PF 006 Lonestar.

[ArmySGT.]

For those of you who have been wanting a War......... The Members of Combined MARS and Science Team 13 enter a world of storm and slaughter to try and accomplish an impossible mission. They find themselves in a desperate, last-ditch battle against merciless savages. Buffeted by a killer storm, in a land filled with refugees, they join the Last Cavalry Unit in the fight for survival.

[dragoon500ly]

So TMP builds underground bases, recruits and stores teams around the country...and can't afford the 1,000 dollars for a satellite dish and has to take over the Johnson Space Center?!?!?!?!?!

The introduction of the First Cavalry Division (Lonestar) is an interesting and one with lots of room for development, not to mention the survivor gangs below the old border.

[ArmySGT.]

OMG do I really, really, really despise the whole Air cushioned vehicle as a Project Machine.

I really, really do. The SK-5 was a Navy toy for interdiction in inland waterways and swamps. The Mekong delta for sure. I hate it. Not that I am fond of boats anyway. This thing is an annoying pin pick for the bad guys, it zooms by, shoots wildly, and hauls ass out to avoid return fire...... Harrassment fire at best. Royally screwed if the terrain is not favorable.

I am opting that and the Bolthole afloat concept out. Completely along with the other two ACVs. Somebody at Timeline thought these were sexy and cool. Damned if I know why.

[LBraden]

I can see the whole point of a Hovercraft in swampy terrain, it makes a lot of sense, however, if I was to run a game there, I would have this sort of loadout:

2x 1 Man hovercraft recon
1x Inshore Patrol Boat, Armed and with medium steel plate armour (think the boats from Vietnam
1x Medium sized fully enclosed boat - Science equipment (similar to size as -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyne_class_lifeboat or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey_class_lifeboat )
1x Flatpack swamp boat - stowed on Science boat

[Matt W]

Hovercraft and helicopters have similar maintenance requirements. I suggest that the ACV units could be replaced with a couple of Chinooks (stats are already in Prime Base) although a "Jolly Green Giant" would be useful too.

[mikeo80]

So TMP builds underground bases, recruits and stores teams around the country...and can't afford the 1,000 dollars for a satellite dish and has to take over the Johnson Space Center?!?!?!?!?!

IMHO, this is not how I read this module. IF the First Cav and TMP can beat off the howling mobs from SOTB, then it might (repeat, might) be possible for the JSC to be used to contact Morrow Satellite. I do not read this as original planning. This is something for the GM to think about IF the team goes into the future. If they die at JSC, then do not worry about it.

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

Decided to resurrect this one.

This is the largest single group most similar to pre-War America.

The 1st Cavalry Division is a nice touch, but the weaponry kills me. The author I felt was trying to hard to recreate the Old West. These guys were blue denim uniforms and ride horses. They carry Krag Jorgenson rifles and use gatling guns for support. Unless they need M1 tanks and Bradly fighting vehicles?

Personally, I like to think of it as all the elements are there just the right sequence of events and the people needed to make it happen aren't there.

So my stab at a plausible reason for the vast differences in the technology is the War hit the education and training establishment hard. Not only were universities lost to nuclear hits but, the population was decimated by war plagues as people came to the colleges and universities looking for help.

There was precious few left to pass on knowledge to many. Here and there someone passed on something even if it was some repair manuals and some tools.

So my take is the Morrow Projects greatest gift to the Lone Star Republic will be teaching the people and guiding the government to keep it a representative one like it is. I think they are churning out enough warriors to fight the Brotherhood.

[ArmySGT.]

So this is the 1st Armored Division Order of Battle for Desert Storm in 1991.

Seems close enough for me to consider what can be surviving equipment and units post the 19 November 1989 war date for 3rd edition.

Might be nice to put unit names and colors to the all horse conversions, and to know which units remain mechanized for the threat from the south.

http://www.tim-thompson.com/gwob1stcav.html

1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division

3d Battalion, 32d Armor (Fort Hood) (M-1A1)
2d Battalion, 5th Cavalry (Fort Hood) [M-2]
1st Battalion, 8th Cavalry (Fort Hood) [M-1]
2d Battalion, 8th Cavalry (Fort Hood) [M-1]

2d Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division

1st Battalion, 32d Armor (Fort Hood) (M-1A1)
1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry (Fort Hood) [M-2]

1st Cavalry Division Artillery

Battery A, 21st Field Artillery [Fort Hood] (MLRS)
Battery A, 333d Field Artillery (Fort Hood) (Target Acquisition Battery)
1st Battalion, 82d Field Artillery [Fort Hood] (M-109) [DS 1st Brigade]
3d Battalion, 82d Field Artillery [Fort Hood] (M-109A3) [DS 2d Brigade]

Cavalry Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division

1st Battalion, 3d Aviation (Fort Hood) (Attack; AH-64)
1st Battalion, 227th Aviation (Fort Hood) (Attack; AH-64)
Company D, 227th Aviation (Fort Hood) (Command)
Company E, 227th Aviation (Fort Hood) (Assault;UH-60)
2d Squadron, 1st Cavalry (-Air Troop) (Fort Hood) (attached from 2d Armored Division)
1st Squadron, 7th Cavalry (Fort Hood) (M-3)

1st Cavalry Division Support Command

Company F, 227th Aviation (Fort Hood) (AVIM)
15th Support Battalion (Forward) [DS 2d Brigade] (Fort Hood)
27th Support Battalion (Main) (Fort Hood)
115th Support Battalion (Forward) [DS 1st Brigade] (Fort Hood)
1st Cavalry Division Band (Fort Hood)
68th Chemical Company (NBC Defense) (Fort Hood)
157th Ordnance Detachment (TOW/Dragon)(Fort Hood) (attached)
4th Battalion, 5th Air Defense Artillery[Vulcan/Stinger/Avenger] (Fort Hood) [Battalion underwent several organizational transitions during deployment, most significantly gaining three additional Avenger Platoons (formed from personnel of 2d Armored Division's 2d Battalion, 5th Air Defense Artillery) and forming Battery D on 10 December 1990 to control the Avenger assets]
Reconnaissance Platoon, 22d Chemical Company (Frankfurt) (attached from 3d Armored Division)
8th Engineer Battalion (Fort Hood)
123d Engineer Detachment (Terrain) (Fort Hood)
557th Engineer Detachment (Terrain) (Fort Hood)
312th Military Intelligence Battalion (CEWI)(Fort Hood)
545th Military Police Company(Fort Hood)
13th Signal Battalion (Division MSE) (Fort Hood)

OPCON and Attached Units:

44th Chemical Company (NBC Defense) [company (-) consisted of only one smoke and one decon platoon in direct support of 1st Cavalry Division Support Command; one decon platoon served with 1st Brigade, 2d Armored Division; another decon platoon served with 1st Infantry Division] (Fort Hood)
413th Civil Affairs Company (USAR, TX)
145th Public Affairs Detachment (OK ARNG)

[ArmySGT.]

I must also do III Corps and the other tenant units at Ft. Hood.

The Ft. Sam Houston, and then process the Air Force bases in the region.

Texas has a military presence greater than some countries.

[dragoon500ly]

Lone star has a lot of holes...number one being the off-site bolt disguised as part of an oil rig. Living on the Gulf Coast, there is this little weather problem known as a hurricane, take the time to run NOAA's storm-tracker, there are lot of hurricanes that blow through the area, anyone want to take the odds on a Cat 4 or Cat 5 nailing the facility? Truely the odds of the facility lasting 150 years, makes one want to blow a few thousand dollars playing the lottery!

Then we have the hovercrafts, the absolute worst choice for moving through storm surges...I'd rather place them in Michigan and assign high dieroll modifiers for frost bite.

Parts of Lonestar I love, 1st Cavalry has shown up in several games, but I always convert the bolt hole to a land facility and trot out V-150!!!

[.45cultist]

Decided to resurrect this one.

This is the largest single group most similar to pre-War America.

The 1st Cavalry Division is a nice touch, but the weaponry kills me. The author I felt was trying to hard to recreate the Old West. These guys were blue denim uniforms and ride horses. They carry Krag Jorgenson rifles and use gatling guns for support. Unless they need M1 tanks and Bradly fighting vehicles?

Personally, I like to think of it as all the elements are there just the right sequence of events and the people needed to make it happen aren't there.

So my stab at a plausible reason for the vast differences in the technology is the War hit the education and training establishment hard. Not only were universities lost to nuclear hits but, the population was decimated by war plagues as people came to the colleges and universities looking for help.

There was precious few left to pass on knowledge to many. Here and there someone passed on something even if it was some repair manuals and some tools.

So my take is the Morrow Projects greatest gift to the Lone Star Republic will be teaching the people and guiding the government to keep it a representative one like it is. I think they are churning out enough warriors to fight the Brotherhood.

I was thinking of raising the division to WWI levels, .45 M1911's and S&W M1917 revolvers, either the more robust M1894 .30-30 or M1903 rifles. The M2HB sloldiers on and perhaps a copy of the M1919 variants. Khaki uniforms and Sam Brown belts, Patton swords and M1910 cav gear. But with the TNG armor, one could add more tanks.in reserve in the North. here is an example.

[tsofian]

This is one of my favorite concepts for a module, but the execution is lacking. First off the idea that the badly outnumbered, poorly armed and disorganized savages are pushing the Texans back makes no sense. The Texans having running tanks but no aircraft makes no sense. The MP vehicles are not very practical. The scout vehicle is nearly useless. It might be cute to play on a pond but for it to be miles out to sea is just death waiting for its crewman.

The St Louis crew ran this at several conventions as the opening scenario. I've also run it for in house games. I change up things a lot. The Savages get a big silent partner who hammers the Texans before and during the invasion. The MP vehicles get a big of a makeover as well. The little recon hover gets replaced with a hefty ducted fan rotorcraft that has two seat, is fully enclosed can fly above ground effect and carries a minigun and a stinger pod as well as a suite of sensors and ECM and is very stealthy.

[ArmySGT.]

I was thinking of raising the division to WWI levels, .45 M1911's and S&W M1917 revolvers, either the more robust M1894 .30-30 or M1903 rifles. The M2HB soldiers on and perhaps a copy of the M1919 variants. Khaki uniforms and Sam Brown belts, Patton swords and M1910 cav gear. But with the TNG armor, one could add more tanks.in reserve in the North. here is an example.

M1917 revolvers are far simpler for a lower tech level to produce than the M1911. The M1911 requires milling machines and highly trained machinists making multiple setups and many, many, cuts. I would stick with the M1903 for the rifle, as the modules Krag-Jorgenson's are mechanically more difficult with the rotary magazine to justify manufacture. Additionally, the M1903 has a three lug bolt (it's a Mauser copy after all) and a much stronger action. I would throw in a twist with M1903s in 7.62 NATO instead of 30.06 since that is the brass and dies the Republic had. Probably would nerf them a bit because of lower quality propellants do drop 2 points off damage.

For uniforms...... I would stick with the blue denim and stetsons for the cavalry... It's Texas and that is all the justification they need. On the other hand..... the WW1 khakis, canvas web gear, and doughboy helmets is perfect for the Infantry and Armor troops of the Republic... justify this by saying patterns came from collectors and museums post war salvage.

As for a machinegun... going with the BAR for everyone with the exception of the M1 and M2 coaxial MGs. That the Republic does not have the tooling or equipment to make disintegrating link belts, thus all such are hoarded for the tanks and IFVs.

Grenades...... German potato mashers.. the complicated fuses of even the MK1 pineapple or british Mills bomb are out of the Republics reach. The friction pull igniter is not. Therefore, Republic grenades are the wooden handle variety with HE, Frag, and smoke being most common with a large demo variety and a 2kg charge for Engineers being uncommon.

Totally Ok with swords, sabers, trench knives, maces, spears, and lances.. though I would suggest working up a quick reference chart for damage based on PC or NPC strength and modifiers against types of armors to keep game play moving.

Anti armor weapons.. none modern. The threat from the Brotherhood comes as a surprise.. the M1s are the only AT defense with infantry or cavalry improvising using HE grenades and demo packs in close defense. TMP members don't have time to teach making mines, pole charges, and rockets, plus there isn't time for the Republic to make them. The Republic is going to make a crash program to make molotovs and ship those to infantry or militia in the defense.

Artillery.... The Republic doesn't seem to have any. We might assume that self propelled and towed versions did not survive the nuke strike on Ft. Hood. Additionally, no mortars... I chalk that up to no pressing need with the highly mobile horse mounted tactics of the Cavalry versus low tech and unsophisticated tactics of previous bandit threats. Something the TMP won't have time to teach and the Republic has no time to build.

Communications....... write it down and send a rider. Everything is worn out, broken, cannabalized, or destroyed. Even phone lines are out without a means to insulate cables.

Fuel..... actually, in abundance. Oils, grease, gasoline, diesel, and solvents in significant quantities...... Distribution is primitive and inefficient. Pipelines are proposed with effort into how to make pipe, valves, and hardwared being researched. The Republic doesn't have significant smelting and casting infrastructure.

Food. Abundant, but primitive. Rations are cooked at field kitchens or field bakeries. Luxurious, nutritious, and wholesome compared to the field rations of centuries before. TMP members will be curious about the hard tack, dried beef, dried vegetables, or fruit of the infantry or cavalry marching rations. The garrison and forward field kitchens produce hot meals twice a day of cereals, soups, stews, and anything else that can be boiled, baked, or fried.

[.45cultist]

M1917 revolvers are far simpler for a lower tech level to produce than the M1911. The M1911 requires milling machines and highly trained machinists making multiple setups and many, many, cuts. I would stick with the M1903 for the rifle, as the modules Krag-Jorgenson's are mechanically more difficult with the rotary magazine to justify manufacture. Additionally, the M1903 has a three lug bolt (it's a Mauser copy after all) and a much stronger action. I would throw in a twist with M1903s in 7.62 NATO instead of 30.06 since that is the brass and dies the Republic had. Probably would nerf them a bit because of lower quality propellants do drop 2 points off damage.

For uniforms...... I would stick with the blue denim and stetsons for the cavalry... It's Texas and that is all the justification they need. On the other hand..... the WW1 khakis, canvas web gear, and doughboy helmets is perfect for the Infantry and Armor troops of the Republic... justify this by saying patterns came from collectors and museums post war salvage.

As for a machinegun... going with the BAR for everyone with the exception of the M1 and M2 coaxial MGs. That the Republic does not have the tooling or equipment to make disintegrating link belts, thus all such are hoarded for the tanks and IFVs.

Grenades...... German potato mashers.. the complicated fuses of even the MK1 pineapple or british Mills bomb are out of the Republics reach. The friction pull igniter is not. Therefore, Republic grenades are the wooden handle variety with HE, Frag, and smoke being most common with a large demo variety and a 2kg charge for Engineers being uncommon.

Totally Ok with swords, sabers, trench knives, maces, spears, and lances.. though I would suggest working up a quick reference chart for damage based on PC or NPC strength and modifiers against types of armors to keep game play moving.

Anti armor weapons.. none modern. The threat from the Brotherhood comes as a surprise.. the M1s are the only AT defense with infantry or cavalry improvising using HE grenades and demo packs in close defense. TMP members don't have time to teach making mines, pole charges, and rockets, plus there isn't time for the Republic to make them. The Republic is going to make a crash program to make molotovs and ship those to infantry or militia in the defense.

Artillery.... The Republic doesn't seem to have any. We might assume that self propelled and towed versions did not survive the nuke strike on Ft. Hood. Additionally, no mortars... I chalk that up to no pressing need with the highly mobile horse mounted tactics of the Cavalry versus low tech and unsophisticated tactics of previous bandit threats. Something the TMP won't have time to teach and the Republic has no time to build.

Communications....... write it down and send a rider. Everything is worn out, broken, cannabalized, or destroyed. Even phone lines are out without a means to insulate cables.

Fuel..... actually, in abundance. Oils, grease, gasoline, diesel, and solvents in significant quantities...... Distribution is primitive and inefficient. Pipelines are proposed with effort into how to make pipe, valves, and hardwared being researched. The Republic doesn't have significant smelting and casting infrastructure.

Food. Abundant, but primitive. Rations are cooked at field kitchens or field bakeries. Luxurious, nutritious, and wholesome compared to the field rations of centuries before. TMP members will be curious about the hard tack, dried beef, dried vegetables, or fruit of the infantry or cavalry marching rations. The garrison and forward field kitchens produce hot meals twice a day of cereals, soups, stews, and anything else that can be boiled, baked, or fried.

All this is good stuff, I'll make M1911's a luxury item, extended to all semi-auto pistols by some, including bandits. Rangers and senators and wealthy ranchers will have them, some having plain working sidearms as well as BBQ guns(senators might have a pristine nickeled BBQ pistol they half know to use). Some Milling machines and lathes exist, but spend a third to half their production run making spare parts for the shop and the odd new machine. M1903's minus a full stock and bayonet lug are civvie hunting rifles, same stats minus a kilo or two. The Cav denim is a mark of the "elite".

[ArmySGT.]

All this is good stuff, I'll make M1911's a luxury item, extended to all semi-auto pistols by some, including bandits. Rangers and senators and wealthy ranchers will have them, some having plain working sidearms as well as BBQ guns(senators might have a pristine nickeled BBQ pistol they half know to use). Some Milling machines and lathes exist, but spend a third to half their production run making spare parts for the shop and the odd new machine. M1903's minus a full stock and bayonet lug are civvie hunting rifles, same stats minus a kilo or two. The Cav denim is a mark of the "elite".

Get the M1911 volume 1 and 2 by Jerry Kuhnhausen. There is production notes and materials data.... It is something like 45 machining setups for the slide alone to manufacture an M1911. M1911 Volume 1 (https://www.amazon.com/45-Automatic-Expanded-Kuhnhausen-Manual/dp/B010VXI7BY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490408700&sr=8-1&keywords=Kuhnhausen)

[Project_Sardonicus]

One of the first thing any resource poor military ditches is a sidearm, better to have everyone equipped with some sort of working rifle.

I wonder if a model for the Cavalry would be something closer to Teddy Roosevelts Rough Riders? Which seemed to hit more the transitional stage the cavalry in Lonestar would be at.

e.g. mostly mounted infantry, whilst still having cavalry skills and starting to use light artillery and machine guns?

I think if the cavalry had faced any sort of serious opposition with modern rifles and the ammunition to practise marksmanship. Then high visibility blue uniforms with yellow stripes would be seen as an act of madness and lead to mutiny.

But if not and if communications are poor literally being able to see where your troops are on the field from a hill top with a telescope becomes an advantage

As it is it does raise an interesting question of what technology would a society rebuilding prioritise?

If radio communication was an essential way of getting fast reports from recon troops and moving limited forces where needed, would rebuilding even the most primitive of sets become an absolute priority?

Conversely if most of the foes you faced were bandits who couldn't shoot straight. Then would any rifle that shot accurately out to 200 yards however poor the ROF be all that you needed?

[.45cultist]

Get the M1911 volume 1 and 2 by Jerry Kuhnhausen. There is production notes and materials data.... It is something like 45 machining setups for the slide alone to manufacture an M1911. M1911 Volume 1 (https://www.amazon.com/45-Automatic-Expanded-Kuhnhausen-Manual/dp/B010VXI7BY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490408700&sr=8-1&keywords=Kuhnhausen)

They are on my list as a hobby gunsmith.

[ArmySGT.]

They are on my list as a hobby gunsmith.

I have all the M1911s, the M14, the S&W revolver books, and the Mossberg shotgun book. Definitely worth it if you own and want to work on any of those.

Sardonicus,

This Texas. If you're not sure, just ask. They will definitely remind you every third sentence or so that you are, in fact, in Texas. They will have sidearms. Cowboy cult. Gun fighter lore. Code of the West. Revolvers and autos of all types will be on every adult that can purchase one.

[.45cultist]

M1917 revolvers are far simpler for a lower tech level to produce than the M1911. The M1911 requires milling machines and highly trained machinists making multiple setups and many, many, cuts. I would stick with the M1903 for the rifle, as the modules Krag-Jorgenson's are mechanically more difficult with the rotary magazine to justify manufacture. Additionally, the M1903 has a three lug bolt (it's a Mauser copy after all) and a much stronger action. I would throw in a twist with M1903s in 7.62 NATO instead of 30.06 since that is the brass and dies the Republic had. Probably would nerf them a bit because of lower quality propellants do drop 2 points off damage.

For uniforms...... I would stick with the blue denim and stetsons for the cavalry... It's Texas and that is all the justification they need. On the other hand..... the WW1 khakis, canvas web gear, and doughboy helmets is perfect for the Infantry and Armor troops of the Republic... justify this by saying patterns came from collectors and museums post war salvage.

As for a machinegun... going with the BAR for everyone with the exception of the M1 and M2 coaxial MGs. That the Republic does not have the tooling or equipment to make disintegrating link belts, thus all such are hoarded for the tanks and IFVs.

Grenades...... German potato mashers.. the complicated fuses of even the MK1 pineapple or british Mills bomb are out of the Republics reach. The friction pull igniter is not. Therefore, Republic grenades are the wooden handle variety with HE, Frag, and smoke being most common with a large demo variety and a 2kg charge for Engineers being uncommon.

Totally Ok with swords, sabers, trench knives, maces, spears, and lances.. though I would suggest working up a quick reference chart for damage based on PC or NPC strength and modifiers against types of armors to keep game play moving.

Anti armor weapons.. none modern. The threat from the Brotherhood comes as a surprise.. the M1s are the only AT defense with infantry or cavalry improvising using HE grenades and demo packs in close defense. TMP members don't have time to teach making mines, pole charges, and rockets, plus there isn't time for the Republic to make them. The Republic is going to make a crash program to make molotovs and ship those to infantry or militia in the defense.

Artillery.... The Republic doesn't seem to have any. We might assume that self propelled and towed versions did not survive the nuke strike on Ft. Hood. Additionally, no mortars... I chalk that up to no pressing need with the highly mobile horse mounted tactics of the Cavalry versus low tech and unsophisticated tactics of previous bandit threats. Something the TMP won't have time to teach and the Republic has no time to build.

Communications....... write it down and send a rider. Everything is worn out, broken, cannabalized, or destroyed. Even phone lines are out without a means to insulate cables.

Fuel..... actually, in abundance. Oils, grease, gasoline, diesel, and solvents in significant quantities...... Distribution is primitive and inefficient. Pipelines are proposed with effort into how to make pipe, valves, and hardwared being researched. The Republic doesn't have significant smelting and casting infrastructure.

Food. Abundant, but primitive. Rations are cooked at field kitchens or field bakeries. Luxurious, nutritious, and wholesome compared to the field rations of centuries before. TMP members will be curious about the hard tack, dried beef, dried vegetables, or fruit of the infantry or cavalry marching rations. The garrison and forward field kitchens produce hot meals twice a day of cereals, soups, stews, and anything else that can be boiled, baked, or fried.

I have been thinking about this and decided that the Texas remnants might be one of the areas that might salvage machine shops and their users.

[mmartin798]

A quick search for vendors that service the petroleum industry in Texas that offer machining services yields about 100, some with mobile on-site capabilities, many of which are in the greater Houston area. If some of these were considered necessary for survival, then it is likely that a few mills and lathes may have survived. The bigger questions are: did enough skilled operators survive that can mill replacement parts for the machines, can tooling be created of sufficient quality and hardness to keep up with wear and can the generators be maintained.

I would claim that on a small scale this is possible, but whether or not it scales to the manufacturing of arms for an army is your call.

[ArmySGT.]

Machine shops require huge quantity of consumables to make product.

High speed steel to make tool bits or tungsten carbide premade bits. Those are consumed as resharpened or chipped in use. Cutting oils and kerosene for lubricating parts as these are cut and generating heat. Sand paper in strips or sheets from 80 grit to 5000 grit to polish parts for fit gets used up fast. Sandpapers think three to six feet of strips for barrel polishing. Valve grinding compound in 40 to 600 for final fitting two parts that must have below .003 tolerances like gas valves. Drill bits (especially certain preferred sizes) last from a month to a year with periodic resharpening. Same goes for reamers to be sure a hole is true to the specified diameter.

Barrel reamers (cutters or buttons) are made by few specialized shops (Pacific Tool & Gauge is one) as are the specific reamers for a chosen caliber. These come in sets of three. One and Two basically open up and establish to chamber shape and size. Number three is the Final and cuts the chamber to SAAMI specs in depth, shoulder, and leed. One and Two would last about six months if you used a drill bit to hog out material. Three or Final has to be precise and would be out of spec if you were trying to cut several chambers a day for a month.

A machine shop needs three phase 240 or 440 watt power at 60 cycles without interruptions. Any loss or power that fluctuates will cause imprecise cuts a trained machinists would need to assess and recut.

Most of all a machine shop needs steel, iron, aluminum, copper, and lead in pure or as alloys in correct ratios. Most salvaged metals can't be trusted to make parts that must endure with out destructive testing first for hardness, ductility, etc, etc.

The Republic is must build a blast furnace to be fed with coke (cooked coal) and some metallurgists that know how to add in alloys like chromium, manganese, boron, and others to make steels for various purposes.

That is why I think the Republic and the KFS have a trade established about New Orleans with beef, ammonium nitrate, leather, motor oil, gear oil, lamp oil, kerosene, diesel, and plastic pellets going to the KFS. The KFS is sending back textiles, machine shop consumables, containers (55 gallon and 30 gallon drums, metal boxes with lids, and assorted tupperware or glass jars with lids), and horses for the Cavalry.

[Matt W]

That is why I think the Republic and the KFS have a trade established about New Orleans with beef, ammonium nitrate, leather, motor oil, gear oil, lamp oil, kerosene, diesel, and plastic pellets going to the KFS. The KFS is sending back textiles, machine shop consumables, containers (55 gallon and 30 gallon drums, metal boxes with lids, and assorted tupperware or glass jars with lids), and horses for the Cavalry.

Agreed.

There should be trade between the major "industrial" nations. But I don't think you have to go all the way to New Orleans. Somewhere like Vicksburg might be a "free city" that trades with Texas and KFS if you include Truckers .

A minor detail I would add is that synthetic rubber should be on the list of Texas exports. Somebody has to make tyres for the Truckers and Bikers

[ArmySGT.]

Agreed.

There should be trade between the major "industrial" nations. But I don't think you have to go all the way to New Orleans. Somewhere like Vicksburg might be a "free city" that trades with Texas and KFS if you include Truckers .

A minor detail I would add is that synthetic rubber should be on the list of Texas exports. Somebody has to make tyres for the Truckers and Bikers

Truckers and bikers works. I was thinking of the Shipmen/Boatmen... I would have sworn there was a separate encounter group for the traders/pirates moving cargo and people up and down the Ohio, Upper Mississippi, Illinois and Tennessee.

[ArmySGT.]

I like New Orleans as a trade center just for the historical reference to it always having been one. Vicksburg works too, maybe the Natchez Trace is once again running mule trains?

[mmartin798]

The problem with New Orleans is that the Mississippi River likely would have changed course and no longer empties near it. The Army Corp of Engineers fights a continuous battle to maintain the course of the Mississippi at no small cost. It would not take long for the Old River Control Structure (ORCS) to fail.

This was a major concern in the late 70's, since the flood of 1973 almost did undermine the ORCS. There was a paper written about the physical and economic consequences of such a failure in 1980 by two professors at Louisiana State University. An excerpt from the abstract reads:

"Were a major flood to destroy the ability of the ORCS to control the distribuion of flow between the Lower Mississippi River and the Atchafalaya River, then major flooding would occur in the Atchafalaya Basin, highway and railroad bridges would be destroyed, gas pipelines severed, and industrial production along the Mississippi River between Baton Rouge (BR) and New Orleans (NO) would be reduced. The dry weather period following the flood would result in reduced discharges in the river between BR and NO. This would permit salt water from the Gulf of Mexico to fill what is now the main stem of the river. The present channel would become a salt water estuary of the Gulf of Mexico."

It goes on to discuss the saltwater making existing potable water supplies unusable requiring a plan to replace them. It is a good read if you want a realistic idea of what likely happens in the lower Mississippi River after the war. The paper is the "Louisiana Water Resources Research Institute, Bulletin 12, September 1980". Using that as a search term in Google will take you to a PDF of the entire paper.

[ArmySGT.]

My recollection is imperfect, but wasn't the city of New Orleans far removed from the ports and docks until very recent modern times?

Miles and miles if I am not mistaken.

[dragoon500ly]

The problems with the Mississippi River and its change of directions over 150 years on non-human control will almost certainly make New Orleans-Vicksburg-Baton Rouge almost useless as ports, on the other hand Mobile Bay would almost certainly be still usable, so how about a shipping route from Mobile Bay to Galveston or Port Arthur?

For Lonestar's long term plans, the Republic's efforts to recapture Galveston and reopen the trade route would be interesting.

[ArmySGT.]

The problems with the Mississippi River and its change of directions over 150 years on non-human control will almost certainly make New Orleans-Vicksburg-Baton Rouge almost useless as ports, on the other hand Mobile Bay would almost certainly be still usable, so how about a shipping route from Mobile Bay to Galveston or Port Arthur?

For Lonestar's long term plans, the Republic's efforts to recapture Galveston and reopen the trade route would be interesting.

Fair enough. The mighty Miss is to valuable as a carrier to commercial freight with access all the way to the Great Lakes. Carrying freight almost for free with the current. The KFS could be taking over all freight going up stream. A fusion powered tug boat pulling multiple barges would be very, very, very profitable. Something that TMP personnel would be interested in because of its long term reconstruction efforts and at the same time the way that strengthens KFS power.

Also, there is the chance to throw in mysterious sailing ships that come from the Caribbean with sugar, spices, coffee, rum, and cocaine.

[dragoon500ly]

Fair enough. The mighty Miss is to valuable as a carrier to commercial freight with access all the way to the Great Lakes. Carrying freight almost for free with the current. The KFS could be taking over all freight going up stream. A fusion powered tug boat pulling multiple barges would be very, very, very profitable. Something that TMP personnel would be interested in because of its long term reconstruction efforts and at the same time the way that strengthens KFS power.

Also, there is the chance to throw in mysterious sailing ships that come from the Caribbean with sugar, spices, coffee, rum, and cocaine.

Also explains the KFS interest in the Ohio/Tennessee/Mississippi Rivers network. I can see a small flotilla of river boats tug boats and barges trading KFS goods throughout the Midwest. Talk about a stranglehold on trade!

As far as a nuclear powered MP tug boat...Hit the sledgehammer website, there is a very nice write up on a project ship that can be used for the river and intercoastal trade and its large enough for the island trade.

[ArmySGT.]

Hit the sledgehammer website,

A name without a link? Are you taunting me, Sir?

[dragoon500ly]

My apologies, it's the supply bunker website, never, ever use a BlackBerry for anything important!!!

[ArmySGT.]

BlackBerry

2000 called. Wants to know where you have been.

[nuke11]

2000 called. Wants to know where you have been.
Actually the current Android based BlackBerry's are very good.

It might be this one: http://www.thesupplybunker.net/sjackson/snj0101.html

[dragoon500ly]

2000 called. Wants to know where you have been.

Sorry, I work for the government, we still have, and use, typewriters and carbon paper. Our email system still tries to translate into Chinese...and a certain Army base STILL uses 8 inch disk drives and Tandy computers for its logistical system.

Remember! The Department of Defense, still maintains warehouses with Civil War era small arms and cannons, Spanish-American War uniforms, World War 2 rations and a wide variety of junk from the last 150 years. We are prepared to fight all of America's wars, simultaneously and with period correct equipment.

Now I have to board my airship and inspect DOD property in Kuwait, and report my findings via telegraph! :confused::cool:

[ArmySGT.]

We are prepared to fight all of America's wars, simultaneously and with period correct equipment.

That part made me laugh right there!

[mmartin798]

Playing Operation Lonestar at epic difficulty.

The bolt hole computer wakes the team because of the flooding, the vehicles can't launch and the team escapes in these. Proceed as normal.

http://survival-capsule.com/Products.html

[tsofian]

Do they paddle to shore?

[Sprocketteer]

Remember! The Department of Defense, still maintains warehouses with Civil War era small arms and cannons, Spanish-American War uniforms, World War 2 rations and a wide variety of junk from the last 150 years. We are prepared to fight all of America's wars, simultaneously and with period correct equipment.



Shhh! These are stockpiled for use by Voltigeurs who travel back to the past as part of The Bureau of Temporal Affairs *


*Time & Time Again rpg, by Timeline ltd.

[mmartin798]

Do they paddle to shore?

No one said it would be easy.

[tsofian]

OMG do I really, really, really despise the whole Air cushioned vehicle as a Project Machine.

I really, really do. The SK-5 was a Navy toy for interdiction in inland waterways and swamps. The Mekong delta for sure. I hate it. Not that I am fond of boats anyway. This thing is an annoying pin pick for the bad guys, it zooms by, shoots wildly, and hauls ass out to avoid return fire...... Harrassment fire at best. Royally screwed if the terrain is not favorable.

I am opting that and the Bolthole afloat concept out. Completely along with the other two ACVs. Somebody at Timeline thought these were sexy and cool. Damned if I know why.

I think you are misjudging the ACV. The SK-5 also served with the Army in Vietnam and then the machines were transferred to the Coast Guard where they worked doing SAR.

ACVs have done a number of very impressive exploration voyages

http://kickasstrips.com/2014/06/the-8000km-trans-african-hovercraft-expedition-of-1969/

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/01/07/Cousteau-plans-biggest-ever-expedition-to-Amazon/9284379227600/

http://kickasstrips.com/2016/02/by-hovercraft-across-south-america-2500-miles-from-manaus-brazil-to-port-of-spain-trinidad/

https://cgaviationhistory.org/1970-evaluation-of-hovercraft-suitability-for-coast-guard-use-conducted/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Air_Cushion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_Air_Cushion_Vehicle

ACV's can cross something like 80% of the coastlines of the oceans, and in the Gulf I'd be hard pressed to think of any parts of the coast of texas, Louisiana, Mississippi or Florida where an ACV can't make landfall (unless heavy forest goes all the way down to the water. They can travel from the oceans, over any bars at the mouth and up to the headwaters of the major rivers in the region.

I've ridden a civilian ACV in the Solent through about 10 foot swells. The ride was rough but service was maintained. It was a little like a roller coaster, super fun!

CT-13 can use ACVs effectively and the region is particularly suitable for such operations. in the 5-10 year time frame even the growing of trees will probably not be enough to exclude ACVs from most landfalls.

That being said the machines in the module, except for the Science Machine are pretty lame. I upgraded the MARS vehicle with a pair of rocket pods and 2 40mm AGLs on side mounted pylons to supplement the 20mm (now a 25mm Bushmaster). It gets a 50 cal on a central pintle mount as well as the two existing M60 side gunners. In addition add a decent sensor suite.

The Recon machine gets replaced with a Stealth Ducted Fan Helicopter. This is a fancy two seat machine consisting of a kevlar shell with a big central fan. It seats two and has all sorts sensors and countermeasures. It is armed with a minigun in an Emerson MiniTat turret and a pair of Stingers. This is fast and can fly high and is basically invisible to most sensors, passive or active.

[tsofian]

Machine shops require huge quantity of consumables to make product.

High speed steel to make tool bits or tungsten carbide premade bits. Those are consumed as resharpened or chipped in use. Cutting oils and kerosene for lubricating parts as these are cut and generating heat. Sand paper in strips or sheets from 80 grit to 5000 grit to polish parts for fit gets used up fast. Sandpapers think three to six feet of strips for barrel polishing. Valve grinding compound in 40 to 600 for final fitting two parts that must have below .003 tolerances like gas valves. Drill bits (especially certain preferred sizes) last from a month to a year with periodic resharpening. Same goes for reamers to be sure a hole is true to the specified diameter.

Barrel reamers (cutters or buttons) are made by few specialized shops (Pacific Tool & Gauge is one) as are the specific reamers for a chosen caliber. These come in sets of three. One and Two basically open up and establish to chamber shape and size. Number three is the Final and cuts the chamber to SAAMI specs in depth, shoulder, and leed. One and Two would last about six months if you used a drill bit to hog out material. Three or Final has to be precise and would be out of spec if you were trying to cut several chambers a day for a month.

A machine shop needs three phase 240 or 440 watt power at 60 cycles without interruptions. Any loss or power that fluctuates will cause imprecise cuts a trained machinists would need to assess and recut.

Most of all a machine shop needs steel, iron, aluminum, copper, and lead in pure or as alloys in correct ratios. Most salvaged metals can't be trusted to make parts that must endure with out destructive testing first for hardness, ductility, etc, etc.

The Republic is must build a blast furnace to be fed with coke (cooked coal) and some metallurgists that know how to add in alloys like chromium, manganese, boron, and others to make steels for various purposes.

That is why I think the Republic and the KFS have a trade established about New Orleans with beef, ammonium nitrate, leather, motor oil, gear oil, lamp oil, kerosene, diesel, and plastic pellets going to the KFS. The KFS is sending back textiles, machine shop consumables, containers (55 gallon and 30 gallon drums, metal boxes with lids, and assorted tupperware or glass jars with lids), and horses for the Cavalry.

Machine shops do not need electricity at all. They need an energy source but it could be steam or hydraulic to name two. There was a long period when all the machines in a shop were powered by belt drives off line shafts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D_V5smCaOw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_shaft

Perfect alloys make equipment last a lot longer, but they aren't required. Most of the alloys you mention didn't come into general use until well after the 1903 Springfield was in production. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel#History

Also steel is widely recycled today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrap#Ferrous_metal_recycling so getting it graded and sorted is not only possibly but commercially viable.

[ArmySGT.]

Machine shops do not need electricity at all. They need an energy source but it could be steam or hydraulic to name two. There was a long period when all the machines in a shop were powered by belt drives offline shafts.

Those have been out of fashion since the 1930s and won't be found outside of a museum with most having been scrapped for the metals in WW2. Postwar date 1989 or 2017 electrically driven machinery is going to be found in industrial zones, high schools, colleges, and trade schools.

forget conversion. That would take more effort than it would be worth.

[tsofian]

Those have been out of fashion since the 1930s and won't be found outside of a museum with most having been scrapped for the metals in WW2. Postwar date 1989 or 2017 electrically driven machinery is going to be found in industrial zones, high schools, colleges, and trade schools.

forget conversion. That would take more effort than it would be worth.

Who said conversion? This technology will be remade after the war. Folks will use generators and remaining fuel to build systems that are sustainable. Things like hit and miss engines and PTO off truck and tractors will be powering equipment. Antique stores and museums and barns will be raided for hit and miss motors and similar pre electrical technology. This won't happen everywhere. The places it doesn't happen will either find other ways or not develop technologically

[tsofian]

A quick search for vendors that service the petroleum industry in Texas that offer machining services yields about 100, some with mobile on-site capabilities, many of which are in the greater Houston area. If some of these were considered necessary for survival, then it is likely that a few mills and lathes may have survived. The bigger questions are: did enough skilled operators survive that can mill replacement parts for the machines, can tooling be created of sufficient quality and hardness to keep up with wear and can the generators be maintained.

I would claim that on a small scale this is possible, but whether or not it scales to the manufacturing of arms for an army is your call.

In the late eighties a lot of things had not yet been outsources so large industrial facilities often had their own in house machine shops. These places also often had emergency generators. Some of these facilities will be in the middle of nowhere and won't be nuclear targets. Marine salvage yards will also have machine shops and may be able to get out to sea for a the immediate postwar period (forming the beginning of the Gulf shipmen). Remember the scale up doesn't have to happen in a minute, they have decades to switch from cannibalization and salvage to restoration and new construction.

BTW here is an interesting article on ammunition feed systems http://www.m1919tech.com/26513.html

[tsofian]

How could the oil rig with the bolt hole have survived 150 years?

First let's look at some historic structures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_Tortugas_Light

https://www.nps.gov/drto/learn/historyculture/fort-jefferson.htm

Although the lighthouse was repaired while in service it did survive a number of direct hits by hurricanes over the century and a half since it was built. The Fort however went a hundred years without any care at all.

If a pair of brick structures could survive that long I think a facility designed by the Project could last 150 years as well.

Back in the Nostromo days there was a discussion about why any bolt hole could survive 150 years. It comes down to planned lifespan and over engineering. If the project started freezing people in the 1960s or so and the war could be anywhere up to 40 years later, that gives us a decent starting point. All structures had to survive 40 years. The standard bolt hole would be designed to survive 40 years of the worst case scenario. That would include erosion, ground water earthquakes, a nearby nuke, tornados and such. From there we can look at over engineering the structures and they will double or triple the life, as a factor of 2-3 is not excessive. A factor of 5 is not unheard of.

So let's look at the Lonestar Bolt Hole. It would have been designed for a worst case scenario. In this case I'd say it would be designed to survive a direct hit by a Cat three hurricane every three years and a Cat five direct hit every ten and a nearby nuke hit.

I have no problem seeing the platform leg lasting 150 years

[mmartin798]

It is still a stretch for a bolt hole to be in a offshore rig. A compliant tower is anchored to the seafloor, but they are designed to flex and that would seem to be contrary to long term survivability. That leaves us with a steel jacket fixed platform.

While it is conceivable that you could build a bolt hole inside the jacket of a leg prior to final construction, the jacket does get most of its strength from being round rolled steel welded together with the smaller braces welded between them. This would mean that everything would have to be inside the bolt hole before the jacket was finished and that you could not update the contents of it once sealed. There is also the problem of it jacket being constructed on its side and then having one end slowly submerged to stand it after it is towed to the final location. This means that everything has to be very firmly strapped down to the "floor", including all the vehicles, since it will be on its side for a decent amount of time. These straps would likely entail some sort of steel bracing, brackets and large explosive bolts for the vehicles. Assuming there is such a bolt hole, the normal wake up and launch would be thaw the personnel, have them detonate the bolts to free the vehicles, and then punch the button to activate the thermite charges to burn the door through the jacket with a laser or cutting torch in reserve to use if the thermite fails to open the side correctly for any reason.

This just seems like a lot of work when a more "conventional" design that is used in hundreds of location would just make more sense from an economics and design standpoint.

[tsofian]

Lots of rigs are towed completed and in an upright position. The vehicles would need to be tied down anyway, Oil rigs are dynamic structures and move with the wave action.

I can see a couple of reasons to do this. One has to do with the large number of potential nuke targets on the Gulf Coast. There is also the possibility of the bad guys using tsunami bombs against the entire region. Additionally the threat of hurricanes and weather isn't just against an oil rig. Look at the recent flooding in Texas or Louisiana and the question becomes how many bolt holes could be lost in a Cat 5 hurricane hitting those areas?

Also having CT-13 in the middle of the Gulf gives MP the option of deploying them to anywhere in the Gulf from Mexico all the way around to Florida.

I think there will be some really interesting "one off" bolt holes scattered around, just so all the MP eggs aren't in one kind of basket.

Plus the Team Wake up is so much fun for the PD. Tom, Jeff and I made an audio tape (yes it was THAT long ago) of the bolt hole computer letting the team know their house is falling apart around their ears. I also took four pieces of foam and stuck hundreds of little cocktail toothpicks in them. I had a "Remove Before Flight" ribbon and told the players each toothpick was such a ribbon and they had to pull them all out (one by one) before they could safely get the craft operational. Plus their gear was all downstairs.

The visual of the door falling away when the explosive bolts fire and then the big wave coming in is just a great way to introduce players to the world!

EMBRACE THE SUCK!

[mmartin798]

Lots of rigs are towed completed and in an upright position. The vehicles would need to be tied down anyway, Oil rigs are dynamic structures and move with the wave action.

I eliminated floating platforms because of secrecy. There would be no place that does not receive periodic inspections where you could hide the bolt hole. You could assume that the entire platform is owned and operated by a Morrow company and all the platform operators and workers have fairly high security clearance. Though you still have government inspectors to deal with. Not all of them will take a bribe.

[tsofian]

I eliminated floating platforms because of secrecy. There would be no place that does not receive periodic inspections where you could hide the bolt hole. You could assume that the entire platform is owned and operated by a Morrow company and all the platform operators and workers have fairly high security clearance. Though you still have government inspectors to deal with. Not all of them will take a bribe.

That depends on the time period. Before 1990 there might be fewer and less in dept inspections. WE know from the Deepwater Horizon incident that the inspections, even of the mobile platforms were shoddy.

This isn't a floating platform, but is a fixed one. There are a lot of these out there http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/07/27000_abandoned_oil_and_gas_we.html

[mmartin798]

That depends on the time period. Before 1990 there might be fewer and less in dept inspections. WE know from the Deepwater Horizon incident that the inspections, even of the mobile platforms were shoddy.

This isn't a floating platform, but is a fixed one. There are a lot of these out there http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/07/27000_abandoned_oil_and_gas_we.html

I don't mean to be overly pedantic, but in this case it make a big difference with regard to characteristics and descriptions of different platform types. The numbers are also important since there is a vast discrepancy between oil well and drilling platform.

Just to be clear, the assumption here is that the team is in a fixed platform. I am in total agreement that the team is in a fixed platform. So now, what is a fixed platform and what are its characteristics? A fixed platform has an underwater steel jacket that is firmly anchored to the floor by steel piles that themselves are over 100 ft long. The jacket extends above the sea level by a height greater than the expected wave height from storms and the platform is built on the jacket at this height and above. Once completed, baring structural failure of the jacket, the fixed platform will not move, rock, twist or in any way show movement from storm and surge. This is how they are designed to work.

As for the number of platforms that exist, that number is much smaller than the number of wells drilled. From a report written in 1997 forecasting the number of fixed structures in the Gulf of Mexico, since the first offshore structure was built in the Gulf of Mexico in 1942, there have been a total of 5,561 fixed structures installed. During that same period about 1,645 platforms were removed, leaving 3,916. There is not a one-to-one correlation to the over 27,000 wells and the number of platforms. The report also showed the trend was more platforms being removed than being built, leading to a decline in their numbers to about 3,000 in 2017. With the time to asteroid discovery to impact being just over a year, it is unlikely the number would be any higher.

The other consideration is that the average lifespan of a platform before it is removed and recycled is less than 20 years. So the platform in question should be built and operational by 1998. That will tell you where your should limit the gear to if the bolt hole is sealed into the jacket.

[tsofian]

With a few thousands out there having a handful that have some sort of MP resource on them doesn't seem ridiculous. Even if most are getting recycled those owned by Morrow Industries could be publicly repurposed as automated weather, climate and marine pollution monitoring stations.

[cosmicfish]

Nothing important (including freeze tubes) should be on a mobile facility long term. Too hard to control, too hard to maintain, not very durable, more at the mercy of the elements, etc. If you want an unmanned sensor or comms station on an oil rig, sure - you've got an overfilled network, you can lose a few without impacting operations. But don't freeze people on an oil rig for 20 years.

[tsofian]

Nothing important (including freeze tubes) should be on a mobile facility long term. Too hard to control, too hard to maintain, not very durable, more at the mercy of the elements, etc. If you want an unmanned sensor or comms station on an oil rig, sure - you've got an overfilled network, you can lose a few without impacting operations. But don't freeze people on an oil rig for 20 years.

An oil rig isn't a mobile structure once it is emplaced. The Principality of Sealand is built on a very similar structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's been standing since emplaced in the 1940s. So this structure has been around for 70 years and it absolutely wasn't built to last through the war.

[tsofian]

The Republic of Texas is pretty loose and mostly small villages. The Army there is the only large and coherent organization. Lonestar is barely functioning as a State above the village level. All it really has is good Law and Order and the Army to keep the villages safe. The Universities and Oil Industries serve themselves.


Just looked through Operation Lonestar, The lesser state of Texas has a population of 5 million. This is about the same as the population of ALL of Texas in 1920. So there is no way this is a land of small villages.

The Brotherhood has 1 million in total population of which 100,000 are warriors. This is their level of technology

"Thus medicine, forging, husbandry, agriculture and myriad other skill either declined or disappeared. ... Only those technical skills which related to small arms and ammunition maintenance and production were preserved."