OT (somewhat): Petition to secede Alaska to Russia

[Schone23666]

Just read about this, this morning:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/25/alaska-petition-secede-russia-going-strong-18k-sig/

Last I read elsewhere, it's now got over 30,000 signatures, It probably got started by one of Pooty's "admirers" here in the U.S. (yes, they exist). Of course, this is as likely happening as us just allowing Texas to secede as well.

Nothing like a Russian despot with a twisted sense of humor, I suppose. :rolleyes:

[Matt Wiser]

Saw it on Yahoo news. The Originator of the petition doesn't seem to have English as his first language. My guess is that it's a Russian speaker, and the origin of the petition was probably in Russia. Remember, Zhirinovsky wants Alaska returned (still).

[Schone23666]

Saw it on Yahoo news. The Originator of the petition doesn't seem to have English as his first language. My guess is that it's a Russian speaker, and the origin of the petition was probably in Russia. Remember, Zhirinovsky wants Alaska returned (still).

That makes me wanting to have Russia be stupid enough to actually try and make a land grab for Alaska, just for the humor of it all...

Yeah, the originator is likely Russian, but you wouldn't freaking believe some of the idiocy you see on the internet these days. There are Americans out there actually saying they trust/respect Putin more than Obama, ugh.

Most likely though, Ivan's next stop is either gonna be somewhere in Moldova, Romania, Poland, or the Baltics. Russia's Lebensraum Tour, 2014!

(And yes, the irony of using those two words together, "Russia" and "Lebensraum" is indeed intentional.)

[Cdnwolf]

Well..... Canada will take Alaska off your hands... makes the map so much better looking. We will give you Greenland instead.

My WWIII scenario had Poland making a grab for part of the Ukraine too (ancient bad blood between the two) and Moldavia fighting with Romania.

Of course mention Crimea and all I can think of is the Cross of Iron book by Willi Heinrich.


http://www.amazon.com/The-Cross-Iron-Willi-Heinrich/dp/0553147870

[Cdnwolf]

One of the side articles in the same paper caught my attention.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/25/obama-kill-navys-tomahawk-hellfire-missile-program/

[stormlion1]

Greenland isn't Canada's to give. As for Alaska, well the US paid for it fair and square and unless they want to pony up the new asking price there SOL. The scary part would be if the Russians used the petition as a attempt to annex Alaska by international courts.

[stg58fal]

There are Americans out there actually saying they trust/respect Putin more than Obama,

I take it you don't.

[pmulcahy11b]

We don't do secession here. Once you're in, you're in. For those who don't know, that's the original reason we fought the Civil War.

[Schone23666]

I can't help but be amused by the fact that only a few months ago, Maduro of Venezuela and Kirchner of Argentina decided to take up Fidel Castro's "cause" of calling for Puerto Rico's "independence" from the U.S.

Yes, I know Puerto Rico is a self-governing Commonwealth of the U.S., but they voted in the last referendum (2012) to become a state of the U.S. When that will eventually happen of course, is another matter. When Maduro and Kirchner called for Puerto Rico to be independent of the "U.S. Imperialists" and join CELAC, the Puerto Ricans overall reaction ranged from "Who cares, whatever" to "Piss off, pendejos".

[stormlion1]

From what I gather from a few of the guys I work with who come from Puerto Rico, its the older generation pushing for statehood. The younger generation doesn't care either way or does want independence.

[Sanjuro]

Oddly enough, "Piss off" was largely the reaction of the Falkland Islanders when she tried to "liberate" them...

[Cdnwolf]

Greenland isn't Canada's to give.

:baddevil: And neither was Crimea for Russia to take.... Maaaauuuuuuhhhhh

[stormlion1]

:baddevil: And neither was Crimea for Russia to take.... Maaaauuuuuuhhhhh

True, but they at least gave a reason "Ethnic Russians" and all that. What's Canada's excuse?

[Schone23666]

True, but they at least gave a reason "Ethnic Russians" and all that. What's Canada's excuse?

The Canucks need a bigger hockey rink?

[Bullet Magnet]

We don't do secession here. Once you're in, you're in.

Just like the Mafia....
But of course, there is no Mafia! ;) So I guess it's like fiction.

[stormlion1]

The only Secession we might ever see in the US is the actual splitting up of an existing state into two or more states. Can South Jersey secede from North Jersey please?

[Webstral]

I've seen proposals to split California into as many as five states. To be honest, I think more is better. California is like a country pretending to be a single state. Conservative areas are underrepresented at the state capitol. For sheer numbers, the liberals are underrepresented in the US Senate, while the conservatives effectively get no representation at all. Splitting California into 5 states ranging in population from 1.5 million to 15 million would change the balance of power at several levels but allow for more honest representation.

[Targan]

I've seen proposals to split California into as many as five states.

This is the latest proposal I've read about: Plan to split California into six states closer to vote (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/02/21/california-six-states-plan-tim-draper/5673283/)

[headquarters]

Greenland is Danish :)

This could lead to the first Canadian-Danish war - and a break up of Nato. In the turmoil Putin wil lstep in and draw in the misfortunates who are left without allies into his ever widening net of client states....

joking of course

Well..... Canada will take Alaska off your hands... makes the map so much better looking. We will give you Greenland instead.

My WWIII scenario had Poland making a grab for part of the Ukraine too (ancient bad blood between the two) and Moldavia fighting with Romania.

Of course mention Crimea and all I can think of is the Cross of Iron book by Willi Heinrich.


http://www.amazon.com/The-Cross-Iron-Willi-Heinrich/dp/0553147870

[stg58fal]

The only Secession we might ever see in the US is the actual splitting up of an existing state into two or more states. Can South Jersey secede from North Jersey please?

Or a state saying to hell with it because the fed.gov violated the contract under which said state joined the union. As was nearly the case a few years ago, when the .gov was trying to argue before the Supreme Kourt that the 2nd Amendment wasn't an individual right, and Montana told them that it being an individual right was part of the contract under which they became a state, IIRC its in the MT constitution, and if the Kourt 'found' otherwise, it was a violation and made the contract null and void, and we'll be leaving, thank you very much. A bunch of other states said "Me too!" so the Kourt actually 'found' the way they should have without there even being a hearing.

For sheer numbers, the liberals are underrepresented in the US Senate,

Excuse me? Everyone gets two Senators, and pretty much anyone who goes to the District of Corruption from CA is liberal. How can they be UNDERrepresented? By looking at how the people of the PRK vote, on the county maps of the last few elections, they are probably OVERrepresented in that they control everything about that state. A couple of counties ruin the entire rest of the state and send clowns to CONgress that do even more damage.

I do like the idea of making the PRK two states. If we turn the Dakotas into one state, or just give NoDak to Canada, we won't even need to change the flag. :D

[pmulcahy11b]

Excuse me? Everyone gets two Senators, and pretty much anyone who goes to the District of Corruption from CA is liberal.

It doesn't matter; all our lawmakers are bought and paid for by big business. The real measure is how corrupt they are, not how liberal or conservative they are.

[pmulcahy11b]

This is the latest proposal I've read about: Plan to split California into six states closer to vote (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/02/21/california-six-states-plan-tim-draper/5673283/)

Texas had the option when they joined the Union to come in in one piece or as up to five states. It's still allowed by the Texas Constitution -- though you'd need an OK now from the US Congress and Senate.

[stg58fal]

It doesn't matter; all our lawmakers are bought and paid for

I have a hard time recalling any time I've read truer words.

[stormlion1]

It doesn't matter; all our lawmakers are bought and paid for by big business. The real measure is how corrupt they are, not how liberal or conservative they are.

Paid for by Big Business or whichever Lobbyist gets there attention with the most 'gifts' for there campaigns.

[Webstral]

Excuse me? Everyone gets two Senators, and pretty much anyone who goes to the District of Corruption from CA is liberal. How can they be UNDERrepresented? By looking at how the people of the PRK vote, on the county maps of the last few elections, they are probably OVERrepresented in that they control everything about that state. A couple of counties ruin the entire rest of the state and send clowns to CONgress that do even more damage.

I'm going to ask you to look beyond your obvious disgust with liberals and use the brain power you've committed to other issues to see the mechanics at work. You're confusing federal and state representation. I ask your indulgence while I address the math, not the emotion of politics.

As you know, each state gets two Senators regardless of population. This means that in the Senate approximately 300,000 voters from Wyoming or Vermont have the same political power as about 12.5 million Texans or 18.5 million Californians. This makes everybody in those big state underrepresented. The Founding Fathers intended this so that big states would not run roughshod over the little ones. However, when the Founding Fathers created the bicameral system, the most populous state was about 12 times as populous as the least populous state. Now the most populous state is more than 50 times as populous as the least populous state. We've reached a point at which the small states wield a grossly disproportionate amount of power through the Senate.

Here's another idea to consider: the current arrangement cheats millions of conservative Californians out of representation in the Senate. There are more conservative voters in California than there are voters in Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, and Idaho. The conservative voters in these states have 10 senators to represent them. The conservative voters in California--again, numbering more than the voters in 5 states I named--get 0 senators to represent them. One philosophy says, "Oh well, they're living in the wrong place, I guess." Another philosophy says that lack of representation for millions of voters has to be addressed with decisive action. In this case, I think decisive action is called for.

[kato13]

This thread has run its course and is now closed.

[Webstral]

This is the latest proposal I've read about: Plan to split California into six states closer to vote (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/02/21/california-six-states-plan-tim-draper/5673283/)

Interesting! Six states is more than I've seen. Personally, I think North California is a poorly designed state. Santa Rosa and Napa belong with Silicon Valley, while Sacramento and the other counties of the proposed North California belong with Central Valley.