T2K survival..RV style

[mikeo80]

I was sitting here at my computer, reading some of the posts, enjoying an adult beverage...And I had a thought. (Oh, no! :p)

Somehow, the movie Independance Day came to mind. Specifically the part where Captain Hiller (Will Smith) meets Russell Casse (Randy Quaid) as Russell is part of a caravan of RV's and other camping types escaping from the devistation of Los Angeles.

So...my thought ran...is this a viable tactic?

In favor:

1) Mobility. Yes, RV's have a horrifying MPG rating. But you CAN move. A full tank of gas would get something like Russell's RV about 350-400 miles.

2) Comforts. You can sleep in a bed, have a roof over your head, cook something on the internal stove, have about 50 gallons of water, whatever food is stored on board. You can even use the internal toilet.

Against:

1) Reserve stocks. RV's have a good bit of internal room. Nothing like our houses, though. I would think that after a week to ten days, you are empty.

2) Mobility. Once you are out of gas, you are DONE. No movement.

I am interested to see what you think.

My $0.02

Mike

[Medic]

Take an 8-ton (metric) delivery truck and convert it to an RV. You'll have much more room and if you choose wisely (let's say, Mercedes-Benz Actros or Unimog), you'll have (at least some) off-road mobility as well. With a bigger vehicle, more room for stores and relatively smaller mile per gallon ratio.

Edit: And if you want true mobility, no matter the weather, build the RV on Ural or Zil and you can guarantee, it will start even in -35 degrees centigrade - if not, build a fire underneath the engine and try again in fifteen minutes.

[weswood]

Don't forget that most decent sized RVs have an onboard generator.

As far as fuel, it's like any other vehicle. Convert it to alchohol or biodiesel.

[pmulcahy11b]

As far as T2K vs Independence Day -- in Independence Day. the apocalypse is severe, but it has just happened. Not everything is wrecked or worn out, and people are still civilized and patriotic (at the end, for the entire planet).

In T2K, the apocalypse has been going on for nearly five years. Almost everything that still works is being quickly overworked. Civilization has given way to mere survival in most cases. Patriotism is given to whoever allows you to take care loved ones.

Your RV is a luxury now, because it still works. Therefore, it's a target for criminals, or may be taken by your new government because it's something that works. Most civilian vehicles are not built for such abuse, and most other RVs haven't survived to this point. You need to be heavily armed to keep your RV, and to take spares from other people who have them. (How many campaigns have you been in where the players have become marauders out of necessity?)

Such a large caravan of RVs will not happen in T2K.

[stormlion1]

Spare parts are a issue, as a rolling caravan moves in time they will begin to break down and parts for RV's may share some compatibility with other vehicles that compatibility will not be a 100%. I give it something like a few months before they begin to break down and scrounging fails to find fresh parts. Even tires will be a issue given time. On a lighter note, you can always pull the engines and lighten the load and have cattle or horses pull them and replace the tires with something more durable.

[mikeo80]

Paul and StormLion1 are both correct. Paul is right because he reminded me of the time frame involved, Stormlion because IF RV caravan is going, parts do become an issue. That will teach me to post while indulging in an adult beverage. :D

How about this? The caravan starts during/right after TDM? That fits more into the Independance Day scenario, the govts have not absconded with anything left over, parts are still available, gas is somewhat available (power for gas pumps comes to mind), criminals are still reeling from TDM as much as anyone. There, that might cover it?

My $0.02

Mike

[raketenjagdpanzer]

You'd basically be stuck with backroads (which isn't necessarily a bad thing given the social breakdown, but fraught with it's own hazards as well) given that most/all cars on the highways would be dead, stuck in the lanes, due to EMP.

[stormlion1]

If you have a working RV the main roads will be a good source of parts and most especially tires. Your going to want to load up on tires and tire patch kits. Which of course adds weight which reduces mileage. Which will already be reduced due to running on back roads and dirt roads as there the ones most likely be to clear. The best bet is to act like a Gypsy Caravan. Moving short distances and setting up shop for a time and then moving on scrounging as you go. One thing I will say though your standard RV isn't bulletproof so anyone takes a pot shot at it is going to leave holes.

[Tegyrius]

I think the real value of an RV chassis may not be in a conventional one with living quarters, but in one that serves as a specialized facility on wheels. A mobile dental clinic (http://www.fsvcc.com/dental/)*, health clinic (http://amohs.com/medical-mobile-hospitals/mobile-clinic-vehicles), veterinary clinic (http://magnummobilesv.com/magnum-mobile-products/veterinary-units)**, workshop/machine shop, soil testing laboratory***, or so forth is going to provide much greater functionality than a few cases of portable equipment. With proper staffing, it also becomes a serious resource that can be used to barter with survivor communities. In this scenario, the PCs can either be part of the primary specialist team, "convoy" security and scouts, or other support specialists.

If you want to stretch the concept, you also could build a convoy around a mobile command post (http://www.hackneyev.com/products/homeland_com.php), which serves as both team comm/ops center and a link back to a higher echelon to which the PCs presumably report.

Going a little farther afield, I've always thought a racing team's support trailer would be interesting as a base vehicle (particularly in a Merc: 2000 setting). With one of the bigger 53' semi-trailers, you get living quarters and a workshop area and tools. Fueling that prime mover is gonna suck, though.

- C.

* After three years of unchecked tooth decay, how much would you pay for anesthesia and professional removal?

** May sound useless, but consider its value in a livestock-dependent agricultural community.

*** Likewise a potentially priceless resource for re-establishing agriculture after several years of nuclear and chemical warfare, population movement, and uncontrolled industrial waste releases.

[Cdnwolf]

Two good books that deal with moving across the country after an apocalypse are "The Stand" by Stephen King (get the extended version) and "The Last Canadian" by William Heine.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2775873-the-last-canadian

[rcaf_777]

Here are some examples that I found

[Apache6]

Gentlemen: In real life I bought a travel trailer rather then an RV, since there is less to break on a trailer then an RV. I already had a truck, that can pull a trailer, as most military vehciles could.

All the advantages with in my opinion less of the costs/logistics. The "West Side Boys" group I posted had their Headman equipped with a trailer as a 'luxury' and status symbol.

[Apache6]

I think some of these might be seen?

[Apache6]

3 More

[Cdnwolf]

Come off of it... no one thought of this classic??? (Stripes with Bill Murray)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bENF08EyIck&feature=player_embedded

[pmulcahy11b]

Come off of it... no one thought of this classic??? (Stripes with Bill Murray)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bENF08EyIck&feature=player_embedded

IIRC, I came up with a version of this on my site. (If I didn't, I need to.) Look in the Best Vehicles that Never Were section -- if I have it, it will probably be under Best APCs that Never Were.

[.45cultist]

There's a lot of data on converting the 2 1/2 ton shop truck into an RV. I call it the "Fun Truck". With the fixtures from an RV or travel trailer they are pretty roomy.

[rcaf_777]

Come off of it... no one thought of this classic??? (Stripes with Bill Murray)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bENF08EyIck&feature=player_embedded

I also posted a picture of it above too

[Medic]

Professional vehicles aside, of the ones posted above, the Toyota Landcruiser conversion would be the most useful - an early 90ies Landcruiser is a beast when it comes to mobility off-road and well, unless you are hauling a family of four, you can fit in to the vehicle just fine. Add a tent, folding down from the rear end, some camo paint and netting and you'll have a mobile outpost that can out-run or -maneuver most enemies but provide some standard of living.

[Schone23666]

IIRC, I came up with a version of this on my site. (If I didn't, I need to.) Look in the Best Vehicles that Never Were section -- if I have it, it will probably be under Best APCs that Never Were.

The Landmaster? That's from Damnation Alley, right?

I'd tweak the weapons and their placement a little if it were up to me, but other than that....yeah, THAT'S the sort of RV you want for the apocalypse. :p

[pmulcahy11b]

The Landmaster? That's from Damnation Alley, right?

I'd tweak the weapons and their placement a little if it were up to me, but other than that....yeah, THAT'S the sort of RV you want for the apocalypse. :p

Yeah, I have that, but I was thinking of the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle from Stripes. Guess I have to get to work...

[pmulcahy11b]

There's a lot of data on converting the 2 1/2 ton shop truck into an RV. I call it the "Fun Truck". With the fixtures from an RV or travel trailer they are pretty roomy.

The ADC(M) in Korea (and I'm sure, other generals) have modified 5-tons that are basically a mobile bedroom complete with bed, dresser, small cubicle bathroom, a toaster oven, a small table, and other amenities all bolted down so they don't slide around during movement. Even the drawers on the dresser are lockable against movement.

[pmulcahy11b]

The Landmaster? That's from Damnation Alley, right?

I'd tweak the weapons and their placement a little if it were up to me, but other than that....yeah, THAT'S the sort of RV you want for the apocalypse. :p

Email me about your tweaks. We'll talk.

[weswood]

I've always thought about this bass akwards. I've thought it would be cool to make a RV out of something like a BTR. Obviously wouldn't be as big internally, but still cool. IMO.

[General Pain]

Rvs would be a great solution for survival in a post-apo.

But IMHO some small modifications should be made.

It should be able to run on ALC - so a still is a must
Some ARMOR plating could also be smart
A plow in case of snow etc. + chains for the wheels
a device to harvest rainwater might be smart
maybe a lookoutpost on top
spare parts offcourse

well that was some of my suggestions

[rcaf_777]

The Landmaster? That's from Damnation Alley, right?:p

Here the landmaster and EM-50

[Littlearmies]

The best bet is to act like a Gypsy Caravan. Moving short distances and setting up shop for a time and then moving on scrounging as you go.

Isn't this pretty much the default for long distance travel in TW2K? Unless you are carrying a lot of spare fuel or you have pre-prepared fuel caches surely there is no other way to do it? And I doubt a Humvee is more fuel efficient than an RV (even if the humvee has other advantages).

I love Tegyrius's idea of the mobile specialist facility. In the Highlands of Scotland there are still mobile libraries, banks and shops (my Uncle is visited by a fishmonger once a week - and he is only about 11 miles from Inverness). Actually I could see mobile traders tagging along with the doctor and dentist - selling to the patients and their relatives coming for treatment. I think this could work into quite a few possibilities: characters becoming traders and travelling a circuit as the clinic does it's "rounds", being employed to guard the doctor, using the caravan as cover for intelligence work, all kinds of stuff.

[.45cultist]

T2K2 Special Ops has an RV in it and Twilight 2013 had various sizes of RVs and Travel trailers that can be reversed to T2K2 stats. Another option would be a GMC Suburban like the one in "Dante's Peak" and a travel trailer.

[mikeo80]

I think we covered some of this in a previous thread. I can not find it right now. (My Google-fu is weak tonight.)

My Observations:

1) As war starts in China, I think you would see some preppers start heading for the hills.

2) First nukes in China, I think any prepper left in a city is out the door. Heading to their main base camp. Getting down into their hole and pulling the cover over them. You will also see the first civilians heading out. Most of them do not have a CLUE where they are going...They just want to be away from the city.

3) First Nukes in Europe: The average civilian will be scared to death. Any one with the sense God gave an ant is heading outbound from the major cities. The problem is with so many on the road, the roads become clogged....quickly. Look at Atlanta during last ice event. once the first problems hit the roads, EVERYTHING stopped.

Now where does this leave the RV'r? IF they got out early, I do not see major problems. Oh a tie up here or there, sure. Maybe some gasoline shortages as people fill their RV's, towed vehicles, and spare gas cans. IF the roads deteriorate, the RV'r is in trouble. As I read RV's, roads only or VERY Mild terrain. I point at the RV convoy in Independence Day Movie. Out in very flat desert.

I look around my area of Fayetteville, NC. Yes, relatively flat. BUT most of that flat area consists of farms. That means you have to negotiate the rows that the farmer planted. IF they are pointed the way you want to go fine. Going over said rows, not so good unless moving very slow. No more than 5 - 10 MPH. I would think at more than that, you tear the bottom out of your RV. IF the ground is not wet. Soil here in this part of NC is mostly sand. Can be very nasty when very wet, but it does dry out fairly quickly.

Now let's say, you are good at reading the tea leaves. You read last night about the first nukes that Russia dumped on China. You packed your RV, filled the gas tank, maybe got 10 - 20 gallons extra in gas cans. Maybe you even thought a little and topped off your propane tank and got 10 - 20 more gallons of water.

Now what do you have? About 400 miles of travel before gas tank starts getting really LOW and you need to think about using your reserve gas. Forty gallons of water in the clean water tank, what ever food, clothing, weapons, people and odds and ends that you crammed into said RV. A family of four, you probably have at most 10 days to two weeks of supplies on board.

I am really tired tonight, so I am going to end this diatribe here. I will pick it up again soon. Trust me, there is a reason I am going down this particular rabbit hole. No, I did NOT see a White Rabbit.......

My $0.02

Mike

[kato13]

I think we covered some of this in a previous thread. I can not find it right now. (My Google-fu is weak tonight.)



Admin Note: Merged the two threads.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Check out "Panic in Year Zero"; I think you can find the whole thing on Youtube. It's an older one, but good.

[.45cultist]

Ray Milland did a good job with "Panic in the Year Zero". I'd recommend looking at the conversions of U.S. and Canadian M109 shop trucks online. RV and travel trailers would need to learn convoy tactics pretty quick or be deep in the woods if staying in place.

[mikeo80]

Admin Note: Merged the two threads.

Thanks, Kato.

I knew this thread was out here...somewhere...

Like I said, my Goggle-fu was very weak last night.

More on the rabbit hole later. Got to go to work.

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

I told you that I would take you farther down the rabbit hole...

SO here goes.

Now, we left out intrepid escapees with about 10 - 14 days of food, water for four people.

How do we fix this scenario.

IF these good folks are not really preppers but are thinking about the future, one idea is small, out of the way storage sheds. Public Storage Company says it has the largest selection of units. So if our travelers had planned ahead, had a (relatively) secure site picked out, they could have pre-placed extra dried food, weapons, ammo, clothing, etc. Now if you have a 5 x 5 unit, the ceiling is eight feet high. That gives you 200 cubic feet of storage. I bought a 90 day supply of dried. Two boxes, about 2 x 3 x 2. 12 cubic feet. The math starts to make some sense.

Now, lets go down the rabbit hole a little more.

The family just visited uses the RV quite a lot. They visit parks, historical sites. They make sure the RV stays above 1/2 tank of gas, 1/2 tank of clean water, and the dirty water is as empty as possible. Maybe 7 days of food. With such high mobility, you can not have a storage unit in every spot you visit. How would you solve the problem? I see maybe keeping within a 400 mile radius of a few storage units? Expensive. You could loose a lot of investment if the balloon goes up. Any other thoughts?

Again, trust me. I do have an ultimate end to this rabbit hole. Still have not seen a White Rabbit. But I DID glance up and see "something" white down here.

I need to rack out early tonight. VERY early appointment tomorrow. Followed by work. Whooopppeee!!!!!!

My $0.02

Mike

[.45cultist]

I think the maintainance rules gain importance to civilians with these. The early seasons of "The Walking Dead" had a cantankerous 1970's RV. But a rough rule of thumb to use with RVs and travel trailers is when the potable water needs refilling, the black and grey water(if separate) will soon need to be emptied.

[mikeo80]

Yes, Alice, we are going to chase the rabbit. At least for a little while longer.

SO what is the purpose of all of this discourse?

In about 15 months, I am VERY actively planning to retire. I have worked since I was 13. I'm done.

One of the options I am investigating is living in RV permanently. Many of the concerns I have are emergency supplies. Since it will probably only be my self wander the highways and byways of the USA, I only have to plan for myself.

SO I put here some of the thoughts and concerns I have. I am very interested in seeing other thoughts and comments you have.

My $0.02

Mike

[CDAT]

I live almost full time in a 1980 24ft RV, I say almost as I do spend some time visiting with family and stay in a spare room or on the couch then. For one person there is plenty of space for most thing. One thing to look at that I wish I had is a bypass to the propain tank so you can use other tanks and save your onboard tank.

[.45cultist]

could someone retrofit one of the bottle adapters for large immobile tanks? That also adds one more item to scavenge. I started looking at the T2013 vehicles and T2K2 special ops sourcebooks . Also the net has data for decades of specs. I'd like to include more such items in the game.

[CDAT]

could someone retrofit one of the bottle adapters for large immobile tanks? That also adds one more item to scavenge. I started looking at the T2013 vehicles and T2K2 special ops sourcebooks . Also the net has data for decades of specs. I'd like to include more such items in the game.

Simple answer, yes. It would not even be that hard, just a simple adaptor.

[.45cultist]

I've been looking at the 1995 models, since they could be used for both my games. I noticed one specifically mentioned solar adaption. I'm starting to make notes.

[mikeo80]

I live almost full time in a 1980 24ft RV, I say almost as I do spend some time visiting with family and stay in a spare room or on the couch then. For one person there is plenty of space for most thing. One thing to look at that I wish I had is a bypass to the propain tank so you can use other tanks and save your onboard tank.

You are the person I need to talk with! I am thinking along the same lines, live in RV, but visit others from time to time. Do you travel a lot? Or stay settled in a few selected areas? If this is too personal, do not answer, are you alone or with someone? I am thinking about doing this alone. Thoughts?

Any hints or guidance would be appreciated!!

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

I've been looking at the 1995 models, since they could be used for both my games. I noticed one specifically mentioned solar adaption. I'm starting to make notes.

If you do not mind, forward a link about this!! Interesting possibilities!!

My $0.02

Mike

[CDAT]

You are the person I need to talk with! I am thinking along the same lines, live in RV, but visit others from time to time. Do you travel a lot? Or stay settled in a few selected areas? If this is too personal, do not answer, are you alone or with someone? I am thinking about doing this alone. Thoughts?

Any hints or guidance would be appreciated!!

My $0.02

Mike

Single, with no dependents, and like I said live in a 24ft RV so just under 200square feet. It is an older RV so it does not have a lot of the nice features that new ones have, seeing some of the new ones with their pullouts and such look almost as nice a house. Most of the time I stay in one place, but like to have the option to move whenever I want easily. The biggest things that I would suggest is make sure it has AC and the gas bypass for your propane tank. You may think that you do not need AC, up here in western Washington there have been many a day that I get home from work and it is 120 in side but only 70 or so outside. If you do not have AC you will need to make sure you park in the shade and keep good air flowing. As for the bypass you can just use the onboard tank but then every time you need to refill you have to move the unit, not as big as issue if you are traveling a lot but if you set up some place for some time nice to be able to just use a smaller tank and fill it keeping you main tank full. If you are going to be where it is cold (below freezing) you need to make sure you have a way to insulate you water hose, most common way that I have seen is simple pipe insulation and some heat tape. I have been where it is as low at about 8 degrees F for extended time and that work fine for me.

[mikeo80]

Thanks for the great info, CDAT!

I am currently looking at a 26' based on a Ford truck frame. Still in the planning/wishing/wondering stage, but definitely on my list..

My $0.02

Mike

[.45cultist]

If you do not mind, forward a link about this!! Interesting possibilities!!

My $0.02

Mike

I was looking up Airstream, I could use it's retro look in Dark Conspiracy as well. If you see a model you like, you can type it's name with "specs" added and get the data on it. I lean towards travel trailers, but there are RV's too. If properly done, PC's will treat it like a tank, with the pros and cons that go with it. I'd use some device like an NPC to emphasize the hot showers, AC, powered devices.

[.45cultist]

While statting the travel trailer, one thing occurred to me. Using travel trailers or RV's, notice if the players get careless emptying the black and grey water tanks! You then get to role on the disease chart if they draw water close by. Also, I don't believe that Paul Mulcahy has anything to fear when it comes to equipment generation. This makes me appreciate his T2K "Janes" all the more!

[SionEwig]

I saw this thread and it jogged some thoughts I'd been having involving such items for another PA scenerio I've been working on.

Back before I retired w would on occasion use RVs (self propelled and travel trailers) for part of our base camps, often in some pretty remote locations. With careful driving and often going very slow, we could usually get them over extremely rough roads.

Something else to think on, especially in the early days of a PA scenerio, is how often you see RVs hauling other vehicles or cargo trailers. Also it's not a big deal to see multiple bicycles on a rack or even a dirt bike or two strapped on a RV.

For some possible inspiration and possible ideas you may want to read through these two blogs about folks doing multi year trips in RVs. One is a converted early 70s VW bus and the other is a 1985 Toyota Dolphin.

http://bodeswell.org/

http://www.followthewind.net/

I've got some additional ideas, but I need to organize my thoughts.

[.45cultist]

I'm working on descriptions and studying the T2K2.2, T2013 RV's and Travel trailers, if I reverse the T2013, I will give credit to them since they did the hard work.