do defensive improvements and to build outerworks.

The walls themselves aren’t much good for defense, but they do provide shelter and protection, and there’s enough space inside for mortar pits or extemporized shelter.

Could almost see it as the basis of a hardened redoubt, serving as a harbor for squad sized patrols into and out of the area.

For forts suited to actual fighting platforms against modern weapons, I’d be stretched to call most of the stuff on the interior of the US suitable. Even the modern hardened facilities weren’t designed with that use in mind.

[Vespers War]

Yep. As a place to fight from Frederick leaves a lot to be desired. You’d need to rebuild the gun platforms and/or a firing step, and probably add a glacis outside. That said, the location still makes it suitable for its original use as a kind of “super patrol base” and there’s enough local material and land to do defensive improvements and to build outerworks.

The walls themselves aren’t much good for defense, but they do provide shelter and protection, and there’s enough space inside for mortar pits or extemporized shelter.

Could almost see it as the basis of a hardened redoubt, serving as a harbor for squad sized patrols into and out of the area.

For forts suited to actual fighting platforms against modern weapons, I’d be stretched to call most of the stuff on the interior of the US suitable. Even the modern hardened facilities weren’t designed with that use in mind.

Sure, it's just that Frederick's walls are really thin. Fort Monroe is 10 feet. Castle Williams on Governors' Island is 8 feet. The Castillo de San Marcos is 14 feet of coquina. Even Fort Washington is 7 feet, albeit mostly brick with a stone entrance. I suspect Frederick's 3-to-4.5-foot walls could be breached by infantry-carried explosives with a pretty small number of devices, where most of the others would need something a little heavier or a more sustained effort. I don't think a raider squad could carry enough AT4AST to punch through the Castillo's walls, let alone less effective warheads in the anti-building role. I'm less confident in Frederick's walls.

[Homer]

Yep- I don’t think there’s a question that it’s an easy breach.

I started thinking about the older fortifications as places to hole up, but rapidly realized they were rarely, if ever, fought that way (maybe for Oswego, Carillon, and William Henry) but that most came with outerworks designed to protect the fort itself from direct assault, or at least disrupt the assault. That’s a lot of men then and especially in T2K numbers, so maybe there’s room for the actual “fortresses” (an example being McHenry or Pulaski with infantry ditches and supporting gun positions) and forts (where people seek protection-real or illusory- from the structure itself that you might see in places like Frederick or Sumter).

That said, some of the sea forts would be interesting locations for pirate bases, etc. Imagine trying to get close to Fort Jefferson surreptitiously!

Kind of makes me wonder if some of the sea and island forts may not have given a new lease on life as inspection and harbor defense stations during the first phases of the war. Pea patch island/Fort Delaware for example, is set to cover the close approaches to the Port of Wilmington and Port of Philadelphia. Probably would have been done for by the blast from the Delaware city strike, though.