XR-311 ....... 3-2-1 Discuss.

[ArmySGT.]

Ok here IT is the Projects jeep added to 3rd edition pre-HMMWV.

Pro and Cons in Morrow Project play? Team use or abandoned? What did you add to it? Drop it and replace with the HMMWV?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/1971_fmc_xr311_rendering.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/1971_fmc_xr311_front_three_quarter.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/backward_glances-1971_fmc_xr311_dash.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/xr311e011.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/xr311_50.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/xr311_Roket.jpg

[ArmySGT.]

I always thought the XR-311 was absolutely the wrong vehicle for Operation Damocles........ Including the special rules for PCs to get out and move so they don't become hypothermic or suffer frost bite.

In warmer southern climates, yes. The XR-311 lacks armor, though it can support Team members with crew served weapons. Makes an excellent radio relay station. Damn if I wasn't surprised that the Army radio was INSTALLED into the DASH........ crap, how simple and smart was that?

I think I will keep it in my games (should I get to run some F2F) and make the HMMWV available as an option for later cached teams.

[kato13]

For my newer project HMMWV A3 series all the way.

I am currently looking for the weights of HMMWV standard accessories (like seats, doors, etc) to allow a team to build up their vehicles based on local conditions.

This will be an vehicle extension of my equip a character "shopping cart" type system. I have been working on it on an off for a long time but I may finally have some time to work on it soon.

[ArmySGT.]

I am currently looking for the weights of HMMWV standard accessories (like seats, doors, etc) to allow a team to build up their vehicles based on local conditions.

Probably in the -20 or -30 maintenance manuals. That is where I would look first. This and the BII.

[stormlion1]

It probably fulfills the quota of "bought on the Surplus Market" the Project had. Would have been better to just get a ton of old Willy Jeeps and use those instead.

[rcaf_777]

How about the Lamborghini LM002 which was developed from the Lamborghini Cheetah which almost a copy of the XR-311 made by FMC

Make sense civilian SUV made till 1993, given the status of the COT it would drawn to much attention if they bought some

It has doors, an armour kit and a weapons mounting kit

[mikeo80]

Wrong vehicle for Damocles!!!! Wrong Vehicle for pretty much anything. Too small, can not carry a full Vehicle load of goodies.

Does a Jeep type vehicle have a place in TMP? Maybe.... With EXTREME care this thing is good for a quick recon run or a radio relay. Not much else.

My $0.02

Mike

[kato13]

I have lots of M151 surplus in my regional depots and larger nesting caches, but IIRC only 12 assigned to a region's teams.

They are supplemental to the heavy trucks for some of my heavy logistics teams.

Long term I can see the them being quite useful for short range missions in secure areas.

I don't use fusion, but if I did I would just switch them to a multi-fuel engine as a fusion plant in a 300 dollars vehicle (I remember seeing 6 being sold for $1800 in 1988) seems like overkill.

[nuke11]

The XR311 is interesting, but really a dead end. It did lead to the HMMWV after a few more attempts.

For the game I'm not sure about it. It adds more spare parts to support and house and doesn't really offer that much, but for the early 1980's there isn't much out there.

[bobcat]

ever since i first saw it i always thought it looked like the love child of a Chenowth and a HMMWV.

granted actually knowing that it was an early prototype that later developed into the HMMWV doesn't change my mind on it looking like such

[Rockwolf66]

Well it's smaller than a HMMWV and it looks like it's a more capable vehicle than the Desert Patrol Vehicle.

I don't know about you but for some things the HMMWV is huge and lets face it the DPV is not that great. I've been in a DPV and it did not strike me as that Impressive.

the XM-311 just looks a lot more capable than a DPV while remaining in a similar size envelope.

[stormlion1]

It comes down to what area it would be deployed in and time frame. In the five years after a nuclear attack I could see these being useful but one hundred fifty years after a nuclear strike they would most definatly be a sub par vehicle for use. Only real part I could see them useful in is the American South West where weather wouldn't be that big of an issue.

[ArmySGT.]

Wrong vehicle for Damocles!!!! Wrong Vehicle for pretty much anything. Too small, can not carry a full Vehicle load of goodies.

Does a Jeep type vehicle have a place in TMP? Maybe.... With EXTREME care this thing is good for a quick recon run or a radio relay. Not much else.

My $0.02

Mike

I think giving the Team (aka Players) an open topped jeep keeps them honest and forces them out to do stuff instead of hiding inside the can (V-150).

1/4 ton payload is 500lbs. That and it can tow a trailer. Trailer adds another 3/4 ton or 1500lbs.

It is good for some recon........ They have to get out on foot and actually go to something and look at it.

Not great if one is getting shot at all the time.

[ArmySGT.]

Well it's smaller than a HMMWV and it looks like it's a more capable vehicle than the Desert Patrol Vehicle.

I don't know about you but for some things the HMMWV is huge and lets face it the DPV is not that great. I've been in a DPV and it did not strike me as that Impressive.

the XM-311 just looks a lot more capable than a DPV while remaining in a similar size envelope.

There is a FAV on display at Ft. Lewis (or there was) in the museum on North Fort. Someone stole the engine from it for their own buggy project. It is really small and the crew could only take a ruck and a sleeping bag after everything else was loaded.

[Rockwolf66]

There is a FAV on display at Ft. Lewis (or there was) in the museum on North Fort. Someone stole the engine from it for their own buggy project. It is really small and the crew could only take a ruck and a sleeping bag after everything else was loaded.

Way back in August 1999, I got to examine a DPV that belonged to a Force Recon unit. At the time I was only 140 pounds and I found it rather small. the top gunners seat felt like the afterthought that it was.

[bobcat]

i tend to prefer lighter vehicles with higher mobility. the smaller load keeps people from trying to bring everything that isn't welded in place with them on a mission. thus helping make sure they don't antagonize the people they are there to help.

now the open air design is problematic but one would think the project would have the foresight to include a winterization kit for cold climates. failing that one can easily be improvised by cannibalizing a tent, one of the sleep chambers*, and judicious use of duct tape. it would be much less than ideal in an NBC environment but that really is the only thing that would be problematic for use by the project. of course most of the people i play with have enjoyed strange military careers so we tend to gravitate toward unique feildmods to vehicles and equipment to resolve any faults.

*(i tend to assume a lexan sheet rather than glass on the stereotypical viewing panel)

[stormlion1]

That's a good question, before getting put into there tubes did the teams have an opportunity to modify there equipment? Or are the vehicles stock? I could see this being more useful if there was an opportunity to add some storage bins to the side, armored doors and cab, better seats and dash, and perhaps extending the back a bit for more storage. As a stock vehicle it is sub par, but customized a bit the vehicle could have potential.

[Rockwolf66]

Well the XM-311 did have an "armor kit" that enclosed the whole crew compartment. So the problem you then have is keeping the crew compartment heated.

[Rockwolf66]

Adendum

according to the Wikipedia page it did have "environmental kits"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMC_XR311

[Project_Sardonicus]

Adendum

according to the Wikipedia page it did have "environmental kits"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMC_XR311

I love that 6 barreled recoilless rifle, certainly an armoured version is an interesting proposition for a scout/technical vehicle. Where as the humvee in this role has tended to be slow, vulnerable and generally not good.

The XR311 seems far more likely to be able to drive out of trouble and then strike back.

[welsh]

I remember reading someplace where this special forces dune buggy type vehicle that was meant for fast moving light recon had a bad habit of getting stuck in the sand. Apparently, it was great on hard sand but with a full load of gear, it just get getting stuck when it went off-road.

Which kind of raises a problem. Why not go with a more simple off-road vehicle that was mass produced 4 wheel drive with decent carriage capacity?

[.45cultist]

The 4TH Ed. adds the HumVee, so I use this for rapid response, some courier duties. It also had the Silverado stats, and I've put these in Morrow Industries facilities at times.

[ArmySGT.]

XR-311 (3rd edition)
Crew 2
Length 4.343M
Width 1.93M
Height 1.6M
Ground Clearance .335M
Turning Radius 6.51M
Max. Road Speed 129Kmph
Fording Depth .75M
Gradient 60%
Vertical Obstacle .2M
Trench .25M
Armor Class 35
Armament x1 M2HB .50 BMG
Ammuntion x5 belts. (105 rounds per belt)

XR-311 (4th Edition)
Crew 2
Length 4.343M
Width 1.93M
Height 1.6M
Max. Road Speed 129Kmph
Fording Depth .75M
Gradient 60%
Vertical Obstacle .2M
Trench .25M
Ground Clearance .335M
Turning Radius 6.51M
Armor Value 35
MP Deployment 1976
Payload 680kg (payload) An electrical winch with a capacity of 5000kg can be mounted at the front of the vehicle.
Mass (32) page 82, 2177kg (incl. fuel), 98 liters (fuel)
Stats
SP
STR
DEX
PACE (Page 37, page 175)
INT

Armament x1 M2HB .50 BMG
Ammuntion x5 belts. (105 rounds per belt)

Pending an answer on the MP facebook page for the missing formulas.

[nuke11]

I think I know what you are asking for. The mass table starting on page 81 is used to calculate the "MASS" of the vehicle and then you jump down to page 175 to finish the rest of the information required.

[ArmySGT.]

Thanks!

The vehicles portion and the animals stats portion REALLY need to reference the table on pages 81-83.

That is aggravating. I will have to read the "Travel & Timing" section to see how this all shakes out.

[ArmySGT.]

Page 175 "Maximum speed is used to find running PACE. STR and Dex are calculated from PACE.
Page 37 (STR+DEX+MASS/10) = PACE

Where is the table for converting KPH to PACE?

(HeadDesk)

[RandyT0001]

Page 37
......character's pace, also represents the number of kilometers they can walk an hour.

[ArmySGT.]

Page 37
......character's pace, also represents the number of kilometers they can walk an hour.

Correct.

Vehicles though, page 175, maximum speed is used to find running pace. Wheeled vehicles get an overall x6 multiplier (x3,x2 for wheels). STR and Dex are calculated from the PACE value.

I am trying to determine how they came up with the stats for the XR-311 on page 180.

126 kph = PACE = 21

How?

[RandyT0001]

126 divided by 6 = pace of 21
21 multiply by 10 for 210
210-32(mass)=178 (combined dex and str)

mass of 32-12=20
20/3=6.6667 (dex adjustment)
Starting stat for dex=20
20-6.6667=13.3333
round up to 14 for Dex stat
178-14 dex = 164 for Str

[ArmySGT.]

126 divided by 6 = pace of 21
21 multiply by 10 for 210
210-32(mass)=178 (combined dex and str)

mass of 32-12=20
20/3=6.6667 (dex adjustment)
Starting stat for dex=20
20-6.6667=13.3333
round up to 14 for Dex stat
178-14 dex = 164 for Str

That is really good. Thanks. How do you think the -1 per 3 mass over 12 factored in?

[RandyT0001]

the mass is 32 then I subtract the 12 for the 20
then divided the 20 by 3 to determine the dex adjustment of 6.6667 that is subtracted from the standard starting dex of 20 as listed on page 249.
I just rounded it up to get the 14 as stated in the book so I guess all are rounded up.

Does that answer this question?
How do you think the -1 per 3 mass over 12 factored in?

?

[ArmySGT.]

That is really good. Thanks. How do you think the -1 per 3 mass over 12 factored in?

This is also on page 175.

[Ieqo]

There's another advantage that the 311 has that both the HMMWV and the M1951 Jeep lack: the 311 was not in the US (or Canadian or Soviet) military inventory. Therefore, teams could tool around without looking like the Army and (perhaps more importantly) without looking like they were trying to look like the Army. In the 3-5 year planning scenario there'd almost certainly still be some active Guard units doing their thing so the Project planners would have wanted to do whatever they could to give their teams a chance to say "Hey. This is who we are and what we're trying to do." BEFORE getting shot at.

As for the usual bitching about the 311 in Damocles... Prime Base would probably not have woke the team up in the Winter anyway, so from an operational planning standpoint, nothing to see here. The way it plays out it acts as an additional clue that Something Is Wrong Here. There aren't any rules for teams getting hypothermia. Someone made that crap up. It just emphasizes that it's freaking cold and gives the team incentive to make contact with Wittsend.

[ArmySGT.]

There's another advantage that the 311 has that both the HMMWV and the M1951 Jeep lack: the 311 was not in the US (or Canadian or Soviet) military inventory. Therefore, teams could tool around without looking like the Army and (perhaps more importantly) without looking like they were trying to look like the Army. In the 3-5 year planning scenario there'd almost certainly still be some active Guard units doing their thing so the Project planners would have wanted to do whatever they could to give their teams a chance to say "Hey. This is who we are and what we're trying to do." BEFORE getting shot at. Unfortunately, it has a .50 M2HB loaded in the ring turret. Regardless of whether it is an XR-311, HMMWV, or a LandRover....... if the Team was woken in the 3-5 year plan I don't see any surviving Law Enforcement, National Guard, or Federal Troops allowing them to operate. They would be imprisoned and their equipment confiscated. Whatever the altruistic tale they could spin would be disregarded, ignored, laughed at, or treated as a lie.


As for the usual bitching about the 311 in Damocles... Prime Base would probably not have woke the team up in the Winter anyway, so from an operational planning standpoint, nothing to see here. The way it plays out it acts as an additional clue that Something Is Wrong Here. There aren't any rules for teams getting hypothermia. Someone made that crap up. It just emphasizes that it's freaking cold and gives the team incentive to make contact with Wittsend. PF2 Damocles, Play of the game, section 1, Section 5, page 31

[ArmySGT.]

Vehicle data and Hit tables for the Project XR-311 w/ M2HB

The most common team support vehicle and pack mule.

3458

[Rockwolf66]

I know it's a bit of a thread Necro but does anyone know how much 7.62X51mm ammo an XR-311 would have carried?

[mmartin798]

The 4th edition rules list 2000 rounds, which is not unreasonable. 7.62x51mm linked is packed as a 200 cartridge belt in a M19A1 ammo box. Each box measures 11" x 3.8125" x7.25". Packing 10 will take up a space of 33" x 7.625" x14.5", or 2.11 cu ft. the XR311 has 33 cu ft of cargo space behind the seats, so it sounds about right.

[cosmicfish]

The 4th edition rules list 2000 rounds, which is not unreasonable. 7.62x51mm linked is packed as a 200 cartridge belt in a M19A1 ammo box. Each box measures 11" x 3.8125" x7.25". Packing 10 will take up a space of 33" x 7.625" x14.5", or 2.11 cu ft. the XR311 has 33 cu ft of cargo space behind the seats, so it sounds about right.
Don't just think about the volume, think about the weight. 2000 rounds of linked 7.62 is pretty close to 150lb, and that is a good chunk of your nominal payload in a vehicle that size. That would be absolutely fine for something on a short patrol, but a Morrow team has to live out of their MPV's for an extended time. You might have better use for that mass.

[Rockwolf66]

Don't just think about the volume, think about the weight. 2000 rounds of linked 7.62 is pretty close to 150lb, and that is a good chunk of your nominal payload in a vehicle that size. That would be absolutely fine for something on a short patrol, but a Morrow team has to live out of their MPV's for an extended time. You might have better use for that mass.

You are forgetting that a 100 round can of .50 BMG weighs about 35 pounds each. So an M60 or FN MAG and 2k worth of ammo is actually going to be lighter than a M2HB and 500 rounds of ammo.

The TOW launcher version carries a 205 pound missile system and an additional 480 pounds of Missiles.

[nuke11]

A list of all of the cargo space available in/on the XR311.

1. Engine cover provides a platform for up to 850 lbs (386 kgs) of cargo. Provides over 19 cubic feet (0.54 cubic meters) of cargo space without exceeding the height of the vehicle.

2. Approximately 33 cubic feet (0.93 cubic meters) of space behind the seats. 60 cubic feet (1.7 cubic meters) of storage is available when the right seat is folded down with the center seat's back folded down.

3. 3.5 cubic feet (0.1 cubic meters) on a shelf beside the instrument panel.

I would guess a bit more space is available once the conventional engine is removed and replaced with a fusion one.

[cosmicfish]

You are forgetting that a 100 round can of .50 BMG weighs about 35 pounds each. So an M60 or FN MAG and 2k worth of ammo is actually going to be lighter than a M2HB and 500 rounds of ammo.

The TOW launcher version carries a 205 pound missile system and an additional 480 pounds of Missiles.
I wasn't forgetting, alternate loads just hadn't been raised. One big issue with TMP is that most of these vehicles were designed for relatively short independent action, field teams may have to make some Oregon Trail-type decisions about what to carry!