Concerns with Mexico Data

[kalos72]

Not to start a riot but...

Is it me or does most of the data about Mexico imply a MUCH weaker military then they should have had coming into the invasion?

Also, no navy/airforce/marines data is available that I found.

[James Langham]

Not to start a riot but...

Is it me or does most of the data about Mexico imply a MUCH weaker military then they should have had coming into the invasion?

Also, no navy/airforce/marines data is available that I found.

Don't forget the Mexican Civil War.

[kalos72]

I can see that but the numbers still seems very low.

The other question I had was about the mental state of the military.

It seems like most of the mexican military or any official really would desert or turn maruader quick if the going went tough.

I would assume then the desertion rate might have really hit them as well, say like 60% or soemthing redonkulous.

[Raellus]

I know some users, myself included, prefer a more buffed Mexican military to make things a little more competetive here in the American SW. I think we have a couple of modified Mexican military orbat threads in the archive. I'll try to merge this thread into one of those when I get home from work.

[Webstral]

Not to start a riot but...

My wife says, “Not that I want to add more to your To Do list” when she means exactly the opposite. [I love her anyway.]

Is it me or does most of the data about Mexico imply a MUCH weaker military then they should have had coming into the invasion?

Mexico’s pre-war army is weak by American or even Western standards. If the British Army could be transported to Mexico, they’d mop up in a conventional fight.

Also, no navy/airforce/marines data is available that I found.

No, the Challenge article doesn’t cover these other branches of the military. I believe the Mexican Air Force basically is grounded for lack of spares and maybe lack of fuel by 1998. Also, I think the Mexican air bases and headquarters are obvious targets for tactical nuclear strikes by the US. It’s possible that Mexican air power plays a role in the early victories, but just putting the planes up will consume spare parts that probably can’t be replaced.

I do think there’s room for a narrative regarding action of the local remnants of the US Navy against the Mexican Navy once the war starts. I’d write it, but I’m not a Navy guy. This job is better for someone with a better understanding of things naval.

I believe there’s a long conversation following TurboSwede’s presentation of his superb Mexican Army Sourcebook. Many of us embraced the idea of a modest number of AMX-30 finding their way into Mexican hands before the start of the nuclear exchange.

In an effort to simplify the picture of Mexican AFV, I have posited that China buys literally every AFV that is ready to go out the door in response to the Soviet invasion. Mexico gets in one the action by selling its entire stock of WW2-era American vehicles, which go to bottom-rung Chinese units and security forces, which in turn send their AFV to the front. Flush with cash from the sale and fresh orders for more AFV, the Mexican government orders a more modern fleet of AFV.

France, in the meantime, is overwhelmed by the sheer number of orders coming from China and from other customers who join regional arms races kicked off by the Sino-Soviet War. The French authorize Mexico to construct several types of AFV under license, including AMX-30, VAB, VBL, and F1 Lynx. Faced with the prospect of cashing in on the worldwide arms bonanza, Mexican heavy industry retools at breakneck speed. By the time NATO gets involved in Europe, the Mexicans have produced their first licensed AFV in every category. It is worth noting that they bring in some specialists and have to order certain items from France or Belgium.

By the time of the TDM, Mexico is producing a steady, if limited, number of tanks and lighter AFV. Once international shipping goes down, all of the ready vehicles in Mexico are diverted to the Mexican Army. All vehicles currently in production are ordered finished, under the assumption that the Mexican Army will need fighting vehicles to survive the looming chaos.

Thus I argue for a Mexican Army that is a modification of the Challenge article and a modification of TurboSwede’s work. I haven’t come up with firm numbers for all of the categories of AFV yet.

[kalos72]

Good information, I will have to go back and read those posts.

:)

[Matt Wiser]

It's been a while, but there was a thread where nuclear strikes on Mexico after they cross the border were discussed. Essentially, those strikes were the only way the JCS felt the invasion could be stopped. Smashing up their supply lines, and taking out their war-support industry, were the objectives, as well as destroying their Air Force and Navy (such as their Navy was-no subs or missile-armed destroyers-even a WW II all-gun Fletcher-class was their largest Naval unit) on their bases.

[RN7]

Not to start a riot but...

Is it me or does most of the data about Mexico imply a MUCH weaker military then they should have had coming into the invasion?

Also, no navy/airforce/marines data is available that I found.

Going by the nicely done and believable Mexican Army Sourcebook the Mexican Army has 290 tanks (225x TAB-30, 65x Shermans), 335x AMX-13, 80x ERC-90, 1,150 light armored vehicles and 280 artillery guns (100x AMX Mk F3 155mm) and 175 SPAAG and tracked AA.

The Mexican Territorial Army also has 200 tanks (Shermans), 80x AMX-13, 2,290 light armored vehicles, 1,520 artillery guns, and 410 SPAAG and tracked AA.