Question on future new modules/sourcebooks

[Olefin]

There has been considerable debate on a facebook forum raised by a few people who have said that they consider the new releases not be up to the standard of the original GDW releases due to the lack of artwork in them.

That they considered that lack to be a reason to not even consider buying them as the artwork was the reason that they had originally loved the game and that without it that the new modules had somehow debased the expected level of what a Twilight 2000 canon work should be.

I would like to hear from those hear on this forum what they think about that as to where we go with new releases. Neither Raellus or I are artists - we are writers and designers foremost and used photos to tell our story as we dont have access to the artistic talent that GDW had back in the 80's and 90's. Also we dont have the budgets to be able to pay for artwork as GDW did and we both did the best we could with our two releases.

Personally for me while the artwork was amazing I played the game and bought the modules and sourcebooks for their content and not their artwork.

Not looking for comment on what we have released but looking for input as to what people are expecting in the future.

There are a couple of people who have reached out to me and Raellus about possibly doing artwork - one who wanted a very large fee (which is not something either of us can afford) and one who was willing to do so for free.

Is there any strong feeling one way or another about whether or not there is artwork in new releases for the game or is content and storytelling what you are looking for?

[Ewan]

Artwork is fine if it backs up the narrative but if is just pictures to cover up space or to fill pages why bother. I would rather have meaty content and few pictures than poor content with lots of pictures.
As for the GDW releases of the 80s and 90s the covers were excellent (Pirates of the Vistula being my favourite) but the interior drawings were at times lacking.

[Draq]

No art is better than poor art. use your imagination if you need pictures... These works are just as good as the original material, with or without art. Besides I farm images from tons of sources for use in my campaigns.

[Olefin]

Keep in mind that pictures we use have to be ones that can be used for works that are for sale. Thats one reason that the fan canon free works can use pictures that we cant use if we make ones for sale. Same goes for artwork - it has to be free of use for us to use. And looking at what Marc Miller posted at his site the old GDW T2K art is most likely off limits as to using it.

FYI just to give you an example of what I mean by the scale of what the original games had to use as resources versus what Raellus and I had

Red Star Lone Star - Design: William H. Keith, Jr. Development - Loren Wiseman & Frank Chadwick Art Director - Rich Banner Associate Art Director - Barbie Pratt Interior Illustrations -Steve Venters, Tim Bradstreet and Liz Danforth Cover - Steve Venters

Rooks' Gambit - Raellus

East Africa Sourcebook - me (with credit to Raellus and a couple of others including Frank Frey for info here that was discussed years ago that I incorporated into the book)

[Benjamin]

Art's fine but public domain maps, location shots and weapon systems are better. If it's not artsy enough for some people, run through a filter. My biggest beef was that it looks like it was put together on Word without much thought towards ascetics. They need a unifying artistic look and some of the cover dressing that other T2K works used.

To be honest, I really liked Kenya sourcebook but didn't buy Rook's Gambit. I just don't need adventures. Sorry.

Benjamin

[Olefin]

Actually it was put together on Word. I dont have InDesign or some of the other publishing software out there mainly because its close to 20 a month and this is something I do because I love the game and want to get new official material out there.

I originally did have the Twilight 2000 logo on the cover but Marc told me to take it off - have to ask him but not sure if he owns the rights to the logo (FFE site does mention that they only have the rights to a few pieces of the artwork and not sure there).

Marc did send me a template that I may use for future works that will allow the PDF to be a POD (print on demand) and has a template for photoshop cover - will look into it for sure

[Draq]

Actually it was put together on Word. I dont have InDesign or some of the other publishing software out there mainly because its close to 20 a month and this is something I do because I love the game and want to get new official material out there.

I originally did have the Twilight 2000 logo on the cover but Marc told me to take it off - have to ask him but not sure if he owns the rights to the logo (FFE site does mention that they only have the rights to a few pieces of the artwork and not sure there).

Marc did send me a template that I may use for future works that will allow the PDF to be a POD (print on demand) and has a template for photoshop cover - will look into it for sure

The material is what caused these works to be adopted as canon and sold with the originals... Not the format or (lack of) art... Keep up the great work boys.

[Adm.Lee]

No art is better than poor art. use your imagination if you need pictures... These works are just as good as the original material, with or without art. Besides I farm images from tons of sources for use in my campaigns.

What he said. I'm fine with the public-domain photos, but what I really want (in adventures) are maps!

[kato13]

I am pretty sure that Open street map can be used in commercial products as long as it is attributed.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Use_Cases#Using_OSM_data_in_a_raster_map_for_a_boo k.2C_newsletter.2C_website.2C_blog_or_similar_work

Not an attorney but they are certainly worth a look.

I might be able to make unit location maps using the openstreet map as the base. I built the font for mapping units and I would certainly give you permission to use it. If you are interested maybe pm me. No promises, my code is years old and may not still work, but it might be a nice addition.

[Olefin]

definitely interested in that Kato

[pmulcahy11b]

I am pretty sure that Open street map can be used in commercial products as long as it is attributed.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Use_Cases#Using_OSM_data_in_a_raster_map_for_a_boo k.2C_newsletter.2C_website.2C_blog_or_similar_work

Not an attorney but they are certainly worth a look.

I might be able to make unit location maps using the openstreet map as the base. I built the font for mapping units and I would certainly give you permission to use it. If you are interested maybe pm me. No promises, my code is years old and may not still work, but it might be a nice addition.

I need an open street map for the past -- like about 1995 or so. I'm going nuts (no pun intended) trying to find detailed street and topographical maps for South Texas in that time period!

[Olefin]

Thats a common problem - i.e. how much areas have changed since 1995 - if you use a current map it most likely is way out of date for that area when the game time period actually happened - especially in Poland and Germany - lots of change in those areas since the Cold War

[kato13]

I need an open street map for the past -- like about 1995 or so. I'm going nuts (no pun intended) trying to find detailed street and topographical maps for South Texas in that time period!


For the US the USGS has and archive that is available and I believe (again not a lawyer) that as a product of the US government they are free to use (just like the HMMWV and the Nuke pic on the top of this site)

http://historicalmaps.arcgis.com/usgs/

I checked for Chicago and they have 14 different historical topographical maps for chicago/chicago loop going back to 1890.

[ArmySGT.]

Some or most of the original art of the box set was traced from real photos.

I have seen the persons on the box in photos from Viet Nam, Grenada, and Panama, in addition too Reforger.

[Raellus]

I think that most of us who grew up with T2K, have a nostalgic appreciation for the interior artwork but, objectively-speaking, most of it's rather bad.

I'd love to have had an art budget, and been able to hire some artists to illustrate Rook's Gambit, but I didn't. The whole team- concept, writing, design, illustration, etc.- was just me, myself, and I, working in my time off from my rather demanding full-time job. I did the best I could with what I could find. Images on the interwebs labelled for reuse are fewer and lower in quality (and relevance) than what comes up without a filtered image search. I wanted to use a couple of diagrams of Malbork castle that I found in an online scholarly journal but the organization wouldn't give me permission to do so.

[ArmySGT.]

as a source, DeviantArt has artists that work commissions.

DeviantArt (https://www.deviantart.com/today/)

I suppose there is the option to sell a with art and without art versions.. Art, of course, being more expensive and a better PDF or paper edition.

[Raellus]

Yeah, that'd be cool and all, but most fan-authors like myself don't have the budget to buy original art for our works.

[stg58fal]

If you're not doing it for profit, you could probably* do what I'm doing for a project I've been working on, and just use whatever art you find online. Pinterest and Deviantart are great sources for all kinds of pictures/artwork. Just Google whatever it is you want, then click the "Images" tab at the top, and away you go. You'll most likely have to click the pictures and go to whatever site they're on in order to get something with good size/quality, but that's what Right Click, "Open in New Tab" is for. :D

* I'm not making something for sale, or most likely even for public consumption, just for my gaming group.

[ArmySGT.]

If you're not doing it for profit, you could probably* do what I'm doing for a project I've been working on, and just use whatever art you find online. Pinterest and Deviantart are great sources for all kinds of pictures/artwork. Just Google whatever it is you want, then click the "Images" tab at the top, and away you go. You'll most likely have to click the pictures and go to whatever site they're on in order to get something with good size/quality, but that's what Right Click, "Open in New Tab" is for. :D

* I'm not making something for sale, or most likely even for public consumption, just for my gaming group.

His book is for sale.

[ArmySGT.]

Yeah, that'd be cool and all, but most fan-authors like myself don't have the budget to buy original art for our works.

Your option. There is hundreds of artists there and you are able to look at their work then make an offer. commissions are not often all that expensive.

[kato13]

I personally think the best option to match the original image style, would be to take public domain pics (from the US military for example) and run them through a pencil sketch conversion. There are some online sites that do this or it can be done in photoshop with
many (6-20 depending on the image) simple steps. The steps can be scripted though.

http://www.picturetopeople.org/photo_sketch/realistic_pencil_sketch_photo_effect.html

http://photoshopcafe.com/sketch-photo-photoshop-tutorial

Converting to a sketch also moves it closer to being classified as a derivative work which might offer some legal protection if the images are not fully public domain.

[Olefin]

Interesting links there

Definitely changes the photos to more like the original sketches

Here is an example - what do you think? I can update the Sourcebook to have these updated photo effects pretty easily if people would prefer them to the original photos

[kato13]

I think you might have to harden lines in a few places (example below) but I think it could work.

[stg58fal]

His book is for sale.

Yes, I know. I bought it. I was meaning in a general way, for everyone ELSE.

[Olefin]

more pics using the software

[Draq]

Perfect

[ArmySGT.]

Yes, I know. I bought it. I was meaning in a general way, for everyone ELSE.

Still gets you into trouble. Not making a profit (for yourself) doesn't mean the owner doesn't lose income generation from your use of their property.

Fair Use is a tough argument to hold up if you're not the owner.

[.45cultist]

I personally think the best option to match the original image style, would be to take public domain pics (from the US military for example) and run them through a pencil sketch conversion. There are some online sites that do this or it can be done in photoshop with
many (6-20 depending on the image) simple steps. The steps can be scripted though.

http://www.picturetopeople.org/photo_sketch/realistic_pencil_sketch_photo_effect.html

http://photoshopcafe.com/sketch-photo-photoshop-tutorial

Converting to a sketch also moves it closer to being classified as a derivative work which might offer some legal protection if the images are not fully public domain.

A lot of 1st ed modules used military pics and movies for inspiration, "Armies of the Night had Arnold with an H&K94 from "Raw Deal" and the Geoffrey Lewis from "Night of the Comet".

[kato13]

A lot of 1st ed modules used military pics and movies for inspiration, "Armies of the Night had Arnold with an H&K94 from "Raw Deal" and the Geoffrey Lewis from "Night of the Comet".

Yeah we discussed that in a earlier thread how you could get away with so much more in the 80s

Whole thread (shame Nates drawings are gone, some day I'll see if I can grab them as they are still on the site and click reload lets you see them)
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2556&

Raw deal comparison
http://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php?p=8556&postcount=30

[Olefin]

I noticed that as well. There were other derivative pics as well. In my case everything I am using is public and open for use - actually took photos out that I used in the original fan canon work because I couldnt use them for the release that was for profit. For instance the pic I had of a Buford tank - it wasnt a pic that I could use without getting permission so I had to get rid of it.

[James Langham2]

I may be able to help here, I run a mini-photography business in my spare time (ha!) and one of my projects is to create pics suitable for Twilight 2000. I'm quite happy for these to be used with attribution and can even edit shots to look more like the original edition if required (I STILL have great fun identifying the original pics!). If anyone is doing anything coming up for publication drop me a line and I can see what I have or can arrange to shoot.

[Olefin]

I may be able to help here, I run a mini-photography business in my spare time (ha!) and one of my projects is to create pics suitable for Twilight 2000. I'm quite happy for these to be used with attribution and can even edit shots to look more like the original edition if required (I STILL have great fun identifying the original pics!). If anyone is doing anything coming up for publication drop me a line and I can see what I have or can arrange to shoot.

That is great to hear that you can do that! Heck yes I would be interested and definitely would be able to give you attribution

question - if I sent you any of the pics I used for the Africa Sourcebook could you modify them as you said above?

definitely interested

[James Langham]

That is great to hear that you can do that! Heck yes I would be interested and definitely would be able to give you attribution

question - if I sent you any of the pics I used for the Africa Sourcebook could you modify them as you said above?

definitely interested

Send me a couple and I will see what I can do.

[James Langham]

Here is a trial (quick) edit.

[Olefin]

official answer to your trial

Damn that looks awesome!

[James Langham]

Slightly different styles.

[.45cultist]

Artwork is fine if it backs up the narrative but if is just pictures to cover up space or to fill pages why bother. I would rather have meaty content and few pictures than poor content with lots of pictures.
As for the GDW releases of the 80s and 90s the covers were excellent (Pirates of the Vistula being my favourite) but the interior drawings were at times lacking.

Which ones, the first printings had different covers.

[Webstral]

James, those images are amazing. They incorporate a large taste of the artwork of the original release.

[James Langham]

James, those images are amazing. They incorporate a large taste of the artwork of the original release.

Still working on a better look.

[James Langham]

Slightly different effect

[Draq]

Somewhere between this one and the previous ones. Although either looks good.

[ArmySGT.]

The United States Department of Defense Public Affairs Office.

Photo Gallery (https://www.defense.gov/Photos/Photo-Gallery/?igcategory=Lead%20Photos)

[Olefin]

The United States Department of Defense Public Affairs Office.

Photo Gallery (https://www.defense.gov/Photos/Photo-Gallery/?igcategory=Lead%20Photos)

gold mine of public photos you can use in a module or sourcebook for sure

[James Langham]

Inspired by art in the BYB - The Battle of Berlin 1997

[James Langham]

And another in the same vein...

[mcchordsage]

The images I've been using in my Twilight 1964 booklet, not that that's ever going to be published, have been coming from state archives mostly. Some National Guards have great photo collections either through the state archives (New Jersey) or Flickr (Georgia). If you want to go for a B&W 80's and 90's feel with a creative commons license. Not sure what if you could charge for anything with them in though.

[James Langham]

The images I've been using in my Twilight 1964 booklet, not that that's ever going to be published, have been coming from state archives mostly. Some National Guards have great photo collections either through the state archives (New Jersey) or Flickr (Georgia). If you want to go for a B&W 80's and 90's feel with a creative commons license. Not sure what if you could charge for anything with them in though.

If you want any editing send me them and I will see what I can do.

[Olefin]

The United States Department of Defense Public Affairs Office.

Photo Gallery (https://www.defense.gov/Photos/Photo-Gallery/?igcategory=Lead%20Photos)

great site - and can find stuff you could easily use for a sourcebook - i.e. this pic from 1995

at the site it says - U.S. Air Force Red Horse engineers quickly erect a tent city at Tuzla Air Base, Bosnia and Herzegovina, on Dec. 31, 1995. The hard backed tents will be used to house U.S. Army and Air Force troops at Tuzla Air Base. The engineers are from the 823rd Red Horse Civil Engineering Squadron, Hurlburt Field, Fla.

For the game you could do something like - soldiers from the 42nd Infantry Division building their winter quarters in 1999

[StainlessSteelCynic]

There's a couple of interesting photos in the following collection that could be useful for the "pencil shading" treatment
http://www.pettyandposh.com/remembering-the-vietnam-war-through-an-image-slideshow/

Just don't read the captions, you'll come away convinced that the author of the article is a dumb person writing dumb comments for dumb people - and that's me trying to be polite, they range from the laughable comment that napalm is "a harsh chemical that severely burns the skin" to the mind-boggling absurd comment "The dense jungles allowed the native soldiers to hide from the inexperienced American soldiers. For this reason, machine gun raids were needed to provide cover for foot soldiers."
How the hell do you carry out a "machinegun raid"? :confused:
And just what the hell is a "machinegun raid"? :rolleyes:

[Olefin]

another one that I found that would be perfect for anything to do with the US border patrol or operations along the Mexican border from the US Dept of Defense

[James Langham]

Here you go...

[James Langham]

and this one - I might well use this for either the cavalry or US Border Guards articles

[Olefin]

and this one - I might well use this for either the cavalry or US Border Guards articles

I was thinking that when I saw it - would be a great way to have a US general be introduced as well into either article

[James Langham]

I was thinking that when I saw it - would be a great way to have a US general be introduced as well into either article

Any idea on the unit patches?

[Raellus]

Looks good but what about the uniforms? The ACU picutred wasn't introduced until after 2003-ish (in the real world). It's an anachronism in both v1.0 and v2 T2K. Even with the black-and-white shading effects, you can pick out ACU features that the earlier U.S. BDUs didn't have.

I realize that this is probably nitpicking and that most GMs/players don't care about kit minutiae, but some might.

[Olefin]

Looks good but what about the uniforms? The ACU picutred wasn't introduced until after 2003-ish (in the real world). It's an anachronism in both v1.0 and v2 T2K. Even with the black-and-white shading effects, you can pick out ACU features that the earlier U.S. BDUs didn't have.

I realize that this is probably nitpicking and that most GMs/players don't care about kit minutiae, but some might.

The cav photo you would probably use for Twilight 2013 unaltered the other would be ok for the V1, V2 or V2.2 if you want to be purist (i.e. its from 1995)

[James Langham]

Looks good but what about the uniforms? The ACU picutred wasn't introduced until after 2003-ish (in the real world). It's an anachronism in both v1.0 and v2 T2K. Even with the black-and-white shading effects, you can pick out ACU features that the earlier U.S. BDUs didn't have.

I realize that this is probably nitpicking and that most GMs/players don't care about kit minutiae, but some might.

I did wonder that myself. I might try a lower resolution/size or if I am using it for the US Border Guards, maybe all manner of bits might be made locally and with a little edit it could pass off as a non-issue commercial desert pattern.

[Olefin]

Here is a good one for almost anywhere - it was taken in Korea in 1998

"Soldiers assigned to C Troop of the 4th Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment drive an M-113A1 Armored Personnel Carrier to the live fire range at the Korea Training Center, Republic of Korea, on Oct. 25, 1998. Armored units use the range to meet yearly, live gunnery training requirements."

[Olefin]

and another good one from Bosnia

A U.S. Army soldier communicates with his headquarters as another soldier monitors the radio while on a security patrol near the town of Sljoke, Bosnia and Herzegovina, on Jan. 16, 1996, during Operation Joint Endeavor. The soldiers are patrolling the area in a M3-A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle as part of the NATO Implementation Force (IFOR). The troops are deployed from the 1st Cavalry, Budingen, Germany.

https://www.defense.gov/Photos/Photo-Gallery/igphoto/2001237170/

The archive photos at the Defense.Gov site are the oldest ones and the ones most likely useful for V1 or V2

[James Langham]

And the edits...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Some interesting photos of British forces during the Cold War era can be found here http://coldwarwarriors.proboards.com/board/12/original-photographs
The forum itself seems to have fallen into disuse but there's still some good fodder for gaming to be found there.
The Northern Ireland images are particularly good and while the Falklands section is good, many of the photos are ones that have been seen in newspapers/TV etc. etc. over the years (so nothing particularly new there...)
And the last section titled "Pics from book" suffers from the poster not keeping his image posting site up to date, none of the images show up anymore.

While some photos have been censored, others haven't and could be given the pencil shading treatment. I was particularly interested to see the images from the sub-forum titled "Old Skool SF". There's two photos of a particular Austrian rifle from the late 1970s that are incredibly intriguing to me.
http://coldwarwarriors.proboards.com/thread/54/old-skool-sf

[James Langham2]

I'm guessing the AUG is one from a local unit, possibly in the Middle east?

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Given the look of the background and the relationship between the UK and this nation, I'm guessing Oman?

[James Langham]

Given the look of the background and the relationship between the UK and this nation, I'm guessing Oman?

Downloading the colour pic with an AUG and I noticed it is called Oman7.

[Jason Weiser]

Well,
Might as well let the cat out of the bag, as I have crossed the halfway mark in writing the thing.

I am currently working on a little adventure called "Charters of Freedom" which will be the PCs working for MilGov on a mission to recover the Declaration of Independence and Constitution from a vault in Mount Weather before New America does. It will be set in early to mid 2002 and I hope it allows me to do a kind of "Lord of the Rings" like saga where a grand adventure is sought to recover two of the most important documents in American History..before New America does.

[Raellus]

Sounds cool, Jason. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[Draq]

Ooh yes

[James Langham]

Well,
Might as well let the cat out of the bag, as I have crossed the halfway mark in writing the thing.

I am currently working on a little adventure called "Charters of Freedom" which will be the PCs working for MilGov on a mission to recover the Declaration of Independence and Constitution from a vault in Mount Weather before New America does. It will be set in early to mid 2002 and I hope it allows me to do a kind of "Lord of the Rings" like saga where a grand adventure is sought to recover two of the most important documents in American History..before New America does.

Are there any pics that you could use?

[The Dark]

Well,
Might as well let the cat out of the bag, as I have crossed the halfway mark in writing the thing.

I am currently working on a little adventure called "Charters of Freedom" which will be the PCs working for MilGov on a mission to recover the Declaration of Independence and Constitution from a vault in Mount Weather before New America does. It will be set in early to mid 2002 and I hope it allows me to do a kind of "Lord of the Rings" like saga where a grand adventure is sought to recover two of the most important documents in American History..before New America does.

That may also be where the Liberty Bell was supposed to be evacuated to, which would make for its own transportation issues (it masses 900 kilograms). It could be as important as the documents, since it can't be easily forged and is a more physical symbol.

[WallShadow]

That may also be where the Liberty Bell was supposed to be evacuated to, which would make for its own transportation issues (it masses 900 kilograms). It could be as important as the documents, since it can't be easily forged and is a more physical symbol.


The sensible solution would be to have a subterranean vault directly below the Liberty Bell to have it lowered into and sealed when other national treasures are being secured: similar to the arrangement for the US Constitution as described in Howling Wilderness, IIRC.

[The Dark]

The sensible solution would be to have a subterranean vault directly below the Liberty Bell to have it lowered into and sealed when other national treasures are being secured: similar to the arrangement for the US Constitution as described in Howling Wilderness, IIRC.

They did bore corings and then decided it made more sense to move the Bell to Mount Weather rather than try to build an H-Bomb-proof bunker in the middle of downtown Philadelphia with a system to raise and lower a one ton assembly of wood and metal (particularly since it's right next to Independence Hall, and any damage to that building would be unthinkable). Also, note that the vaults for the Constitution and Declaration are for normal safe-keeping; in case of a nuclear attack, they were to be evacuated to Mount Weather because those vaults are not rated for a nuclear strike on DC.

[Jason Weiser]

They did bore corings and then decided it made more sense to move the Bell to Mount Weather rather than try to build an H-Bomb-proof bunker in the middle of downtown Philadelphia with a system to raise and lower a one ton assembly of wood and metal (particularly since it's right next to Independence Hall, and any damage to that building would be unthinkable). Also, note that the vaults for the Constitution and Declaration are for normal safe-keeping; in case of a nuclear attack, they were to be evacuated to Mount Weather because those vaults are not rated for a nuclear strike on DC.

It actually is...how well it does depends on the size of the warhead...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/zombies-constitution-world-war-z-plan-declaration.html

Despite Ferriero’s best efforts to conceal the government’s plan from America’s citizens, a.k.a potential future zombies, we do have a pretty good idea of how the Charters would be protected in the event of a zombie outbreak.

Line of defense No. 1: the “Charters Vault.” In 1953, during the Cold War, a “Charters Vault” was built and installed at the National Archives. “At the closing of the building each night, the documents and their protective display cases were lowered into the vault,” according to Atomic Audit: The Costs and Consequences of U.S. Nuclear Weapons Since 1940. “This was also done in the event of a nuclear attack.”

And more detail in the same article:

One of the most difficult challenges facing doomsday planners was deciding what cultural treasures should be saved … Between 1979 and 1981, a government task force called the Cultural Heritage Preservation Group met to draw up priority lists. The Library of Congress’s “Top Treasures Inventory” includes a Gutenberg Bible, the Gettysburg Address and various papers of James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and George Mason. For the National Archives, which is seven blocks from the White House, the single most precious item would be the Declaration of Independence, followed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Though the National Archives building has a 55-ton steel-and-concrete vault on the premises, the scenario calls for the evacuation of these and other documents, probably by helicopter, to an underground facility, if there is adequate warning time.
According to Time, the art, at least — and presumably the Charters as well — would be sent to Mount Weather, a Virginia complex known to include a bunker that would serve as one of the sites the government would retreat to in the case of a nuclear strike. Whether this is still the plan, we can’t say for sure.

“When I was at the Archives in the eighties and first half of the nineties, we had a list of the highest-priority items (including the ‘Charters’) that would be protected in case of a national emergency,” Trudy Huskamp, a former Archivist of the United States from 1993 to 1995, e-mailed from the Marshall Islands. “I assume there is still such a list; however, I don’t know where the items would be relocated.”

So yeah, the vault was rated to survive a nuke, but the plan was not for the Charters to remain there. And to quote Howling Wilderness (p.34) (Yuck!)

As a side note, the National Archives was closed at the time of the attack. When the bomb destroyed the White House, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, the two most
important documents in American history, were in their normal nocturnal resting place: a 50-ton subterranean vault designed to protect them from fire, flood, earthquake, and (of course)
nuclear attack. In 1998 a special team recovered them and respectfully transported them to a similar vault in Mount Weather. With the Civgov evacuation, the vault was sealed with
concrete.

[The Dark]

That's right, I had forgotten that Mosler (who also worked on the Greenbrier site) had tested a vault during the Priscilla shot (a 37-kiloton test). The Mosler vault was replaced about a decade ago with a Diebold (Mosler having gone out of business in 2001), and I had notes at the time that the Mosler wasn't designed to resist modern warheads, so I overstated the vulnerability.