Armed vs Unarmed Melee combat

[The Dark]

Mathematically speaking, T2K v2.2 effectively has 4 damage tiers for Armed Melee combat:

Bottle: 1d6/2 (average 1.75)
Knife/Machete: 1d6 (average 3.5)
Hatchet/Club/Bayonet/Spear: 1d6 + Str/2 (average 3.5 + Str/2)
Axe: 1d6 + Str (average 3.5 + Str)

Meanwhile, Unarmed combat does Str x Unarmed, divided by 10, rounded down, minimum 1 for punches, and the same number times 1.5 for a kick. I wanted to take a look at when Unarmed becomes a better investment than armed, by weapon category.

Bottle: Damage 2 is better than bottle, so the following are better (punch/kick):
Str 2, Unarmed 10/Unarmed 5
Str 3, Unarmed 7/Unarmed 4
Str 4, Unarmed 5/Unarmed 3
Str 5 or 6, Unarmed 4/Unarmed 2
Str 7, 8, or 9, Unarmed 3/Unarmed 2
Str 10, Unarmed 2/Unarmed 1

Knife/Machete needs Damage 4:
Str 3, Not possible/Unarmed 10
Str 4, Unarmed 10/Unarmed 8
Str 5, Unarmed 8/Unarmed 6
Str 6, Unarmed 7/Unarmed 5
Str 7, Unarmed 6/Unarmed 5
Str 8 or 9, Unarmed 5/Unarmed 4
Str 10, Unarmed 4/Unarmed 3

The remainder get more complicated, since higher Str increases their damage.
Hatchet/Club/Bayonet/Spear:
Str 4, Not possible/Unarmed 10 (does 5.5 damage Armed, 6 Unarmed)
Str 5, Not possible/Unarmed 10 (does 6.5 damage Armed, 8 Unarmed)
Str 6, Not possible/Unarmed 9 (does 6.5 damage Armed, 8 Unarmed)
Str 7, Not possible/Unarmed 8 (does 7.5 damage Armed, 8 Unarmed)
Str 8, Unarmed 10/Unarmed 7 (does 7.5 damage Armed, 8 Unarmed)
Str 9, Unarmed 10/Unarmed 7 (does 8.5 damage Armed, 9 Unarmed)
Str 10, Unarmed 9/Unarmed 6 (does 8.5 damage Armed, 9 Unarmed)

Axe: Nobody can do more damage unarmed than their average damage armed with an axe.

Note that this only looks at damage and ignores the hit bonus for knife, machete, or bayonet. Bayonets are really good, since they're the only weapon with a Str boost and an attack bonus. While the Axe is powerful, the -2 to strike makes it hard to use effectively.

I also haven't looked in depth at the additional weapons added in TNE. Quite a few are similar to existing weapons, but there are some that get 2d6 base damage (sword and cutlass get 2d6, broadsword gets 2d6 + Str/2, and battle axe and halberd get 2d6 + Str). Cutlass is notable for having +1 to hit and an average damage of 7, and halberd for being 2d6 + Str without a hit penalty.

[swaghauler]

I use a VERY modified system using both "wound damage" (killing) and "stun damage" (for incapacitation) for my game. It is a morphing of the base Twilight2000 system with Hero Game's stun system. Hero Games has one of the best "non-lethal" damage systems ever conceived and it was quite easy to integrate it into my game.

HTH COMBAT:

I figure the character's base damage just like the basic game by multiplying STR X Skill Level/10. This gives a number that is compared to the chart below to give you a character's base damage IN DICE (NOT POINTS). A punch does #D6 dice of STUN damage and a kick does #D10 dice of STUN damage. The Penetration Rating for a punch is 4 and it is 3 Pen for a kick. Every 5 FULL POINTS of BASE (the initially rolled) Stun Damage equals 1 POINT of KILLING Damage (wound damage).
The Stun Damage that the target actually takes is modified by the location struck. The following Stun Multipliers are applied by the location hit. They are:
Head: 2 X Base Stun
Chest: 1 X Base Stun
Abdomen: 1.5 X Base Stun
Extremities: 1/2 X Base Stun

This damage creates the equivalent of "fatigue levels" or "virtual damage" like the Virtual Damage used in TW2K13. A character's Stun Damage Thresholds are determined by adding STR & CON together. A character with a STR 5 and CON 5 would have:
Light Stun Wound: 10
Moderate Stun Wound: 20
Serious Stun Wound: 30
Critical Stun Wound: 40
Deadly Stun Wound: 50

The penalties are identical to real Wound Thresholds but will dissipate with rest. A Deadly Stun Wound renders you unconscious. Lingering Stun damage becomes Fatigue (I use TW2K13 Fatigue rules) until you rest. The actual Wound Damage inflicted must heal just like knife or bullet wounds.

MELEE COMBAT:

Within their range, most melee weapons are EVERY BIT AS DANGEROUS AS FIREARMS. The base game "makes light" of these weapons by giving them a generally lower damage than firearms. I have seen cases of people disemboweled and even dismembered by ordinary kitchen knives and wood cutting axes. They can be EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE when used as weapons. To model this, I change how melee weapon damage is determined in the game. Damage from melee weapons is figured just like HTH Damage with the exception that different melee weapons will use different damage dice. You simply substitute Melee Skill for HTH Skill when consulting the Damage Chart. Different weapons will also have differing Penetrations and Stun Multipliers (for determining how much Stun Damage they inflict).

Typical Damage Dice, Pen, & Stun Multipliers For Melee Weapons:

Any knife Under 4": Dice= #D3 (or 1D4), Pen= 1, Stun= X1/2, Parry= Formidable
Axe Wood/Fireman's: Dice= #D10, Pen=2, Stun X2, Parry= Difficult
Bayonet/Combat Knife: Dice= #D6, Pen= 1, Stun= X1/2, Parry= Difficult
Machette: Dice= #D6 (or 1D8), Pen=2, Stun= X1, Parry= Average
Tomahawk/Hatchet: Dice= #D6 (or 1D8), Pen= 2, Stun= X1, Parry= Difficult
Spear/Bayonet (mounted): Dice= #D6 Pen= 1/2, Stun= X1/2, Parry= Average
Long Sword: Dice= #D10, Pen=2, Stun X1, Parry= Average
Entrenching Tool: Dice= #D6, Pen= 2, Stun= X2, Parry= Average
Baseball Bat: Dice= #D6, Pen= 4, Stun= X3, Parry= Average
Police Baton: Dice= #D3 (or 1D4), Pen= 4, Stun= X3, Parry= Average
Hammer: Dice=#D6, Pen= 3, Stun X4, Parry= Difficult

These are just some examples of melee weapons and I am seriously considering including the other dice (D4, D8, D12) in game in order to give a wider range of damages for all weapons.


Armor absorbs just like ballistic armor, reducing Damage Dice just like it works with firearms.

HTH & MELEE DAMAGE CHART:
STR X Skill/10; ................ Damage Dice:
Less Than 1: ........................ 1 Die
1 to 2: ................................. 2 Dice
2 to 4: ................................. 3 Dice
5 to 7: ................................. 4 Dice
8 to 9: ................................. 5 Dice
10: ...................................... 6 Dice

[James Langham2]

You might want to have a look at my article on unarmed combat, I found the same problem

[swaghauler]

You might want to have a look at my article on unarmed combat, I found the same problem

It took me while to find it. I see we follow the same mindset. We need a "House Rules Section" where you can just post stuff by topic. The thread map isn't bad but Search will sometimes fail you or generate such a large return you cannot read it all in the time you have to read stuff.

That being said, I STILL give KATO two thumbs up for his good work managing this forum (but we still need a LIKE Button).

[The Dark]

You might want to have a look at my article on unarmed combat, I found the same problem

I'm guessing you weighted striking slightly more heavily than grappling/escaping? I notice that the top four styles by net bonus are Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and Military Sambo, which are all grapple oriented (only Sambo has a bonus to Punch, all of them except Sambo have a penalty to kick, and all have bonuses to both grapple and escape). Meanwhile, the five with the largest net penalty are Tae Kwon Do, Fairburn, Savate, Karate, and Muay Thai, all of which are strike-oriented (Savate and Karate are plus in both punch and strike, the other three are all plus in one or the other, and other than Fairburn they're all negative in grapple). The only striking style with more than +1 net is Krav Maga.

[James Langham2]

I'm guessing you weighted striking slightly more heavily than grappling/escaping? I notice that the top four styles by net bonus are Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, and Military Sambo, which are all grapple oriented (only Sambo has a bonus to Punch, all of them except Sambo have a penalty to kick, and all have bonuses to both grapple and escape). Meanwhile, the five with the largest net penalty are Tae Kwon Do, Fairburn, Savate, Karate, and Muay Thai, all of which are strike-oriented (Savate and Karate are plus in both punch and strike, the other three are all plus in one or the other, and other than Fairburn they're all negative in grapple). The only striking style with more than +1 net is Krav Maga.

ACtually, personally I favor grapples and throws having done Jui-Jitsu however that is more to do with my personal preference for a defensive style.

In game terms I wanted a slight differentiation in styles but nothing over the top like some RPGs. While there are slight benefits to certain styles, I think they are roughly equal as some of the methods will be rarely used in play. I initially tried to have all as a net zero but couldn't get certain styles to fit and it became obvious that certain styles while looking balanced on paper would not be in game usage. I would welcome any thoughts anyone has re the balance of the styles.

[.45cultist]

It took me while to find it. I see we follow the same mindset. We need a "House Rules Section" where you can just post stuff by topic. The thread map isn't bad but Search will sometimes fail you or generate such a large return you cannot read it all in the time you have to read stuff.

That being said, I STILL give KATO two thumbs up for his good work managing this forum (but we still need a LIKE Button).

Yay! I'm already using some of your stuff.

[The Dark]

ACtually, personally I favor grapples and throws having done Jui-Jitsu however that is more to do with my personal preference for a defensive style.I'm similar personally (I've done both Tae Kwon Do and Aikikai). As someone who's slightly shorter than average and with a heavy frame, I don't have the quickness to really be good at a striking style, but I was fairly competent in close with joint manipulation and throws.

In game terms I wanted a slight differentiation in styles but nothing over the top like some RPGs. While there are slight benefits to certain styles, I think they are roughly equal as some of the methods will be rarely used in play. I initially tried to have all as a net zero but couldn't get certain styles to fit and it became obvious that certain styles while looking balanced on paper would not be in game usage. I would welcome any thoughts anyone has re the balance of the styles.I pretty much agree, since I think most people would be inclined to strike first (it's simpler and has the apparent advantage of doing immediate damage), so bonuses or penalties to the punch and kick side of the skill have a magnified effect due to their higher use rate. Block would probably be the next most used, with grapple and escape moderately common, probably along with throw. Diving blow and headbutt I would think are the least used, since headbutt is harder, less damaging, and has backlash damage.

[The Dark]

You might want to have a look at my article on unarmed combat, I found the same problem

One art I'd like to see added if you do any revising is gatka, a northwestern Indian art generally associated by Westerners with Sikhs. It was one of the bases for Fairbairn-Sykes Close Quarter Combat. Tentatively, I'd suggest a modifier line of +1/0/-1/+1/-2/0/-2/+1, with the ability to use knife or sword with the same skill.

[James Langham2]

One art I'd like to see added if you do any revising is gatka, a northwestern Indian art generally associated by Westerners with Sikhs. It was one of the bases for Fairbairn-Sykes Close Quarter Combat. Tentatively, I'd suggest a modifier line of +1/0/-1/+1/-2/0/-2/+1, with the ability to use knife or sword with the same skill.

Thanks, not comeacross that one and it might tie in with the Sikh unit proposed for Charles III to sponser

[The Dark]

Thanks, not comeacross that one and it might tie in with the Sikh unit proposed for Charles III to sponser

I actually found it because of the mention of the Sikh unit. I vaguely remembered mention of a martial art that was fairly common among the Sikhs from some reading I had been doing about the British East India Company, and poking around a bit, found a description of gatka that mentioned its influence on Fairbairn-Sykes, so I used that as a base with a couple changes (gatka was also used by Hindus, some of whom were kick-focused to avoid touching lower castes with their hands, which is why kick was raised slightly, etc).

[The Dark]

Another idea that popped into my head because the "MMA has no mods" was bothering me:

To develop a fictional or syncretic martial art style, roll 1d10 for each of Punch, Kick, Headbutt, Grapple, Block, Escape, Diving Blow, and Throw.

DM Modifiers:
Hard Style: +1 to Punch, Kick, Block, -1 to Grapple, Escape, Throw
Soft Style: +1 to Grapple, Escape, Throw, -1 to Punch, Kick, Block

Die roll result:
0: -3 to skill
1: -2 to skill
2-3: -1 to skill
4-7: no modifier
8-9: +1 to skill
10-11: +2 to skill

I deliberately did not put +3 to skill on the chart, so that these styles won't end up with better modifiers than existing styles.

[pmulcahy11b]

Hmmm...I wonder if GURPS Martial Arts has anything translatable...need to look...:dead:

[The Dark]

I decided to run an analysis on the existing martial arts styles in James' documentand see how to weight the various categories to minimize the difference between the "best" and "worst" art and minimize the standard deviation, then use that information to create a point buy system for new martial arts, as a supplement to the random system I proposed before.

My methodology was to take the bonuses and penalties for each martial art except for Mixed Martial Arts (which had no modifiers), sum the modifiers, then look at the mean, standard deviation, and the spread between minimum and maximum of the sums. Once I had done this, I started varying the weight of each maneuver with an eye towards minimizing the standard deviation and the spread.

To create a new martial art: Roll 2d6-7 and divide by 2 for the number of points available to spend. A martial art may have negative points and/or half points, with a range of -2.5 to 2.5 and an average of 0.


Points spent or refunded per plus or minus (maximum modifier +/- 3):
Punch: 2
Kick: 0.5
Headbutt: 0.5
Grapple: 0.5
Block: 0.5
Escape: 0.5
Diving Blow: 1.5
Throw: 1

With these weights, the mean is 0.25, standard deviation is 1.74, and spread is 5.5. All of the existing martial arts fit into the -2.5 to 2.5 range except for Sport Sambo and Sumo, both of which are at -3 and should possibly receive minor boosts.

The high-value martial arts are the two Kung Fus, Military Sambo, and Wrestling, all of which are at 2.5. Low-value martial arts are the previously mentioned Sport Sambo and Sumo at -3, along with Taekwondo and Judo at -2.

[James Langham]

I decided to run an analysis on the existing martial arts styles in James' documentand see how to weight the various categories to minimize the difference between the "best" and "worst" art and minimize the standard deviation, then use that information to create a point buy system for new martial arts, as a supplement to the random system I proposed before.

My methodology was to take the bonuses and penalties for each martial art except for Mixed Martial Arts (which had no modifiers), sum the modifiers, then look at the mean, standard deviation, and the spread between minimum and maximum of the sums. Once I had done this, I started varying the weight of each maneuver with an eye towards minimizing the standard deviation and the spread.

To create a new martial art: Roll 2d6-7 and divide by 2 for the number of points available to spend. A martial art may have negative points and/or half points, with a range of -2.5 to 2.5 and an average of 0.


Points spent or refunded per plus or minus (maximum modifier +/- 3):
Punch: 2
Kick: 0.5
Headbutt: 0.5
Grapple: 0.5
Block: 0.5
Escape: 0.5
Diving Blow: 1.5
Throw: 1

With these weights, the mean is 0.25, standard deviation is 1.74, and spread is 5.5. All of the existing martial arts fit into the -2.5 to 2.5 range except for Sport Sambo and Sumo, both of which are at -3 and should possibly receive minor boosts.

The high-value martial arts are the two Kung Fus, Military Sambo, and Wrestling, all of which are at 2.5. Low-value martial arts are the previously mentioned Sport Sambo and Sumo at -3, along with Taekwondo and Judo at -2.

I love the mathematical analysis, I'm not surprised at the low value of Sumo or sport sambo in game terms. I am surprised wrestling comes out so well. I suppose though the relative weighting is the only subjective. I am working on expanding the article and would value others opinions as to the over/under rated plus any missing martial arts.

[The Dark]

I love the mathematical analysis, I'm not surprised at the low value of Sumo or sport sambo in game terms. I am surprised wrestling comes out so well. I suppose though the relative weighting is the only subjective. I am working on expanding the article and would value others opinions as to the over/under rated plus any missing martial arts.

In addition to gatka (mentioned earlier in the thread), styles of interest to me would include bartitsu and pankration, Filipino martial arts (such as panununtukan, eskrima, and sikaran), plus (since the Bangkok book exists), styles players could encounter in SEA such as silat, pradal serey, l'bokator, lethwei, naban, and bando.

I kept a spreadsheet with my math, so I could analyze proposed changes to the values.

[James Langham]

In addition to gatka (mentioned earlier in the thread), styles of interest to me would include bartitsu and pankration, Filipino martial arts (such as panununtukan, eskrima, and sikaran), plus (since the Bangkok book exists), styles players could encounter in SEA such as silat, pradal serey, l'bokator, lethwei, naban, and bando.

I kept a spreadsheet with my math, so I could analyze proposed changes to the values.

Interesingly we must think on the same lines as the first three are already added.

[The Dark]

Interesingly we must think on the same lines as the first three are already added.

When you get ready to release the new document, I have a pair of possible revisions that I noticed. First, Muay Thai only has a "3" under kick rather than "+3". It's clear what it should be if one is familiar with Muay Thai, but it doesn't hurt to fix it. Second, and this may be a difference between dialects that I'm not familiar with, but I've always seen "headbutt" with two t's, whereas the document has "headbut".

Finally, I thought of another style to add - Wushu would be useful since it's the culturally approved form of martial arts in the PRC. Possibly some of the other 20th-century Chinese styles like Hung Ga or Eagle Claw would find use in campaigns as well.

[pmulcahy11b]

DM Modifiers:
Hard Style: +1 to Punch, Kick, Block, -1 to Grapple, Escape, Throw
Soft Style: +1 to Grapple, Escape, Throw, -1 to Punch, Kick, Block


How would you handle something like Hapkido, which concentrates on both punching and grappling?

[James Langham]

When you get ready to release the new document, I have a pair of possible revisions that I noticed. First, Muay Thai only has a "3" under kick rather than "+3". It's clear what it should be if one is familiar with Muay Thai, but it doesn't hurt to fix it. Second, and this may be a difference between dialects that I'm not familiar with, but I've always seen "headbutt" with two t's, whereas the document has "headbut".

Finally, I thought of another style to add - Wushu would be useful since it's the culturally approved form of martial arts in the PRC. Possibly some of the other 20th-century Chinese styles like Hung Ga or Eagle Claw would find use in campaigns as well.

Thanks, will change.

[James Langham]

How would you handle something like Hapkido, which concentrates on both punching and grappling?

Straight no modifiers or a couple of +1s and a couple of -1s in things like kick and head but.

[James Langham]

Revised version of the unarmed combat rules with a nice shiny cover!

[The Dark]

Something I just noticed - as a former (low-level) practitioner of both, I'm not certain I'd have Karate have a higher kick modifier than Tae Kwon Do. TKD has more of an emphasis on swift and high kicks, with a narrow stance to increase speed, while karate tends to use a wider stance to emphasize stability and more of a balance between hand and foot strikes.

[rcaf_777]

No Krav Maga?

[The Dark]

No Krav Maga?

Other than the listing for Krav Maga between Kick Boxing and Kung Fu (Northern Style)?

(edit: this came off a bit snarkier than I intended - it was meant to be a bit of a playful pointing-out that it is in the document)

[Targan]

Something I just noticed - as a former (low-level) practitioner of both, I'm not certain I'd have Karate have a higher kick modifier than Tae Kwon Do.

100% agree. TKD is all about the kicking (to the detriment of other aspects unfortunately).

[The Dark]

One other "weapon" that might be worth adding is a sap glove, the kind with powdered metal over the fingers and sometimes the whole back of the hand. They should probably be a bit of a weaker form of the brass knuckles - possibly +1 to STR and halve damage from hitting armor, but with a -1 penalty to DEX tasks instead of them being impossible.

[swaghauler]

We are now test playing a rules variant that makes Parrying a Skill-Based system. When you roll for a Parry, you record how far UNDER the needed target number you rolled (ie if you need a 12 and roll a 9, you are 3 under). This number is added to 1 (for a successful roll) to determine the number of DAMAGE DICE your parry deflected. So the roll above would deflect 4 DICE of Damage. Any remaining Damage will "pass through" the Defender's Parry and cause damage appropriately. This means that the more difficult to parry with weapons (like small knives) also won't stop as much damage as the larger (and easier to parry with) weapons.

Shields:

Whether improvised or actual shields, the following categories describe game shields.

Bucklers: This includes Bracers as well as small "improvised" parrying devices (like a huge beer stein). This device only protects the forearm during @Passive Warding (10 or less on an Arm hit). *Parry: Fairly Difficult (Skill X 0.75).

Small Shields: This includes most Shields that can cover the Arm and ONE additional location (10 or less) when @Warding. Small shields include garbage can lids (ala Escape From New York). Parry: Average (Skill X 1).

Medium Shields: This is the typically sized Greek or Medieval Shield which will @Ward the Arm and EITHER ONE Additional Location (19 or less) OR TWO Additional Locations (at 10 or less) in a fight. The choice to Ward One or Two locations is made by the Defender. Parry: Routine (Skill X1.5).

Large Shields: This is typical of a Spartan Shield or a modern-day Riot Shield. It can @Passively Ward the Arm and ONE location totally (19 or less), and TWO additional locations partially (10 or less). Parry: Easy (Skill X 2).

Very Large Shield: This is typical of a Mantlet, Roman Scutum, or a Large Riot Shield. It will @Passively Ward up to five locations. It will totally cover (19 or less) the Arm AND TWO Locations and partially cover an ADDITIONAL TWO Locations (10 or less). Parry: Easy (Skill X 2).

@Passive Warding: This is when you simply hold a shield to cover a location WITHOUT actively parrying with that shield. The numbers listed in parentheses are the chance that the attack will hit the shield instead.

*Fairly Difficult: This is a new Skill Difficulty Level that we have begun to use in our most recent games. As we constantly shift Difficulty Levels in response to modifiers during play (ie Target Movement, Lighting or any other modifier that will reduce the chance of success), we have more of them than the RAW Twilight2000 used. This brings our Skill Difficulty Ratings up to:

Very Easy: (Skill X 3)
Easy: (Skill X2)
Routine: (Skill X 1.5)
Average: (Skill x 1)
Fairly Difficulty: (Skill X 0.75)
Difficult: (Skill X 0.5)
Formidable: (Skill X 0.25)
Impossible: (Skill X 0.1)

[swaghauler]

As I have stated before, I use a Skill System that is a TW2K13/V2.2 hybrid system. I use the TW2K13 QUALIFICATIONS system due to its elegance in expanding the Skill List without creating a huge "Skill Tree." For those who are unfamiliar with Qualifications, they are essentially a "Skill within a Skill." You buy them just like other Skills but they are limited by the "Parent Skill" that they originate from. For example, ALL Surgeons are Doctors BUT NOT ALL Doctors are Surgeons. Some other examples of Qualifications include:

-The Heavy Qualification (over 5-ton) of Wheeled Vehicle Driver.
-The Rebreather Qualification of Scuba.
-The Hacking Qualification of Computer Ops.
-The Remote & Multi-Engine Qualifications of Pilot.
-The EOD & Warhead Qualifications of Demolitions.

I also have Qualifications for Hand-To-Hand Combat. Those Qualifications include Wrestling, Boxing, and Martial Arts. While some of the Qualifications do allow you to do more damage than HTH, I was thinking of adding in some Special Techniques like Blind Fighting, Instant Stand, Powerful Blow, or pain Compliancy Hold. These Special Techniques (of which I have compiled roughly a dozen general Techniques) would add a bit of variety to HTH Combat.

My idea would be to allow a player to select ONE Special Technique for each Level of Skill in a Qualification above 0 (which is essentially "familiarization" of a Skill). That Special Technique would start at a Skill level 0 ("familiarization") and advance in Level as the Qualification advances. Thus a person with a Qualification of 4 in Boxing could have up to 4 Special Techniques with a Skill Level of 0 thru 3, depending on the order they were taken in. The fighter would use the Technique's Skill Level when attempting it and each different Qualification would have 3-5 (1D3+2) Techniques to choose from. This would allow you to emulate the Techniques of various Martial Arts such as Aikido, Boxing, Karate, and Judo.

Has anyone else ever experimented with adding Special Maneuvers or Techniques to Twilight2000?

[The Dark]

We are now test playing a rules variant that makes Parrying a Skill-Based system. When you roll for a Parry, you record how far UNDER the needed target number you rolled (ie if you need a 12 and roll a 9, you are 3 under). This number is added to 1 (for a successful roll) to determine the number of DAMAGE DICE your parry deflected. So the roll above would deflect 4 DICE of Damage. Any remaining Damage will "pass through" the Defender's Parry and cause damage appropriately. This means that the more difficult to parry with weapons (like small knives) also won't stop as much damage as the larger (and easier to parry with) weapons.

I like the idea of different shields having varying levels of protection. For people using the book damage system, I think a fair substitute would be for each point of success to absorb 2 points of damage (equivalent to parenthetical AV (1) from TNE).

[swaghauler]

I like the idea of different shields having varying levels of protection. For people using the book damage system, I think a fair substitute would be for each point of success to absorb 2 points of damage (equivalent to parenthetical AV (1) from TNE).

The system for shields above is the percentage of the location covered if you PASSIVELY WARD that location without actively parrying. I didn't list any AVs because they vary so greatly from object to object.

Active Parries:

Actively parrying takes an ACTION@ to do and the reason the system drops damage dice based on the skill roll is due to the fact that a skilled defender can greatly reduce damage using even a makeshift device to partially deflect a blow.
For an example of an ACTIVE PARRY: Jason Bourne grabs the local phonebook which is approximately 1" thick and made of bound paper. His assailant is armed with an 8" butcher knife and attempts to stab him. Jason expertly deflects the knife by striking the "flat" of the blade with the phone book's spine or by striking his attacker's wrist (also using the spine). The knife may leave a "gash" in the phonebook's spine but is completely deflected.

Passive Warding:

Passive warding takes no @ACTIONS and the player must specify what locations his character is Warding. If the location is hit, the "Shield" protects on the Warding Roll or lower. The AV depends on the "shield" being used.
For an example of a PASSIVE WARD: Jason Bourne holds the phonebook from the previous example in front of him to Ward his head. This book as an AV of (2)... the parenthesis indicating the number of POINTS (not Dice) of Damage the book will absorb. His attacker rolls his attack and succeeds. He hits Jason in the head. On a roll of 10 or less, the book will absorb 2 points of Damage from his attacker's Damage roll.

This is the difference between Parrying and Warding.

@ = I am now using a simplified "ACTIONS" system where each action represents 1 Second's worth of activity. Each SECOND in a combat round is roughly equal to an Initiative Step. Various activities can take different numbers of ACTIONS. To determine the number of ACTIONS each character gets during a combat round, follow the steps below:

1) Roll 1D6 and add this to the Character's Initiative Score (giving a total from 2-12).
2) Subtract any modifiers from this total for things like Fatigue and Wounds.
3) Divide the remaining total by 2 and ALWAYS ROUND UP. This is the number of ACTIONS that the character has for that round. Each ACTION is 1 Second AND 1 Initiative STEP.

EXAMPLE: Joe has a 4 Initiative and rolls a 3 for a total score of 7. He is Lightly Wounded (-1) and now has a total score of 6. Dividing 6 by 2 equals 3. Joe has 3 ACTIONS for this combat round. I would give Joe three poker chips and he would surrender them as he performed his actions in the various Initiative Steps.

[Vespers War]

Hmmm...I wonder if GURPS Martial Arts has anything translatable...need to look...:dead:

The one I've been looking at recently to try to convert over is Hero Fifth Edition's Ultimate Martial Artist. I need to finish doing some conversion factors first, then sit down with the book and figure out how its math works.

[swaghauler]

The one I've been looking at recently to try to convert over is Hero Fifth Edition's Ultimate Martial Artist. I need to finish doing some conversion factors first, then sit down with the book and figure out how its math works.

Hero's system should be fairly easy for someone with your game-system knowledge to convert.