[OT] Thinking about Ukraine has changed

[Adm.Lee]

About a month ago, I posted here (and elsewhere) that I thought, during the Crimea takeover, that the Ukrainian military, small and under-equipped as it was, was showing remarkable discipline in non-violently not surrendering for the Russians. They stayed in barracks or on ships, did not surrender their ships/weapons (for a long while, at least), and no hothead lieutenant, drunk sergeant, or clueless private mouthed off or slugged one of the mystery gunmen or started shooting when weapons were drawn.

This week, I am reading that a column of armored vehicles drove up to the pro-separatist folks and were disarmed without much fuss, after a few days of threats by the government. When those threats weren't carried out rapidly, I wondered about slow-rolling by the officers on the spot. Now, I am wondering about collusion and conspiracy. Anyone else want to join me on this train trip to Paranoia?

[pmulcahy11b]

My mother, who is a concentration vet, says when she hears Putin talk or about his activities, it reminds her of Hitler.

[Targan]

My mother, who is a concentration vet, says when she hears Putin talk or about his activities, it reminds her of Hitler.

After the things you've related her saying and doing, I have nothing but the utmost respect for your mother, Paul.

[Schone23666]

Well, to add to that, this story popped up:

http://news.yahoo.com/someones-handing-leaflets-eastern-ukraine-telling-jews-register-173828220.html;_ylt=AwrBJSCRCVFT2SYAP.HQtDMD

Basically, someone's circulating pamphlets instructing Jews in the eastern Ukraine to register themselves or face deportation. Not sure what to make of this story, in situations like this where things start getting confused. But the implications are a bit chilling.

[kato13]

Well, to add to that, this story popped up:

http://news.yahoo.com/someones-handing-leaflets-eastern-ukraine-telling-jews-register-173828220.html;_ylt=AwrBJSCRCVFT2SYAP.HQtDMD

Basically, someone's circulating pamphlets instructing Jews in the eastern Ukraine to register themselves or face deportation. Not sure what to make of this story, in situations like this where things start getting confused. But the implications are a bit chilling.

I think this is counter propaganda.

I have a friend whose step mom is a semi recent Russian/Ukrainian immigrant. She and her friends back home are supportive of the Russian side and a few weeks ago they were spreading stories of Ukrainian Nationalist Fascists marking the homes of Jews in order to make the Ukrainian side look bad.

It would make sense to me if the Ukrainian supporters in the eastern portion decided to do something similar, to counter what the Russians were doing.

[stormlion1]

I'm not sure the story is true. It could be something faked by someone with a sick mind. I sure hope its fake anyway. Nobody could be that dumb to go through that again.

[Rainbow Six]

I think this is counter propaganda.

I agree

[Schone23666]

The leaflets may in fact be phony or some part of some counter-propaganda campaign, but whatever the intent, whoever is distributing this shit needs to be beaten with sticks and have his/her head shaved. I fail to find any humor in it.

However, I would NOT want to be a homosexual in Putin's Russia. It seems Pooty's been cracking down hard on gays and lesbians, calling them a "Western disease" or some such BS. Incidentally, that's another group that was persecuted by the Nazis (among a bunch of others).

And on another note, it seems there's more unrest around the city of Odessa now, if what I'm hearing is accurate. Along with supposed reports of a big increase activity at Russian bases in Moldova, possibly aimed at the southern Ukraine, make of that what you will.

[Rainbow Six]

The leaflets may in fact be phony or some part of some counter-propaganda campaign, but whatever the intent, whoever is distributing this shit needs to be beaten with sticks and have his/her head shaved. I fail to find any humor in it.

I don't think anyone would find any humour in it, and yes, whoever is behind it is obviously a fairly reprehensible piece of work. However at the moment each side appears to be saying that the other is responsible for it.

[kato13]

In some ways this shows that in the case of getting world opinion on your side, both sides realize you better not hurt the Jews. That could be interpreted as good news in a twisted way.

However if one side actually commits an atrocity trying to blame the other side, this gets scary really fast . (and leads to yet another Hitler parallel aka Reichstag fire)

[mikeo80]

Mean while, Mr. Putin just sits at his desk and plans where he can strike next. IMHO, there is not a whole lot that the West can do about it either.

My $0.02

Mike

[Adm.Lee]

And now, I am thinking of the metaphor of the frog in the water-filled pot, who supposedly won't jump out if the water is heated slowly.

Russia tightens the screws just a little bit each time, nothing so big that it will trigger a reaction in itself, just a little nibble here and there.

[Schone23666]

And now, I am thinking of the metaphor of the frog in the water-filled pot, who supposedly won't jump out if the water is heated slowly.

Russia tightens the screws just a little bit each time, nothing so big that it will trigger a reaction in itself, just a little nibble here and there.

"I just want PEACE! Peace! A...little piece of Poland, a little piece of France..."

On a more serious note, this report popped up:

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/report-us-ground-troops-to-be-sent-to-poland-estonia-1.278897

Basically, according the Poles, the U.S. is sending troops to Poland and Estonia. A small contingent for the moment, but supposedly it's to open a door for future deployments.

[rcaf_777]

Canada is sending a six pack of F-18

[.45cultist]

The leaflets may in fact be phony or some part of some counter-propaganda campaign, but whatever the intent, whoever is distributing this shit needs to be beaten with sticks and have his/her head shaved. I fail to find any humor in it.

However, I would NOT want to be a homosexual in Putin's Russia. It seems Pooty's been cracking down hard on gays and lesbians, calling them a "Western disease" or some such BS. Incidentally, that's another group that was persecuted by the Nazis (among a bunch of others).

And on another note, it seems there's more unrest around the city of Odessa now, if what I'm hearing is accurate. Along with supposed reports of a big increase activity at Russian bases in Moldova, possibly aimed at the southern Ukraine, make of that what you will.

The "Western disease" part is classic soviet thinking. There is a point where far left and far right blur and it's not good.
There was an old joke that in Hell, Hitler is up to his neck in the boiling hot blood of his victims. Looking around, he sees Stalin up to his waist in boiling blood. "But you killed three times the people I did ! Stalin smiled, "I'm standing on Lenin's shoulders."

[Schone23666]

Well, according to new reports, the Poles, Hungarians and Romanians are claiming that the Russians recently approached them about a deal where they would each get a portion of the Ukraine.

Putin has supposedly ceased all high-level communications between American and Russian officials.

And Russian aircraft have been reported making multiple breaches into Ukrainian airspace. This in addition to the usual shooting incidents taking place between the Ukrainians and "pro-Russian separatists".

Why do I find all this just a tad worrisome??

[Raellus]

Well, according to new reports, the Poles, Hungarians and Romanians are claiming that the Russians recently approached them about a deal where they would each get a portion of the Ukraine.

Source? Link? It's not that I doubt you; I'd just like to read up on this.

And the U.S. sent some Airborne troops to Latvia to conduct joint training operations. Hm.

[Schone23666]

Source? Link? It's not that I doubt you; I'd just like to read up on this.

And the U.S. sent some Airborne troops to Latvia to conduct joint training operations. Hm.

Gah, sorry forgot to post the link. Mind you this snippet is from Daily Beast, make of it what you will. Full article can be read at Washington Post.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/04/24/poland-russia-offered-to-divide-ukraine.html

For what it's worth, assuming it's true, the Romanians, Poles and Hungarians told the Russians to piss off.

I didn't know we'd sent Airborne to Latvia as well. 101st? 82nd or a mix of both? Seems somebody's worried.

[Raellus]

Check this out.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-troops-land-latvia-amid-ukraine-crisis-135554490.html

[Schone23666]

I noticed in the picture, all these guys are wearing shades. Are they just trying to look cool for the press pool, or...?

[pmulcahy11b]

The 101st is no longer airborne (except for their LRSU unit, which my nephew was in as his first assignment in the Army), so they must have 82nd or 173rd (which my nephew is in now -- he may have been in that crowd you saw on the news).

I'm impressed by my nephew James. He went from punk kid to Ranger/Airborne/Air Assault/Combat Lifesaver (which is a lot harder than when I did it). He finally found his calling.

[stormlion1]

At best Ukraine is about to lose half its size, at best there will be no Ukraine in a few months to a year. Internationally I am intrigued how will this play out and within Ukraine will there be resistance after the country falls.