Am I opening a can of worms here? I think I am...M113...

[Webstral]

The 113 is a good example of the old adage KISS. Thoroughbred race horses get girls hot, but workhorses keep the business running.

[Legbreaker]

It's an absolutely AMAZING movie. Relatively low budget, but very realistic depiction of Australian troops in operation (or just in the boozer).
Best scene EVER has to be the WP grenade at the bridge, but then I am a sadistic bastard sometimes. :p

[HorseSoldier]

Been years since I saw it, but I remember thinking it was very good. I don't know for sure if it ever saw screen time in the US, when I saw it in the early 90s it was a rental from a local video store that competed with the chains by stocking foreign films and obscuria.

[Schone23666]

Back to the 'ol M113...I think what's made the sucker so versatile to begin with is the fact that it is, indeed just a basic armored (okay, that's a misnomer, ALUMINUM) box with tracks...you really can just mix and match and do whatever you want with it.

Don't know if that was the original intention, but clever regardless. With all that said....think I'll stick with a Bradley. ;)

[ArmySGT.]

Back to the 'ol M113...I think what's made the sucker so versatile to begin with is the fact that it is, indeed just a basic armored (okay, that's a misnomer, ALUMINUM) box with tracks...you really can just mix and match and do whatever you want with it.

Don't know if that was the original intention, but clever regardless. With all that said....think I'll stick with a Bradley. ;)


Which is why I advocate for the M2 Bradley be made a Univeral Chassis and take over the M113 roles. There is an IFV, AD, Evac, Cargo, SAM, platforms. Begging for a FO/Hell fire model, 120mm Mortar carrier, APC uparmored, and Command Post models.

[bobcat]

Which is why I advocate for the M2 Bradley be made a Univeral Chassis and take over the M113 roles. There is an IFV, AD, Evac, Cargo, SAM, platforms. Begging for a FO/Hell fire model, 120mm Mortar carrier, APC uparmored, and Command Post models.

and why does every list of Bradley models neglect the one brad i've ever ridden in. the M7 Bfist. granted absolutely useless for laser guided munitions and it is the only fire support team vehicle that has that aspect neglected.:(
(hence why i'll stick to light units)

[pmulcahy11b]

and why does every list of Bradley models neglect the one brad i've ever ridden in. the M7 Bfist. granted absolutely useless for laser guided munitions and it is the only fire support team vehicle that has that aspect neglected.:(
(hence why i'll stick to light units)

Thanks for that! I had no idea the BFIST didn't have a designator! Got fix my entry...

[pmulcahy11b]

Which is why I advocate for the M2 Bradley be made a Univeral Chassis and take over the M113 roles. There is an IFV, AD, Evac, Cargo, SAM, platforms. Begging for a FO/Hell fire model, 120mm Mortar carrier, APC uparmored, and Command Post models.

The Army (or at least TACOM) is about 20 years ahead of you in that thought. Or more; we started hearing about possible Bradley-based under-armor 120mm mortar carriers back in 1987 "that would be reality in about 5 years." Unfortunately, the guys in the Pentagon and the Congress holding the pursestrings had different ideas.

[pmulcahy11b]

Back to the 'ol M113...I think what's made the sucker so versatile to begin with is the fact that it is, indeed just a basic armored (okay, that's a misnomer, ALUMINUM) box with tracks...

Could be worse -- the BMD-1's hull armor is made of MAGNESIUM alloy! Can you say "roman candle," boys and girls...

[pmulcahy11b]

It's an absolutely AMAZING movie. Relatively low budget, but very realistic depiction of Australian troops in operation (or just in the boozer).
Best scene EVER has to be the WP grenade at the bridge, but then I am a sadistic bastard sometimes. :p

I first saw that on HBO when I was in college, in the early-to-mid 1980s. It was a good movie. I thought it was funny when one guy got his pack stolen. Then he found out it was a monkey. Then he found out the monkey was a protected species and he wouldn't be allowed to shoot the thing and get his pack back. You could practically see the steam coming out of his ears...

"Who is the prick who pinched my pack!"

[Schone23666]

Could be worse -- the BMD-1's hull armor is made of MAGNESIUM alloy! Can you say "roman candle," boys and girls...

Oh, they got even better than that...the BMP's armor is made of magnesium alloy...with the fuel tanks installed in the REAR DOORS! :eek:

The term "pot roast" comes to mind for any poor bastards stuck in the things if/when they get lit up...not to mention it looks pretty damn cramped in there to begin with.

[Schone23666]

Thanks for that! I had no idea the BFIST didn't have a designator! Got fix my entry...

No designator? THAT SUCKS. It wouldnt' theoretically be hard to implement though, would it?

[Legbreaker]

Hopefully the rear doors will stay out of the line of fire. The Soviet doctrine is what, attack, attack, attack isn't it? Seems to fit in that light (and makes the crew VERY cautious about fleeing).
Couldn't a hand held designator be used instead of a mounted one? Is that perhaps the (twisted) logic behind not including a mounted one?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Oh my God...guys, I was looking for info on the M60-2000 (S120 - the Egyptians want 1500 of those mo-fos...how cool is that!) and I found the M1 Abrams equivalent of ol' Sparks the Gavin Fetishist.

Behold! (http://www.powmadeak47.com/tanky/abrams.html)

[Graebarde]

Could be worse -- the BMD-1's hull armor is made of MAGNESIUM alloy! Can you say "roman candle," boys and girls...

You got that right. When I was a bastard child of a bastard child (infantry rifle augmentee to MP platoon on ADA missle battery) back ~70, one of the missle jocks told me the vans they had their radar and fire controls in were a magnesium alloy. It was for a purpose too, since one thermite set the whole van up, in theroy at least destroying everything in it. There was also a no flame rule within at least 25 feet IIRC, though that wasn't my balliwack.

FB

[Panther Al]

Well, have to admit, I was shocked earlier.


Was looking up some info on various airframes and was doing an in depth look at the A10. I found this site:

http://www.combatreform.org/aircommandos.htm

At first, not so bad. Some good points made, but a little over the top at times. In fact, it reminded me of ole Sparky himself.

Read further, again, a few good points, even more out there, and then, proof!

In one section he talks about a modified OA10B, loaded with high end electronics and sensors (Which defeats the whole rugged and simple thing, but..) and called it a Super Hog. Which dovetailed well with an Army Vehicle he felt served the same basic role in the Army: The M113 *Super* Gavin.

Yes, *SUPER* Gavin!

[pmulcahy11b]

Oh my God...guys, I was looking for info on the M60-2000 (S120 - the Egyptians want 1500 of those mo-fos...how cool is that!) and I found the M1 Abrams equivalent of ol' Sparks the Gavin Fetishist.

Behold! (http://www.powmadeak47.com/tanky/abrams.html)

I find that site...confusing in a vaguely disturbing way.

[HorseSoldier]

The guy at that website seems really angry about a range of topics . . .

Or maybe it's all just New American agitprop.

[ArmySGT.]

Man, I cannot believe I wasted ten minutes even looking at that site.

[dragoon500ly]

After looking through the site, I find that I need a bottle of Bayer Extra Strength!

[ArmySGT.]

The author of that website needs a suppository.

[Legbreaker]

I spent about 30 seconds on the first page and that was enough to need a long hot shower and a BIG bar of soap.

[Targan]

I spent about 30 seconds on the first page and that was enough to need a long hot shower and a BIG bar of soap.

Prison flashback, Leg? :D

[ArmySGT.]

The T-90 versus the M1 Abrams from the Russian perspective. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAofuApy5sc&feature=related)

[Legbreaker]

Prison flashback, Leg? :D

Boy scouts... ;)

[ArmySGT.]

Did this thread run out of gas?
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Morrow%20Project/FMTVwithfuelpods.jpg

[bobcat]

No designator? THAT SUCKS. It wouldnt' theoretically be hard to implement though, would it?

well considering the designater weighs 100lbs and is bigger than a CRT TV. without the battery pack included. not really something that can be implemented for T2K.

mercs2K you could probably do something with a soflam but i doubt you'd be able the improvise something that would be accurate for use when buttoned up.

[ArmySGT.]

well considering the designater weighs 100lbs and is bigger than a CRT TV. without the battery pack included. not really something that can be implemented for T2K.

mercs2K you could probably do something with a soflam but i doubt you'd be able the improvise something that would be accurate for use when buttoned up.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/TW2K/M151ProtectorRWS.jpg

I think you will see something coming soon.

[bobcat]

yeah laser range finders, not designators. and not good beyond a couple miles. at that range hell i'd let the tankers take care of it while dressing as a shrubbery and laseing targets with a soflam (or map and compass and dumb artillery) at 10 kilometers a mere degree of error in mounting would throw your rounds off target by roughly 1,700 meters.

now for twilight 2000 the best kit in that timeline for designating a target is the G/VLLD. great peice of gear until someone asks you to ruck it anywhere.

[ArmySGT.]

That is the Block I with the new smaller Laser Range finder.

So combined with FBCB2 the TC can call accurate artillery fire (dumb arty) simply by virtue of know where the stryker is and where the enemy is.

Good ole Polar.

This is the Common ROWS and I think Laser Designation is slotted to go in there in later models.

This source material is at least five years old so Block II or Block III may be fitted now and not just on Strykers. but MRAPS and M1s with TUSK.

[Panther Al]

That is the Block I with the new smaller Laser Range finder.

So combined with FBCB2 the TC can call accurate artillery fire (dumb arty) simply by virtue of know where the stryker is and where the enemy is.

Good ole Polar.

This is the Common ROWS and I think Laser Designation is slotted to go in there in later models.

This source material is at least five years old so Block II or Block III may be fitted now and not just on Strykers. but MRAPS and M1s with TUSK.

Not to mention in the A2 we always had a 10 digit grid to where we was, and then lased targets way the hell out there, and get 10 digits for them as well. Made calling fire pretty easy when you can give the bunnies a 10 digit to aim at.

Not that they would be able to shoot that accurately...

[ArmySGT.]

The accuracy of the average Gun Bunny is 100%.


They never fail to hit something.

[dragoon500ly]

The accuracy of the average Gun Bunny is 100%.


They never fail to hit something.

That's because our Field Artillery brothers consider everything in front of their gun tubes to be a target...

[bobcat]

yes good enough for dumb munitions. im refering to the expensive laser guided stuff. bradley lacks that capability but every other FSV we have does.

hell with a map and compass and a clue where i am i was able to hit anything i could identify in my bino's with less than the doctrinal number of adjusting rounds.
but i can't shoot lasers out of my eyeballs to guide a hellfire onto a moving target very well.
(that would be an awesome super power to have though)

[dragoon500ly]

yes good enough for dumb munitions. im refering to the expensive laser guided stuff. bradley lacks that capability but every other FSV we have does.

hell with a map and compass and a clue where i am i was able to hit anything i could identify in my bino's with less than the doctrinal number of adjusting rounds.
but i can't shoot lasers out of my eyeballs to guide a hellfire onto a moving target very well.
(that would be an awesome super power to have though)

Even more awesome would be the ability to shoot hellfires out of your eyes...this would really be useful during rush hour traffic in I-10!

:D

[ArmySGT.]

yes good enough for dumb munitions. im refering to the expensive laser guided stuff. bradley lacks that capability but every other FSV we have does.

hell with a map and compass and a clue where i am i was able to hit anything i could identify in my bino's with less than the doctrinal number of adjusting rounds.
but i can't shoot lasers out of my eyeballs to guide a hellfire onto a moving target very well.
(that would be an awesome super power to have though)

True but how often does one really need a laser guided munition when CNN or their Senior Rater isn't watching.

I would be happy with the Bunnies turning grid squares into mud with dumb bombs in a boring regularity.

[ArmySGT.]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Makes%20me%20laugh/the%20game/1287022305717.jpg

[B.T.]

Does anyone of you have good pictures of the M113A3's driver's compartment? I have some pictures, in which I can see the steering "wheel", but these are not good enough to build it from scratch.
Some more pictures of the interior would be a great help.

I'd like to build a M113A3 (hrm, a model, off course) in an T2k environment, but the model kits I know usually show the A2 driver's place.

[ArmySGT.]

Does anyone of you have good pictures of the M113A3's driver's compartment? I have some pictures, in which I can see the steering "wheel", but these are not good enough to build it from scratch.
Some more pictures of the interior would be a great help.

I'd like to build a M113A3 (hrm, a model, off course) in an T2k environment, but the model kits I know usually show the A2 driver's place.
About halfway down the page. Drawings.
https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/6594-1/accp/od1712/le1.htm;jsessionid=0GGlLrxJqQQQMy2ZbVDCXBwy2hjgrVl JGkzvqw2SQJswrvdhhDKV!20304345

Photo.

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6380&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Tech Manual

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13776041/Carrier-Personnel-Full-Tracked-Armored-m113a3