OT: Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Targan]

Do my eyes deceive me? I'm seeing regular Russian Army T-72s on Ukrainian soil on tonight's news footage. That's not mobilization only, fresh-out-of-mothballs surplus stuff, that's genuine Cold War MBTs rolling across the border. And still the Russians say it's not their military that's involved, but maybe some soldiers who are "on leave and fighting as volunteers". So they went on leave and took their tanks with them? The arrogance just amazes me.

[Askold]

At this point denying that Russian forces are involved in the fighting in Ukraine is pointless. There is so much evidence for it so I don't think even Russia thinks people are buying it. They might be doing it for their domestic propaganda or just buying time for something.

Besides the amount of firepower the separatists have would be utterly impossible if it wasn't being shipped from Russia.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/two-wounded-ukrainian-anti-aircraft-gunners-blow-themselves-up-together-with-12-russian-paratroopers-362535.html

Ukrainians seem to be fighting with attitude.

[Schone23666]

Nope, your eyes doth not deceive thee, Targan. Indeed, Ivan still wants to play with his balls in the Ukraine, and at this rate and the way things are going, he'll probably eventually want to play in Moldova, Romania, the Baltic States, Poland, etc. etc. etc....

And so far the response has been more or less as I expected. "Bad Ivan! Naughty Ivan! Bad, bad, bad!"

[John Farson]

What with this, and the war in Syria & Iraq, RL is starting to resemble the timeline of a T2kx game. T2k15? T2k16?

[Schone23666]

What with this, and the war in Syria & Iraq, RL is starting to resemble the timeline of a T2kx game. T2k15? T2k16?

You also forgot nasty tensions brewing in Asia with China asserting itself and claiming the South China Sea as it's personal ocean, and Japan taking a more proactive role in defense. A state of near anarchy/civil war in Libya. Afghanistan is still roiling alongside Pakistan. The Nationalists are now in control of India. An unprecedented Ebola outbreak in West Africa, etc.

So yeah, perhaps slowly, yet surely. Funny how fiction on occasion can start mirroring real life, no? Might be time to finally start investing in a really deep fallout shelter with lots of provisions, food, water and lots of weapons. Anyone interested? I will happily pay you Tuesday for a loan today, according to my sig of course...

[headquarters]

reading the comments so far made me think..what would be a good book to bring to the shelter ( ref. Schones ideas) for that long bunker stay?

Something cheery like Arto Paasilinnas "Collective suicide" ? or a classic? Tolstoj? Or something fun and useful - Brysons "A short history of nearly everything"

hmm...

[Cdnwolf]

Don't forget the nasty little ebola outbreak in Africa... expect to top 20,000 by years end.

[DigTw0Grav3s]

I expect to see significant militarization in Europe well before the end of the decade.

America has no economic or political will to find land wars in Eurasia for the foreseeable future, and will move towards a Cold War-style proxy balancing strategy. Germany, France and the U.K. appear to be trying to drive Europe towards a sustainable regional defense, even if they have to drag the rest of the EU with them.

This trend will have significant repercussions for East-West military stability.

[stormlion1]

Got to agree, Europe is gonna arm up. But will they get the other European nations to follow suit? I doubt it. The interesting thing will be how they arm up, bigger overall armys? More Tanks? Newer designs or more of the older ones? And when Putin finally is gone even if he never threatens Europe will they keep it together?

[Schone23666]

Well, this adds another degree of "oh sh!t" to it all:

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-has-threatened-nuclear-attack-says-ukraine-defence-minister-267842

It may be (and probably is) just more hype and posturing by Russia and the Ukraine, but considering that they're basically at war now, and Ukraine doesn't have a nuclear arsenal unlike Russia...

[Targan]

Giving the Russians a one-week deadline to cease and desist is ridiculous. In a week they might well hold most of those parts of eastern Ukraine that they want and then they can just stay in place and it will be a fait accompli. I feel sorry for Ukraine, I'm sure they'd love to be admitted into NATO ASAP but that would mean instant World War 3 so it's not going to happen. It's sad that the US and its allies, including Australia, have involved themselves in conflicts in recent decades that were pretty iffy in their justifications and gone really hard in terms of manpower and duration, and now that there are some really, really serious military threats that desperately need to be dealt with (bloody ISIS forming its extreme jihadist caliphate across big chunks of Iraq and Syria, Russia annexing large parts of Ukraine) and we're doing little more than standing back and watching. *Sigh*

[stormlion1]

Russia can threaten all they want, but they know that no one will have anything to do with them for quite some time if they pop one or two off. Its a bit more serious than a land grab or shooting down a civvie airliner. Which has anyone noticed hasn't been on the news at all anymore. And if there is one way to get Europe to arm up fast, its to pop off nukes on there borders.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUBCF3KKxc

WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

[Targan]

Which has anyone noticed hasn't been on the news at all anymore.

It's still on the news here.

[Cdnwolf]

Ukraine issues vague report on agreeing with Putin on cease-fire steps; rebels reject the plan

The Canadian Press By Jim Heintz And Nataliya Vasilyeva, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 18 minutes ago

KIEV, Ukraine - Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on pro-Russian insurgents in eastern Ukraine to "stop advancing" and for the Ukrainian army to withdraw their troops from the region.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said earlier Wednesday that Kyiv and Moscow agreed on a cease-fire in eastern Ukraine but Putin's spokesman said later Moscow was not in a position to agree to it because it is not party to the conflict.

Putin was quoted by Russian news agencies on Wednesday saying that Kyiv must withdraw its troops and stop artillery strikes. Putin said he expected the final agreements to be reached in Minsk, Belarus, on Friday.

[Schone23666]

Well, it seems the so-called "cease fire" has already unraveled, there's reports of fresh casualties in Eastern Ukraine.

And now it seems the Russians just recently kidnapped an Estonian official who they accuse of spying only a few days after Obama paid a visit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kimberly-marten/putins-whack-a-mole-game_b_5780602.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

And yet it seems the cult worship of Pooty continues....here's a particularly amusing one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726030/Meet-Putinkinis-New-propaganda-push-sees-young-women-showing-support-Kremlin-hardman.html

That girl on the far left bottom picture though (Anastasia Petrova) almost fooled me as Jessica Alba.Great-looking gals with the bodies to prove it I admit, but they still have bad taste in men.

[Webstral]

I, for one, am glad that there is no real risk of having the 82nd Airborne steamrollered by Russian mechanized forces the way Hussein should have done in 1990. It surely sucks for the Ukrainians, but the Ukraine is just too far forward for us to project power without building up a very substantial logistical base locally. I can say confidently that this former 11B will not be reenlisting only to see his countrymen can change the channel once they get bored.