[TW2013] Hasty ambush

[Michael Lewis]

I'm not really understanding hasty ambush. How can it be an ambush when you know the enemy is already there?

Does this simulate real life?

[Medic]

In real life ambushes come in two types: hasty and prepared.

Prepared ambush is one you have time to set up properly, at a spot you expect or know the enemy to roll through.

Hasty ambush is one you set up in a hurry when you spot the enemy before they spot you. It is far less organized - sometimes to the point of the ambushing side hitting the dirt at the nearest proper spot that provides a decent firing position.

[Sanjuro]

The movie "Kelly's Heroes" has a great example of a hasty ambush; the team are crossing open ground when an enemy unit approaches along the adjacent road. They quickly take position behind whatever cover is available, then launch their attack.

[Michael Lewis]

Yeah, but it states in the rules of TW2013 that you can set a hasty ambush between pauses. This is after you had contact and know where the enemy is. That's what I don't understand.

[Bullet Magnet]

OK, in the 2013 rules, is "contact" defined as "you see the enemy" or does it mean they've seen you as well?

If it's just you seeing them, then it seems to me you should be able to make some preparations, like this hasty ambush.

Of course, if they see you as well, things are different. However, if I was running the game, I'd have to consider the terrain the group is in. If there's plenty of cover (trees, bushes, etc) the group could hide, and even if the enemy know they are "in those trees", they won't necessarily know WHICH trees have soldiers behind them. Though obviously, you're not gonna hit them with surprise, assuming the enemy decide to engage.

[cavtroop]

Reading this, on page 143, it seems to me the intent is that during the pause rather than reset your weapons, reload, use a radio, etc, you take a few moments to conceal yourself and take aim at potential enemy locations/last known locations, etc. This is what would give you the plus to initiative it's talking about.

So rather than taking the time during the pause to do other things, you're on 'overwatch' - it probably would have been better called that than a 'hasty ambush' but I think that's the intention there.

EDIT; Im not sure about what I wrote above, thats more the 'keep watch' action I think. Perhaps the 'Hasty Ambush' is more of a 'move to new position, then set up' versus 'keep watch'.

[Cdnwolf]

From Arma III wiki (I edited some of it out)

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Conduct_an_Ambush#Hasty_Ambush


Hasty Ambush
1.A patrol member makes a contact report that enemy is in sight and gives direction of contact from patrol
2.The patrol freezes
3.CO decides to conduct a hasty ambush
4.CO designates the rally point for the withdrawal
5.CO designates the kill zone
6.CO designates the type of ambush
7.CO deploys the patrol to ambush lines by positions marked on map and or in reference to terrain and clutter objects
8.Patrol members deploy to covered and concealed positions on the ambush lines
9.Security elements are placed on the flanks and rear
10.The Ambush is conducted
11.CO orders cease fire
12.The search team moves into kill zone and conducts a hasty search of enemy soldiers
13.At the CO's discretion and if further immediate contact is unlikely the patrol polices up any weapons creating a weapons cache if needed
14.Security elements rejoin patrol
15.CO orders withdrawal from the ambush site to the rally point
16.CO conducts an After Action Review by number so as to disseminate any useful info
17.The patrol reorganizes as needed and continues mission

[cavtroop]

From Arma III wiki (I edited some of it out)

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Conduct_an_Ambush#Hasty_Ambush


Hasty Ambush
1.A patrol member makes a contact report that enemy is in sight and gives direction of contact from patrol
2.The patrol freezes
3.CO decides to conduct a hasty ambush
4.CO designates the rally point for the withdrawal
5.CO designates the kill zone
6.CO designates the type of ambush
7.CO deploys the patrol to ambush lines by positions marked on map and or in reference to terrain and clutter objects
8.Patrol members deploy to covered and concealed positions on the ambush lines
9.Security elements are placed on the flanks and rear
10.The Ambush is conducted
11.CO orders cease fire
12.The search team moves into kill zone and conducts a hasty search of enemy soldiers
13.At the CO's discretion and if further immediate contact is unlikely the patrol polices up any weapons creating a weapons cache if needed
14.Security elements rejoin patrol
15.CO orders withdrawal from the ambush site to the rally point
16.CO conducts an After Action Review by number so as to disseminate any useful info
17.The patrol reorganizes as needed and continues mission

We understand what a traditional 'hasty ambush' is - hell I lived training for them for 8 years. However, we're confused about the concept of them in Twilight:2013 - specifically how during a 'pause' in the fighting (a pause is a mechanical construct in the rules of 2013), how one can setup a hasty ambush after contact has already been made, but there is a lull in the fighting.

[NanbanJim]

"We" don't necessarily understand what a traditional hasty ambush is. I don't think that's quite what this is, either... but I don't see what the confusion is.

There's an extended engagement. There is a lull in the fighting--maybe both sides feel they haven't got the ammo to keep wasting it, who cares, doesn't matter why, there just is.

Instead of staying essentially in the same position to do other tasks or completely withdrawing, you redeploy to cover expected enemy positions/avenues of approach to the best of your tactical knowledge.

If the other side has someone watching you guys, then they try to figure out where you're going. Essentially if you confuse them enough to where they don't quite know where you'll be, you may be able to now get the jump on them. If you don't, that means they have observed or predicted where you are.

If nobody opens fire, then the presumption is that the other side has had time to figure out where you'll be, and you have to try that again.

Note that you can use Operation Actions in place of Tactical Actions at a penalty, so yes, this isn't a Field-Manual, doctrinally proper "Hasty Ambush" so much as it is maneuvering in combat... you can do it during the hectic part of combat and it's a lot harder, or when things have died down a bit... and it's only going to buy you a few seconds of time, max.

[Michael Lewis]

This is from the rule book.


Set Hasty Ambush
While total surprise is impossible during a pause — after
all, the enemy knows that there’s a fi ght going on — it is possible
for a character to conceal his intentions enough to throw off an
opponent’s expectations. This requires a Tactics (AWA) skill check.
With success, the character receives a bonus on his next initiative
check equal to the margin of success (minimum bonus +1), if the
current pause is immediately followed by an exchange of fi re.
If an opponent performs a Keep Watch action during the
same pause that a character performs a Set Hasty Ambush action,
the result of the opponent’s Awareness check opposes the result of
this Tactics check. If multiple opponents are Keeping Watch, the
best Awareness check result is applied.

I guess you can move too. Movement is free during a pause. You can move up to 10 times movement rate as your tactical action.

I forgot you can do both. That makes more sense.