Supply Cache & Bolthole Idea....

[natehale1971]

there is something that i was reading about for underground bunkers... the shape of the Pyramid... and depending on how big you build said pyramid would dictate how much space you'd have access to. as an example I'm gonna talk about a five-level air-tight steel reinforced comcret pyramid.

The top level due to its small size, would house those senors and circulation equipment that would be extened up so that the people in the bolt hole (or using a cache as an emergency shelter) to be able to see whats out there and take readings to see if they are in a really nasty surprises, like a hositle enviroment (chem, biological or radiological threats).

The Second Level would be the entry point to the facily through a specially designed blast tunnel that goes from a blastdook-like heavy personnel hatch that can stand up to a minium of 3 to 4 lbs. of high explosives. the entery hallway could then have variou countermeasures that would make getin through the passage enough trouble that yu'd have to walk very slowly in single file to avoid those measures. The Second Level would have everything for decontamination and cleaned up and the like. Also the seclond level would hold a small weapons locker that could be used in a pinch.

The Third Level would be the living area... holding the bedrooms, living/entertainment room, kitchen & dinning area. Along with the Bolthole Computer & Communications room... that'd be dubed the 'Office' that the Team Leader and Communications Specialist.

The Fourth Level would hold the sleeping area, an infirmery. The Fourth Level also holds the Main Weapons Locker.

The Fifth Level would be the largest, with alot of floor space. So it would be perfect to hold the MPVs, the teams massive amount of supplies, Workshop, lifesupport machinery and the batteries that are recharged through the boltholes power sorce.

LIke i said, this is a barebones idea... anyone got any suggestions?

[mikeo80]

Nate,

Good to hear from you again.

Pyramid...interesting idea...

I do have a small nit to pick. That means the hole you dig is as big as the base. I suggest if you are going to dig THAT much, then use the old fasioned square or rectange shape for your bolt hole.

Another nit. IF you have the auto park on the bottom level of your pyramid, that means you have to have a way out. I still think a square or rectangle is a better bet.

My $0.02

Mike

[natehale1971]

From what they said about the pyramid design... it's a design that won't crumple like a square or rectangle design since it spreads out the weight equally to the edges instead of ontop of itself. This is why i was thinking of the Pyramid shape for the boltholes and caches... it'd be more capable of withstanding the stresses of being buried.

Yes you'd be doing a lot of digging, but you're gonna have to do that digging anyway. the hole you dig for a bolthole or cache is already going to have to be bigger than what you're burying. you have to make the hole big enough to put the facility in the ground, and also so you can pour the concrete slap you're gonna put the bolthole or cache on.. and to create your 'vault' that would go around said faclity to keep from having water seepage from getting into the underground bunker.

If i remember this right, you have a good two foot area round the underground construction where you put the gravel and sand to act as a barrier. Or at least, that's what dad did when he built a house on the side of the mountain back when i was a kid. a good third of the house ended up being underground as it went up the side of the mountain. And he had to make sure that it'd be stable and able to withstand any geological shifts.

i don't know if that's something you'd have to do for underground construction in other areas. but the pics i've seen of bunkers being built back in the 50s and 60s, they did something similar... but with more of a 'vault' area around the bunkers... and they did something my dad had done, and put rebar in the concrete and in the vault area. So it's possible.

[mikeo80]

I am no engineer. I agree with what you said about the building pictures I have seen of 1950-1960 missle silos, bunkers and what have you.

The pyramid is VERY stable. Above ground where all of that weight can spread from narrow top to broad bottom. But I have no clue as to how that shape would handle stress from the sides as earth pressed inward.

Most of the "canon" bunkers I have read about in TMP are some what small.

The average cache is mentioned as 3x3x3.

IIRC, you advocated using semi trailers as a base form for caches. THat is an object approx 48' x 14' x 8.5'

There are no size or shape mentioned about the 'Bolt Hole." It has got to be fairly large. V-150 plus, say, 6 sleepers, plus supplies, plus small to medium meeting area while the CO uses the V-150 to commo with BP, sample atmosphere, take a look around with sensor array.

Delta base is not all that big. At least the "livable" part. And IIRC, the different parts of Delta are described as dome structures. THe real "guts" of Delta are far underground and out of reach of our adventure seeking heros.

Prime, of course, is HUGE. But it was built in a hourglass shape inside of a natural cave.

Damocles base is fairly large, area for 8 people plus supplies, plus vehicles, plus parts, plus Damocles. IIRC, built as a cylinder.

Just some random thoughts from a wandering mind.

My $0.02

Mike

[LBraden]

Well Mike, I got some official and non-official boltholes here -- http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/leebraden/Other%20M20/Morrow/

Some of the official ones I feel are too large, then you have the round ones, but that happens, in fact, I could even go and speed up some "economy bunkers" small and easy to build.

[mikeo80]

Lee,

The bolt holes that you show are what I had in mind. Vehicle(s), cryo, supplies, etc. Designed to be abandoned (Per TM1-1)

I always wondered about that abandon in place. The cache, ok. It is just a storage facility. But I would think that having a "home" in Post Apocolyptic America would be a great psycological boost to the team.

If you read the description in American Outback, there is no shortage of power for the bolt hole. The nuclear waste/heat exchanger/electric generator is scheduled to provide power for a LONG time. That means lights, air, cooking, etc. I do not know about you, but being able to get a hot shower and a hot meal after a long day saving the world has a definate appeal.

My $0.02

Mike

[LBraden]

Aye, the round ones I copied off Owen E Oulton, there is also a G Gore one and then an Official one (I think it was in the first supplement, 3rd ed.) and then 2 very small and basic ones that I did myself BEFORE I had acquired a copy of anything other than the rule book.

I have however, been looking at larger bunkers, similar to NORAD and that for "Regional Base of Operations and Control", as well as "National Control" (Prime for example), but they will take time, and I do have a lot of other things to do first, as well as trying to get a job, and some more vehicles before I attempt that sort of size of base.