Who Would Make a Good Warlord?

[Raellus]

It seems like most of the well-known T2K module marauder leaders are ex-military. That obviously makes a lot of sense but I'd like options, and I'm sure there would be non-military bandit kings out there too in a post-apoc world. Who would make a good warlord?

Let's except crime bosses and street gang leaders as being fairly obvious as well. Who does that leave?

Powerful local law enforcement figures. Here in Arizona there's a long-serving Sheriff who's often been accused of making his own laws, or at least acting as though he were above the existing ones. Such figures strike me as being perfectly placed to assumed warlorddom when the SHTF.

Someone who runs a security company might be in a position to try to accrue more power. He/she would have a ready force of armed personnel, and perhaps access to armored vehicles (AFAIK, most bankroll/payroll transporters belong to private contractors and not the financial institutions themselves).

For some reason, construction company owners strike me as being in a good position to become local strongmen. They have experience and resources that would be in high demand in the event of a governmental breakdown, and rolls of employees used to hard, physical labor, and getting their hands dirty (literally).

Maybe talk radio hosts? A really charismatic figure with a large audience could, while the airwaves are still open, mobilize quite a force of like-minded people.

Along the same lines, charismatic religious leaders could manipulate followers into becoming their private armies. I'm thinking that evangelical millennialists and "end-timers" would be particularly well-sited to seize power on a local or even regional level.

What other types of pre-war careers would produce unconventional but plausible candidates for post-TDM warlordism?

[Cdnwolf]

Gang leaders.... major CEOs of some corporation.... spin doctors

[pmulcahy11b]

Possibly...under the right circumstances...an evangelical preacher.

[Tegyrius]

In many parts of rural America, particularly the Deep South, your local warlords will be whichever families already hold power in their home counties by virtue of multi-generational accrual of wealth and political connections. They're the dynasties who've had a sheriff or county commissioner or judge or county coroner or jailer in every generation. Their names are already on the local companies that are the county's biggest employers. Their kids always get away with everything in high school before going to a private college. They may not be powerful in D.C. but they sure can pull strings in the state senate. When things start falling apart, the ones who are actually competent (as opposed to just riding along on their ancestors' achievements) will emerge as natural power foci.

- C.

[Rainbow Six]

A bar or nightclub owner may have, initially at least, access to a number of "luxury" items - alcohol, tobacco, drugs, women, as well as a range of contacts they might be able to call on, and be well known within the local community, all of which may come in useful when empire building.

On a related note to the bar / nightclub owner, I don't know if you intended to include this under security companies, but in the UK it's common for bar / nightclub bouncers to work for specialist companies who then provide doormen to pubs on a contract basis, so someone who owned one of those companies would potentially have access to a number of people who are well used to trouble. In some cases the same companies also provided stewards for concerts / football matches, etc, so have hundreds of people on their payrolll (for many it's a second job opportunity and / or a chance to get into events for free).

Probably too obvious, but pre war politicians might be an option.

A charismatic university professor perhaps? Possibly one who has studied / taught certain periods of history that may have given them some knowledge / insight that may prove useful in the T2K World? For example, someone who is a subject matter expert on the medieval World may attempt to use their knowledge to recreate some sort of feudal State with themselves at its centre?

Ultimately though, all you really need is someone particularly charismatic who is ideally a good orator as well. When I put my Alternative Survivor's Guide to the UK together I made one of the major marauder leaders a former call centre worker who manoeuvred himself into being in the right place at the right time

http://www.twilight2000files.com/page702.html

Another was a student nurse before the war

http://www.twilight2000files.com/page72.html

So whilst some career paths obviously offer an advantage in terms of having resources / people already in place, I think pretty much anyone could end up as a warlord, particularly in areas where there is a mass movement of people leading to refugees overwhelming established communities.

[Targan]

Me.

[pmulcahy11b]

Me.

+1

[RN7]

Me.

Always thought there was something megalomaniac about you Targan :)

[pmulcahy11b]

Here's possibly stupid idea, but still possible in my mind: Major TV personalities (especially from news organizations) who had a large following before TV went byebye.

[Askold]

People seem to assume that military officers make perfect warlord material but there is an obvious problem there. They hold authority due to their rank in the military. Any authority they have is basically because of that rank, if the military collapses how many soldiers will continue blindly following them if they decide to become warlords? Certainly some might want to stick together simply because it offers better chances of survival but they might just as well decide to leave and try to get back to their families or perhaps find other units are not being led by a "warlord."

Gangs, biker gangs and organised criminal organisations on the other hand I see as a perfect breeding ground for warlords and their armies.

[Webstral]

My wife.

[Webstral]

Possibly...under the right circumstances...an evangelical preacher.

I used this idea with the Blood Horde in northern New England. I've been thinking about trying to develop something with a bit less cannibalism and sacking and more genuinely Christian spirit for a surviving community in Phoenix.

[Olefin]

Here's possibly stupid idea, but still possible in my mind: Major TV personalities (especially from news organizations) who had a large following before TV went byebye.

a la The Omega Man with Charlton Heston

Course could also just be someone famous

i.e. The Postman movie

[Wolf sword]

What about History or a Political Science Professor.

[Raellus]

People seem to assume that military officers make perfect warlord material but there is an obvious problem there. They hold authority due to their rank in the military. Any authority they have is basically because of that rank, if the military collapses how many soldiers will continue blindly following them if they decide to become warlords? Certainly some might want to stick together simply because it offers better chances of survival but they might just as well decide to leave and try to get back to their families or perhaps find other units are not being led by a "warlord."

Not just any officer is going to become a warlord by virtue of their rank. The crap ones would be more likely to be fragged in a SHTF scenario. But, as the Romans have taught us, loyalty to a successful and/or charismatic officer can often trump loyalty to a more abstract concept such as "the state" or "the people". In Rome's case, this phenomenon led to the end of the Republic and largely contributed to the end of the Empire.

[kato13]

This list

http://www.ranker.com/list/list-of-famous-warlords/reference?page=1

seems to show that being a military person, or a religious or political leader is the most common pre-warlord occupation.

[Targan]

Always thought there was something megalomaniac about you Targan :)

My online gaming name for the last decade has been Monomaniacal. I think that says it all :D

[SionEwig]

Pretty much anyone who has been in any type of leadership position could be a possible good warlord. It's more the person rather than what they have been. A possible off the wall one could be an experienced youth group leader. Or a park ranger, forrest ranger type.

[Apache6]

I've GM'd a local Sheriff in a southern county who 'grew' almost unwillingly into a warlord as other elements including the state and local elected officials proved incapable of providing order and/or security. His intention was to protect his county and ensure justice. This certainly has historic precedence.

As does the wealthy cattle baron, minor or farmer hiring protection that eventually grows into a 'militia' of its own. This scenario has occurred in Columbia where "FARC" guerrilla (originally a Marxist group) have basically become the security force for drug growers, who have then grown to control significant portions of real estate, has occurred in recent history.

In many cases the difference between a militia band, a contract security force and a warlords army might be almost semantic. In all cases, the truth will be colored by the intent, beliefs, perceptions and propaganda of the various speakers.

If he is my enemy, I might call a a charismatic and effective leader of a county militia, a warlord, gang leader, or warcriminal... Of course if he's in my pay or doing my bidding he's a brave defender of the helpless. If I'm a single mother who is being protected, I might call him a hero or even willingly 'my lord' and be proud of his successes.

[pmulcahy11b]

[QUOTE=SionEwig;60784]Pretty much anyone who has been in any type of leadership position could be a possible good warlord. It's more the person rather than what they have been. A possible off the wall one could be an experienced youth group leader. Or a park ranger, forr

I've been a forest ranger in Virginia. Some will never listen to you, especially kids on a field trip. A forest ranger would better be a specialist asset to a warlord.

[Raellus]

There's a somewhat interesting German film called The Wave (that, at least, is the American English title) about a high school teacher who conducts a simulation/social experiment with his students on the topic of totalitarianism. I don't want to give too much away but things spiral out of control pretty quickly.

[Bullet Magnet]

While people in certain occupations may be more likely, I think anyone with a sharp mind, tenacity, and the ability to persuade, could potentially become a warlord in a T2K situation.

Think of Tina Turner's character in 'Thunderdome'. It's been a while since I've seen that movie, but I seem to recall, in one scene, she's talking to Max & asks him what he did before their world went charcoal. Then she talks about her life back then, and as I recall, she was nothing special then (I don't recall exactly what). She was a "nobody", worked a crap job. Then, the "boom", and after that, she clawed her way to "the top", running Barter Town.

It's all about getting an opportunity, and being able to see the opportunity, and knowing how to seize the opportunity.

[SionEwig]

I've been a forest ranger in Virginia. Some will never listen to you, especially kids on a field trip. A forest ranger would better be a specialist asset to a warlord.

Well, some people are not going to listen to someone in any of the professions mentioned in this thread. And kids on a field trip, especially to the wide open spaces, do tend to be had to get the attention of. Nonetheless, a park ranger or forest ranger could still become an effective warlord, at least in the right circumstances (just like any profession could).

[Adm.Lee]

A charismatic university professor perhaps? Possibly one who has studied / taught certain periods of history that may have given them some knowledge / insight that may prove useful in the T2K World? For example, someone who is a subject matter expert on the medieval World may attempt to use their knowledge to recreate some sort of feudal State with themselves at its centre?


If not a professor, a university president/chancellor/provost/whatever-- someone used to holding power, who's got some cachet in the community outside the university, perhaps as a former professor or judge.

Heck, combine it with politician-- a former mayor or governor, now univ. professor/president. I think most US states and cities might have a law prohibiting too many back-to-back terms as chief executive, so a "retirement" to State U., located in the capitol, might be a nice way for Popular Governor X. to sit out the four-year term of his handpicked successor (or opposite party opponent) in the Governor's Mansion.

I don't know of anyone like this in the '90s, but Ohio's Gov. Jim Rhodes was governor for 2 terms, sat out the 1971-75 term and returned to the Statehouse 1975-83, since the law was "no more than 2 consecutive terms as governor". He ran again in 1986 for a 5th term, but lost. He wasn't a university president in between, but someone else could have done it. Someone with that kind of longevity would have a lot of influence over state office-holders, local politicians, and even police and militia appointments.

Woodrow Wilson went from Princeton Univ. president to NJ governor to US President.

Alternately, cities don't usually have such restrictions, so a mayor who had been re-elected over and over could have deep roots into patronage and power, to become a warlord.

[James Langham2]

There's a somewhat interesting German film called The Wave (that, at least, is the American English title) about a high school teacher who conducts a simulation/social experiment with his students on the topic of totalitarianism. I don't want to give too much away but things spiral out of control pretty quickly.

Possibly more accessible is the English novel of the experiment by Michael Rhue.

[Raellus]

Thanks, James, I'll check that out.

Quite a few of the replies to my original query re-listed the usual suspects. I guess I was hoping for some subtlety and/or a little authentic humanity- in other words, something not already portrayed in popular media ad nauseum. We all know the archtypes- they're easy to identify, familiar, comforting even, but to seasoned post-apoc warriors such as ourselves, they're also becoming rather trite, colorless, and cliché.

For a case study in subtle, nuanced humanity and the creation of a real-life warlord, let's look at history's most notorious example. Physically, he was unattractive and less than average by most metrics. His one defining physical feature became iconic only after his ascension to power. Prior to that, it was fairly commonplace and wholly unremarkable (unless you were familiar with early American cinema). This man's early career goal was not something associated with martial/political leaders of men. He suffered failure, professionally and personally, on several occasions. He did serve in the military during wartime, in combat, with distinction, but his unit-mates didn't think much of him. He certainly wasn't warlord material at that point in his life. He spent time in prison. He wrote a book that not many people at the time bothered to read. He had at least one serious romantic relationship, although many suspect it was never properly consummated. There are second hand reports of some kinky pseudo-sexual behavior. He was fond of little children (although, apparently not inappropriately) and doted on his dog. He surrounded himself with other unattractive people who could well have been described by their contemporaries as losers. All in all, this is not a description of your typical warlord as portrayed in popular media.

If he hadn't been a master manipulator, with a gift for public speaking, myth-making, inspiring intense personal loyalty to himself in others, and unleashing these followers' potential for committing great evils, none of us would ever have heard of Adolf Hitler.

[James Langham2]

Actually it is interesting looking at the published modules:

good guys - civil leaders
bad guys - ex-military

I know this is a simplification but it is understandable really. Actually warlord is a kind of biased term...

I like the concept of the reluctant warlord forced by circumstances.

[Bullet Magnet]

Actually it is interesting looking at the published modules:

good guys - civil leaders
bad guys - ex-military

I know this is a simplification but it is understandable really. Actually warlord is a kind of biased term...

I like the concept of the reluctant warlord forced by circumstances.

Rather than 'interesting', I think a more appropriate adjective would be 'stereotypical'. After all, this has been the belief our masters in Hollywood have been ordering us to follow since the 1960s.

[rcaf_777]

I would think that anyone can be a warlord given the right set of circumstances.

In the aftermath of the TW 2000 nuclear strikes many people who hold leadship postions could find themselves becoming a warlords.

Why? cause in time of crisis people look for leaders and seek there help.

A Military Officer could find that when face with frighten soilders and civilians, them begin issues orders that make him a warlord

The same could be said of any Law enforcement Officer, or Mayor or any community leader.

[James Langham2]

Rather than 'interesting', I think a more appropriate adjective would be 'stereotypical. After all, this has been the belief our masters in Hollywood have been ordering us to follow since the 1960s.

one of the problems with stereotypes is that they have a basis in reality to begin with...

Actually I am reading a short history of the wars in the former Yugoslavia and that lists a few pre-war professions of warlords. I will try and type them up when I have a minute.

[Raellus]

Actually I am reading a short history of the wars in the former Yugoslavia and that lists a few pre-war professions of warlords. I will try and type them up when I have a minute.

I've been looking for a good history of the most recent Balkan wars. What's it called?

[lisa]

Hmm.
Perhaps I would.
Seductive powers have worked wonders for a very long time.

[Adm.Lee]

Actually it is interesting looking at the published modules:

good guys - civil leaders
bad guys - ex-military

I know this is a simplification but it is understandable really. Actually warlord is a kind of biased term....

Several of the ex-military warlords that I remember in the American modules were deserters or those who had been jailed/dishonorably discharged?

[James Langham2]

Hmm.
Perhaps I would.
Seductive powers have worked wonders for a very long time.

It's the Osprey Essential History Guide - it is really only a primer but it does make a few interesting points.

[James Langham2]

Yugoslavian examples of pre-war professions:

Lawyer turned banker (Milosovic)
Dentist (Brabic)
Bank Robber (Arkan) - also ran football team fan club
Intellectual (professor?) (Seselj)
Arny (Mladic)
Psychiatrist turned politician (Karadzic)
Lawyer and scholar (Izetbegovic)
Businessman (Abdic)
Supermarket manager (Boban)
? but spent 12 years working n Australia (Kraljevic)