Contact pack

[ArmySGT.]

The "Contact Pack" *contents thanks to Kato13

Hat, Felt, floppy "crusher", white in color 1
Bandana, Neckercheif, Red 1
Jacket, Denim, "Levis" 1
Shirt, Work, Cotton Flannel, Plaid in color 2
Boots, Hiking, Leather, "Kastinger" 1 Pair
Belt, Leather 1
Socks, Wool 4 Pair
Pack, Nylon 1
Pack, Nylon (contents listed)
Candles
Twine
Food, Canned 1 Days ration 3
Underwear
Pack and personal items, assorted
Flask, Hip, containing Scotch 12 oz
Revolver, M-29, Cal. .44 magnum w/ 6 1/2 bbl 1
Holster, Leather 1
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 50

Either
Carbine, Marlin 1894, Cal. 44 Magnum 1
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 30

Shotgun, Remington 870, 12 Guage 1
Shell, 12 Guage 30


I think collectively we can do better.

What do you think?

Third edition....

Fourth edition......

I think some things are missing that a "survivor" of a nuclear holocaust might have acquired.

a zippo, flint and steel, tinder box, geiger counter, potassium iodide, a first aid kit, wool blankets.........

[kalos72]

Forgive me because I am unfamiliar with the details but...what are these packs used for?

Whats the purpose of a "contact pack" or team?

[kato13]

If a team does not want to roll into town fusion packs rumbling and 25mm cannons glinting they might send in a contact specialist into the town to scout things out.

This was extra equipment added to a team to allow for a member to look like a post apoc survivor rather than a highly trained paramilitary.

[Craig67]

I don't think it was intended as a "survivors walkabout kit" but just a few items to allow the user to blend in better than in full military style kit.

It could be supplemented by stuff from the standard issue that all MP personal have. The sleeping bag, poncho, matches, pocket knife, M1 CBR and KCB-70 come to mind.

[kalos72]

Understood thank you.

Did these contact people have special skills or guidelines?

[stormlion1]

I just get a kick out of the Marlin. I just bought one a few weeks ago in 30-30. And I keep all my ammo on bandoliers I bought at Cabela's last week.

[stormlion1]

Well in many ways a Contact kit needs to look used and be things that a survivor would generally find or had before a emergency. So Civilian clothes that are warm-Jeans, T-shirt, Flannel Shirt in colder climes, scrounged jacket-most likely leather or military jacket. Sleeping bag like something you would find at Dicks or Bass Pro Shop. Possibly a small tent, and worn shoes or boots. Weight will be key. Too much gear and a contact could get mugged for it all and make people wonder where they come from and how they got good gear.

Weapon wise I would say a single pistol of some type and a bolt action rifle or a shotgun. If a Contact shows up with a repeater or a semi automatic there is once again the possibility they might get mugged for it. Its best to reduce temptation and depend on the rest of the team for back up than have a contact get shot as soon as they show up because someone see's a fancy repeater and decides they want it.

[Craig67]

In Operation Lucifer its clearly stated that the items look worn but are in perfect working condition.

[ArmySGT.]

In Operation Lucifer its clearly stated that the items look worn but are in perfect working condition.

Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?

[kato13]

I took the kits contents from Operation Lucifer but I admit it is a little light.

I think we could add some the following as many are pretty small (these are items in my personal equipment packs as well)

Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Knfie fork spoon
Mess Kit Bag
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Bungee Cord x 2
Shelter Half
Wool Blanket
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
Boot Knife
Swiss Army Knife
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
Magnesium Fire Starter
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
Pencil x 3
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
Personal Defense Spray
Small Sewing Kit
Pacer Beads
Mini Binoculars

You might even add a few coins or other items from the trade packs depending on the situation.

[cosmicfish]

Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?
That depends both on the nature of the disguise and how long it is supposed to hold up. Neither are made clear in the books, but my best guess is "hobo" and "not tremendously long". If you don't first answer the questions "why am I here" and "who am I supposed to be, anyway" you can't really make a disguise that is going to do anything more than disguise Morrow affiliation... which I am pretty sure was the point anyway.

Personally, I would say that the designated contact people should have assembled their own pack so that the contents were unique but sensible to the individuals. Remember, they don't need to survive on this stuff more than a day or so, and they can always say that they just lost <insert vital gear here> a few days ago due to river/bandits/throwing-it-off-a-cliff!

[stormlion1]

I look at it that to well equipped the contact person leaves themselves open to harassment. Not everyone will have access to a canteen for instance. In fact that's a pretty rare piece of equipment unless you go out and look for one. Not everyone goes camping or has a army navy store nearby.

[kato13]

I think it all depends on the situation.

If you have a trading post type town having more might be ok.

The more im thinking about it the more I like the concept of pretending to be a refugee. Seeing how they treat someone who is helpless might be a good indicator of the general vibe of the town.

[stormlion1]

I did a test recently. Mostly because I was putting together a new Get Home Bag and I asked several of my friends if they had things I would consider essentials. Things like canteens and backpacks or sleeping bags and what not. Out of them all only two had any kind of preparations or gear. One is a avid camper so of course she was well equipped and the other had a backpack and that was it. Everyone is a refugee when the world ends these days. But very few are equipped to handle it. I like to think that a contact person needs to blend in, and in a world of refugee's then its time to dress like one.

[ArmySGT.]

I would expect a Contact Specialist from either Recon or Specialist Psy Ops to spend a few days with any group. Any judgements made in a few hours would be little more than snap judgements.

In this way, I feel the equipment has to fill the expectations. I, totally, agree that the Contact Specialist would have built the kit from thrift store purchases pre-War. This way the clothes would fit, the boots broken in, and the equipment would be familiar. Wouldn't want to be trying to use a flint & steel for the first time in front of new contacts.

[stormlion1]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

[ArmySGT.]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

Human Intelligence is best intelligence. You could do it pre-War.... Have a specialist minus long arms attempt infiltration of something like an art commune or logging camp.

[RandyT0001]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

Read p22 through p23 of 4th edition. Start in right column p22 at "The Basic Course takes three months." until middle of left column p23 ending with "Once the team has reached this phase,...."

[Craig67]

Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise?

Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.

[stormlion1]

Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.

Precisely! Most wanderers or travelers would never have any military gear but only civvie stuff and well worn stuff at that. Every sleep in a civvie tent for more than two weeks? They get torn up unless your careful.

[cosmicfish]

Whether they have civilian gear or military is irrelevant - there will certainly be surplus military gear around, so a given traveler could easily have either. If it exists as an item of non-Morrow equipment, there is a plausible reason why a given traveler could have it or not have it.

The biggest problem for the contact person is not their gear, it is (at least the first time around) coming up with a reason why they are travelling in the first place, and explaining their inexplicable lack of knowledge about certain subjects. Remember, the contact person is not an emissary to some newly discovered aboriginal tribe, they are a distant cousin of that very same tribe, expected to share a certain degree of communal knowledge and experience.

[cosmicfish]

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.
Any traveler would either have a complete kit, be trying to settle down and avoid further travel, or be working to complete that kit. Post-apocalyptic travel is too slow, onerous, and dangerous for anyone to willingly try it without adequate gear.

[ArmySGT.]

Military or Civilian wouldn't bother anyone..... 95% of the people on the planet died. National Guard armories would be looted (no ammunition in State armories). Any soldiers, guardsmen, or reservists homes would turn up anything issued currently and surplus from the past.

What I think screams "FAKE!" is that the kit has nothing to cook with or eat with. There isn't even a can opener for the canned goods. There isn't anything to sleep under like a wool blanket. If you can't live out of the kit, then you look like your weren't meant to; this means spy.

Any survivors community would be suspicious just on account of raiders and thieves.

[kato13]

I think the pack should have well used equipment but have lots of options. It could have 300 items, but the specialist might only carry 20 of them if that is what the situation calls for.

I can see the specialist posing as

A refugee
A victim of local banditry
A wandering tradesman
A "bard"
A messenger
A beggar
A person looking for lost loved ones
A merchant (this makes more sense if the party has a horse)


Heck if they have good acting skills they might even portray a simpleton.

I always try to remember that the project expected contact to be five years after and had literally no idea what they would find, so I like flexibility.

Even though we had a 95% death rate there could still be a town with 10,000 people. That requires a different interaction plan than if you are dealing with the standard two street town as seen in so many westerns, where everyone knows everyone and a new face would draw much attention.

[stormlion1]

Me and some friends were talking about prepping and it was noted that walled towns would become a thing again. So fences and wrecked cars and the like would quickly go up around towns and such. With visitors being screened as they came in or allowed only outside a town in a designated trade area.

[kato13]

I agree that borders would be as solid as people could make them for a central secure area, but people could not stay in those areas all the time. They simply could not create borders large enough to enclose an area that would feed them. In many situations you end up with a mid-evil castle or western territory fort type situation IMO.

That was always my problem with the Road Warrior. Where is their food coming from?

If areas are producing surplus agriculture you could end up with a highly fortified section like found in the movie. Where those around the area trade food for "Juice", but your first interaction would probably be with someone in the farms surrounding any central secured point.

I should add the caveat that my thoughts are for a group of 5 year survivors. Over 150 years it would be possible to cover a significant border with protection, but then it still would be very difficult to have the manpower to patrol it all.

[stormlion1]

Actually we figured on a redoubt area. A mid sized reinforced area people could fall back to in a emergency and sleep and live in while agriculture remained outside as would merchants and the such. Most raiders are going to look for the easy to get stuff. Food, fuel. There not going to dig lima beans out of the ground or pick apples but go for the already picked stuff and the hoarded supplies.

We considered metal shipping containers filled with engine blocks and rocks and dirt for walls stacked two high for the walls. The bottom full of junk and weight and the top one full of murder holes and sleeping areas for guards.

These stacked across roads and in between buildings with a towns buildings being the bulk of the fortifications. A population could remain safe inside and counterattack and leave when its quiet for commerce and agriculture.

[ArmySGT.]

I look at it that to well equipped the contact person leaves themselves open to harassment. Not everyone will have access to a canteen for instance. In fact that's a pretty rare piece of equipment unless you go out and look for one. Not everyone goes camping or has a army navy store nearby.

I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.

[stormlion1]

I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.

[ArmySGT.]

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.

Might in fact be regional.... Things can be a long drive here just to go shopping.... Denver Metro, you can have anything or get anything....live out on the Plains or in the Mountains and you can expect to drive hours to get it.

A blizzard here can mean empty shelves in grocery stores for seven to fourteen days on some items. It can also mean getting stuck because roads are closed.

Really, though outdoor activities ranks highly on most peoples reasons for living in Colorado... typically skiing, snowboarding, camping, hiking, and climbing with a lot of runners and cyclists too.

[ArmySGT.]

I have been to Bass Pro, Cabela's, REI, Sportsman's warehouse, Big 5, and several other large chains here locally. Then there is plenty of small business outdoor or army/navy surplus shops too.

Heck, I get used camping gear at yardsales and Good will. Sometimes it is in excellent shape.

[stormlion1]

I have got to move out west...

[kato13]

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic.

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.

[RandyT0001]

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic.

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
A film container containing 12 oz cannabis.
A six foot long, 2in diameter hollow bamboo bong/walking stick, a heirloom of the Vietnam war.
Made the necessary corrections.

[cosmicfish]

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so.
There are a few important points being missed here, I think.

1) The war will kill a lot of people and destroy or render unusable a great deal of equipment, but considering that many of the deaths will occur post-nukes and that most "outdoor equipment" will be in rural areas away from targeted sites, the amount of such equipment available per person should be greater than it is now.

2) Someone without the appropriate gear simply isn't travelling, especially alone. You're not making a cross-country journey on foot with refilled Dasani bottles (if any are still intact) - if that is all you have, you're staying put, or travelling as a refugee group if absolutely necessary. Your gear may not be pretty or well-integrated, but it will be functional and will cover all the basics.

3) At the time the contact pack is meant to be used, survivors will have had five years to loot National Guard armories, Army/Navy stores, and sporting goods suppliers. While a refugee in the first months might be wandering around with a partial kit, at this point everyone has either assembled a functional set of survival tools... or died.

Oh, and everything I mentioned about gear applies to skills, too - the survivors 5 years in will either have had those skills to begin with, or would by necessity have acquired them in the interim. A lone, poorly equipped, unskilled traveler 5 years in would almost certainly be held in high suspicion.

[cosmicfish]

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
Too flimsy, would be very suspicious to me. Heck, they might not even exist at this point.

A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
Were they a prisoner? There are something like 10 knives for every person now, 5 years PA there should be a surfeit of knives.

the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
Plausible enough.

A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
Sure, why not.

A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
If they are near places peanuts are produced, sure... but otherwise, those peanuts would have gone bad years ago. And MP personnel don't generally know where they are being frozen.

A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.
Possibly, but it this something TMP would issue?

[kato13]

I have PET bottles I have used for 5 years. Several of which have gone through multiple freezing cycles. When the cap is tight the pressure keeps the form pretty well (air or water). That might keep them from getting crushed.

Peanuts are grown in about a third of the country
http://nationalpeanutboard.org/content/uploads/2013/01/Peanut-Country-USA_ARK_Update.jpg
That might expand after the war due to peanuts fixing nitrogen (a good replacement for fertilizer).

You could have a dozen different food types and you eat the ones that don't match the area.

I want the kit to allow for various options. The improvised knife is if you are playing someone who lost things that were more dangerous.

As to the cannabis that is exactly the point. I doesn't look like something a military person would have and it has trade value.

[cosmicfish]

I have PET bottles I have used for 5 years. Several of which have gone through multiple freezing cycles. When the cap is tight the pressure keeps the form pretty well (air or water). That might keep them from getting crushed.
That's great but that still doesn't make them a great bet. You weren't carrying them on your person in a post-apocalyptic environment. They're a bad bet to last, and anyone relying on them for water is going to stick out.

Peanuts are grown in about a third of the country
Which just means that they aren't grown in the other two thirds.

That might expand after the war due to peanuts fixing nitrogen (a good replacement for fertilizer).
In the long term, sure, but 5 years post-apocalypse they are not likely making much progress on this front. If anything, the presumption should be that agriculture as a whole is in terrible shape, not that it has expanded!

You could have a dozen different food types and you eat the ones that don't match the area.
Or you could just give them a selection of pre-war canned goods. They would still be good and you could always say you found them in some abandoned house en route.

I want the kit to allow for various options. The improvised knife is if you are playing someone who lost things that were more dangerous.
It isn't a spy kit, and MP team members don't have spy training! Making a complicated story or giving complicated options is a great way to trip someone up.

As to the cannabis that is exactly the point. I doesn't look like something a military person would have and it has trade value.
It does, but my concern is that the greatest value of this would be in sharing it... literally. Like, "let's smoke some weed together, friend!" It seems like whisky or some other potable would be easier to explain, justify, and use.

[ArmySGT.]

So what do we think makes a contact kit more realistic. practical elements and that impractical touch that spells out personal flair. A sweat shirt from the university that you attended possibly.

3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles. Sure, I used a one liter Mt Dew bottle on my mountain bike for two years. My nice water bottle was stolen off my bike and no one wanted that soda bottle.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife. I would think that every where you went would be knives of all kinds just laying on shelves or in drawers. Were you thinking of this as a weapon perhaps? A lawn mower blade made into a weapon?
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper) Phone books, catalogs went to gloss paper! Yes, finding a roll of charmin post mutual annihilation is going to ultra rare.
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat. If you have the skinning and butchering tools plus the know how to do it. Otherwise you need to have an explanation for what you traded for it.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts. Which are all over in every gas station, convenience store, grocery store, and flea market. Peanuts are dirt cheap protein and plant oils.. The shelf life sucks though because of the fats and oils.
A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe. Or raw vodka or whiskey, even some over the counter meds like valium. If the PC is willing to consume it sure. The PC might need to operate undercover and evaluate a refugee group for days to determine what aid is appropriate.

[kato13]

I had not thought of a pretty well worn bike as an option. That might make sense in some areas.

[stormlion1]

The best bet is to go with KISS. Keep it Simple Stupid! A mix of civvie and military gear. A civvie backpack, perhaps a simple rifle and pistol. Military canteen on a leather belt. Couple of military pouches and civvie clothes. Make it look like the contact person put his gear together over five years but not that it all came from one source.

[RandyT0001]

The problem really isn't the equipment carried but the fact that the contact person is going to walk into a community without knowing anything about the surrounding villages, homesteads, etc. that he would have to have travelled through to get to the community.

"How did you make it past Ashland?" asked the local, pointing down the trail, road, direction from whence he came, "Dem slavers always taking our kin. You a spy?"
Or
"You come from that way through Ashland?" asked the local. "Yeah, they got a good sheriff protecting them. He keeps the slavers out. Oh, by the way, turn around and put yer hands up, slave."

MP expects a contact person to be frozen, miss five years of changes, then wake up and interact with survivors as a fellow survivor. And not get captured or shot because the lack of knowledge raises suspicions? How badly out of touch the contact person becomes 150 years after the bombs.

What module had the contact pack? The Starnman one where the locals hate Morrow Project people because of some imposters from decades before had done bad things to them? I always had the feeling that the contact pack was included as an afterthought, following feedback from playtesters about how is a team supposed to approach the locals when all they have to wear is MP jumpsuits, unless they steal the clothes.

Just my take on it.

[ArmySGT.]

The problem really isn't the equipment carried but the fact that the contact person is going to walk into a community without knowing anything about the surrounding villages, homesteads, etc. that he would have to have travelled through to get to the community.

Realistically there is little that can be done otherwise.

There is only two solutions to using the contact pack without just walking in cold.

One is to build a hide and observe a village, camp, or group without being discovered yourself for a period of time you think is sufficient. That means around the clock 24/7 shifts in a camouflaged hide. I can think of two instances of grand scale fail for SF teams in Iraq (91) and Afghanistan (05?) that only air strikes and helo extraction saved some members. Both were uncovered by goat herders.

Second solution is to pose as someone lost or with something to trade and make contacts on the roads to get information about the local groups before contact. Combine this with signals intelligence which would have worked in the 3-5 year plan for more.

[kato13]

One is to build a hide and observe a village, camp, or group without being discovered yourself for a period of time you think is sufficient. That means around the clock 24/7 shifts in a camouflaged hide. I can think of two instances of grand scale fail for SF teams in Iraq (91) and Afghanistan (05?) that only air strikes and helo extraction saved some members. Both were uncovered by goat herders.

I have considered this. My thought was that after initial recon (satellite/balloon/rpv) looking for major settlements, the first teams to wake would be 8 sets of two man recon/sniper teams per region. A regional MH-6 team of 2 aircraft would also wake.

The aircraft (with massive sound reduction) would place the recon teams 6-8 miles from said settlement at night. 2 teams would be placed per night and they would observe for 4-5 days before being picked up. I admit this is only a raw idea and I have not researched SF insertions so I am certainly open to suggestions.

My thought is that the teams could place themselves in a position to watch main roads into the city. They could scan radio frequencies and attempt to observe things like technology levels. After the observation they could be brought in for debrief and R&R before the next mission.

At least some of the information they glean could be passed onto contact specialists. This might allow them to bluff a little better.

"Yeah I came from up North. The convoy I was in bypassed the City by the two rivers, you say it is called "Hobart", looked like an interesting place, they used windmills for something or another, I saw at least a half dozen of them."

[kalos72]

Thermal scanning for heat signatures could give rough population on the smaller towns. Even just scanning the countryside could produce alot of information.

This is VERY similar to what my team in T2K is doing as they expand.

We have thought about the "traveling merchant" approach but cant quite figure out how to make it work without getting jacked each time we roll into town. :(

[stormlion1]

Main problem with all of this is time and resources. A Morrow Team has little of both. They have what they can carry and honestly while there vehicle can keep going barring an accident they will run short of food eventually and the teams are not made of badass Special Forces. These are ordinary people given some training and let loose. There not going to have the training or time to observe a town or village, there gonna have 24-72 hours before they need to make a decision. And the only way to get that is to go in or use more direct means. Like kidnapping that sheepherder and pumping him/her for information or looking for the few merchants on the road and asking them for a lay of the land. The lovely toys like satellites and GPS just won't be there. Even Drones as small as they are today come with a price of power time before they need recharging. Make them big and they take up space needed for other gear.

[kato13]

I realize that in the game the teams don't have all the equipment and synergy that the project was designed to have, but the plan should expect things to work and should do all it can to protect its resources.

Even though I never plan my project to fail there was a game logic to my 2 man teams, it would allow for a character replacement without the team getting all the equipment from another bolthole.

[cosmicfish]

One simple tactical solution is to claim to be lost.

"We were travelling on foot with a small group from the outskirts of Big City on the way to Other Big City because of Reasons. About a week ago, our guide and a few others died due to Tragic Accident, leaving us short of equipment and with minimal guidance. We've been walking roughly Direction for the past week, but with so few of us left we've been trying to lay low and avoid contact as much as possible. Can you tell us where the <censored> we are, and maybe sell us some food?"

Regardless, we no longer seem to be talking about the actual Contact Pack.

[stormlion1]

OK, went camping this weekend with some friends and looked to see what everyone had. My buddy Gunther had a Marine Corp pack with a civvie canteen and a good sleeping bag, two days of food and one change of clothes. No tent, his wife Angie had a really old (I swear it was made in the 60's!) civvie pack with tent, bedroll, clothes, cooking gear, and a days worth of food and no canteen. Jen came with only a small pack and a bedroll and only a single days worth of food, a small two man tent and a small water bottle on a string attached to her pack. My own gear was about 60 pounds of gear and had everything but weapons. By and large that's what I expect refugees and early apocalypse survivors to scrounge up.

For the record. Solo Stove. Best buy I ever made.

[cosmicfish]

By and large that's what I expect refugees and early apocalypse survivors to scrounge up.
The Contact Pack was designed to fit in 5 years (is that the planned wake-up time?) after the war. They aren't going to be "early apocalypse survivors" at that point, they are going to be well-seasoned and equipped travelers. They could be refugees, but then the question becomes, "refugees from what?" Don't want to cause a panic as they look for pursuing invaders, or undercut your story when those invaders don't appear!

[stormlion1]

The Contact Pack was designed to fit in 5 years (is that the planned wake-up time?) after the war. They aren't going to be "early apocalypse survivors" at that point, they are going to be well-seasoned and equipped travelers. They could be refugees, but then the question becomes, "refugees from what?" Don't want to cause a panic as they look for pursuing invaders, or undercut your story when those invaders don't appear!



Yes, five years was planned wake up time. As for well seasoned and equipped I kind of doubt part of that. Most gear will be worn down with constant use and pretty patchwork and patched up. Most gear isn't all that well made afterall unless you spend a lot of money on it. Heck most common sleeping bags are rated for about 40 degree's. Not the best thing for cold winter nights unless your going to modify it somehow. A contact team that shows up with good looking gear and clothes will stick out more than a seasoned traveler with patchwork gear.

[cosmicfish]

I agree that there will be wear, but considering the relative post-apocalyptic durability of equipment compared to people, I don't think it needs to be excessive - it isn't that unreasonable to be worn but still fully functional. And more importantly, the equipment they have will be reasonably complete. As I mentioned up-thread, five years post war the vast majority of people will be where they need to be and will have little incentive to travel on foot cross-country with inadequate gear. They will either stay where they are or get a complete kit.

[RandyT0001]

Realistic contact pack

hiking boots
khaki pants
light color (white, light blue, etc.) polo shirt with embroidered logo on left chest
bright colored (red, orange, lime green, etc.) windbreaker with silkscreen logo on the left chest and silkscreen printed "Disaster Relief" or "Disaster Assesment" on the back
point and shoot digital camera
storage clipboard with extra pens and scores of claim forms
hundreds of business cards
reuseable, refillable plastic water bottle with an attached cross chest lanyard

The logos are those affliated with various insurance companies.

The contact person can now walk out of the trees and present himself as an insurance claims agent doing follow up claims from the nuclear disaster five years ago.

[stormlion1]

Realistic contact pack

hiking boots
khaki pants
light color (white, light blue, etc.) polo shirt with embroidered logo on left chest
bright colored (red, orange, lime green, etc.) windbreaker with silkscreen logo on the left chest and silkscreen printed "Disaster Relief" or "Disaster Assesment" on the back
point and shoot digital camera
storage clipboard with extra pens and scores of claim forms
hundreds of business cards
reuseable, refillable plastic water bottle with an attached cross chest lanyard

The logos are those affliated with various insurance companies.

The contact person can now walk out of the trees and present himself as an insurance claims agent doing follow up claims from the nuclear disaster five years ago.

Now that would be useful for a HILARIOUS scenario!

[WallShadow]

Now that would be useful for a HILARIOUS scenario!
<Local sheriff/magistrate/elder> An _insurance_ auditor????
<Local scout> Yeah, that's when we shot him, yer honor.:rolleyes:

[RandyT0001]

TIP

The Insurers Project

:poke:I just had to do this.

[bobcat]

for a contact pack i typically go with:
1 civilian hiking pack
1 8'x6' tarp
4 tent stakes
100' of 550 cord
2 carabiners
1 military style 1qt canteen with cup
80 beef bullion cubes
1 can opener
2 cans of soup
3 ears of corn
1 flask of whiskey
1 military poncho liner
1 multitool
1 Savage Axis .223
50 rounds of loose ammo

as for approach i would have my recon teams conduct an area recon before sending anyone to make direct contact. that way they don't send their face-man into a slaver town or worse. this would also allow them to speak with any hunting parties before entering the town to gather further valuable data.

[.45cultist]

I took the kits contents from Operation Lucifer but I admit it is a little light.

I think we could add some the following as many are pretty small (these are items in my personal equipment packs as well)

Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Knfie fork spoon
Mess Kit Bag
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Bungee Cord x 2
Shelter Half
Wool Blanket
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
Boot Knife
Swiss Army Knife
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
Magnesium Fire Starter
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
Pencil x 3
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
Personal Defense Spray
Small Sewing Kit
Pacer Beads
Mini Binoculars

You might even add a few coins or other items from the trade packs depending on the situation.

Minor details like a mix of civvie, military and Scouting stuff.

[.45cultist]

for a contact pack i typically go with:
1 civilian hiking pack
1 8'x6' tarp
4 tent stakes
100' of 550 cord
2 carabiners
1 military style 1qt canteen with cup
80 beef bullion cubes
1 can opener
2 cans of soup
3 ears of corn
1 flask of whiskey
1 military poncho liner
1 multitool
1 Savage Axis .223
50 rounds of loose ammo

as for approach i would have my recon teams conduct an area recon before sending anyone to make direct contact. that way they don't send their face-man into a slaver town or worse. this would also allow them to speak with any hunting parties before entering the town to gather further valuable data.

Some prewar hunting gear would be a nice touch for cover, until they meet lower tech survivors. My "Cooperstown" was an attempt to keep experienced PC's guessing with a 1940's-50's vibe.

[ArmySGT.]

I have got to move out west...

Season is ramping up..... Come in the end of August or first part of September and clean up at yard sales.

I have kerosene railroad lantern that I bought for $3.00 and a coleman 4 burn for $10.00.

[mikeo80]

A couple of ideas that I have used when I played "First Contact".

There was a series of courses at "Morrow U" to develop this skill set. It would have been run by someone like Les Stroud (Survivorman) or Bear Gryls. It also could be run by Wilderness S&R types.

I agree with KISS as far as contents of "contact pack" A couple of things I ALWAYS asked the TL for before heading into "Seeking new life and new civilizations." They were:
1) One or two pieces of Gold, 2 or 3 of silver
2) 1-3 bottles of booze. (I envision the Trade Pack Booze being in airplane bottles, not large liter bottles.
3) Simple Fishing Gear
4) Best Marksman is in overwatch
5) Personal radio is set for transmit only!

A side note here. Most of the pictures I have seen of TMP personnel have looked military. No Offence, just saying. SO my "Frist Contact Specialist" had long hair, beard, etc. IF you are planning The Day + 5 years, no shaving equipment is not far fetched.

My $0.02

Mike

[.45cultist]

Season is ramping up..... Come in the end of August or first part of September and clean up at yard sales.

I have kerosene railroad lantern that I bought for $3.00 and a coleman 4 burn for $10.00.

I got a nice large Coleman camp stove at a thrift store for $14! The large square 20F Coleman bag would be a good contact item, they also make nice cot mattresses in warmer climes.

[gbmaz]

Lots of good thinking about the contents and use of the Contact Pack. I am intrigued that some people find owning good camping equipment as being out of the ordinary. Living in the Rocky Mountain west it is almost assumed that you have some camping gear and probably a few guns.

I am planning to set my campaign in Rocky Mountains, starting in Colorado. Given the small number of nukes targeted for Colorado (with the exception of the Front Range) there would be lots of relatively untouched areas and the bulk of the state's population would be dead. This is a much better situation than either of the coasts or the industrial heartland.

I am planning on a 4th edition campaign, likely using the 2017 EOTWAWKI date. When I contemplate believable Contact Pack contents I picture:

Clothing is a mix of Carhartts, hunting clothes and a random mix of t-shirts. Perhaps an army jacket to mix it up.

Gear would be well used mid range backpacking gear mixed with army surplus.

Firearms would be a pistol along the lines of a Glock or some other commonly us handgun. The idea of a model 29 is a really strange and inappropriate choice. Long gun choices would be pump shotgun, .30-06 bolt action, or even a semi auto AR-15. There are huge numbers of AR-15s in private hands throughout much of the country. It would not stand out 3-5 years after the war and might help explain why the carrier had survived.

Food would be canned goods and perhaps some freeze dried meals or MREs. Lots of those around, even if they are a few years past date. They would be the items a survivor might hoard for travel or to flee from a bad situation.

Luxury items for trade or to break the ice would be chocolates, disposable razors, stale cigarettes or chewing tobacco, small bottles of hot sauce, prescription pain killers, condoms, AA batteries and duct tape.

One thing to keep in mind is that a co-ed team might do well to have a woman as the contact person, or perhaps a male female team posing as a couple. Either is likely to be perceived as less of a threat to a community than a single guy.

Perhaps a set of keys for the mythical truck that broke down 15 miles back. Maybe a broken part from said vehicle that you a hunt for a replacement for.

A saddle for the horse that you lost 3 days ago?

A battered, non working MP3 player, with a concealed transmitter.

Probably a well worn hunting knife or even a machete.

Definitely a scruffier looking team member with shaggy hair and probably a beard for the contact person. But none of that hipster BS with mutton chops and ironic handlebar mustache. Other survivors would just see shooting him as a service to good taste and the future of humanity.

[.45cultist]

The other loadouts go through updates, the contact kit would as well. Unlike the players, Project planners would know trends and what wouldn't raise eyebrows at that time. Some silver dollars and pre '64 junk silver might be a good addition to the pack as well.

[ArmySGT.]

Items from contributors to this list; minus the insurance claims adjuster.

.30-06 bolt action
8'x6' tarp
can opener
civilian hiking pack
flask of whiskey
military poncho liner
military style 1qt canteen with cup
multitool
Savage Axis .223
100' of 550 cord
1-3 bottles of booze
2 cans of soup
2 carabiners
20F Coleman bag
3 ears of corn
3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
4 tent stakes
50 rounds of loose ammo
80 beef bullion cubes
A battered, non working MP3 player, with a concealed transmitter
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
a pretty well worn bike
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
AA batteries
Bandana, Neckercheif, Red 1
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Belt, Leather 1
Boot Knife
Boots, Hiking, Leather, "Kastinger" 1 Pair
Bungee Cord x 2
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Candles
Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Carbine, Marlin 1894, Cal. 44 Magnum 1
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 30
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 50
chewing tobacco
chocolates
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
civvie backpack
coleman 4 burn
condoms
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
disposable razors
duct tape
Flask, Hip, containing Scotch 12 oz
Food, Canned 1 Days ration 3
freeze dried meals
Glock
Hat, Felt, floppy "crusher", white in color 1
Holster, Leather 1
Jacket, Denim, "Levis" 1
kerosene railroad lantern
Knfie fork spoon
large Coleman camp stove
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Magnesium Fire Starter
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Mess Kit Bag
Military canteen on a leather belt
Mini Binoculars
MREs
one liter Mt Dew bottle
One or two pieces of Gold, 2 or 3 of silver
Pacer Beads
Pack and personal items, assorted
Pack, Nylon (contents listed)
Pack, Nylon 1
Pencil x 3
Personal Defense Spray
Phone books (improvised TP)
pre '64 junk silver
prescription pain killers
pump shotgun
raw vodka or whiskey
Revolver, M-29, Cal. .44 magnum w/ 6 1/2 bbl 1
semi auto AR-15
Shell, 12 Guage 30
Shelter Half
Shirt, Work, Cotton Flannel, Plaid in color 2
Shotgun, Remington 870, 12 Guage 1
silver dollars
Simple Fishing Gear
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
skinning and butchering tools
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
small bottles of hot sauce
Small Sewing Kit
Socks, Wool 4 Pair
Solo Stove
stale cigarettes
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
sweat shirt from the university that you attended possibly
Swiss Army Knife
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
Twine
Underwear
Wool Blanket

[ArmySGT.]

The above list formated into Food, Shelter, Clothing, Tool, Weapon, Trade.

Food
Food
1-3 bottles of booze
2 cans of soup
3 ears of corn
80 beef bullion cubes
A buckskin wrap containing 14 oz of smoked dried meat.
A tupperware container filled with peanuts.
flask of whiskey
Flask, Hip, containing Scotch 12 oz
Food, Canned 1 Days ration 3
freeze dried meals
MREs

Shelter
20F Coleman bag
4 tent stakes
8'x6' tarp
Shelter Half
Wool Blanket

Clothing
military poncho liner
Bandana, Neckercheif, Red 1
Belt, Leather 1
Boots, Hiking, Leather, "Kastinger" 1 Pair
Hat, Felt, floppy "crusher", white in color 1
Holster, Leather 1
Jacket, Denim, "Levis" 1
sweat shirt from the university that you attended possibly
Underwear
Socks, Wool 4 Pair
Shirt, Work, Cotton Flannel, Plaid in color 2

Tool
100' of 550 cord
2 carabiners
3 or 4 16/20 oz soda bottles.
A battered, non working MP3 player, with a concealed transmitter
A piece of metal wrapped in duct tape for an improvised knife.
a pretty well worn bike
AA batteries
Bath Tissue 2-Ply 550sheet, Roll
Boot Knife
Bungee Cord x 2
can opener
Can Opener (P-38) x 2
Candles
Canteen 1 Liter Colapasable
Canteen 1 Liter Cover
Canteen 2 Liter
Canteen 2 Liter Cover
Canteen Cup & stand
Cigarette Lighter (Multifuel)
civilian hiking pack
civvie backpack
coleman 4 burner stove
duct tape
kerosene railroad lantern
Knfie fork spoon
large Coleman camp stove
Leather Man tool (Pliers)
Leatherman Micra (Scissors)
Lensatic Sighting Compass
Magnesium Fire Starter
Mess Kit (Stainless KFS,pan,tray)
Mess Kit Bag
Military canteen on a leather belt
military style 1qt canteen with cup
Mini Binoculars
multitool
one liter Mt Dew bottle
Pacer Beads
Pack, Nylon 1
Pencil x 3
Phone books (improvised TP)
Simple Fishing Gear
Single Edged Razor Blade x 10
skinning and butchering tools
Small Arms Cleaning Kit
Small Sewing Kit
Solo Stove
Super Glue, Tube 3g .10 oz
Swiss Army Knife
Tactical Memo Book (3.5" x 6" / 60 pages)
the last 100 pages of a paper back book. (used as toilet paper)
Twine

Weapon
.30-06 bolt action
Savage Axis .223
50 rounds of loose ammo
Carbine, Marlin 1894, Cal. 44 Magnum
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 30
Cartridge, .44 Magnum 50
Glock
Personal Defense Spray
pump shotgun
Revolver, M-29, Cal. .44 magnum w/ 6 1/2 bbl 1
semi auto AR-15
Shell, 12 Gauge 30
Shotgun, Remington 870, 12 Gauge 1

Trade
A film container containing 1/2 oz cannabis with small wood carved pipe.
chewing tobacco
chocolates
condoms
Deck of Cards (Paper Box)
Die x2
disposable razors
One or two pieces of Gold, 2 or 3 of silver
pre '64 junk silver
prescription pain killers
raw vodka or whiskey
silver dollars
small bottles of hot sauce
stale cigarettes

[ArmySGT.]

3591

[cosmicfish]

How I would go, on the assumption that the disguise is a traveler in the middle of a long trek - origin and destination both picked to be "out of range" of the local community:

Food
Nothing perishable ("holy crap, how do you have peanuts?"), nothing that would give anything away ("deer jerky?? haven't been deer around for 3 years!"). Story is that they make camp every week or so to hunt and gather, but just ran out and were looking to set up camp today anyway...

8 randomly selected cans of food, call it 4-8 days of back-up rations.
Small pot
Plate or bowl, metal or durable plastic
Cup, metal or durable plastic
Utensil set, metal or durable plastic
Can opener
Dish soap, small bottle
Bag and 50' of cord, for suspending food away from scavengers

Shelter
Sleeping bag or wool blanket, a little warmer than pre-war climate required.
Either a small tent, shelter half, or two small tarps.
Stakes and ~100ft of cord.

Clothing
Boots, combat or hiking, 1 pair
Socks, wool, 2 pair
Sock liners, poly, 4 pair
Pants, denim or canvas or BDU, 2 pair
Belt
Underpants, assorted, 4 pair
Undershirt, assorted, 4
Shirt, denim or BDU or similar, 2
Hat
Outerwear appropriate to the pre-war climate, to include at minimum a waterproof/resistant jacket, possibly sweaters or sweatshirts, and up to full cold weather gear.

Tool
Set of USGS or similar maps showing the surrounding area.
Compass
Pencils, 2-4
Book, survival, including info on edible plants
First aid kit with antiseptic and gauss bandages
Crank-powered flashlight (may include radio)
Flint and steel or other reusable firestarter
Tinder, small bag
Bic lighter or a few matches for emergency firestarter
Knife, folding or fixed, usable for butchering, camp work, and fighting
Sharpening stone
Duct tape, partial roll
Sewing kit
4 liters of durable water storage - canteens, camelbacks, Nalgene, whatever
Water purification tablets for when you can't boil
Backpack, military or civilian, external or internal
Waterproof bag for things that must stay dry
Toothbrush
Half-used bar of soap in a bag or case
Razor, whatever type the team member prefers - they need to explain being relatively well groomed!
Towel

Weapon
Pistol, semi-auto or revolver, in a standard TMP caliber
Pistol holster
Pistol ammunition (30 rounds) and magazines (2, if applicable)
Long arm, rifle or shotgun, in a standard TMP caliber
Sling
Long arm ammunition (50 rounds) and magazines (3, if applicable)

Trade - pick 3-5
Alcohol, medicinal or recreational, 12-25.6 oz
Batteries, unopened "small" pack, any size
Condoms, pack of 12
Toilet paper, 2 rolls
Hard candy, 4 oz
Hot sauce, 4 oz
Lighter fluid, 4 oz
Salt, 4 oz
Sugar, 8 oz
Thermometer and tweezers, 1 each
Underwear, 1 unopened pack of 3-4, inappropriate for bearer
Jewelry, 2-3 pieces "cheap" gold

NO:
Medicines
Drugs other than alcohol
Nothing that can easily be used as a weapon against the team


Everything in italics is picked by the Morrow crew responsible for placing the team, so whoever has the contact pack is expected to spend a little time familiarizing themselves with the contents before trying to use it. Everything else is put together by the person supposed to use it, and can be supplemented with a few items of their choice above and beyond their regular personal allotment.

[ArmySGT.]

My new candidate for a sidearm in the contact pack.

UaNoDR1MMCQ

[mmartin798]

If we assume they expected radiation, part to construct or a constructed KFM might be part of the kit.

http://web.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/112538.pdf