Manpower numbers

[antimedic]

Anyone know of a source to find divisional manpower numbers for the NATO nations in the late 80s? I can find US and WP numbers, but that's all.

[TitusPullo]

This is the only thing found sofar for the NATO forces and its only for Tanks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_tank_formations

I hope this helps some

[ArmySGT.]

Anyone know of a source to find divisional manpower numbers for the NATO nations in the late 80s? I can find US and WP numbers, but that's all.

Osprey books.

[ArmySGT.]

Ok..... The main problem for man power numbers that your looking at peace time numbers. NATO allies do not have the resources to keep large forces on hand for contingencies ..... The other thing that is going to throw you is the definitions of Squad, Section, Company, Battalion, Regiment, Divsion, Corps, and Army vary greatly.

I am hazarding a guess that most are intended to be the core cadre of rapidly fielded larger formations during a war time call up. Example, a peacetime four platoon armor company getting poached to make two or three company sized units.... dividing up the active duty among the green troops.

[RN7]

Its hard to find a precise manpower figure for division sizes in most NATO armies, mainly because the composition of divisions in different NATO armies are not the same, and many countries also keep changing the composition of divisions and their component units.

There is some information on French divisions.

Armoured Divisions (10,000 troops)
Light Armoured Divisions (7,400 troops)
Infantry Division (7,500 troops)
Airborne Division (13,500 troops)
Airmobile Division (6,000 troops)
Mountain Division (8,500 troops)
Marine Division (8,000 troops)

The French had a lot of divisions considering the relative size of their army, but French divisions were also smaller than most of other NATO armies especially compared with American, British and West German divisions.

[dragoon500ly]

As far as manpower numbers go, and this is a fair source, try "Armies of NATO'S Central Front"

France
Alpine Chasseur Battalion: 1,107 men
Reconnaissance Regiment: 800 men
Armored Regiment: 800 men
Mechanized Infantry Regiment: 1,000 men

West Germany
Panzergrenadier Company: 130 men
Panzer Company: 65 men

United Kingdom
Mechanized Infantry Battalion: 680 men
Motorized Infantry Battalion: 630 men
Light Infantry Battalion: 590 men
Armored Regiment: 583 men
Reconnaissance Regiment: 548 men
Royal Marine Commando: 800 men

Netherlands
Field Artillery Battalion: 533 men
Reconnaissance Battalion: 750 men
Armored Infantry Battalion (YPR-408): 805 men
Armored Infantry Battalion (YPR-765): 842 men
Armored Battalion: 566 men

Hope this helps!

[antimedic]

Thanks gents

[RN7]

Found some more information from IISS Military Balance 1980-81.

Based on standard unit composition. Some armies such as the British can vary upon the regiments assigned and Soviet divisions are only Category One that were based in Europe.

Armoured/Tank Division
American (18,900 men/324 tanks)
West German (17,000 men/300 tanks)
British (15,600 men/280 tanks)
Indian (15,000 men/200 tanks)
Soviet (11,000 men/335 tanks)
Chinese (9,200 men/270 tanks)

Mechanised Infantry/Motorised Rifle Division
American (18,500 men/216 tanks)
West German (17,500 men/250 tanks)
Indian (17,500 men)
Soviet (14,000 men/266 tanks)
British (13,600 men/140 tanks)
Chinese (12,700 men/30 tanks)

Airborne Division
American (16,500 men)
West German (9,000 men)
Chinese (9,000 men)
Soviet (7,000 men)

Armoured/Tank Brigade
Indian (6,000 men/150 tanks)
American (4,500 men/108 tanks)
West German (4,500 tanks/110 tanks)
British (4,000 men/140-70 tanks)
Soviet (1,300 men/95 tanks)
Chinese (1,200 men/90 tanks)

Mechanised Infantry/Motorised Rifle Brigade
West German (5,000 men/54 tanks)
American (4,800 men/54 tanks)
Indian (4,500 men)
British (4,000 men/70 tanks)
Soviet (2,300 men/40 tanks)
Chinese (2,000 men)

[antimedic]

Perfect! Thank you

[CDAT]

Found some more information from IISS Military Balance 1980-81.

Based on standard unit composition. Some armies such as the British can vary upon the regiments assigned and Soviet divisions are only Category One that were based in Europe.

Armoured/Tank Division
American (18,900 men/324 tanks)
West German (17,000 men/300 tanks)
British (15,600 men/280 tanks)
Indian (15,000 men/200 tanks)
Soviet (11,000 men/335 tanks)
Chinese (9,200 men/270 tanks)

Mechanised Infantry/Motorised Rifle Division
American (18,500 men/216 tanks)
West German (17,500 men/250 tanks)
Indian (17,500 men)
Soviet (14,000 men/266 tanks)
British (13,600 men/140 tanks)
Chinese (12,700 men/30 tanks)

Airborne Division
American (16,500 men)
West German (9,000 men)
Chinese (9,000 men)
Soviet (7,000 men)

Armoured/Tank Brigade
Indian (6,000 men/150 tanks)
American (4,500 men/108 tanks)
West German (4,500 tanks/110 tanks)
British (4,000 men/140-70 tanks)
Soviet (1,300 men/95 tanks)
Chinese (1,200 men/90 tanks)

Mechanised Infantry/Motorised Rifle Brigade
West German (5,000 men/54 tanks)
American (4,800 men/54 tanks)
Indian (4,500 men)
British (4,000 men/70 tanks)
Soviet (2,300 men/40 tanks)
Chinese (2,000 men)

Also there is some variation the first unit I was in right out of basic was an enhanced infantry brigade that was almost 8000 strong. That I know of we had two tank battalions, three infantry battalions, one artillery battalion, one support (maintenance) battalion, one engineer battalion, one bridge engineer company, one transportation company, one MASH, and brigade headquarters. This was also during the time that the Army was trying lots of different force structures.

[ArmySGT.]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/army-equipment.htm

[RN7]

Some more manpower and quipment strengths for divisions of the major powers in 1989-1990.

AIFV for the US Army is the Bradley which had replaced the M113 by this time in the regular army. Soviet AIFV depended on number of BMP regiments in each divisions. APC's are basic models with no heavy weapons larger than machine guns. Artillery includes MLR, self-propelled and towed artillery and mortars over 100mm calibre. As can be seen Chinese and French divisions are quite small.


US Armored Division
Troops: 16,800
Tanks: 348
AIFV: 216
Artillery: 117
ATGM: 168

US Mechanised Division
Troops: 17,100
Tanks: 290
AIFV: 270
Artillery: 113
ATGM: 204

Soviet Tank Division
Troops: 11,000
Tanks: 328
AIFV: 273
Artillery: 174
ATGM: 9

Soviet Motor Rifle Division (Europe)
Troops: 13,300
Tanks: 271
AIFV: 245
Artillery: 216
ATGM: 117

Soviet Motor Rifle Division (Other)
Troops: 13,300
Tanks: 220
APC: 290
Artillery: 216
ATGM: 117

Chinese Tank Division
Troops: 9,900
Tanks: 323
Artillery: 32
ATGM: 52

Chinese Infantry Division
Troops: 13,400
Tanks: 80
Artillery: 60
ATGM: 54

British Armoured Division
Troops: 14,900
Tanks: 285
AIFV: 225
Artillery: 72
ATGM: 120

British Infantry Division
Troops: 14,000
APC: 129
Artillery: 54
ATGM: 126

West German Panzer Division
Troops: 21,750
Tanks: 308
AIFV: 164
Artillery: 124
ATGM: 141

West German Panzergrenadier Division
Troops: 22,000
Tanks: 252
AIFV: 190
Artillery: 130
ATGM: 171

French Armoured Division
Troops: 9,000
Tanks: 190
AIFV: 114
Artillery: 68
ATGM: 60

French Infantry Division
Troops: 7,200
APC: 400
Artillery: 42
ATGM: 96

[chico20854]

Another collection of data points, these ones the Dutch army from 1985, courtesy orbat85.nl:

1st Division: 12285 men plus artillery, engineer, recon, air defense & MP units attached from I NL Corps.
4th Division: 12353 men plus attachments
5th Division: 12183 men plus attachments.

These are general guidelines, since as orbat85.nl (https://www.orbat85.nl/order-of-battle/royal-army/1-nl-corps/1-lk.html#corps-and-divisional-command-structure) explains:

"Although 1 (NL) Corps included three divisions, these were not fixed formations as for instance in the British or US Army. During operations Commander, 1 (NL) Corps would allocate brigades and corps level assets to the divisional staffs depending the tactical situation, reallocating them as circumstances required. The three divisional staffs thus were pure tactical headquarters, each commanding between two and five brigades and whatever units they would receive from corps level. The brigades were the main operational elements, designed to be able to operate independently for up to forty-eight hours, each having their own artillery, engineers and logistic support.8 Within this adaptable command structure the brigades were the only permanent formations, retaining their units as much as possible."