T2K Lingua

[General Pain]

InT2K based games we (players) meet lots of npcs from various contries speaking various languages. This means GMs and players for that sake could use help in adding flavour to a campaign by using proper language.

I know people could use online translators like:
http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
http://translation2.paralink.com/

and loads others...

But the proplem with these , is that they usually translates gramatically wrong.

So what I hoped was that my fellow board members could help eachother with translation questions.

For example:

How would a russian say:

"Oh my god don't press that button"

Other use for this thread could be dialect questions and local slang.

I hope this could prove usefull. So if anyone has a sentence they would have translated into norweigian , post it here.

[pmulcahy11b]

Dale Brown's books have a lot of grammatically-correct and properly-spelled words and phrases that occur in the various parts of the world his characters are operating. And there are also quite a few cultural bits -- his books are why I learned, before I even joined the Army, why throwing your shoes at someone and calling him a dog is so insulting in the Arabic world.

Of course, that will only give you the words and phrases -- figuring out how to pronounce them is much more difficult. I was lucky to have a GM who spoke Polish as my first GM and a Croatian mother, so I can pronounce some of the thornier words -- but the place names on the maps get mangled pretty easily.

(BTW, my mother speaks five languages. She says English was the hardest language to learn!)

[weswood]

I've used an online translator for some phrases in Rae's PbP game and have ran into that problem. It just wouldn't translate "I like the way your butt wiggles when you walk" from English to Polish.

I've also ran into the pronunciation difficulties Paul was talking about. I was taking an English class at a local college and the intsrtuctor asked if anybody knew what a certain word meant. Blank looks until she wrote it one the board-omniscient. "Oh, I know what that is, I've just never heard it spoken" I paid her back though, I threw in the word laager in an assignement, she had to look it up in a dictionary.

[JimmyRay73]

I picked up some useful bits from Tom Clancy books and other "Cold War" era spy novels, and from the T2K 2nd Ed book. It also helped that i often tried to learn the important bits of any language from anyone I found who could speak it (i.e. how to order a beer, ask where the bathroom is, and insult someone badly).

Remember, it's a bad idea to say "Yob t'voyu maht!" to any Russian you don't intend to fight, but "una cerveza por favor" and "donde esta el bano" are damned useful things to know in Spanish. Just hope the guy that replies to the last one points at the door, so you don't need to know how to say "second door on the left" in Spanish...

[Marc]

I picked up some useful bits from Tom Clancy books and other "Cold War" era spy novels, and from the T2K 2nd Ed book. It also helped that i often tried to learn the important bits of any language from anyone I found who could speak it (i.e. how to order a beer, ask where the bathroom is, and insult someone badly).

Remember, it's a bad idea to say "Yob t'voyu maht!" to any Russian you don't intend to fight, but "una cerveza por favor" and "donde esta el bano" are damned useful things to know in Spanish. Just hope the guy that replies to the last one points at the door, so you don't need to know how to say "second door on the left" in Spanish...


"Segunda puerta a la izquierda":)

Yesterday night we ran a short (3hr) role playing session. The character assaulted by surprise a fortified house occupied by polish militiamen. As always I threw myself enthusiastically to interpret my poor NPCs crying for help in my particular and totally imaginary version of polish.

All the non-native English speakers have a natural ability, developed since childhood, to sing the songs in English of their favourite groups "by ear" without knowing anything about English and without any idea about the meaning of the lyrics. I have extended this ability (with my lack of sense of shame) to manage a fluid roleplaying Polish, Germany, Russian, French or whatever language needed.:cool: Of course this powerful ability is fed by Hollywood influence. For example, my Germans always say sentences that must have words like "Raus! Raus!", "Alarm" and, of course "Panzer!". Always shouting...

[headquarters]

"Segunda puerta a la izquierda":)

Yesterday night we ran a short (3hr) role playing session. The character assaulted by surprise a fortified house occupied by polish militiamen. As always I threw myself enthusiastically to interpret my poor NPCs crying for help in my particular and totally imaginary version of polish.

All the non-native English speakers have a natural ability, developed since childhood, to sing the songs in English of their favourite groups "by ear" without knowing anything about English and without any idea about the meaning of the lyrics. I have extended this ability (with my lack of sense of shame) to manage a fluid roleplaying Polish, Germany, Russian, French or whatever language needed.:cool: Of course this powerful ability is fed by Hollywood influence. For example, my Germans always say sentences that must have words like "Raus! Raus!", "Alarm" and, of course "Panzer!". Always shouting...

Slavic languages :
Russian for stop! or I will shot : "Stoj! ili ya Istrajano!"
SERB:Stani ili ya putsam!

Serb/Russian/slavic for GOD : Bog
hands up : Ruki u vies!
weapon : oruzje
west : zapad

[Marc]

Slavic languages :
Russian for stop! or I will shot : "Stoj! ili ya Istrajano!"
SERB:Stani ili ya putsam!

Serb/Russian/slavic for GOD : Bog
hands up : Ruki u vies!
weapon : oruzje
west : zapad


:) Well, I didn't know how it was written in serbo-croatian, but I only remember one complete sentence from my deployments. As you say, HQ:

NATO Stanili ili pushcam! :D (Or at least it is how I remember the way to pronounce it)

"NATO force! Stop or I will fire!"

It was in another life... Probably, now I would take a closer look to the Serbo-croatian / Spanish booklet. :o

[pmulcahy11b]

I'm sure I'm not spelling it right, but we'll probably all remember this line from Red Dawn:

Na povish! Na povish!, which they translated in Red Dawn as "My God! My God!"

Anyone know if that is an accurate translation?

[Rainbow Six]

I used to work with a Polish girl who thought it was hilarious when I pronounced "Wroclaw"....

[Marc]

I'm sure I'm not spelling it right, but we'll probably all remember this line from Red Dawn:

Na povish! Na povish!, which they translated in Red Dawn as "My God! My God!"

Anyone know if that is an accurate translation?

It was a clear sign that their communist atheism was failing before the intimidating and christianizing presence of Patrick Swaize and his Colt .45.

[Mohoender]

About that subject I'll agree with many of you (Marc among them). Keep the sentences simple, shout, and use slang when you know it (strangely that's what you know first in any language). After all the F word is used as a comma in most American college.

About the accent, the cinema will provide you with a large array of accents that are all wrong anyway.:D

About the translation asked first "Oh my god don't press that button" I would not translate it really but use something else.:D

In French: I'll say "Putain! touche pas!!" if you want to add some flavor "Putain! Touche pas connard!!" or (more complicated) "Putain! Dégage tu vas tout faire péter!" Hey people, there is very little chance that a french will refer to god and as a result that translate more as "Shit! Noooo!".;)

In Russian: I'll use "Niet, Niet, Eta nie arasho!" or (if the guy is a good comrade) "Niet, Niet, Tavarich! Eta nie arasho!". For the second russian sentence the translation will be "No! No! comrade! it's no good!".

Thanks for the other one you gave, I didn't know them.:)

I'm not really speaking Russian but I know the alphabet (that helps) and some of the basics. 1 semester of Russian taken in the US and 1 in France. I have a problem so as I often mix Russian with Portuguese. Then, I might get back to a Russian course in January and I might be of more help after that. If I go through the Russian I'll continue with Japanese but that is long term.

[Marc]

Mmmmmm... mixing Russian with Portuguese seems difficult!!!:D

I speak Catalan, English and Spanish (in this order), French language being my next target. Although a Catalan can partially understand a text written in French, the pronunciation of your language seems to me an important challenge! I've been working in Italy for a while and I understand the Italian pretty well. There's a lot of similarities between the Spanish, Italian and Catalan, and a lot of common words (the same happens with the Portuguese). It's usual that a word that has become an archaism in one language is an usual word in the other.

[Mohoender]

Mmmmmm... mixing Russian with Portuguese seems difficult!!!:D



Actually not that much. My mother is fluent in Portuguese and her ex-boyfriend was portuguese. When they crossed the path of some Russians speaking in the street they couldn't tell if these people were speaking Russian or Portuguese. Obviously, the Russians were equally puzzled.:)

Both languages are entirely different but, strangely, they sound in a similar manner.

For the french pronunciation that is quite easy in fact, speak as flat as possible with little if any intonation. I would say that the french language is one of the language using the less possible sounds. From what I know the number of sounds in french is ridiculously low (as I think it is the case for english) and that explains why the french are that bad at learning foreign language. At the opposite end you'll find languages like Portuguese, Russian, Arab... That's also why an Arab (saudi) can learn a foreign language simply by listening to it and, believe me, it is very impressive when a guy is suddenly starting to speak politics or phylosophy in your own language when he has simply been listening to you for about 2 months (not even full time).

[Mohoender]

Some french expressions that may be useful to T2K (France and a good part of Africa)

A couvert: take cover.
A droite: to the right.
A gauche: to the left.
A terre: get down.
Attention: pay attention.
Bougez vous les gars: move it boys.
Dégage connard: get off, jerk.
En avant les gars: move forward boys.
Feu: shoot.
Halte au feu: hold your fire.
Halte où je tire: stop or I’ll shoot.
Je me rends: I surrender.
La cible est sur la côte 22 or La Cible est aux coordonnées… : target is on coordinnate…
Main en l’air : hands up.
Mercy: thanks.
Montez, vite : get on, quick.
Ne tirez pas: hold your fire.
Putain, touche pas: shit, nooo or don’t touch (as you like).
Rendez vous: surrender.
S’il vous plait : please.
Stop: freeze.
Touche pas connard: don’t touch that, you asshole.

Another point as most of us have been in the army, we must all know (from very long term memory in my case) several hand signs that are common to many armies I think and in the field that is useful for the basics. If you understand what I mean, I’ll be happy if someone can refresh my memory about them. I'll also be happy to see some basics from the languages you know.:)

[Jason Weiser]

It was a clear sign that their communist atheism was failing before the intimidating and christianizing presence of Patrick Swaize and his Colt .45.

Well...it's spellled...

О Мой Бог

[Jason Weiser]

About that subject I'll agree with many of you (Marc among them). Keep the sentences simple, shout, and use slang when you know it (strangely that's what you know first in any language). After all the F word is used as a comma in most American college.


Dude, just commas? I've heard it used as a noun, pronoun, and a host of other uses..

Then again, I have been assured that in conversation, Eastern Europeans can be just as bad.

[General Pain]

...of a former T2K-er called "sondre" or "Steinkopf" he could order beer and swear in 14 languages....

God Rest your soul Sondre.
You are still missed.

[Targan]

Then again, I have been assured that in conversation, Eastern Europeans can be just as bad.
I'm f***ing surprised you didn't mention Australians in this discussion.

[Earthpig]

I'm afraid I often slip into Swedish Chef mode and make mock language :)

[Jason Weiser]

I'm f***ing surprised you didn't mention Australians in this discussion.

Now, now Targan, we know the Australians have extended the F-Bomb gap with the rest of the world...ok, perhaps not certain segments of the US military...but gee, do you have to flaunt it?

[pmulcahy11b]

I had a girlfriend in college as well as two friends who were fluent in Spanish. They spoke Spanish around me all the time, knowing it drove me nuts. Then one of the friends told me they were usually just talking about how nuts they must be making me...

There's a good multi-purpose saying in Korean (probably not spelled right): Kamsa Hamnida. Could mean thank you, I'm sorry, shit happens, too bad, life sucks -- it just depends on the context.

[B.T.]

Or: "Listen, Gentlemen":D
I try to take Mo's list and add a German Phrase, that comes close or some kind of translation:


1) A couvert: take cover. - "Geh(t) in Deckung!"; MilSpeac: "Stellung!!"
2) A droite: to the right. - "Nach rechts." oder "Auf der rechten Seite."
3) A gauche: to the left. - "Nach links." oder "Auf der linken Seite."
4) A terre: get down. - Hm, in MilSpeak that would be the same as No. 1). More freely translated it would be something like: "Runter auf den Boden!"
5) Attention: pay attention. - "Aufgepasst!"; MilSpeak: "Achtung."
6) Bougez vous les gars: move it boys. - "Bewegung, Jungs." or: "Bewegt euch, Jungs."
7) Dégage connard: get off, jerk. - "Verpiss dich, du Penner!" It's the same as: Piss off.
8) En avant les gars: move forward boys. - "Geht nach vorne" would be the translation of the English words, but I'm not certain, if this is what Mo meant
9) Feu: shoot. - "Feuer!!!"
10) Halte au feu: hold your fire. - MilSpeak: "Stopfen" as short form, or: "Feuer einstellen!"
11) Halte où je tire: stop or I’ll shoot. - "Stehenbleiben, oder ich schieße!"
12) Je me rends: I surrender. - "Ich ergebe mich!"
13) La cible est sur la côte 22 or La Cible est aux coordonnées… : target is on coordinnate… - "Zielkoordinaten:..." Well, the things that would follow are quite cryptical to me.
14) Main en l’air : hands up. - "Hände hoch!"
15) Mercy: thanks. - "Danke." or, more polite: "Danke schön."
16) Montez, vite : get on, quick. - "Los, schnell!" ("Schnell machen/Make snell" is something I've heard in some old English movie, but that would not be used by a German! Although: If a American soldier would use these words towards a German, he would understand.)
17) Ne tirez pas: hold your fire. - Same as 10)
18) Putain, touche pas: shit, nooo or don’t touch (as you like). - "Scheiße, nein!!" or "Nicht anfassen!" or "Pfoten weg!" The last would be translated as : Put your hands away from that object, but in a more familiar or colloquial manner.
19) Rendez vous: surrender. "Ergebt euch." to a group, or: "Ergib dich!" to a single person.
20) S’il vous plait : please. - "Bitte."
21) Stop: freeze. - "Stop!" or "Stehenbleiben!"
22) Touche pas connard: don’t touch that, you asshole. - "Fass das nicht an, (du) Arschloch!"

A word on "Achtung": It has several meanings. It can be used like in:"Beware. That twig might slam into your face." On the other hand it is used as a kind of military command word: If a higher ranking NCO or officer enters a room, someone calls out: "Achtung!". Everybody stands straight, facing the officer.

English curse words are quite common amongst Germans: "Shit!" or "Fuck" in special.

[Rainbow Six]

My (now former) Polish colleague used to use the word "dobre" the way we would say "OK"...she doesn't work here any more but half the office still say things are "dobre". (Not sure if that's the right way to spell it...might be dobriy...)

[B.T.]

I worked together with several born Polish workmates once. "Guten Tag" or "Hello" is something like "chin dobre". Certainly not spelled correct, but it sounds like that.

[Rainbow Six]

I worked together with several born Polish workmates once. "Guten Tag" or "Hello" is something like "chin dobre". Certainly not spelled correct, but it sounds like that.

Yep, that's it. although haven't a clue how you spell it. I think in Czech it's similar but the other way around, i.e. dobre den.

Poles also say "chest" (that is definitely not how you spell it!) which is more informal, like "Hi"

I think dobre equates to "good", so "chin dobre" is "good day". The way the Poles use dobre on its own is probably similar to "alles gut" in German or "c'est bon" in French. I think!

[headquarters]

Yep, that's it. although haven't a clue how you spell it. I think in Czech it's similar but the other way around, i.e. dobre den.

Poles also say "chest" (that is definitely not how you spell it!) which is more informal, like "Hi"

I think dobre equates to "good", so "chin dobre" is "good day". The way the Poles use dobre on its own is probably similar to "alles gut" in German or "c'est bon" in French. I think!

You thinks right rainbow

Djin Dobre literally means day-good or Good Day in English .And G`Day in the other English ;) .The word for day is more varied like Djien in Polish,dan in Serb etc .

Dobre ,Dobro,Dobra etc all have different meaning in the context and the languages used ,but pretty much it means "good " in all slavic languages ,Russian ,Srepski-Hvratski-Bosniacki ,Chzech,Polish etc .
It can also mean "beautiful" -like the Serb sentence "ti si dobre" -you are beautiful ,a useful closing argument :D

many Slavic languages use the word BOG for God .

Also I have found out that the word Trava means grass in many languages.If you play soccer you will appreciate the need for good grass to get a game going.

Voda pretty much means water all over and Pivo beer.
Nastravije -usually cheers but literally "health" - as in to your health .

So there you have it - now you can ask for a good spot to play soccer,order a beer,propose a toast ,smooth talk the ladies and thank God for your successes later.

:D

[pmulcahy11b]

Poles also say "chest" (that is definitely not how you spell it!) which is more informal, like "Hi"

Kind of like the German, "Tchuss!"?

I used to like to confuse my troops when marching them by sounding off "Links, Recht, Links, Recht!" or giving the command, "Achtung!"

[Rainbow Six]

So there you have it - now you can ask for a good spot to play soccer,order a beer,propose a toast ,smooth talk the ladies and thank God for your successes later.

:D

Dziekuje, HQ.

Kind of like the German, "Tchuss!"?

Yep, exactly the same...

Re: Polish, a bit of googling came up with this...it's obviously meant for tourists, but some phrases might be useful in a T2K context...

http://www.zem.co.uk/polish/basicvoc.htm

[pmulcahy11b]

http://www.zem.co.uk/polish/basicvoc.htm

Do you know how many Firefox bookmarks I'm building up?;)

My first T2K GM had a Polish wife, so he knew how to pronounce all the Polish names plus some basic Polish. You miss things like that.

[unkated]

I am resurrecting this thread as it fits what I have to add.

I am reading Michener's Poland. In one chapter (Mazurka), set in the late 19th century (1897-8), an American (from Chicago) is marrying a Pole, falls in love with Poland and is trying to learn the language. i thought her notes may be instructive:

ALWAYS REMEMBER
POLISH IS EASY

A is pronounced EYE (sometimes)
C is pronounced TZ, TS
Ę is ppronounced EN
J is pronounced Y
Ł is pronounced W
W is pronounced V
Final T is pronounced TH

BRZ is pronounce BZHE
ICZ is pronounced EETCH
RZE is pronounced ZHE
SZCZ is pronounced SHTCH
STRZY is prounced STCHI

Łodz = Woodge
Rzeszow = Zheshoov
Szczorz = Shtchoozh
Pszczyna = Pshtchina
Szczebrzesyn = Shtchebzhehshin
Łancut = Wine-tsooth

After a discussion about how to pronounce Lancut, the girl says "I'm so glad you've proved you love me, Wiktor. Because otherwise I'd think you were trying to drive me crazy."

Przemysl = P'shemish'l (with the P & L either half mumbled or skipped altogther); the Polish lad says the Polish locals get a kick out of the German-speaking Austrian Officers trying to pronounce it.

Przemysl is a large fortress town up the San River from Sandomierz near the (WW1) Russian border. It was the scene of three sieges in WW1.



Other minor things:

Honorifics (equivalent of Mister and Ma'am)
Pan
Pani

Women have an a or wa at the end of their name rather than an 'i'

Pan Bukowski
Pani Bukowska


Hope this gives games set in Poland an ounce more flavor.

Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

If you have any questions about words in Dutch get a hold of LordRoel -he can give you anything you need to add flavor to a campaign in the Netherlands or in the Caribbean in the Netherlands Antilles