How would it go wrong TODAY? (reopened - play nice)

[Haven]

Hi guys, Solz from the old forums here under a more consistent name (that i use in more places).


I am working out a new alt time line that is going to take place in CONTUS, specifically Georgia.

Couple things about this campaign.


- Going to use Tw2k13 rules
- Disregard all other timelines
- Going to be a PBEM/Post game with me as GM and buddy as player AS HIMSELF - a civilian.
- He lives in Georgia in the Atlanta area
- Starting Jan '09

So questions are:

You have about 2 years to make things go wrong.

How would you do it?
Who would be your antagonists?


After I work on my current timeline for a bit more i'll post it up, for critique but i want to know what you'd come up with.

EDIT: These are guidelines.... don't feel like you can't break some rules to get what you need.
Basically the only constants are.... some time around now or slightly in the future and he is a civilian in the Atlanta area.

[pmulcahy11b]

What, you don't watch the news?

[Targan]

What, you don't watch the news?
I get paid to listen to the radio and watch the TV newses, eight hours per day, five days per week. I'm doing it right now. You wouldn't believe how many words I've typed in the last nine years or the vast amount of news I have stored in my brain.

[headquarters]

I `ll try my hand real quick and short:

1) terrorist attack on US soil using Nuclear weapon(s) that hit several ports /major metropolitan areas (cargo containers w nuclear devices) over a few days and also some disruption to leadership like Pres/Vice Pres knocked out and speaker unable to be found or some such leading to a situation close to the one when Reagan was shot ,only this time several people try to "shout eachother down" and arrests are made etc adding to the confusion

2) Massive chaos and panic as people flee .Many crucial posts are abandoned,countryside flooded with refugees - FEMA,national guard ,Federal agencies overloaded with emergency tasks like curbing the looting and crime ,helping everyone etc .the army is already overseas..

3) Retaliation - is promptly meted out towards those believed responsible in the form of localized nuclear strikes/conventional attacks and some not so localized.But as command is hazy different agencies/leaders attack different targets and sometimes indiscrimenately

4) Terrified leaders of other powers
( Russia,China,France,Britain,Germany ,Pakistan etc ) act with paranoia towards the "loose cannons" and try to secure some nuclear weapons facilities etc .Small nuclear exchanges take place to knock out some weapons facilities -and is responded to by some commanders from the USD as well as dictated by protocol meaning that the attacks have to be retaliated .Several of the major powers recieve crippeling hits that destroy central authority and most goverment functions

5) world economy comes to a thunderous stop,and world order is turned upside down as raw material producing countries "on the fringes"-including oil producers of course - now take a leading role.Countries that rely on foreign aid collapse .All those wars and conflicts that have been lying in wait because of the influence of the US airforce and the petromagnat syndicates (hehe) are now unrestrained and cry havoc -unleash the dogs of war all hell breaks loose in 397 locations pretty much at once.

6) fallout,famine,epidemics,violence and upheaval hit all societies except those that are removed from the modern world and still live like they did along time ago .death tolls are staggering -but it is the industrialized world that is hit the hardest.Developing countries /regions can to some extent carry on or cope .All the financial power in the "west" amounts to nothing now- but an economy based on agriculture and cottage industries will be able to hang in there - albeit more often than not repression and dictatorship take hold.

7) the nuclear exchange is limited as it is clear from early on that it has taken far less than anyone thought to topple the major powers -burning them to a radioactive ash doesnt seem necessary -so some cmndrs/leaders desist from firing or actively try to stop the shooting .meaning that there are local commanders with nuclear capacity out there in the various factions that will emerge -and that nuclear war will continue for the next few years as a part of smaller regional wars .

I dont see this taking place in more than 30-60 days ,and the PCs will get only scraps of information and confused messages .After the big breakdown news will be rumours and the pressing matters of getting food,safety and shelter will seem more important than current affairs.

[Mohoender]

Just watch the "Sum of all Fears" or "Second Civil War" :).

[Marc]

Great overview description HQ! Recognize you was waiting for someone to ask you this same question! :D

[headquarters]

Great overview description HQ! Recognize you was waiting for someone to ask you this same question! :D

-it is actually something close to the timeline we developed for our current campaign that centers on the war on terror going wrong and the aftermath that steadily plunges the world into a second dark age ..

(all the lights go out as electricity fail..)

Anyways I am sure the rationale could be improved or countered in a multitudes of ways -buit of the top of my head you know...

[pmulcahy11b]

I get paid to listen to the radio and watch the TV newses, eight hours per day, five days per week. I'm doing it right now. You wouldn't believe how many words I've typed in the last nine years or the vast amount of news I have stored in my brain.

The reason I asked that question is because (and I have said so on the previous board) we are sliding into a real-life "T2K" scenario now. I really do believe that our global civilization has at max 30 years left -- and possibly less than ten. I'm not religious, but we are living in what many Christians would call "The End Times," in a non-religious sense -- we made this mess ourselves.

[jester]

The reason I asked that question is because (and I have said so on the previous board) we are sliding into a real-life "T2K" scenario now. I really do believe that our global civilization has at max 30 years left -- and possibly less than ten. I'm not religious, but we are living in what many Christians would call "The End Times," in a non-religious sense -- we made this mess ourselves.


All of a sudden I feel like listening to REM, hmmm?

"Its the ennnnnnnnnnd of the world as we know it. And I feel fine."

[Haven]

This is rough and lacking details ...

But this is where i am going with this.

Influences:
Scorpion's Gate (Book - Iran and Saudi Arabia)
Syrianna (Movie - China and the Middle East Oil)
The Kingdom (Movie - about Saudi Arabia)
EMP blast over nuclear fallout - more hardship after the fact but no immediate deaths


__________________________________________________ ___________________

Twilight 2000 – RPG (alternative timeline)

Jan 2008 - President elected and Takes office.
Economy very shaky and to boost economy and balance budget the President raises taxes and cuts military spending. Slow troop withdrawals begin from Iraq and other overseas military bases. Some military base closings similar to the 1990’s and the majority of the new weapons programs are scraped or put on hold due to lack of funding.

Canadian and Mexican boarders are now more vulnerable due to lack of funding but this is nothing new to the boarder patrol.

Police and state defense spending is also cut as states struggle to balance the budget. Crime rates climb. Unemployment rises.

Anti-government groups grow in popularity nation wide as it appears another period of UN over USA begins.

Israel attacks Iran with air strikes to halt nuclear program – and is ineffective.
Iran now with a solid (anti-west) public opinion base form close ties to Iraq’s Shiite population

President at the request of the Iraqi government agrees to an 18 month pullout period
Insurgent violence surges due to US troop pullouts, but larger terrorist organizations bide their time and wait for the US to withdraw. Iraqi commanders are bought, manipulated etc into cooperation or selling of arms to all sorts of organizations. Syria and Iran’s involvement is heavily suspected.

Afghanistan – President deploys the majority of the US remaining troops from Iraq to Afghanistan switching the front from Iraq to Afghanistan

Nationalism rising in Russia and they’re getting nasty, as its former Warsaw Pact members seek to join NATO and Russia is obviously against this and consider this expansionism.
They use espionage, subversion, and political assassination by the KGB to keep the remaining former satellites in their sphere of influence.

They also manipulate the flow of oil and gas to Western Europe as a political weapon and to keep NATO and West Europe from interfering.

Taking Russia’s lead the Middle East and other OPEC members manipulate oil production to increase its costs, this backfires causing a worldwide recession.

President federalizes failing US automakers to keep them open and to provide the American public with alternative energy vehicles as gas prices soar.
Gas is scarce and expensive but few can afford a new alternative energy vehicle.

China has massive numbers of unemployed due to a world wide recession and it is pumping up its military to quell domestic unrest.
It also challenges fuel supplies in their sphere of influence, and they ramp up Nationalism to divert from their domestic problems.
“It’s those Damned Yankees for not buying our junk! And Russia for its strong arm tactics! “
They also build up their naval forces and shadow US planes and submarines in Japanese territorial waters.

China and India both want to emerge from the recession as the new economic leader of the world.
China and India begin arms race in earnest for world stage dominance.
China and India know that the next 50~100 years of technical, economic, and political dominance is at stake.
China averages 1 ‘shuttle type’ launch every month, India every other month.
China’s military sees drastic modernization.

China needing a trade partner in oil to fuel this growth finds one in Iran – China’s energy future is secure as long as there is oil in Iran and Iran sees a huge influx of modern weaponry, military advisors, and money.

Russia responding to this new threat and wanting to secure its oil pipelines (and thus its political weapon) - solidifies (reinvades) control over Georgia – NATO protests but held from meaningful action due to energy concerns.
They realize NATO is not going to respond.
The UN as usual says just words.

Russia has shattered NATO with its manipulation of gas and oil.

China takes note.

They also overthrow some nations and install puppet governments more inline with Moscow.
The Russian Federation Pact is signed (RFP) is the world calls it Warsaw Pact II.
Russian and EU sign trade agreements over oil stabilizing the EU economies at the cost of their inaction.

Defense budget cuts are for the most part reversed as the political landscape changes in the face of a very real Cold War 2.
This time with China as an additional player.

The spending provides a nice boost in the economy showing signs of recovery. The technology sector gets most of the money as the current administration prefers non-lethal/less-than-lethal and remote control options over ‘boots on the ground’. This also has the added benefit of being best for the economy.

An unknown submarine threatens a US carrier group and the carrier employs very aggressive Anti-Submarine Warfare assets, forcing a Chinese submarine to the surface, embarrassing China on the world stage.
China’s government sees this as a national security threat to their reputation in their sphere of influence and national standing and blockade Taiwan in response.

The US has no legal recourse in this matter due to Taiwan’s unique status as an unrecognized nation and is forced to sit on the sidelines.

Taiwanese military forces are reported to have attacked Chinese warships in international waters and responds with a full-scale invasion of Taiwan (to restore reputation and standing).
Obama does not fulfill Taiwan treaty obligations – suspends trade with China.
This action results in 200 US Marine deaths during pullout.
Thousands of Taiwanese are killed and the ‘rogue Chinese territory’ of Taiwan is subdued in 3 months.

Russia and the RFP broaden its reach by sending ‘military advisers’ into Cuba, Mexico, and Venezuela.

The conflict in Afghanistan spills over into Pakistan as Insurgents seek haven from US troops.
The already weakened Pakistani government fighting a loosing battle against a determined extremist Islamic insurgency collapses and goes into exile.
A small US peacekeeping force moves in to prevent Pakistan’s nuclear weapons from ‘falling into the wrong hands’ at the request of the ousted government and after 1 week of hard fighting is quickly withdrawn.
Quickly suppressed reports surface that the peacekeepers were too late and some of Pakistan’s arsenal is unaccounted for.

Saudi Arabia’s kingdom also collapses due to Islamic extremism. US bases in Saudi Arabia are reinforced and fight along side still loyal Saudi troops temporarily restoring the Saudi government to power. Brutal government crackdowns keep the population barely under control. Terrible human rights violations occur in the name of the Saudi government.

Local Russian Federation Pact forces skirmish with local PLA forces in Southern Russian Middle Eastern proxy nations, and rural Western China territories. Mostly in places ending with ‘Stan’ that you’ve never heard of before.
The local forces are finding there new weapons a good way to settle old national, racial, and religious scores across the boarder.

Chinese-Russian relations are at an all time low slowly increasing commitment in fights they don’t want and didn’t start but can’t back down from.

US military forces are over-extended to the breaking point spread to every hotspot around the globe.
US foreign opinion is at an all time low, especially amongst Muslim nations due to the disasters in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Iran works to consolidate its power and influence in Iraq.
EU sits idle choosing to close its eyes and hope this will all go away while Russia makes a fortune off its oil sales, continuing to revitalize its military power to cold war levels.
China’s economy with a secured source of cheap energy in Iran takes off and matches Russia step for step in military upgrades to maintain the balance of power in the region.

On the surface at least the US is keeping up – still developing high-tech answers to America’s last war, barely keeping its head above water.

Turning Point -
September 11th 2010 – In a coordinated effort most major cities on the east coast are car and truck bombed. The US responds with emergency relief and a declaration of a national state of emergency and within days begins to lick its wounds and point fingers much like the 2001 attacks as a nation mourns 2200 deaths.
The terrorists however, have other plans and follow up the original attacks with a second round of attacks the following week.

Chinese, European, Latin American, and Russian PMC (Private Military Contractor) groups are hired by unknown backers to further confuse the situation and to prevent racial profiling.
These groups also bring an additional level of sophistication to these attacks and are rarely caught, captured, or killed without overwhelming force.

Fear paralyzes the nation. One man with a sniper rifle shut DC down for weeks; this is orders of magnitude worse. Emergency services are overwhelmed and overworked. The attacks continue as a suspected 5000 terrorist/PMCs remain at large on the east coast 100s in each major city. Terrorist/PMCs carry out multiple hit and run tactics.

- Car bombings in industrial and city centers
- Mall shootings, and bombings
- Hospital shootings and bombings
- Police building shootings and bombings
- Sniper attacks at schools, businesses, and government facilities
- Government official assassination at the local and state level
- Sniper attacks on the highways killing random drivers

Parents keep their kids home from school and refuse to report to work.
Emergency aide workers – those that report to work – are overworked and exhausted
Police and first responders are decimated in terrorist efforts to eliminate them specifically

Sustained terrorist bombings are a daily occurrence.

Slowly attacks are beginning to be brought under-control under emergency powers granted to by the president and suspension of the Bill of Rights. However, terrorists and PMCs are still gaining entry to the US in a coordinated and steady supply.

US Military check points (National Guard) exist every few miles and regular patrols are conducted but these Military units are spread FAR too thinly.

State, county, city, and town Militias are deputized and formed filling the gaps where the military is spread to thin. These groups are usually under local government control and supplied from Police inventory as well as private weapons.

These groups run the gamut from organized small armies that are well supplied to 3 men in a pickup truck with hunting rifles.

Conduct and control of these groups is also fairly loosely regulated and some groups are little more than organized crime groups under the control of some corrupt politician or sheriff. For the most part people tolerate this preferring ‘home grown’ problems to terrorist attacks.

The attacks continue but it appears that eventually these attacks will eventually be brought under control.

Turning point 2 –
Dec 2nd 2010 - From an unknown vessel in international waters off the US East coast launches a nuclear device high into the air and explodes releasing a large EMP.
80% of all electronic devices on the east coast are fried.

What was left of the US economy has essentially ceased to exist as the technology sector is wiped out. Looting and chaos run rampant in the days after the attack as people try to secure supplies.

National Guard units do what they can but often it is the armed militias and not the civilians that are the worst offenders.

China declares itself ‘international relief’ and begins deploying troops to the US mainland. ‘Forward bases’ are established on the West coast. Airborne drops begin deploying the PLA to east coast disaster areas and metropolitan areas.

EU also declares the need for international relief and sends UN peacekeepers to the east coast disaster areas.

Russian and the RFP not to be outdone promises to ‘provide aide when and where needed’ but doesn’t elaborate.

It appears the new cold war will go hot over the ashes of the United States of America.
The situation does not promise stability for long………


Depending on what actions you’ve taken at Turning point 1:
- You’re just a civilian who now no longer has a reason to go to work and needs to figure out what to do next
- You’re a member of a State, county, city, or town militia.
- You’re a member of the National Guard
- You’re a member of a corporate security force
- You're a member of the US Military called back home

Further options:
- You’re a member of any of the ‘relief’ forces
- You’re a member of an Anti-Government group
- You’re a member of a PMC group trying to figure out how you’re paycheck is going to get to you in all this mess!

Pretty easy to take it from there. Good luck!

[Mohoender]

Hi Haven

Pretty much what I came up with myself except that the U.S. collapse is not that brutal and that I ally China and Russia.

One little difference so, Venezuela in place of Cuba with alliance including Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia and Nicaragua.

Nice stuff:).

As I retain much of the original game text I chose not to put up mine.

[Marc]

I like it very much Haven!

In my opinion, the effect of the economical crisis over the US military power must be softened a bit. After all, the US traditional enemies would be growing up in military capacity and technological advances. And tension all over the world would be escalating. So, it seems logical that two of the sectors to be reactivated over the others would be the armament production and the military.

[Haven]

Good point.

I think i put it in there as a catalyst and then never 'reversed' the process once the going got tough.

I'll edit those in here in a min.

President elected
Economy near collapse – President cuts military spending. Troop withdrawals from Iraq and other overseas military bases. Wide scale military base closings and the majority of the new weapons programs are scraped or put on hold due to lack of funding. Canadian and Mexican boarders are basically wide open due to lack of funding. Police and state defense spending cut on a wide scale. Crime rates climb. Unemployment rises. Anti-government groups grow in popularity nation wide.

President federalizes failing US automakers and produces electric cars


UPDATED:
______________________________________
President elected
Economy near collapse – President cuts military spending. Troop withdrawals begine from Iraq and other overseas military bases. Some military base closings similar to the 1990’s and the majority of the new weapons programs are scraped or put on hold due to lack of funding. Canadian and Mexican boarders are now more vulnerable due to lack of funding but this is nothing new to the boarder patrol. Police and state defense spending is also cut as states struggle to balance the budget. Crime rates climb. Unemployment rises. Anti-government groups grow in popularity nation wide as it appears another period of UN over USA begins.

President federalizes failing US automakers to keep them open and to provide the American public with alternative energy vehicles as gas prices soar.

______________________________________

[Haven]

Added:

Defense budget cuts are for the most part reversed as the political landscape changes in the face of a very real possibility of Cold War 2. The spending provides a nice boost in the economy but it remains fairly shaky. The technology sector gets most of the money as the current administration prefers non-lethal/less-than-lethal and remote control options over ‘boots on the ground’. This also has the added benefit of being best for the economy.

On the surface the US is keeping up – still developing high-tech answers to America’s last war

[jester]

Here is the scenario:

Nationalism rising in Russia and their getting nasty, as its former PACT members join Nato and they consider this expansionism. They use force as well as subversion to keep the remaining former satelights in their sphere of influence. They form a new version of the WARSAW Pact whatever it would be called. They also overthrow some nations and install pupet governments more inline with MOSCOW. They also manipulate the flow of oil and gas to Western Europe...

MiddleEast and other OPEC members manipulate oil production to increase its costs, this backfires causing a worldwide recession.

China has massive numbers of unemployed due to a world wide recession. And it is pumping up its military to quel domestic unrest. It also challenges fuel supplies in their sphere of influience, and they ramp up Nationalism to divert from their domestic problems. Its those Damned Yankees for not buying our junk! They also build up their naval forces and shadow US planes and submarines, as well as invade Japanese waters.

Escelation of tensions develope between the two nations. An unknown submarine threatens a US carrier group and the carier employs ASW assets, this can be successful or not, China protests and tensions ramp up or hostilities can begin there. Further China moves in to blockade China and threaten the US naval assets in the Pacific because they want to be a world player and project power now.

Russia has shattered Nato with its manipulation of gas and oil. They move into one of the newer smaller member nations of ?Nato and their bluff is not called. They realise Nato is not going to respond. The UN as usual says just words. Then Russia goes on a rampage eating up many of the smaller republics that once were part of the USSR.

The US and a few European Nations finaly act after Russia has reclaimed much of Eastern Europe and its former asian republics.

The US became weak, a leftist president came to power with promised of social reform. To fund his programs he gutted the military and pulled out of the comitments abroad. The US lacked the men and equipment to man its units let alone handle combat operations.

And having snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the middleast the US credibility plumeted further. Those countries soon fell to sectarian violence fueled by external influences. Iran and Russia and thuse control of oil from the Persian Gulf was not under control or threat by Iran., Iraq becomes a broken but the bulk of it is controled or a puppet of Iran.

Pakistan withdraws support because of the new US presidents policy, Taliban grows and turns portions of Pakistan into regions that are lawless, others are supported by Pakistan and some by Russia with a few remaining civil but they are under threat.

The US is perceieved as weak moraly and militarility, that emboldens the Russians to move and the Chinese. They think we will not do anything and that we can not. They think they have dealt with Western Europe with manipulating their fuel supplies and their proven weakness and failure to respond to earlier encroachments on nations. So the bullies get bolder and brazen, but then they move one step to far.

In Asia it could be Taiwan, or a showdown between US and Chinese fleets or naval assets. The submarine incident is a likely one.

Europe, pretty much as I said.


But then the US and the remaining countries in Europe <or some at least> tell the Russians "STOP! You have until X to get out." Russia emboldened by its earlier sucesses and just the words from the other countries of the world ignores the threat <really when has that worked? Didn't work in Kuwait and didn't work in Georgia> this time however US/European forces are there and a face off ensues. Two forces near one another with hostile intentions, or a date to leave. Or a threat is made or percieved and there is fighting. The Russians think they can beat the weak Americans after all they are weak, and they have to transit the Atlantic. But a good effort is made, and these soft Americans whose only culture is blue jean, sneekers and big mac and coke bloody the Russians, who have now lost face so they pour in more and more forces and eventualy break the Americans and go into the rear, now in an effort to take a vital tatget. By now Flights of C-5s and C-117s and C-130s are brining in more and more US troops and equipment to fill the gaps while the larger forces are crossing the Atlantic via ship.

US reserves are called up as are national guard and even inactive reserves and it is on! A new president is elected to undo the damage done by the leftist and maybe he is a magician who can win this.

By now Russia and the US is in a full on conflict. A few European Nations are along side the US, and some of the countries that have been swallowed up by Russia have formed free governments in exile and rallied a few regiments or even divisions who are fighting as well.

The Middle East is in chaos. A Multi National Force is sent in to stabilize specific areas, mainly those who produce and supply oil so the industry of the world can continue. Kuwait is protected, portionso of Iraq and Saudi Arabia is propped up with a division, a squadron of Destoryers with some air assets are stationed in the Gulf, now oil tankers are sent out in convoy with an air umbrella.

Dog fights between Allied and Iranian/Russian aircraft are a common sight over the Persian Gulf. An Allied Landing occurs on the Irainain side of the Straights of Hormuz so the Iraninans can not attack ships transiting the Gulf.

Asia:

China is in revolution with disenfranchised poor, coupled with unemployment and drafting for the military. An Aliance between Russia and China did not hold, they have to long a history of hostility and they dispute regions of their common boarder. They have border clashes of divisional size but they have not devolved into an outright war.

N and S Korea make a mpove. The dying Kim wants to make one grand foolish gesture. He fires nukes at S. Korea, Japan and American forces in Japan, they have limited assistance from China but then the assistance given to S.Korea from the US is also limited.

Mostly the fighting in Asia is an airwar and one of naval assets and missiles.

Taiwan is pummeled by conventional weapons and near blockaded, although the blockade doesn't last when the US fleet is in the area.

China sends an invasion forces they have been working on for 10 years to take that rogue province. With the help of the US it is destoryed. And to break the blockade Taiwain sends an expedition to mainland China with is met as liberators from some areas and a free Chinese Army is formed among units who mutinied or that are raised on the mainland. China is in a full civil war.

But the Taiwanese can only give so much even the US can give only limited support. So what becomes FREE CHINA does not expand to much, but they do manage to support the other Free Forces throughout China but most of the Support is in areas they have influence and communication with.

There are also uprising or conflicts in Vietnam and China, and Tibet and Burma revolt now that they have seen what is happening and take a chance to return as free and independant states. And Western China revolts too and are helped by Radiacal Isamist Groups, fighting the Americans in Iran and Iraq is old, the new Jihad as it is called is in Western China.

India and Pakistan are tense with some boarder skirmishes by nothing major happens.

Cuba has several older US Frigates and Destroyers circling it and they remain quiet, although they do make themselves available for Russian submarine facilities and even aireal recon assets and a hotbed of intelligence activity with agents going to Mexico or Latin America and then into the US.

Venezuela creates hostility in its region, creates an arms race although it is petering out as the powers who supply arms are now using them. They do support guerilla groups in Columbia and Peru and Ecuador and Chile <those are the nations that border it right?> and there are the odd clashes between patrols with alot of military buildups and posturing but they do not break into open war, Venezuela would loose, Chaves remains in power by the slightest grip and a full on war would force him to loose his control. The neighbors just do not want a war.

Portions of Africa have turned into a bloodbath with rivals taking revenge for age old rivalries, if you are of the wrong tribe, religion or color then you are hunted and killed, almost all whites are driven from the continent those who remain are butchered, and that was what drove most out, the wholesale slaughter of people based on their skin. It reverts to the most barbaric of places on earth, but they do have modern weapons.

Only a few western buisnesses have maintained a presence there and that is with the help of private armies. But these are in the more remote areas that are inaccessible without great difficulty. It was learned early on that locals be avoided for these security forces as they desert, turn on their employers or they just plain kill each other. These remain only if they have clear access to a port. Oil Facilitis off coast are well guarded, with these companies buying older military vessels to protect them and the oil. Mining corporations build their own docks and rail lines that are heavily guarded, most assets in the inerior are abandoned.

S. America errupts into economic chaos but they really avoid the war, but there are large segments of the societies of Brazil and Argentina that are diseffected and they are both dangerous places to be. Bandits roam the countrysie, gangs the inner cities, draconian police andm ilitary roam everywere and they shoot first and don't ask questions, they fall into martial law with a military junta rulling both countries.

These countries also supply the waring powers with raw materials and act as a means for eastern and western goods to be exchanged, so the rifle between rich and poor grows, Brazil is on the verge of a popular uprising and the military and police are doing everything they can to errradicate it.

Austrailia, has supplied troops to The Middle East and Asia with some in Europe, they have been effected by Chinas attempt to become the dominant region in the power and its navy took a heavy blow. Norther Oz has taken some missiles as well. And they have become more isolated with goods from not comming in very often as a result of the war and limited shipping.

Alasaka is more a naval war with some bombers flying over, a few small raids by Soviet forces occurs but thats it. The US beyond landing SEALs for intel work blasts the Russian Pacific bases with a few raids by Marines but these operations are limited in scale.

And that is how I would rewrite it.

[Haven]

Excellent HQ and Jester.

Hope to borrow a lot of these ideas.

Jester i really like your economic explanation a _whole_ lot better than mine.



Probably not going for fullout RU vs US fight though.

[Mohoender]

Here is something I can put up with no copyright problems I thinks.

2008
In January, the price of petroleum hits $100 per barrel for the first time. Stock markets around the world plunge amid growing fears of a U.S. recession, fuelled by the 2007 sub prime mortgage crisis. The western world slowly enters a major economical crisis. Rising food and fuel prices trigger riots and unrest in the Third World.
In Europe, Kosovo formally declares independence from Serbia, with support from UE but opposition from others. Ireland votes to reject the Treaty of Lisbon, in the only referendum to be held by a European Union member state on the treaty. Russia stages the largest naval exercise since the fall of the Soviet Union in the Bay of Biscay. The Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, along with 11 support vessels and 47 long-range bomber aircraft, practised strike tactics off the coast of France and Spain, and test-launched nuclear-capable missiles on foreign waters.
In Asia, Demonstrations by Tibetan separatists turn violent as rioters target government and Han Chinese-owned buildings.
In Pakistan, on August 18, Pervez Musharraf resigns from the post of President of Pakistan under impeachment pressure from the coalition government. Asif Ali Zardari is elected in his place but many already regrets Musharraf’s regime.
In Africa, a peace deal ends the Kivu conflict in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Meanwhile, rebels attack the capital of Chad, N'Djamena. President Sidi Ould Cheikh Abdallahi of Mauritania is deposed in a military coup d'état.
In Latin America, PDVSA, a state oil company in Venezuela, suspends sales of crude oil to ExxonMobil. Fidel Castro announces his resignation as President of Cuba, effective on February 24 and Raúl Castro is unanimously elected as President of Cuba by the National Assembly. Venezuela and Ecuador move troops to the Colombian border following a Colombian raid against FARC guerrillas inside Ecuador's national territory in which senior commander Raúl Reyes was killed. In July, Íngrid Betancourt and 14 other hostages are rescued from FARC by Colombian security forces.
On the opening day of the Olympic Games at Beijing, August 7, the 2008 South Ossetia war begins as Georgia launch an offensive inside that separatist region. Russia reacts with brutal force and the world slowly slips toward global conflict. On August 12, Russian President Medvedev said that he had ordered an end to military operations in Georgia. On the same day, Russian president Medvedev approved a six-point peace plan brokered by President-in-Office of the European Union, Nicolas Sarkozy, in Moscow; both sides were to sign it by the 17th. Everyone started to think that the crisis was over but that was far from the truth. The USA and the EU had shown a wide support to Georgia and the Russia grew tired of this. As a result, on August 26, Russia unilaterally recognizes the independence of Georgian breakaway republics Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

At the beginning of September, Russia receives support from several former soviet republics: Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kirgizhistan, Tadjikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. On September 9, Nicolas Sarkozy is again at Moscow and he receives word that the Russians will have withdrawn all their troops by mid-October. However, this goes by the Russian’s agenda and Medveded states that Russia will not back up on its unilateral recognition of the breakaway republics. A few days later, Syria recognizes also their independence and quickly gets military support from the Kremlin in return. Again, the situation starts to calm down in October 15 when the Russian troops withdraw to Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
The world forgot about the crisis as it turns its attention to the US elections. These are comfortably won by Barack Obama with Joe Biden as vice-president. Before the end of the year, President Bush and Condoleezza Rice multiply their actions at the diplomatic level. France joins NATO integrated command again and NATO accepts two new members in a hurry: Ukraine and Georgia. Meanwhile, President Bush goes again to the UN on Christmas Eve and states the following: “people have the right to self determination when facing an oppressive regime but, as democracy protect people from oppression; democracies’ territorial integrity has to be respected under all circumstances. Anyone that opposes a democracy with the force of weapons is nothing but a terrorist”. Several countries, including China and Russia, are outraged by this declaration and the world starts to worry. Before New Year’s Eve, the stock market goes down again, the dollars falls down in front of euros and the oil prices start to rise again.

2009
When Barack Obama gets into office, on January 20, he is already facing a major crisis. Russia has moved more troops in both Abkhazia and South Ossetia and it is slowly reducing the amount of gas and oil that it exports to the West. Two days earlier, Russia and China have signed a major energetic agreement that makes China the priority customer for Russian gas and oil. The crisis gets worse, on January 22, when Russian leaders from Crimea declare their independence from Ukraine and ask for Russia’s protection. On January 24, a number of Russian units enter Crimea but no fighting take place. On the next day, a NATO task force is already on the way but it will never reach the Black Sea as Turkey resigns from NATO and closes the Bosphorus to military ships.
U.S. President Obama calls for the Russian troops to leave Crimea but this call is ignored by the Kremlin which, in addition, shut down all gas export to Ukraine. On March 10, after more than a month of negotiations, both the USA and the UE stop all exportations to Russia. This was expected to end the crisis but it only increases it as Russia turns on China. A new commercial agreement is quickly signed between the two giants and that affects greatly the world economy. As China increases its exports to Russia, it reduces commercial relations to the West and this result in major consequences. By the end of June, inflation has gone up by 10%, the western economy has lost 20% of its monetary value, and oil market is up to 180$ a barrel. Hopefully, India pushes its production and that slows down the effect of the Sino-Russian Trade Union.
On August 4, after several month of increasing tensions Russia and its allies meet at Astrakhan. On August 9, Dmitry Medvedev, Vladimir Putin and Hu Jintao announce the creation of Warsaw Pact 2. This new military alliance is signed primarily between Russia and China but it includes also several other countries: Belarus, Kazakstan, Kirghizistan, Serbia, Syria, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Immediately, all countries in Warsaw Pact 2 forbid NATO to supply its forces in Afghanistan through their territories. In addition to this, a growing instability starts to shake Pakistan and, as a result, NATO is facing increasing difficulties and casualties in Afghanistan. On December 11, they withdraw and Hamid Karzai regime is left alone.

A primary move from the countries in Warsaw Pact 2 is to start a new arm building. Russia and China start to increase their arm production and their most recent design are going out of the production lines at an increased rate: Type 99 MBT, T-95 MBT, BMP-3, BTR-90, Su-35, Su-34, J-10, Borey-class... All countries in the Pact are receiving new equipments and many of their ancient ones are being refited. China transfers the aircraft carrier Varyag to the Russian Pacific Fleet while Russia starts building a third ship: the “Ulyanovsk”. Meanwhile the Russians are sending teams of specialists in order to help the Chinese refit the Kiev and the Minsk.
In the West, reactions are largely different from one country to another. Various equipments that were to be scrapped are now being stored and some countries increase their production of weapon systems. France, for example, renounces to reduce its armed forces any further and a sister ship to the Charles de Gaulle is planned. Moreover, the Foch is slowly refitted in order to be put back in action. Countries in East Europe are quickly increasing their arm forces and units that were disbanded are created again. Sweden put all surviving equipments, such as the Saab Viggen, in stores. In the US, President Obama, feeling that he must give a chance to peace, accepts only minor changes concerning defence but he launches a major naval refitting program. All ships that were not scrapped have to be refitted and put in reserve.

2010
This is a year of growing tensions. The USA are quickly appearing as entering a phase of depression as the GDP growth rate is largely negative, businesses continue to go bankrupt, unemployment is growing and wages are going down. Because of this, U.S. President Obama slow down all military modernisation and programs such as the Joint Strike Fighter are postpone. Pulling out of Iraq has proved difficult and the U.S. forces remain overstretched there while the continuous operations are costing much of the available money. Old ships continue to be recommissioned and the navy reserve grows but this is not true for both the Air Force and the Army but plans are made to quickly expand them in case of needs. Nevertheless, small nuclear warheads are made again to be fitted with the tomahawks and the anti-missile shield system continues its deployment.
The UE also experiences a time of depression but this is not as harsh as what happens in the states. The unemployment rises again but the GDP growth rate is only slightlly negative. The effects on NATO are real nevertheless. The Eurofighter and the Rafale continues to enter production and the older aircrafts are put in reserve, allowing for a quick increase in various Air Forces. France launches the Richelieu (sister ship to the Charles de Gaulle) and the Foch achieves refit. However, the UK cancels their new aircraft carrier program and concentrates on their Type 45 destroyers. Most countries are expending their military budget and old units are slowly reactivated while new equipments are being built for both armies and air forces. This is especially true for the eastern countries of Europe as for Ukraine and Georgia.
With the slow rearming of Western Europe, the countries in Warsaw Pact 2 increase their cooperation and the former soviet republics are forming the “Russian Union of Sovereign States” when the 1991 treaty is finally ratified. Moreover, the modernisation of military equipments is quickly accelerating and this allows for the reactivation of several units and cold war figures are met again. In China, the Kiev and the Minsk (renamed Beijing and Shanghai) achieve their refit and brand new Yak-141s are received from Russia. North Korea joins Warsaw Pact 2 when an American U-2 is shot down while flying off its coasts.
In Georgia and Ukraine, skirmishes occur on a regular base between Russian troops and the military forces of these two countries. In the Caucasus, Azerbaijan joins with NATO and its claims on Nagorno-Karabakh are met with support from the West. This is done to the dismay of Armenia and that other country joins with Warsaw Pact 2. Nevertheless, Armenia is surrounded and, in case of conflict it can only hope for a quick push by Pact forces through Azerbaijan and Georgia. NATO is well aware of this and a small US force is stationed in the region while NATO presence in Iraq is increased again. This is taken as a threat by Iran and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declares his country in favour of Warsaw Pact 2. Nevertheless, Iran doesn’t join the Pact as a full fledge member and consequently it receives more limited help than Syria.

In Afghanistan, the country is again in a stage of civil war and Hamid Karzai government falls in May. Fighting among the various tribes continues and this civil war starts to spread in Pakistan. That other country has experienced numerous unrest and riots since Musharaff resigned and this only stops in October when a new military coup is staged by that same Pervez Musharraf. The army is moving everywhere but fighting continues in the tribal regions with Taliban and in the southern Baluchi’s region with “Jundallah” (the Sword of Allah). The first is backed by Iran and China while the second receives help from the U.S.
In Latin America, no country enters Warsaw Pact 2 but the Latin Social Union (L.S.U.) is created under Hugo Chavez initiative. This union is composed of Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Peru and Venezuela and its first move is to stop part of their exportations to the West. As a result, oil market rises above 200$, a level it had not reached so far. Russian troops (Division Latin America) are sent to Venezuela while all countries buy new equipments from Warsaw Pact 2. In response to this new threat, the U.S. reinforces their positions in Panama, the 4th U.S. Fleet is fully reactivated and Columbia gets more funding.
With the world economic crisis growing all year long, instability rises again in the third world and insurgent movement that had been down for some times are becoming active again. This is especially true for Africa where most countries are experiencing some kind of unrest. The situation worsens slowly and by the end of the year, some countries on that continent are almost in a stage of civil war. Outside of France, most western countries don’t have the time and power to care about this and the African Union dissolves on Christmas Day. In South America, the various guerrillas are becoming active again with the support from one side or another. The Warsaw Pact and the Latin Social Union are supporting several groups: El Salvador, Guatemala, the EZLN in Chiapas, and the FARC in Columbia. This last group almost dissolved in 2009 but it regains power with the new backup coming from Ecuador and Venezuela. The Western countries also support several groups such as the Nuevo Contras (Nicaragua) or the Shinning Path (Peru). In the Middle East, NATO is most active as it backs both the PKK (Kurdistan) and the Baluchis of Iran and Pakistan (Jundallah) but Russia is supporting Hezbollah (Lebanon) and the Iraqi sunny resistance. In Asia, none of the two blocks are directly involved but several insurgencies are gaining strength again: Tamil in Sri Lanka, Moro in the Philippines, Kachin Independent Army in Burma and some growing unrest in Indonesia. Even India, slowly becoming very wealthy, is facing growing unrests from National Democratic Front of Bodoland (North East) and from the Communist Party of India (Maoist).

2011
From the beginning of the year, the global economy shows a few signs of recovering as the Western Countries change their production policies and turn toward new energy sources. Renewable energies are taking a larger place, low consumption engines are becoming the rule and all the countries that have it (among them Canada and USA) start to exploit oil shale. On March 2, the oil price goes down and stabilizes at about 160$. Meanwhile, Warsaw Pact 2 has increased its military expenditures but it seems that NATO might soon catch up.
The situation is very different when one looks at the third world. In these regions the situation is far from improving and the various unrest that evolved toward insurgency continue to grow. Food riots appear again in many countries and the various insurgent movements are quickly getting stronger, putting a heavy weight on most governments. Drug cartels are also increasingly powerful and put more weight on the authorities trying to fight them.
On April 24, an Ukrainian Brigade launches an attack on a Russian Battalion. The Russians are taken by surprise and no one survives. Three days later, it is released that all Russian taken prisoners had been shot in the head and that attack becomes know as the “Easter Massacre”. The Russians are outraged and the army move more units to the Ukrainian border. Claiming that it wants to regain control over Crimea, Ukraine launches an offensive on May 3. For a week this attack is successful and the siege of Sevastopol is starting. On May 20, troops from R.U.S.S. launch a counter-offensive along the entire Ukrainian border. Within 5 days, the Ukrainian troops are retreating from all positions except in Crimea.

[jester]

Excellent HQ and Jester.

Hope to borrow a lot of these ideas.

Jester i really like your economic explanation a _whole_ lot better than mine.



Probably not going for fullout RU vs US fight though.

Well, thanks, I just pieced much of it from what I see happening and read about in the news. Toss in a little history and here you go. As you see, I didn't include nukes flying.

And as I type this now, N. Korea is now threatening S. Korea talking about turning it into a pile of debris.

[Mohoender]

Well, thanks, I just pieced much of it from what I see happening and read about in the news. Toss in a little history and here you go. As you see, I didn't include nukes flying.

And as I type this now, N. Korea is now threatening S. Korea talking about turning it into a pile of debris.

Yes about a week after it was taken out of the terrorist states listing. I also got news saying that their leader is at an hospital (Oops, that might explains it). Situations are changing almost on a daily bases.:D

[Haven]

So where do you go from here though?

…..

Need some ideas here…… and a timeline….

But ultimately I’d these factions battling it over what is left of the US:

Milgov
Civgov
(Triggered by President assassination?)
Terrorists
Town/City Militia
National Guard
Chinese
EU
Russian
Cuban/Venezuelan

[Mohoender]

Personnaly the war goes on until 2015. with a fight between Mexico (+LSU) and USA in 2013. That occur after US refugees cross the border to Mexico. Civil war strikes both U.S. and Mexico in 2014.

Nukes start to fall in 2013 with China quickly wiped out. The Anti-shield system worked for the chinese missiles but it doesn't for the Russian ones. Several US cities are destroyed and 6 strategic locations in U.S. are hit by SS-18 Satan (20Mt). Before being destroyed China sent several missiles into space destroying the GPS system.

The nuclear exchange ends with EMPs attack worldwide at the end of 2013. Military bases are touched, survivng industries are devastated, civilian equipments are down but most military equipments survived. However, the lack of spare parts are slowly taking military equipments out. The devastation prevent most nations from rebuilding their industries.

U.S. president is killed. Milgov and Civgov are created with Utah and Texas independent. New America is also around and several native american nations made a drive for freedom, seizing their own territories (Seminoles, Cherokee, Navajo...). A third state exists (confederate sovereign states). That was taken from someone at the old RPG host.

Canada is pretty much in shape except for the nukes but Quebec is independent backed by the Franco-Belgian Union. Alaska is under control by Russian forces but disputed.

South America is in complete turmoil with Havana as well as several locations hit by nukes (Mexico, Nicaragua Venezuela...). Bolivia, Columbia, Peru are in Civil Wars. Argentina and Brazil were devastated by a short war but a Brazilian government remain in control over the Amazon Basin with its capital at Manaus. Chile is untouched and quite fine. Panama is controlled by Civgov.

Africa is simply a mess with only Kenya (allied to US) in shape along with a few countries allied to France (Senegal, southern Cameroon, Gabon, Mali and Burkina Faso). Forget about the Suez canal, it took direct hits. Kenya has a working refinery and Gabon is the main oil source for the Franco-Belgian Union.

The Middle East remain an active battlefield much as per cannon. Iran, however, is allied to Russia. Israel is the less devastated country with Iran outside of Tehran and oil regions. Half of Iraq fell to Muqtadah al-Sadr but allied troops are still fighting on its soil. It is facing full fledge civil war. Saudi Arabia is in civil war also with only Jedah and Meccah under control (the royal familly was killed). UAE and Oman are pretty much intact and they continue to produce some oil. Qatar, Bahrein and Kuwait are the rear bases to NATO along with Busher and Bender Abbas. Syria and Lebanon are devastated but still part in the war. Yemen is back to a tribe level. The Kurds are independent, backed by U.S., but in a very hard postion.

Afghanistan, India and Pakistan are a mess.

Australia is untouched except for EMP and it was capable of rebuilding a good part of its industry. it is mostly organized and it is the industrialized nation supplying US (limited supply so).

Asia is a mess with Thailand being the sole survivor. Japan was hit by nukes and devastated by natural disaters (Japanese Diaspora). Koreas are still at each other throats but they are back on the 38th parallel. China is in the hand of warlords with most major cities devastated. Tibet is organized.

Moscow and St Petersburg survived but many russian cities were nuked and the situation is very bad with limited state control but a working transsiberian works as a bloodline to Moscow's tiny surviving industry.

Sweden and Norway have signed a new Kalmar Union and they are still working to some extend. Finland, joined with Russia.

For the rest of Europe it depends. East Europe (including Ukraine) was devastated except for Hungary that remained outside of the war. EMPs devastated most of the industry, nevertheless.
Albania became the most powerful state of the Balkans with a powerful airforce made of Mig-21 and Mig-19.
Romania goes per cannon, Serbia is allied to Moscow as is Bulgaria. Croatia and Bosnia are allied to NATO and to Greece.
Turkey is under a military dictatorship with Istanbul intact. It allied with Italy and Russia during the Adriatic War. Now it's on its own.
Iberia is in turmoil and mostly insular but may be not that bad despite several cities devastated (Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Lisbonne...).
Germany is baddly hit with state controlled territories in southern Germany and western Austria. Vienna and eastern Austria is in Russian hands.
The most devastated countries are UK, Netherlands and Poland. They go more or less per cannon. Scotland and wales are independent.
France and Belgium left NATO in 2013 after being hit by some nukes and signed a separate peace with Warsaw Pact 2. They formed the Franco-Belgian Union and control the dead zone as per cannon.
Ireland, Denmark and Switzerland are intact but were touched by EMPs. Ireland retain only limited industries. Denmark is fine and Switzerland is Ok.
Italy was invaded by NATO and central authority disapeared. NATO has withdrawn and several independent states exist.
Malta is ran by the Knight Hospitalers who are fighting pirates from North Africa.

[ChalkLine]

The way I made my latest apocalypse was simple. I took the USA out of the equation and looked to see what would happen when the global juggernaut was gone and its client states were left alone in the face of their enemies.

Phase one;
US election fever reaches unheard of heights. One party wins by a narrow margin, which is turned over by the electoral college due to irregularities in the ballot. Soon outraged uprisings appear in each state for one or both sides. Actual shooting occurs, and the USA begins the slide to civil war. The National Guard is recalled from Iraq and units from South Korea, Afghanistan and other US bases shifted around. The classic Red/Blue State divide is the sides, and 'Purple' states are the battlefields.

Phase two;
As National Guard units clash in the CONUS, the US Army pulls back line troops to try and restore order. Iraq submerges in a sea of violence as insurgents see their chance and go for it. Israel tries a pre-emptive strike against Iran but is surprisingly repulsed by modern weaponry received from China. China has also sent weapons to Zimbabwe, which convulses in a civil war, the Congo, which is always convulsed in a civil war, and various Muslim former USSR states. As the crescendo of violence sweeps the world it's plain that if you have cash, you can buy Chinese weaponry. Insurgents, separatists and warlords every suddenly sprout tanks and ATGMs. The US Army is in an unenviable position. Desperately need at home, they have to pull out of most overseas missions and leave only token forces. Few have any illusions about what happens next.

Phase three;
From luke warm relations to hot war only take 31 hours on the Korean peninsula. NKA troops surge down over the DMZ and in a surprise manoeuvre, repeat MacArthur's landing at Seoul (albeit with many more losses). The world, with foreign troops dashing across the globe trying to put out brushfires, can do little as China lunges across the straights and into Taiwan.

[spielmeister]

______________________________________
President elected
Economy near collapse – President cuts military spending. Troop withdrawals begine from Iraq and other overseas military bases. Some military base closings similar to the 1990’s and the majority of the new weapons programs are scraped or put on hold due to lack of funding. Canadian and Mexican boarders are now more vulnerable due to lack of funding but this is nothing new to the boarder patrol. Police and state defense spending is also cut as states struggle to balance the budget. Crime rates climb. Unemployment rises. Anti-government groups grow in popularity nation wide as it appears another period of UN over USA begins.

President federalizes failing US automakers to keep them open and to provide the American public with alternative energy vehicles as gas prices soar.



Nice background Haven!

As I read this remember Mad Max which I just watched (again!) on cable last night. I get images of society painfully but steadily running downhill. Crime out of control and player characters who are in the MFP overwhelmed just trying to keep the peace. All the while, gasoline and even batteries and bullets are beginning to be rationed all around....

Its sad but where I come from, this appears to be pretty much a problem the military and police already have been dealing with for a long time.

[headquarters]

here is a little something we worked on for our current campaign -that we started playing in 2004.

Not everything has been translated as there is other commitments keeping me from writing full time ;)

http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/about.html

and -oh yeah- all spelling and grammatical errors are on the General!

[Haven]

OK i reworked this .... taking everyone suggestions into account... and this is the time line I'll be using for my new Twilight 2k13 game.

Updated original text too.


Reposted:

Twilight 2000 – RPG (alternative timeline)

Jan 2008 - President elected and Takes office.
Economy very shaky and to boost economy and balance budget the President raises taxes and cuts military spending. Slow troop withdrawals begin from Iraq and other overseas military bases. Some military base closings similar to the 1990’s and the majority of the new weapons programs are scraped or put on hold due to lack of funding.

Canadian and Mexican boarders are now more vulnerable due to lack of funding but this is nothing new to the boarder patrol.

Police and state defense spending is also cut as states struggle to balance the budget. Crime rates climb. Unemployment rises.

Anti-government groups grow in popularity nation wide as it appears another period of UN over USA begins.

Israel attacks Iran with air strikes to halt nuclear program – and is ineffective.
Iran now with a solid (anti-west) public opinion base form close ties to Iraq’s Shiite population

President at the request of the Iraqi government agrees to an 18 month pullout period
Insurgent violence surges due to US troop pullouts, but larger terrorist organizations bide their time and wait for the US to withdraw. Iraqi commanders are bought, manipulated etc into cooperation or selling of arms to all sorts of organizations. Syria and Iran’s involvement is heavily suspected.

Afghanistan – President deploys the majority of the US remaining troops from Iraq to Afghanistan switching the front from Iraq to Afghanistan

Nationalism rising in Russia and they’re getting nasty, as its former Warsaw Pact members seek to join NATO and Russia is obviously against this and consider this expansionism.
They use espionage, subversion, and political assassination by the KGB to keep the remaining former satellites in their sphere of influence.

They also manipulate the flow of oil and gas to Western Europe as a political weapon and to keep NATO and West Europe from interfering.

Taking Russia’s lead the Middle East and other OPEC members manipulate oil production to increase its costs, this backfires causing a worldwide recession.

President federalizes failing US automakers to keep them open and to provide the American public with alternative energy vehicles as gas prices soar.
Gas is scarce and expensive but few can afford a new alternative energy vehicle.

China has massive numbers of unemployed due to a world wide recession and it is pumping up its military to quell domestic unrest.
It also challenges fuel supplies in their sphere of influence, and they ramp up Nationalism to divert from their domestic problems.
“It’s those Damned Yankees for not buying our junk! And Russia for its strong arm tactics! “
They also build up their naval forces and shadow US planes and submarines in Japanese territorial waters.

China and India both want to emerge from the recession as the new economic leader of the world.
China and India begin arms race in earnest for world stage dominance.
China and India know that the next 50~100 years of technical, economic, and political dominance is at stake.
China averages 1 ‘shuttle type’ launch every month, India every other month.
China’s military sees drastic modernization.

China needing a trade partner in oil to fuel this growth finds one in Iran – China’s energy future is secure as long as there is oil in Iran and Iran sees a huge influx of modern weaponry, military advisors, and money.

Russia responding to this new threat and wanting to secure its oil pipelines (and thus its political weapon) - solidifies (reinvades) control over Georgia – NATO protests but held from meaningful action due to energy concerns.
They realize NATO is not going to respond.
The UN as usual says just words.

Russia has shattered NATO with its manipulation of gas and oil.

China takes note.

They also overthrow some nations and install puppet governments more inline with Moscow.
The Russian Federation Pact is signed (RFP) is the world calls it Warsaw Pact II.
Russian and EU sign trade agreements over oil stabilizing the EU economies at the cost of their inaction.

Defense budget cuts are for the most part reversed as the political landscape changes in the face of a very real Cold War 2.
This time with China as an additional player.

The spending provides a nice boost in the economy showing signs of recovery. The technology sector gets most of the money as the current administration prefers non-lethal/less-than-lethal and remote control options over ‘boots on the ground’. This also has the added benefit of being best for the economy.

An unknown submarine threatens a US carrier group and the carrier employs very aggressive Anti-Submarine Warfare assets, forcing a Chinese submarine to the surface, embarrassing China on the world stage.
China’s government sees this as a national security threat to their reputation in their sphere of influence and national standing and blockade Taiwan in response.

The US has no legal recourse in this matter due to Taiwan’s unique status as an unrecognized nation and is forced to sit on the sidelines.

Taiwanese military forces are reported to have attacked Chinese warships in international waters and responds with a full-scale invasion of Taiwan (to restore reputation and standing).
Obama does not fulfill Taiwan treaty obligations – suspends trade with China.
This action results in 200 US Marine deaths during pullout.
Thousands of Taiwanese are killed and the ‘rogue Chinese territory’ of Taiwan is subdued in 3 months.

Russia and the RFP broaden its reach by sending ‘military advisers’ into Cuba, Mexico, and Venezuela.

The conflict in Afghanistan spills over into Pakistan as Insurgents seek haven from US troops.
The already weakened Pakistani government fighting a loosing battle against a determined extremist Islamic insurgency collapses and goes into exile.
A small US peacekeeping force moves in to prevent Pakistan’s nuclear weapons from ‘falling into the wrong hands’ at the request of the ousted government and after 1 week of hard fighting is quickly withdrawn.
Quickly suppressed reports surface that the peacekeepers were too late and some of Pakistan’s arsenal is unaccounted for.

Saudi Arabia’s kingdom also collapses due to Islamic extremism. US bases in Saudi Arabia are reinforced and fight along side still loyal Saudi troops temporarily restoring the Saudi government to power. Brutal government crackdowns keep the population barely under control. Terrible human rights violations occur in the name of the Saudi government.

Local Russian Federation Pact forces skirmish with local PLA forces in Southern Russian Middle Eastern proxy nations, and rural Western China territories. Mostly in places ending with ‘Stan’ that you’ve never heard of before.
The local forces are finding there new weapons a good way to settle old national, racial, and religious scores across the boarder.

Chinese-Russian relations are at an all time low slowly increasing commitment in fights they don’t want and didn’t start but can’t back down from.

US military forces are over-extended to the breaking point spread to every hotspot around the globe.
US foreign opinion is at an all time low, especially amongst Muslim nations due to the disasters in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Iran works to consolidate its power and influence in Iraq.
EU sits idle choosing to close its eyes and hope this will all go away while Russia makes a fortune off its oil sales, continuing to revitalize its military power to cold war levels.
China’s economy with a secured source of cheap energy in Iran takes off and matches Russia step for step in military upgrades to maintain the balance of power in the region.

On the surface at least the US is keeping up – still developing high-tech answers to America’s last war, barely keeping its head above water.

Turning Point -
September 11th 2010 – In a coordinated effort most major cities on the east coast are car and truck bombed. The US responds with emergency relief and a declaration of a national state of emergency and within days begins to lick its wounds and point fingers much like the 2001 attacks as a nation mourns 2200 deaths.
The terrorists however, have other plans and follow up the original attacks with a second round of attacks the following week.

Chinese, European, Latin American, and Russian PMC (Private Military Contractor) groups are hired by unknown backers to further confuse the situation and to prevent racial profiling.
These groups also bring an additional level of sophistication to these attacks and are rarely caught, captured, or killed without overwhelming force.

Fear paralyzes the nation. One man with a sniper rifle shut DC down for weeks; this is orders of magnitude worse. Emergency services are overwhelmed and overworked. The attacks continue as a suspected 5000 terrorist/PMCs remain at large on the east coast 100s in each major city. Terrorist/PMCs carry out multiple hit and run tactics.

- Car bombings in industrial and city centers
- Mall shootings, and bombings
- Hospital shootings and bombings
- Police building shootings and bombings
- Sniper attacks at schools, businesses, and government facilities
- Government official assassination at the local and state level
- Sniper attacks on the highways killing random drivers

Parents keep their kids home from school and refuse to report to work.
Emergency aide workers – those that report to work – are overworked and exhausted
Police and first responders are decimated in terrorist efforts to eliminate them specifically

Sustained terrorist bombings are a daily occurrence.

Slowly attacks are beginning to be brought under-control under emergency powers granted to by the president and suspension of the Bill of Rights. However, terrorists and PMCs are still gaining entry to the US in a coordinated and steady supply.

US Military check points (National Guard) exist every few miles and regular patrols are conducted but these Military units are spread FAR too thinly.

State, county, city, and town Militias are deputized and formed filling the gaps where the military is spread to thin. These groups are usually under local government control and supplied from Police inventory as well as private weapons.

These groups run the gamut from organized small armies that are well supplied to 3 men in a pickup truck with hunting rifles.

Conduct and control of these groups is also fairly loosely regulated and some groups are little more than organized crime groups under the control of some corrupt politician or sheriff. For the most part people tolerate this preferring ‘home grown’ problems to terrorist attacks.

The attacks continue but it appears that eventually these attacks will eventually be brought under control.

Turning point 2 –
Dec 2nd 2010 - From an unknown vessel in international waters off the US East coast launches a nuclear device high into the air and explodes releasing a large EMP.
80% of all electronic devices on the east coast are fried.

What was left of the US economy has essentially ceased to exist as the technology sector is wiped out. Looting and chaos run rampant in the days after the attack as people try to secure supplies.

National Guard units do what they can but often it is the armed militias and not the civilians that are the worst offenders.

China declares itself ‘international relief’ and begins deploying troops to the US mainland. ‘Forward bases’ are established on the West coast. Airborne drops begin deploying the PLA to east coast disaster areas and metropolitan areas.

EU also declares the need for international relief and sends UN peacekeepers to the east coast disaster areas.

Russian and the RFP not to be outdone promises to ‘provide aide when and where needed’ but doesn’t elaborate.

It appears the new cold war will go hot over the ashes of the United States of America.
The situation does not promise stability for long………


Depending on what actions you’ve taken at Turning point 1:
- You’re just a civilian who now no longer has a reason to go to work and needs to figure out what to do next
- You’re a member of a State, county, city, or town militia.
- You’re a member of the National Guard
- You’re a member of a corporate security force
- You're a member of the US Military called back home

Further options:
- You’re a member of any of the ‘relief’ forces
- You’re a member of an Anti-Government group
- You’re a member of a PMC group trying to figure out how you’re paycheck is going to get to you in all this mess!

Pretty easy to take it from there. Good luck!

[Nowhere Man 1966]

I always thought that www.johntitor.com would be a good start along with the CBS show of recent vintage, "Jericho." John Titor is a supposed time traveller who claims there will be a civil war in the future and later a world war. I know for my Morrow Project game, I bummed a few plots off of it.

Chuck M.

[Stackmouse]

Sweden and Norway have signed a new Kalmar Union and they are still working to some extend. Finland, joined with Russia.
I really need to know what sort of situation would force Finland to join /w Russia? Just interested to know what was the idea behind this, because I really can't cook up an explanation of my own here :p

And yeah, "hi all". :)

[Mohoender]

I really need to know what sort of situation would force Finland to join /w Russia? Just interested to know what was the idea behind this, because I really can't cook up an explanation of my own here :p

And yeah, "hi all". :)

Quite simple, I just kept what was described in the game timeline v2.2 (highly criticized around here). As NATO invaded Finland, they had no choice but to join with Russia. Actually, as you ask, I'll have to rethink that over. They might well have joined with Russia in time of need and switch to the Kalmar Union when Russia launched its attack on Sweden.

Might not be ideal, but I may like that idea better.

[Mohoender]

Stackmouse

Actually, I agree with you and changed that in my own timeline. Finland fought NATO when its neutrality was violated but it remained officialy neutral.

However, it joined the New Kalmar Union after the last Russian attack over Scandinavia.

[Stackmouse]

Oh... I have completely forgotten what the status of Finland was in 2.2 - the timeline was the first thing that I tweaked when it came out :p Anyways, I just can't imagine how Finland would have sided with Russia, but all other options would be possible (trying to stay neutral and die, allying with other neutrals, allying with NATO :D )

We were a weird bunch during the cold war, but things are changing :)

[Brother in Arms]

Firstly

Stackmouse....Welcome!

And I agree Finland would never side with the Russians! The Winter War is huge source of pride among the Finns...They fought the Russians first alone! And handed their ass's to them, then fought them again this time sided with Germany. Then they fought the Germans and beat them too.

(OT: Finland is an amazing country with some of the most beutiful women I have ever seen :) By the way I got my M39 sitting here right next to the Computer)

Secondly:
Reading these time lines made me feel a bit queezy. They are so potentially real they are frightening though I do think certain aspects need to be toned down slightly. Because if all this stuff happened at once average Joe would be really scared and would start so much domestic mahem it would affect the time line. I will re-read it again and think if I can offer some suggestions.

Thirdly:
If you need any NPC's for your game I know one. Possibly two :) My best freind Sean lives in the ATL and is also a gunsmith and firearms enthusiast. Currently his wife from Sicily is about ready to have a baby. So I am considering going down there to visit them (if I can get this wisdom tooth pulled out)He also has my M1 Garand, that I need to pick up. Which is another good reason to go there. So depending on your time line of when things get hot, you got one or two well armed and somewhat trained NPC's. He and I both are High power shooters and gunsmiths by trade.

Brother in Arms

[Haven]

LOL sweet, BiA

We've actually recently kicked off the EMP and right now there is a lull in the storm between when everyone just kinda thinks it is a regular power outage then digression to shear panic once everyone realizes that the S*** has in fact hit the fan.

The PC's, probably because I am being an overly generous GM, have a leg up on this info and have already hijacked a 1960s truck and driven to a safe house with all their personal arsenals.

Unfortunately, Atlanta has very little strategic importance besides being the central population hub of Georgia (and some would say the South East). So coming up with a reason for my PC’s to go into that maelstrom rather than hiding out about 20 min north (by car) of ATL is a bit of a problem.

Its possible you’ve just given me the answer, with a relative or good friend that is working in ATL gets in touch with them some how and needs an escort out of the looting, panic, etc that ATL will be.

Then the Chinese/Russians/EU 'peacekeepers' will start showing up via Airdrop and Airplane…not to mention Nat'l Guard still in the area.

Also added is the fact that most likely Milgov and Civgov will split over how to handle the invasion on the West coast and due to lack of communications from DC and Airforce 1 and that will then create some more drama.

[LAW0306]

Great Fantasy work here but being in the military now let me eat some holes...One

EMP most of our stuff is now protected from it and has been for the last 10 to 15 years..so no effect there..

two..

Invasion..how will they get here. no other country in the world has an airforce or navy large enough to make it accross the lake or the logistical support to supprot there troops here..

our navy largest in the world and most powerfull would sink or shoot down any thing coming even the most modern stuff from anyone else..

our nukes..we would make anyone glow if the even came close to our coast.

command and control the milgov and civ gov split could never happen trust me on this if ..i say more i goto jail just trust me on this one..

our ground troops..just two of our divisions beat down Iraq in 3 weeks of combat.. so the other 10 we have at home would crush anyone on our home turf not to mention our 8 NG divisions and the 2 to 8 million armed former military members that would come out of the wood work and the 2 to 8 million non ex military members that are armed that would show up... so who has that much power no one..

[Spoe]

EMP most of our stuff is now protected from it and has been for the last 10 to 15 years..so no effect there..

Military equipment, yes. But civilian electronics? Not so much (pretty much no intentional protection at all). I wrote the sidebar for EMP effects for TW2013 and did pretty significant research on this.

Regarding the timeline, well, I threw some ideas their way early one but didn't have much input thereafter so I'll refrain from commenting (unless Smokewolf tells me to go ahead).

[smokewolf]

Regarding the timeline, well, I threw some ideas their way early one but didn't have much input thereafter so I'll refrain from commenting (unless Smokewolf tells me to go ahead).

Feel free to.

[kato13]

I am a huge fan of realism and accuracy. I carry a pocket digital scale with me so I can weigh items I see during the day for my equipment database. (Note if I am ever stopped by the police I am sure they will consider me a drug dealer.)

I want my games to be as realistic as possible, but I see the reasons some compromise realism for game play. Methanol production is my largest pet peeve in the game, but if others want to use it to enhance their characters movement it is cool with me.

For one example regarding time lines I never liked Division Cuba going to Mexico as I felt they should go to Nicaragua. But if the time line was not written the way it was there would be little reason to have fun soviet equipment in the US, and no common enemy for all us sons of the Cold war to rally against.

[smokewolf]

Just some food for thought...

http://stop-emp.com/index2.html

They have white papers and such discussing EMP effects.

A good read was the:
CRS Report for Congress
High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) and High Power Microwave (HPM) Devices: Threat Assessments - http://stop-emp.com/crs.pdf

Especially the sections dealing with Private Sector Vulnerability and Military Vulnerability.

Also of good read was the US Congressional EMP Commission report - http://stop-emp.com/EMPCExecRpt_Final072204.pdf .

[Marc]

Very interesting material, Smokewolf.

[Haven]

So confused as to which timeline we're talking about now....

One thing (i think) ... that i wanted to mention is that the military C&C will still be largely intact (hardened against EMP) but my campaign will be largely about civilians and I am assuming that infrastructure is not hardened.

But ultimately my campaign would be considered Hollywood next to any real close scrutiny .... and i am ok with that =)

However I do welcome the feedback and you've given me a lot to think about in terms of active/reserve military at home.
Also China would have boosted its Navy during the build up but again I accept that this is probably an impossible amount of time to compete with the US Navy.
But again i am sorta counting on them to be in the Persian gulf and not on the west coast.

[smokewolf]

Turning Point -
September 11th 2010 – In a coordinated effort most major cities on the east coast are car and truck bombed. The US responds with emergency relief and a declaration of a national state of emergency and within days begins to lick its wounds and point fingers much like the 2001 attacks as a nation mourns 2200 deaths.
The terrorists however, have other plans and follow up the original attacks with a second round of attacks the following week.

Chinese, European, Latin American, and Russian PMC (Private Military Contractor) groups are hired by unknown backers to further confuse the situation and to prevent racial profiling.
These groups also bring an additional level of sophistication to these attacks and are rarely caught, captured, or killed without overwhelming force.


I like where you're going with this. It's got my mind thinking about Mexican day laborers being hired to drive the vehicles or deliver suitcases to buildings, etc.

[smokewolf]

Turning Point -
September 11th 2010 – In a coordinated effort most major cities on the east coast are car and truck bombed. The US responds with emergency relief and a declaration of a national state of emergency and within days begins to lick its wounds and point fingers much like the 2001 attacks as a nation mourns 2200 deaths.
The terrorists however, have other plans and follow up the original attacks with a second round of attacks the following week.

Chinese, European, Latin American, and Russian PMC (Private Military Contractor) groups are hired by unknown backers to further confuse the situation and to prevent racial profiling.
These groups also bring an additional level of sophistication to these attacks and are rarely caught, captured, or killed without overwhelming force.


Also, I remember back after 9/11 that there were "news" reports about a doctor conspiracy. That one of the reasons why in America there were lots of "muslim" doctors and IT workers (although I think most would be Hindu) was that they were trying to kill us with medicine and bad treatments and probing our electronic defenses from the inside. And when the time was right, they'd be in place for the large scale assaults.

There could be some pretty good options using this mentality.

Doctors showing up as first responders, killing survivors.
Doctors inoculating first responders with poisons.
Doctors being suicide bombers in the hospitals, wouldn't even need military grade explosives, got everything they need in the hospital.
IT workers crashing the internet.
IT workers flooding the internet with false information. Can you imagine if one of them hacked into the warning system colleges are using now adays to alert students to campus threats?

[Haven]

I totally respect everyone's opinion here.

And I do think an 'agree to disagree' is probably the best option.



I think in response to LAW's comments would be: The mothballing of a vast majority of our Navy and overall Military force in light of a new 'diplomacy is the best option and we need to cut costs' administration.

And this would allow Russia and China to gain strength/catch up and cut down our military supremacy.

Again this is fantasy and is an extreme version of the current administration.





In response to Smokewolf - when i was thinking of that particular part and how to really tip the balance in favor of chaos was the line in 'Body of Lies' where Russell Crowe mentions "What the terrorist are finding out is that the world as we know it is a lot more vulnerable than we might think"

Or some such line...

[Twilight2000v3MM]

Well guys my 2 cents on the Mexican border is that you can probably sneak in a couple of platoon sized elements over a few weeks and scatter them throughout So. Cal ALONE with no problem. And when I mean the mexican border I mean from CA to TX.

So imagine how much stuff gets accross our borders on a weekly basis.

[pmulcahy11b]

Phase three;
From luke warm relations to hot war only take 31 hours on the Korean peninsula. NKA troops surge down over the DMZ and in a surprise manoeuvre, repeat MacArthur's landing at Seoul (albeit with many more losses). The world, with foreign troops dashing across the globe trying to put out brushfires, can do little as China lunges across the straights and into Taiwan.

I can't say everything about what I know, but that's surprisingly possible -- even right now. Losses would be massive on both sides -- very quickly. And it could quickly and easily spill out of the peninsula.

Just a little correction, though -- MacArthur's landing was at Inchon. There's a decent-sized river, but Seoul is inland.

Here's an interesting factoid: Seoul and Pyongyang are within easy artillery rocket range of each other!

[smokewolf]

In response to Smokewolf - when i was thinking of that particular part and how to really tip the balance in favor of chaos was the line in 'Body of Lies' where Russell Crowe mentions "What the terrorist are finding out is that the world as we know it is a lot more vulnerable than we might think"

Or some such line...

Thanks. I didn't know about this movie. Now I have something to go rent and watch.

[Haven]

You'll have to try and catch it in theaters or more likely DVD when it comes out.


Here we go...

Ed Hoffman: Our world as we know it is much simpler...to put to an end than you might think.

[smokewolf]

Ed Hoffman: Our world as we know it is much simpler...to put to an end than you might think.

That sounds like a perfect tagline for the Twilight War.

Better than...all Natalya wanted was a pony. ;)

[kato13]

I have pruned this thread of some unpleasantness. If you had useful information in the old thread please cut and paste it.

[pmulcahy11b]

That sounds like a perfect tagline for the Twilight War.

Better than...all Natalya wanted was a pony. ;)

How about: All Natalya wanted was a pony...but ended up eating it a few months later...

[headquarters]

Great Fantasy work here but being in the military now let me eat some holes...One

EMP most of our stuff is now protected from it and has been for the last 10 to 15 years..so no effect there..

two..

Invasion..how will they get here. no other country in the world has an airforce or navy large enough to make it accross the lake or the logistical support to supprot there troops here..

our navy largest in the world and most powerfull would sink or shoot down any thing coming even the most modern stuff from anyone else..

our nukes..we would make anyone glow if the even came close to our coast.

command and control the milgov and civ gov split could never happen trust me on this if ..i say more i goto jail just trust me on this one..

our ground troops..just two of our divisions beat down Iraq in 3 weeks of combat.. so the other 10 we have at home would crush anyone on our home turf not to mention our 8 NG divisions and the 2 to 8 million armed former military members that would come out of the wood work and the 2 to 8 million non ex military members that are armed that would show up... so who has that much power no one..

EMPs and effects on electrical or electronic equipment is still debated - catastrophic damage seems a likely outcome in many plausible scenarios.Hardening of electronic circuits against emp apply to some equipment ,but not all .Nor can hardening equipment protect it in all circumstances . (Farraday cages not practical /antennae are up ,circuits rely on silicon chips rather than vacuum tubes -like much eastern bloc equipment have )

The power of the armed forces is undeniable and all well and good if the enemy presents himself in a regular war -or even in an irregular one such as the current ones you are fighting -and might be winning by the looks of it .It is a lot easier if the enemy is someone easily "alienated" by your own side .Get into a grey zone and people will start making decisisons that mix things up a lot. ( say for instance a blue and grey zone ;) )

But breakdown of civil services and supply lines would cause unrest ,making the 150 000 000 firearms in private ownership in the US a liability rather than an asset for someone running an operation to get things to simmer down .Not that average people would turn their back on the goverment and country for no reason or commit crimes just for the hell of it -but more that interests would collide and the needs of loved ones might conquer law and principle -for instance if food or fuel got scarce the question of who is to control distribution would quickly turn ugly imho.(h for humble as always -but this is a discussion so..)

Not to mention the situations you would have were things are really bad -look to the situation after recent tropical storms,earthquakes and the publics reaction to certain methods used by law enforcement in apprehending criminals in certain instances .Sparks will fly and there is no denying that a society under pressure is highly combustible.

As for an outright invasion - no one can touch the CONUS - probably not the overseas territories and states either .

If things should go TWILIGHT wrong from now until 2011 I lean to explanations such as massive terrorist/assymetrical attacks targeting vital functions combined with psy ops to achieve destabilization and lawlessness .As soon as a conventional enemy shows himself -like an insurgent coalition or an invader, people will rally for the fight.

As for a split in the command/governing structure - this might very well occur as long as sufficient chaos is instigated -civgov/milgov might not be the name of it ( more likely milgov/milgov) , nevertheless wide distances alone is sufficient to make for differences in a governing body .Throw in a hundred or thousands of miles of lawless terrain between the seat of power and the areas it is supposed to rule and disrupted communications - things are bound to get mixed up .Add a human factor that might not be positive - you can get a pretty good plot out of it .For a game that is .As for real life -this has happened several times throughout history to powerful states in times of crisis.

History repeats itself.

I dont think it will today though.

hehe