Sweden in T2K

[Raellus]

I thought we had a thread discussing Sweden in the Twilight War but I can't find it.

I really like the idea of Sweden insinuating itself into early 2001 Poland. Most of the Americans in Poland are gone (OMEGA). German forces are pulling back to their home territory. Many major Soviet formations are on their way home. Big chunks of Poland are soon to be there for the taking.

Poland's a mess, but maybe Sweden's got its eye on the long-game. There's historical precedent (albeit, way back during the 30 Years' War). At the very least, I can see Sweden sending teams to gather intel. Further, I can see them sending troops, ostensibly acting as independent mercenaries, to assist whatever faction the Swedish government sees benefiting them in the long run- perhaps the PFC (although Sweden might not want a strong faction taking power) , or maybe a free city on the coast (Gdynia, or whatever's left of Gdansk). The idea is that Sweden intends to be the major power of the Baltic Rim- slowly, quietly, but definitively.

This all assumes that Sweden suffers less from the effects of WWIII than its neighbors. Canon mentions heavy fighting in Norway and Finland, but, AFAIK, it doesn't have much to say about Sweden. Or does it?

[ArmySGT.]

This all assumes that Sweden suffers less from the effects of WWIII than its neighbors. Canon mentions heavy fighting in Norway and Finland, but, AFAIK, it doesn't have much to say about Sweden. Or does it?

Would Sweden void their neutrality for territory?

[Raellus]

Would Sweden void their neutrality for territory?

Not likely. But they're not after territory, per se. They're after influence. The agents are incognito, the mercs are deniable. I imagine that their gear is scrubbed to hide any connection to Sweden. They're all volunteers. They know nothing about Sweden's strategic aims. They've been instructed not to be taken alive. Even if a few were captured, the Swedish government could deny any connection, explaining that they're simply thrill-seekers operating independently. I'm imagining small groups- no more than 100 mercs in any given area- operating in select, low-risk locations, where their presence has maximum leverage with minimal risk. Besides, by the winter of 2000-2001, the Soviets, Americans, and Germans have problems much closer to home to attend to. I'm not sure a couple hundred Swedish mercs in Poland is worth expanding the war again.

[The Dark]

Would Sweden void their neutrality for territory?

Sweden dropped its official neutrality policy after the end of the Cold War. Unofficially, it was dropped in the 1960s, when US submarines with Polaris missiles were stationed in Swedish territorial waters, the US provided aid on the Viggen, and the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology helped improve the CEP of the Polaris missile.


What would be standard equipment for Swedish forces at the time? I'm going through listings of when equipment entered and exited service, and my best guess is:
Pistol: Pistol 88/88B (Glock 17/19)
SMG: Kpist m/45 (Carl Gustav m/45, uncommon due to replacement by ARs)
Assault Rifle: Ak 4 (H&K G3) / Ak 5 (FN FNC)
General Purpose Machine Gun: Ksp 58 (FN MAG in 7.62x51mm)
Light Machine Gun: Ksp 90 (FN Minimi)

Vehicles:
Infantry support: Ikv 91 (amphibious light tank with 90mm L/54 gun and 2 7.62mm MGs, 12 per infantry brigade)
Tank: Centurion Mk.III and Mk.V (updated with 105mm gun, night vision, and reactive armor)
Tank Destroyer: Strv 103 (officially an MBT)
APCs: Pbv 302 (tracked, 3+8 personnel, 20mm cannon), Tgbil m/42 (wheeled, 3+7 personnel, 2x7.62mm M1917 Browning), maybe Patria Pasi (wheeled, 2+16 personnel, 12.7x99mm MG, 70+ sold by Finland to Sweden in the late 80s), Tgb 11/13/21/22 (Volvo C303 truck; 1+19 as APC, 1+11 as MANPADS carrier with RBS 70 systems, can also carry a 90mm recoilless rifle)
All-Terrain Carrier: Bv 202 (2+10 personnel), Bv 206 (1+12 personnel)

[The Dark]

My previous post notwithstanding, I am in agreement with Raellus that Sweden would be looking more for influence than territory. They wouldn't try to take over Warsaw (using that as an example only), but they might "encourage some mercenaries" to support their preferred faction in the city (i.e. send deniable assets to assist). The most likely personnel to be used would probably be Fallskärmsjägarna or Kustjägarna, since they were trained in recon and sabotage work.

[Raellus]

I've thought about how the mercs would be equipped. For a company of about 100 men, I'm imagining that most would be armed with AK4's scrubbed of all maker's marks. By 2000-2001, there are plenty of German G3s still floating around central Europe, so a sanitized AK4 wouldn't arouse much suspicion. I also figure that the Swedes would have managed to get their hands on quite a few Kalashnikovs, from Soviet troops interned after having wandered across Sweden's borders (there were plenty of Red Army troops in Norway and Finland), or defected, during the war. I like the AK5, but it's too distinctive and ammo it resupply would be difficult once the Swedish troops were in Poland.

For uniforms, sanitized surplus OD battle dress and LBE. I don't imagine them bringing anything heavier than some Carl Gustav RRs and mortars.

I imagine that the professional core of the merc companies would be personnel from the elite units you mentioned, Dark; the rest would be volunteers from the regular army.

I plan to write up a "typical" Swedish merc unit and post it here for anyone interested in using it.

[unkated]

Try searching.

"Scandinavia" turns up more than a dozen threads, including this one:

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4412&highlight=scandinavia

"Sweden" shows the same one.

Uncle Ted

[The Dark]

I've thought about how the mercs would be equipped. For a company of about 100 men, I'm imagining that most would be armed with AK4's scrubbed of all maker's marks. By 2000-2001, there are plenty of German G3s still floating around central Europe, so a sanitized AK4 wouldn't arouse much suspicion. I also figure that the Swedes would have managed to get their hands on quite a few Kalashnikovs, from Soviet troops interned after having wandered across Sweden's borders (there were plenty of Red Army troops in Norway and Finland), or defected, during the war. I like the AK5, but it's too distinctive and ammo it resupply would be difficult once the Swedish troops were in Poland.That sounds reasonable. The m/45 SMG might see some use as well, since Latvia and Estonia both used it. Another possibility would be the Kpist m/37-39 (a license-built Suomi KP/-31 after modification to 9mm Para), since it looks passably like a PPSh-41 from a distance. They were still in service in the 1980s, so they may not have been scrapped by the time of the Twilight War. Naturally, captured weapons would be used as much as possible, but they'd need something to start with.

I imagine that the professional core of the merc companies would be personnel from the elite units you mentioned, Dark; the rest would be volunteers from the regular army.

I plan to write up a "typical" Swedish merc unit and post it here for anyone interested in using it.
I'd envision them drawing the CO (and possibly XO) from the elite units, along with sniper/spotter team(s). Medics and comms specialists could likely come from either the elite units or the regular military (depending on qualifications), while "standard" riflemen would likely be volunteers from regular units or retired veterans. They'd likely also look for language specialists, since while German's fairly common as a taught language (until 1952, it was compulsory for all students), Russian and Polish are not.

[Raellus]

Agree with you on all points, Dark.

The m/45's appearance as a sanitized weapon in Poland, c. 2001 is somewhat ironic as U.S. SOF carried them on covert ops in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam War. Thanks for calling my attention to the Kpist m/37-39. I wasn't aware of its existence.

On a bit of a tangent, I can also see the Swedes mounting hearts and minds ops in relatively secure areas- teams of medical personnel and engineers helping to repair bodies and infrastructure.

[ArmySGT.]

Why wouldn't neutral Sweden be the exchange point for POWs instead? There is enough influence in that.

There is heavy fighting all around them. 100 Fins for 100 Soviets, as an example.

Also Sweden maybe an ironic place where Soviets and NATO troops openly mingle in open air markets buying luxuries and food.

Sweden would be flooded with refugee children and the only place maybe with University level education intact.

[WallShadow]

Here's a bit of industrial trivia that would provide any Swedish-supplied troops with an advantage--the city of Falkenburg is the site of an aramid-fiber production plant--body armor and splinter-shielding for everybody!

[ArmySGT.]

Antenna hasn't been on in two years. Maybe send him an email and get his input? I think he is Finnish.

How many Royals and 1% have parked their kids in neutral Sweden and Switzerland? There is your influence and leverage. The Royals are all inter related in some way; Usually through Queen Victoria.

Do the Swede's really need to even bother with sanitized weapons and equipment after 4 years of world war? Anyone raises a stink just tell them that armories for reserve troops were looted by marauders and sold on the black market.

[mpipes]

This is my take on Sweden in my modified timeline.

The repaired USS Enterprise leaves Narvik on the 16th February. Tipped off by a Soviet agent, the Soviets launch an air strike conducted through Swedish airspace. Analysts note that the escorting aircraft this time are long range SU27 Flankers. Sweden intercepts the strike, catching the Soviets by surprise, downing a number of attacking TU22M Backfires as well as Flanker escorts. Although a number of missiles are launched targeting the carrier, all are successfully engaged by the escorting cruisers and frigates or fighters. The Soviets suffer relatively light losses, as they wisely choose to break off the attack rather than risk getting caught in a pincer between Swedish Gripens and U.S. Tomcats. Sweden protests to the Soviet Union against the use of its air space and warns both NATO and the Pact that they intend to aggressively defend their airspace. However, before the end of March, Sweden declares war on the side of NATO as New Pact aircraft and submarines kept repeatedly violating Swedish territorial limits and attacking Swedish shipping. Swedish troops deploy north into the northern front with a few units moving into northern Germany.

[Raellus]

Interesting take, Mpipes.

@ArmySGT, I think Antenna is Swedish. I suppose Sweden could hope to gain influence by harboring V.I.P.s, but it's a little too passive for my tastes, and with no guarantees. "Leverage" sort of implies strong-arm tactics, but I don't think that you are suggesting that Sweden use "guests" as hostages to achieve political/economic ends.

I don't think that brokering prisoner exchanges between the Finns and Soviets is going to help Sweden gain influence in Poland.

Your Casablanca idea is intriguing, but I don't see Sweden allowing NATO and/or Soviet troops on its soil, even unarmed.

Sanitizing gear requires minimum effort and still, IMHO, lends itself better to plausible deniability than claiming marauders somehow made it to Sweden, stole a bunch of Swedish military guns, and then made their way back to Poland.

[Raellus]

Bottom line for me is that, as of early 2001, Sweden is in the best position of any nation east of France to emerge as Northern/Central Europe's leading economic and military power. Canon says that, as of mid-to-late 2000, the U.S.S.R. can no longer control its Baltic republics, and Ukraine is in open rebellion. Sweden is well positioned to lend covert support to the Baltics with the aim of bringing them into its sphere of influence. It could also support friendly factions in northern Poland, with like goals. Granted, this posits a Swedish government that is ambitious and not overly risk averse (in the spirit of Gustavus Adolphus).

Personally, I really like the idea of formerly neutral Sweden emerging as a power player c.2001. As a campaign designer, it opens up interesting new possibilities for NPCs, weapons and equipment, and PC options.

[The Dark]

I think a good alternate selection for the Casablanca of Europe would be Brno. Canonically (in 2.2, at least), only Praha and Ostrava were definitely hit, and it's noted that different portions of Czechoslovakia are occupied by different factions. Since they left the Pact in 1990, they could be viewed as the closest thing to neutral in continental Europe.

[Adm.Lee]

There's historical precedent (albeit, way back during the 30 Years' War).

Even earlier, as the Swedish king was elected to rule Poland in the 1590's, which led to a war with Sweden. I don't think they should try to conquer it this time around.

I do agree, though, that it would be good politics for the Swedes to at least try to win influence with whatever communities emerge around the Baltic coast-- Poland is just one of them. Helping anyone to rebuild should make for better neighbors.

Potentially, Sweden could emerge as leader of all of its neighbors, rivalling France. Does anyone have a reference to what Sweden does in the GDW "Great Game"?

[pmulcahy11b]

Antenna hasn't been on in two years. Maybe send him an email and get his input? I think he is Finnish.

Antenna is Swedish, but is of Finnish extraction.

[RN7]

I don't think Sweden actually believed that its neutrality would survive a major war in Europe, largely because the Soviet's (and the Swedes) believed Sweden was part of the West. Although in the Twilight War Sweden's neutrality did seem to have been more or less respected.

Swedish neutrality since the early 19th Century was more to do with suiting themselves than any ideals about being a peaceful country. Sweden had pretty much fought itself out during previous European conflicts, and despite being the largest Scandinavian country it was rapidly overtaken by the larger European powers by the 19th Century. Also the other Scandinavian countries didn't entirely trust Sweden due to past dominance over them, and Sweden still had ambitions on Norway into the 1850's. During the two world wars Sweden had an uncomfortably close relationship with Germany for a neutral country, and British and French intervention in Norway in 1940 was as much to with preventing Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany as it was in helping Norwegian independence.

As Dark as already pointed out Sweden had a close relationship with the U.S. and NATO during the Cold War, and they also shared a lot of intelligence on the Soviets with NATO. They also traded weapons with many NATO countries during the Cold War, particularly with Britain and today most of the Swedish defence sector is British owned.

Sweden also believed in armed neutrality, and they were very heavily armed with a large indigenous defence sector. Sweden built and designed most of its own weapons, ranging from rifles to tanks, fighter jets and submarines. What they didn't design or build themselves they generally built under license, and license building of other Western arms and components only enhanced the already advanced Swedish defence sector.

Sweden wasn't targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons during the Twilight War, at least there is no mention of it. And it is likely to have survived conventional attack or invasion due to the fact that Sweden fighting with NATO would have severely compromised the Soviet's defence position in the Baltic and Arctic theatres due to the fact that Sweden has a very powerful army. This would have left a relatively intact Sweden in an advantageous position in Northern Europe at the end of the Twilight War.

Would Sweden have sent mercenary groups outside of its own territory with government backing to secure Swedish interests? Highly likely. In fact I would be surprised if Sweden didn't actually send larger forces outside of its territory to secure a number of Swedish interests and there are quite a few.

1) Swedes in Finland: About 10% of Finland's population is ethnically Swedish, and over 5% of them still speak Swedish as their first language. They are concentrated in the Aland Islands in the Gulf of Bothnia, and in communities on the western and southern coast of Finland. Some naval and land forces could be sent to secure these areas.

2) The Baltic Approaches: Passing through the Skagerrak and Kattegat is necessary to enter the Baltic Sea from the west. Although Sweden shares control with Denmark and Norway, Denmark geographically dominates the region. With Denmark disorientated due to the war and nuclear attacks, I could see Swedish naval and air forces patrolling this region and some Swedish land forces on the Danish island of Zealand.

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

4) Southern Baltic Coast: As Sweden is still an intact nation, a lot of refugees will want to make their way to Sweden from across the Baltic Sea. So we could seen some Swedish naval and air activity along the southern Baltic coast which includes Denmark, Germany, Poland and the Baltic States. Also Sweden will be taking an interest in who's in charge and of any emerging threats across the Baltic region. So it is likely that it will be here that we will see most Swedish mercenary activity, volunteers with the unofficial approval of their government.


Army

Peacetime Establishment
Army: 44,500 (37,700 conscripts)


6 Military Commands (1st, 3rd, 12th, 13th, 15th divisions and 18th (Gotland) Brigade)

War Establishment (725,000 on mobilisation)
Field Army: 350,000

6 Armoured Brigade (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 18th, 26th)
1 Mechanised Brigade (10th)
18 Infantry Brigade (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 17th, 21st, 33rd, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th)
5 Arctic Infantry (Norrland) Brigade (13th, 19th, 35th, 50th, 51st)
9 Artillery Regiment (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th)
1 Aviation Battalion (1st)
100 independent battalions (armoured, infantry, artillery, air defence)

Local Defence Units: 250,000

60 Independent battalions, 400-500 Independent companies

Home Guard: 125,000

Assorted infantry, artillery, static artillery and air defence units


Equipment
Tanks: 785 (450x Centurion, 335x Strv-103)
Light Tanks: 200 (200x Ikv-91)
APC: 600 (600x Pbv-302)
SP Artillery: 30 (30x 155mm BK-1A)
Artillery: 990 (300x 155mm FH-77, 140x 150mm M-39, 550x 105mm Type-40)
Mortar: 1,500 (500x 120mm, 1,000x 81mm)
ATGW: RB-53 Bantam, RB-56 Bill, TOW
Recoilless Rifle: AT-4, Carl Gustav, Miniman
AD Guns: 714 (600x 40mm, 114x 20mm)
SAM: RBS-70, Redeye, I-Hawk
Aircraft: 19 (17x Bae Bulldog, 2x Do-217)
Helicopter: 79 (20x Bo-105CB-3, 14x Bell-204B, 19x Agusta-Bell 206, 26x Hughes 300)


Air Force

Air Force: 8,000 (5,500 conscripts)

4 Air Defence Districts
6 Fighter/Ground Attack (FGA) Squadrons
11 Fighter Squadrons
3 Reconnaissance Squadrons
1 Transport Squadron


Equipment
FGA: 99 (81x AJ-37 Viggen, 18x SK-37 Viggen)
Fighter: 218 (139x JA-37 Viggen, 68x J-35 Draken, 11x SK-35C Draken)
Recce: 48 (48x SH/SF-37 Viggen)
ECM: 2 (2x Caravelle ECM/ELINT)
Transport: 30 (8x C-130E/H)
Communication: 22 (3x Beech Super King Air 200, 2x Fairchild Metro III, 16x Saab 105, 1x Saab 34D)
Training: 207 (22x J-32D/E Lansen, 30x Saab 91, 105x Saab 105, 50x B.125 Bulldog)
Helicopter: 32 (10x CH-46, 12x Super Puma, 4x Bo-105CB-3, 6x Agusta-Bell 206)


Navy

Navy: 12,000 (6,300 conscripts and including Coast Defence)


Submarines: 12 (4x Vastergotland, 3x Nacken, 5x Sjoorman)
Missile Craft: 31 (1x Goteborg, 2x Stockholm, 16x Hugin, 12x Norrkoping)
Patrol Craft: 11 (4x PFI, 7x PCI)
Minelayer: 3 (1x Carlskrona, 2x Alvsborg)
Minehunter: 23 (3x Arko, 6x Landsort, 14x other)
Amphibious: 12 (12x LCM)
Support Ship: 12
Aircraft: 1 (1x C-212)
Helicopter: 23 (14x CH-46, 9x Agusta-Bell 206)


Coast Defence: 2,650 (including 1,700 conscripts)

5 Coastal Artillery Regiment
Minelayer: 16 (10x Coastal. 16x Inshore)
Patrol Craft: 18 (18x Inshore)
Amphibious: 154 (14x LCM, 80x LCU, 60x LCA)
Fixed Artillery: 98 (18x 120mm, 6x 105mm, 74x 75mm)
Anti-Ship Missile: RBS-17, RBS-15KA, RBS-08A, RB-52
AD Guns: 40mm


Paramilitary

Coast Guard: 600

Patrol Craft: 72 (2x Fishery Protection, 70x Inshore)
Aircraft: 3 (1x C-212, 1x Cessna 337, 1x Cessna 402)

[Raellus]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, RN7. You nailed it, IMO. An additional area of strategic economic interest, as far as Sweden is concerned, is the oil shale deposits in Estonia.

I took the time to check out the T2K Scandinavia Sourcebook and its depiction of Sweden, IMO, is pretty nonsensical. It describes Sweden as the most devastated of the Scandinavian countries. Not only are they badly nuked, there's a bloody civil war. It doesn't seem congruent with established canon, or historical reality. I much prefer the vision that RN7 outlined (as it aligns very well with my own).

[Targan]

Ah swedes. Great people, boring vegetables.

[ArmySGT.]

Ah swedes. Great people, boring vegetables.

Most boring people on the planet. Look for a pulse or other sign of life. Add alcohol.... Woo the best!

[RN7]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, RN7. You nailed it, IMO. An additional area of strategic economic interest, as far as Sweden is concerned, is the oil shale deposits in Estonia.

I took the time to check out the T2K Scandinavia Sourcebook and its depiction of Sweden, IMO, is pretty nonsensical. It describes Sweden as the most devastated of the Scandinavian countries. Not only are they badly nuked, there's a bloody civil war. It doesn't seem congruent with established canon, or historical reality. I much prefer the vision that RN7 outlined (as it aligns very well with my own).

Which sourcebook is that Raellus? The only one I know that references Scandinavia are Boomer, with some information also in the Survivors Guide to the UK and NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook.

[kato13]

Which sourcebook is that Raellus? The only one I know that references Scandinavia are Boomer, with some information also in the Survivors Guide to the UK and NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook.

I'm too lazy to cut an paste links so here is a search that lists them. They are translations from the Finnish language sourcebook that GDW either licensed or put out themselves.

http://forum.juhlin.com/search.php?searchid=68954

Normally searches expire but I changed the expire date in the database. If it does expire search for sourcebook and user John Farson under advanced search.

[RN7]

I'm too lazy to cut an paste links so here is a search that lists them. They are translations from the Finnish language sourcebook that GDW either licensed or put out themselves.

http://forum.juhlin.com/search.php?searchid=68954

Normally searches expire but I changed the expire date in the database. If it does expire search for sourcebook and user John Farson under advanced search.

Thanks Kato. I have Antenna's SB somewhere on file, I think it was a bit of the reservation in regards to what would be going on in T2K.

[cawest]

I don't think Sweden actually believed that its neutrality would survive a major war in Europe, largely because the Soviet's (and the Swedes) believed Sweden was part of the West. Although in the Twilight War Sweden's neutrality did seem to have been more or less respected.

Swedish neutrality since the early 19th Century was more to do with suiting themselves than any ideals about being a peaceful country. Sweden had pretty much fought itself out during previous European conflicts, and despite being the largest Scandinavian country it was rapidly overtaken by the larger European powers by the 19th Century. Also the other Scandinavian countries didn't entirely trust Sweden due to past dominance over them, and Sweden still had ambitions on Norway into the 1850's. During the two world wars Sweden had an uncomfortably close relationship with Germany for a neutral country, and British and French intervention in Norway in 1940 was as much to with preventing Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany as it was in helping Norwegian independence.

As Dark as already pointed out Sweden had a close relationship with the U.S. and NATO during the Cold War, and they also shared a lot of intelligence on the Soviets with NATO. They also traded weapons with many NATO countries during the Cold War, particularly with Britain and today most of the Swedish defence sector is British owned.

Sweden also believed in armed neutrality, and they were very heavily armed with a large indigenous defence sector. Sweden built and designed most of its own weapons, ranging from rifles to tanks, fighter jets and submarines. What they didn't design or build themselves they generally built under license, and license building of other Western arms and components only enhanced the already advanced Swedish defence sector.

Sweden wasn't targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons during the Twilight War, at least there is no mention of it. And it is likely to have survived conventional attack or invasion due to the fact that Sweden fighting with NATO would have severely compromised the Soviet's defence position in the Baltic and Arctic theatres due to the fact that Sweden has a very powerful army. This would have left a relatively intact Sweden in an advantageous position in Northern Europe at the end of the Twilight War.

Would Sweden have sent mercenary groups outside of its own territory with government backing to secure Swedish interests? Highly likely. In fact I would be surprised if Sweden didn't actually send larger forces outside of its territory to secure a number of Swedish interests and there are quite a few.

1) Swedes in Finland: About 10% of Finland's population is ethnically Swedish, and over 5% of them still speak Swedish as their first language. They are concentrated in the Aland Islands in the Gulf of Bothnia, and in communities on the western and southern coast of Finland. Some naval and land forces could be sent to secure these areas.

2) The Baltic Approaches: Passing through the Skagerrak and Kattegat is necessary to enter the Baltic Sea from the west. Although Sweden shares control with Denmark and Norway, Denmark geographically dominates the region. With Denmark disorientated due to the war and nuclear attacks, I could see Swedish naval and air forces patrolling this region and some Swedish land forces on the Danish island of Zealand.

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

4) Southern Baltic Coast: As Sweden is still an intact nation, a lot of refugees will want to make their way to Sweden from across the Baltic Sea. So we could seen some Swedish naval and air activity along the southern Baltic coast which includes Denmark, Germany, Poland and the Baltic States. Also Sweden will be taking an interest in who's in charge and of any emerging threats across the Baltic region. So it is likely that it will be here that we will see most Swedish mercenary activity, volunteers with the unofficial approval of their government.


Army

Peacetime Establishment
Army: 44,500 (37,700 conscripts)

6 Military Commands (1st, 3rd, 12th, 13th, 15th divisions and 18th (Gotland) Brigade)

War Establishment (725,000 on mobilisation)
Field Army: 350,000

6 Armoured Brigade (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 18th, 26th)
1 Mechanised Brigade (10th)
18 Infantry Brigade (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 17th, 21st, 33rd, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th)
5 Arctic Infantry (Norrland) Brigade (13th, 19th, 35th, 50th, 51st)
9 Artillery Regiment (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th)
1 Aviation Battalion (1st)
100 independent battalions (armoured, infantry, artillery, air defence)

Local Defence Units: 250,000

60 Independent battalions, 400-500 Independent companies

Home Guard: 125,000

Assorted infantry, artillery, static artillery and air defence units


Equipment
Tanks: 785 (450x Centurion, 335x Strv-103)
Light Tanks: 200 (200x Ikv-91)
APC: 600 (600x Pbv-302)
SP Artillery: 30 (30x 155mm BK-1A)
Artillery: 990 (300x 155mm FH-77, 140x 150mm M-39, 550x 105mm Type-40)
Mortar: 1,500 (500x 120mm, 1,000x 81mm)
ATGW: RB-53 Bantam, RB-56 Bill, TOW
Recoilless Rifle: AT-4, Carl Gustav, Miniman
AD Guns: 714 (600x 40mm, 114x 20mm)
SAM: RBS-70, Redeye, I-Hawk
Aircraft: 19 (17x Bae Bulldog, 2x Do-217)
Helicopter: 79 (20x Bo-105CB-3, 14x Bell-204B, 19x Agusta-Bell 206, 26x Hughes 300)


Air Force

Air Force: 8,000 (5,500 conscripts)

4 Air Defence Districts
6 Fighter/Ground Attack (FGA) Squadrons
11 Fighter Squadrons
3 Reconnaissance Squadrons
1 Transport Squadron


Equipment
FGA: 99 (81x AJ-37 Viggen, 18x SK-37 Viggen)
Fighter: 218 (139x JA-37 Viggen, 68x J-35 Draken, 11x SK-35C Draken)
Recce: 48 (48x SH/SF-37 Viggen)
ECM: 2 (2x Caravelle ECM/ELINT)
Transport: 30 (8x C-130E/H)
Communication: 22 (3x Beech Super King Air 200, 2x Fairchild Metro III, 16x Saab 105, 1x Saab 34D)
Training: 207 (22x J-32D/E Lansen, 30x Saab 91, 105x Saab 105, 50x B.125 Bulldog)
Helicopter: 32 (10x CH-46, 12x Super Puma, 4x Bo-105CB-3, 6x Agusta-Bell 206)


Navy

Navy: 12,000 (6,300 conscripts and including Coast Defence)


Submarines: 12 (4x Vastergotland, 3x Nacken, 5x Sjoorman)
Missile Craft: 31 (1x Goteborg, 2x Stockholm, 16x Hugin, 12x Norrkoping)
Patrol Craft: 11 (4x PFI, 7x PCI)
Minelayer: 3 (1x Carlskrona, 2x Alvsborg)
Minehunter: 23 (3x Arko, 6x Landsort, 14x other)
Amphibious: 12 (12x LCM)
Support Ship: 12
Aircraft: 1 (1x C-212)
Helicopter: 23 (14x CH-46, 9x Agusta-Bell 206)


Coast Defence: 2,650 (including 1,700 conscripts)

5 Coastal Artillery Regiment
Minelayer: 16 (10x Coastal. 16x Inshore)
Patrol Craft: 18 (18x Inshore)
Amphibious: 154 (14x LCM, 80x LCU, 60x LCA)
Fixed Artillery: 98 (18x 120mm, 6x 105mm, 74x 75mm)
Anti-Ship Missile: RBS-17, RBS-15KA, RBS-08A, RB-52
AD Guns: 40mm


Paramilitary

Coast Guard: 600

Patrol Craft: 72 (2x Fishery Protection, 70x Inshore)
Aircraft: 3 (1x C-212, 1x Cessna 337, 1x Cessna 402)


I wonder what they would put as priories when war looked to be escalating. you would think that they would put weapons on the market early in the China/Russian war. this would give them time to ramp up production of AT and SAMs, but also APC's . maybe even a wheeled based SP ardy and MRL. what do you all think?

[Rainbow Six]

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

There's oil (and gas) in the Baltic, mostly in Polish and Russian (Kaliningrad) waters, although it's hard to say how much extraction would have taken place in a T2K timeline, particularly V1 (large scale work on the Polish B3 field didn't start until after the collapse of the Soviet Union, although it was worked prior to that).

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/print/volume-60/issue-8/news/poland-driving-oil-and-gas-projects-across-the-baltic.html

There are also onshore fields in the Baltic States, especially Lithuania, which were already being worked in Soviet times, albeit on a small scale.

http://www.baltic-course.com/archive/eng/index.htm-read=387.htm

I'm not sure how practical exploiting any of those resources would be in T2K but it's a possibility.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As an aside, the "Swedish-K" Carl Gustav M/45 was not quite as uncommon as might initially be thought. They were in service in Algeria, Ireland and Paraguay as well as being used by US and SVN forces during the Vietnam War/Second Indochina War. They were also made under licence by Egypt and Indonesia.

They were actually so common in South Vietnam that my father, a junior officer in the Australian Army in Vietnam at the time, "bought" one from regular US forces (as opposed to special units) - bought in this case meaning he traded it for that most desirable of Australian currency during that conflict... Aussie beer.
He also managed to collect a MAT-49 (not in working condition), AKM and M16A1 (that he used as his personal weapon because his issued weapon was the Browning pistol which he never really liked - probably because he can't shoot pistols worth a damn!) The Swedish-K was used as a backup in case he couldn't scrounge enough 5.56mm as he was only supposed to be issued 9mm ammo.

[RN7]

I wonder what they would put as priories when war looked to be escalating. you would think that they would put weapons on the market early in the China/Russian war. this would give them time to ramp up production of AT and SAMs, but also APC's . maybe even a wheeled based SP ardy and MRL. what do you all think?

Many of these weapons made or license built in Sweden may still have been produced during the Twilight War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_of_Sweden

[Rainbow Six]

Bottom line for me is that, as of early 2001, Sweden is in the best position of any nation east of France to emerge as Northern/Central Europe's leading economic and military power. Canon says that, as of mid-to-late 2000, the U.S.S.R. can no longer control its Baltic republics, and Ukraine is in open rebellion. Sweden is well positioned to lend covert support to the Baltics with the aim of bringing them into its sphere of influence. It could also support friendly factions in northern Poland, with like goals. Granted, this posits a Swedish government that is ambitious and not overly risk averse (in the spirit of Gustavus Adolphus).

Personally, I really like the idea of formerly neutral Sweden emerging as a power player c.2001. As a campaign designer, it opens up interesting new possibilities for NPCs, weapons and equipment, and PC options.

I agree with this summary. A thought that crossed my mind this morning is what sort of relationship Sweden and France would have. I can see them meeting and agreeing specific spheres of influence – e.g. the French agree to stay out of Scandinavia and the Baltic SSR’s while the Swedes give the French a free hand in the Benelux region (and maybe also Spain / Portugal).

But I wonder if there might be some disagreement over whose sphere Poland falls into – the French have a historic relationship with Poland and I don’t think it’s a big stretch to presume that the French might want to have some influence with any post War Polish government (if for no other reason than to have a pro France government in place on Germany’s eastern border as a potential check against any future German aggression). I’m not imagining any large scale conflict, but I think there could be scope for some friction between Sweden and France in Poland – for example if both nations were to find out about the existence of the Black Madonna / Reset / any other plot macguffin you want to insert there’s the possibility of both sending in retrieval teams and those teams then clashing with each other, either directly or via proxies.

[Raellus]

But I wonder if there might be some disagreement over whose sphere Poland falls into – the French have a historic relationship with Poland and I don’t think it’s a big stretch to presume that the French might want to have some influence with any post War Polish government (if for no other reason than to have a pro France government in place on Germany’s eastern border as a potential check against any future German aggression). I’m not imagining any large scale conflict, but I think there could be scope for some friction between Sweden and France in Poland – for example if both nations were to find out about the existence of the Black Madonna / Reset / any other plot macguffin you want to insert there’s the possibility of both sending in retrieval teams and those teams then clashing with each other, either directly or via proxies.

That's a very interesting point. I'd overlooked the French. One might see a bit of a cold war between emerging European powers France and Sweden. Perhaps they agree to spheres of influence (France acquires its historical claims to western Germany; Sweden does likewise in N. Poland and the Baltics) but covertly work to undermine one another.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

On a further note, while Sweden once laid claim to land in Poland, the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Germany (as Prussia and the Holy Roman Empire) and Russia during the days of empire, one of their staunchest allies at the time was... France.

The French association with Poland is obviously a little closer in time to the present day than the Swedish ownership of Poland so it's probably a lot more relevant to many Poles than any claim that Sweden once exercised. Poland regards Napoleon I as a hero of nationhood and their national anthem specifically mentions him and French efforts in Poland contributed to the Polish national myth.

There could be some very convoluted loyalties at play in the scenario you fellows have in mind; France & Sweden, Sweden & Poland, Poland & France. Although it obviously needs to consider just how far back in time some people are prepared to go in regards to their friendship & loyalty to rulers and/or allies from days long past.

As an aside, Polish lancers of the Napoleonic period became the model for many laterday light cavalry units and one particular item that is still in use today, albeit cermonial, makes direct connection to that heritage. The lance with its pennant, the colours of which, red & white, are immediately recognizable as the same colours as the Polish national flag.

[Trooper]

Canonical point of view:

V1: Nuclear strikes in Scandinavia (Boomer & obscure Finnish sourcebooks).
+ Twilight 2000 Referees manual p. 26

“First, military targets were hit. Then industrial targets clearly
vital to the war effort. Then economic targets of military importance.
Then transportation and communication, oil fields and
refineries. Then major industrial and oil centers in neutral nations,
to prevent their possible use by the other side. Numerous
warheads were aimed at logistical stockpiles and command-control
centers of the armies in the field. Almost accidentally,
the civilian political command structure was first decimated, then
eliminated. The exchange continued, fitfully and irregularly,
through November and early December, and then gradually
petered out.”

V2 &2.2: No nuclear strikes in Scandinavia.

[RN7]

Canonical point of view:

V1: Nuclear strikes in Scandinavia (Boomer & obscure Finnish sourcebooks).
+ Twilight 2000 Referees manual p. 26

“First, military targets were hit. Then industrial targets clearly
vital to the war effort. Then economic targets of military importance.
Then transportation and communication, oil fields and
refineries. Then major industrial and oil centers in neutral nations,
to prevent their possible use by the other side. Numerous
warheads were aimed at logistical stockpiles and command-control
centers of the armies in the field. Almost accidentally,
the civilian political command structure was first decimated, then
eliminated. The exchange continued, fitfully and irregularly,
through November and early December, and then gradually
petered out.”

V2 &2.2: No nuclear strikes in Scandinavia.


But France seems to have survived being hit by nuclear weapons from the canonical point of view, at least there is no reference to it in V1. And I think Japan, Switzerland etc also survive. If France which is a major power with its own nuclear arsenal is not targeted by nuclear weapons then I think Sweden might have also survived .

[Ewan]

But France seems to have survived being hit by nuclear weapons from the canonical point of view, at least there is no reference to it in V1. And I think Japan, Switzerland etc also survive. If France which is a major power with its own nuclear arsenal is not targeted by nuclear weapons then I think Sweden might have also survived .
In V1 Referee's Manual page 26 it mentions that in 1997 that major industrial and oil centres in neutral countries had been attacked with nuclear weapons. Then in the entry for 1998 "In Europe, France and Belgium had been hit the lightest and stood virtually alone in maintaining a semblance of internal order throughout the cataclysm".
The second edition has "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO".

[Raellus]

In V1 Referee's Manual page 26 it mentions that in 1997 that major industrial and oil centres in neutral countries had been attacked with nuclear weapons. Then in the entry for 1998 "In Europe, France and Belgium had been hit the lightest and stood virtually alone in maintaining a semblance of internal order throughout the cataclysm".

I wonder if the writers were considering Scandinavia when they wrote that. Although technically a part of Europe, I wonder if Scandinavia was accidentally overlooked, being as the writers were Americans, and the region has its own name. Probably not, but I wonder why Sweden, sandwiched between two countries that experienced heavy fighting (Norway & Finland) isn't ever specifically mentioned. Perhaps Sweden did get shellacked, but even it did, I imagine it would still be significantly better off than its Scandinavian neighbors c.2001. I don't think it did, though. How many major industrial and oil centers did Sweden have when that was written?

[RN7]

The issue about France being targeted or not by nuclear weapons in the Twilight War has been frequently argued on this site and others for years. I can remember arguing about this online on the old 2300AD sites nearly 20 years ago. Nobody could ever agree because there is no direct canon reference to France being targeted by nuclear weapons in any sourcebook, or at least no one has so far come across it or a list of French nuclear targets. Two main conclusions were reached. The first is that France was not targeted by nuclear weapons, and the second was that France was lightly targeted by nuclear weapons, i.e. some oil refineries and nothing else. I support the first conclusion.

From your quote from Twilight 2000 1st Edition Core Rules, Page 26

In V1 Referee's Manual page 26 it mentions that in 1997 that major industrial and oil centres in neutral countries had been attacked with nuclear weapons. Then in the entry for 1998 "In Europe, France and Belgium had been hit the lightest and stood virtually alone in maintaining a semblance of internal order throughout the cataclysm". The second edition has "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO".

This quote is from two separate paragraphs (separated by four paragraphs in fact) with different contexts. Although it could be implied from this that France was targeted by nuclear weapons, it doesn't specifically state that France was hit by nuclear weapons or does it give a list of French targets either. Other references to France from this book and other SB imply that France survived the nuclear war in very good shape. If it was targeted by nuclear weapons this would not be the case.

The way I look at it is through French reactions before, during and after the nuclear exchanges.

In 1996 France withdraws from NATO is response to German Reunification through a West German military invasion of East Germany.

From RDF SB. Page 15

"The French regarded the West German invasion of East Germany as lunatic. When the American, Canadian, and British troops crossed the East German frontier in support of the West Germans, the French were among the most vocal opponents of the move and were the first to officially withdraw from NATO, and declare their neutrality."

After this and before the nuclear exchanges France does not cooperate in any way with NATO.

In 1997 there is no direct reference to France being targeted by nuclear weapons. If France was targeted then you would expect the French who are a nuclear power to retaliate against whoever attacked France. As far as I know there is no canon reference to the French using any nuclear weapons against the Soviet Union or NATO. The British who have a similar sized nuclear arsenal to France and who were attacked by Soviet weapons, did retaliate against the Soviet Union with nuclear SLBM's and also launched a nuclear airstrike on the Kola Peninsula in 1998. Why did France not attack the Soviet Union with their nuclear arsenal?

In 1998 the French invade Germany and the Netherlands

From Going Home SB, Page 29

"In January 1998, the French government authorized its army to occupy all territory west of the Rhine to secure a solid geographic barrier and guarantee its frontiers against the hordes of refugees and renegade military personnel which were swarming across the border. In 2000, the French army continues to occupy this area."

If France was attacked by Soviet nuclear weapons you would expect the French to have rejoined NATO and send their army into Germany to support NATO against the Warsaw Pact. But they invade and occupy the German Rhineland the whole of the Netherlands south of the Rhine River. Germany and the Netherlands are NATO countries

In the summer of 1998 they send a fully equipped army Corp with air and naval support to the Middle East.

From RDF SB. Page 8

"On August 24th, the lead ships of a French troop convoy sailed into Al Kuwayt Harbor. Their cargo was the 9th Marine Division. Two days later, forward elements of the French 11th Airborne Division began landing in Djibouti. The French government made it clear that these forces were there to assist the host governments in maintaining order."

From RDF SB. Page 19

" The governments of Kuwayt and Saudi Arabia gave permission for France to station troops in their countries (to the chagrin of some Americans in the region). The Paris government responded quickly and by fall of 1998, the 9th Marine Infantry Division and the 2nd Brigade of the 11th Airborne Division were in the region along with supporting elements. There they have remained, providing a visible symbol of France's commitment to the stability of the region"

The French were in remarkably good shape to send a force of this size to the Middle East if they were hit by nuclear weapons. Also France didn't side with either American or Soviet forces in the Middle East, playing a strictly neutral role in the fighting. If either the U.S. or the Soviet Union had attacked France with nuclear weapons you would expect the French to be fighting either of them in the Middle East.

Also..

From RDF SB. Page 19

"In 1998 the Franco-Belgian Union was formed, Senegal and Djibouti became member nations"

France has now created a new power bloc in Europe and Africa, and by default with other French territories in Latin America, the Caribbean, the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, that is separate or even rival to NATO and the Warsaw Pact. For me this implies that France was not targeted by nuclear weapons. In regards to Sweden I have not seen any direct reference to a nuclear attack on Sweden either.

[The Dark]

The issue about France being targeted or not by nuclear weapons in the Twilight War has been frequently argued on this site and others for years. I can remember arguing about this online on the old 2300AD sites nearly 20 years ago. Nobody could ever agree because there is no direct canon reference to France being targeted by nuclear weapons in any sourcebook, or at least no one has so far come across it or a list of French nuclear targets. Two main conclusions were reached. The first is that France was not targeted by nuclear weapons, and the second was that France was lightly targeted by nuclear weapons, i.e. some oil refineries and nothing else. I support the first conclusion.If John Farson's summary of the Finnish books (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1977) is correct, the second conclusion is canon - there were nuclear strikes, but primarily along the coast.

[RN7]

If John Farson's summary of the Finnish books (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1977) is correct, the second conclusion is canon - there were nuclear strikes, but primarily along the coast.

The answer to that question would be if the Finnish Sourcebook was published by Game Designer's Workshop which is basically what canon is?

[The Dark]

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille). I don't remember France getting any mentions in v1 other than two sentences in the Referee's Manual and a tiny portion of the map in Going Home.

For v2.2, it's explicitly stated on page 226 that "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks...", so for that timeline, France was nuked unless the timeline from the core rules is tossed.

[RN7]

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille). I don't remember France getting any mentions in v1 other than two sentences in the Referee's Manual and a tiny portion of the map in Going Home

I've seen that map and it also shows the Belgian towns of Antwerp and Ghent as ruined alongside Lille. Another map in Going Home also shows the German city of Hamburg in ruins, and we know from Going Home itself (page 21) that Hamburg wasn't subject to a nuclear attack as it was so heavily bombed beforehand that the Soviet spared it. From previous discussions about the map that shows Lille in ruins on other forums, the consensus was that Lille was targeted by vengeful German and Dutch bombing raids during and after the French occupation of the Rhineland.

For v2.2, it's explicitly stated on page 226 that "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks...", so for that timeline, France was nuked unless the timeline from the core rules is tossed.

If you want to go with V2 then France was hit by nuclear strikes and the country really isn't in very good shape which can be seen in the description of France on Page 225. If that is the case then the French will not be sending the FAR to the Middle East as they haven't the military ability to do so, and the French also have little or no influence in Africa or over their colonies around the world. I prefer V1

[Raellus]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Farson's Finnish Sourcebook was published by FFE/GDW, at least not outside of Finland. Therefore, I don't think it's canon.

[kato13]

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille).

There is a refinery in LILLE (or at least there was one in WWII)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NPMHBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=french+oil+refinery+lille&source=bl&ots=rHEygtFuak&sig=VA9NmlcD4ludqwfCDpVwy6oboMs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF0e6x4tLWAhXLZiYKHUEEDksQ6AEIQjAH#v=on epage&q=french%20oil%20refinery%20lille&f=false

According to its wikipedia page it is considered to be the most Flemish French city, so it also could have been destroyed by rioting at some point.

[Rainbow Six]

AFAIK the Finnish material is based on the original GDW material but is effectively a standalone work with its own modified timeline. I certainly don't think it's canon.

To the best of my knowledge GDW never published anything that definitively stated one way or the other whether Sweden (or France for that matter) was nuked, although there's the occasional nugget of gold buried in Challenge magazines (e.g. the article on Italy for 2300 that mentions the Papacy relocating to Peruggia). If there is anything I suspect that's where it would be.

Personally, I think limited strikes on Sweden (and France) are both well within the realm of feasibility / canon.

[RN7]

There is a refinery in LILLE (or at least there was one in WWII)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NPMHBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=french+oil+refinery+lille&source=bl&ots=rHEygtFuak&sig=VA9NmlcD4ludqwfCDpVwy6oboMs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF0e6x4tLWAhXLZiYKHUEEDksQ6AEIQjAH#v=on epage&q=french%20oil%20refinery%20lille&f=false

According to its wikipedia page it is considered to be the most Flemish French city, so it also could have been destroyed by rioting at some point.


I don't think there is an oil refinery in Lille anymore, at least not one that I can find anyhow. The nearest French refinery is I believe in Dunkirk. A lot of French oil refineries seem to have closed or are not in operation at the moment, certainly compared to 20 years ago. Probably something to do with the proliferation of French nuclear reactors which has replaced a lot of oil and fossil fuel sources for electricity in France.

[RN7]

Personally, I think limited strikes on Sweden (and France) are both well within the realm of feasibility / canon.

I think its based on your personal preference for V1 or V2.

I've always preferred V1 as the Soviet Union and the timeline and history is less complicated. In V2 there was a limited nuclear strike on France, but with that there is a bit of a trade off with the military power that France would have in the aftermath. I've always liked a big French force in the Middle East and in other locations, which gives an extra component to the traditional two dimensional US-Soviet rivalry.

[Antenna]

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

[Raellus]

Welcome back! We've missed you.

[Olefin]

I don't think there is an oil refinery in Lille anymore, at least not one that I can find anyhow. The nearest French refinery is I believe in Dunkirk. A lot of French oil refineries seem to have closed or are not in operation at the moment, certainly compared to 20 years ago. Probably something to do with the proliferation of French nuclear reactors which has replaced a lot of oil and fossil fuel sources for electricity in France.

Per the 2nd edition France was definitely nuked - and its seems to imply that Lyons and Paris were nuked or at least heavily damaged - see the comment about Marseilles

"Despite being neutral, France was subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine. A free-fire zone (commonly called La Zone Morte - the Dead Zone) has been established within 50km (31 miles) east of the Rhine. Officially, the border is closed to non-French citizens, but the guards are generally open to bribes. The border with Spain is closed, but often crossed by smugglers. The Union Corse (Corsican criminal underworld) dominate a thriving black market in the region. The government is increasingly repressive, but life in most areas is tolerable.
Some areas, particularly the mountains, are in open rebellion, and martial law is in effect. The government in the southern areas is corrupt and dominated by the Union Corse. Marseilles is the largest undamaged city in the country, though it is in a bad state compared to its pre-war condition. Some trade between Europe and the eastern Mediterranean passes through the city, which is entirely run by the Union Corse.

Most of France is organised (by the French government and military in most areas, by the Union Corse in some southern areas). A few areas in the mountains are disputed or independent. The area between the old border and the Rhine is a combination of terrorised, insular and cantonments. La Zone Morte is devastated"

[Olefin]

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

Saw this posted on a wiki about Sweden - did this come from your pages? They actually had you listed as an external source

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/Sweden

[Olefin]

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

Great to see you back on! Have you ever considered trying to publish what you have officially on Sweden? Marc Miller is looking for more material for new official releases - both Raellus and I have released new official modules/sourcebooks for the game

[Antenna]

Hi again

I checked RN7s OOB couple of days ago, it is good for as an OOB for the era around 1965 to 1972. An OOB that I had was built around a history from 1995 to 2000 (soon it will be aviable again). In my OOB for the T2k pages of mine, around 40 to 50% of the brigades will be there. During, as started around 1968 to 2000, the downsized armed forces was an idea from socialdemocrates to build an expert armed forces.

The history for the downzised forces is 38 brigades (1965) to 4 active battalions and 2 in reserve (2015)

Finally the politics in Sweden has understood that the old conscriptions armed forces is the way we defend Sweden, Conscriptions was voted from all parties as a yes, only the Leftpary (communists) voted No or put down their votes.

So Swedish armed forces with around 25 to 32 brigades will take 5 to 8 years.

Back to the T2k story of mine.
Sweden bought MTLBs and BMP-1 from reunited Germany and Leopard 2A4 before the hostilities broke out.

The 120 of Leopards 2A5 wasn't bought to Swedish Armed forces (in top of my mind they was bought 2001 or 2002 in real world)

The link to RN7s OOB of Sweden wasnt åosted due to fumble fingers but it is the 19 post in this thread

Antenna

[Raellus]

Antenna, what do you think of the proposed relatively intact Sweden attempting to spread its influence to northern Poland and the Baltic republics?

[RN7]

I checked RN7s OOB couple of days ago, it is good for as an OOB for the era around 1965 to 1972.

My OOB for Swedish forces is sourced in the main from IISS Military Balance for 1990-1991 and 1991-1992.

[Antenna]

My OOB for Swedish forces is sourced in the main from IISS Military Balance for 1990-1991 and 1991-1992.

Well, good that you are alive and well =)

You probably have better sources than me. for that 30+ Armed brigades, today it is in a build up faces from those 6 battalions.

Antenna

[RN7]

for that 30+ Armed brigades, today it is in a build up faces from those 6 battalions.

Today Sweden couldn't manage to raise an army that size. The current Swedish army has less than 7,000 active troops of two brigades with nine combat battalions and three companies, and another seven support battalions and four companies. But they also have 40 Home Guard battalions in reserve

[Antenna]

Antenna, what do you think of the proposed relatively intact Sweden attempting to spread its influence to northern Poland and the Baltic republics?

Well the lack of fuel to stahe that operation makes it impossible to do.

[Olefin]

Sweden has no oil production of its own - it does have four oil refineries but at least two of them would probably be targets based on the size of oil refineries hit worldwide

These two might still be around but not sure where the smaller Gothenburg refinery is located in relation to the Preem one

Gothenburg Refinery (78,000 bpd refining capacity)
Nynäshamn Refinery (90,000 bpd refining capacity)

The two Preem refineries would probably be taken out by now - either using conventional attack or nukes

Gothenburg Refinery (125,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)
Lysekil Refinery (220,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)

[RN7]

Sweden has no oil production of its own - it does have four oil refineries but at least two of them would probably be targets based on the size of oil refineries hit worldwide

These two might still be around but not sure where the smaller Gothenburg refinery is located in relation to the Preem one

Gothenburg Refinery (78,000 bpd refining capacity)
Nynäshamn Refinery (90,000 bpd refining capacity)

The two Preem refineries would probably be taken out by now - either using conventional attack or nukes

Gothenburg Refinery (125,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)
Lysekil Refinery (220,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)


If you attack Sweden which was a neutral country during the Twilight War timeline then Sweden is going to join the war against you (Soviet Union). The Swedish army when fully mobilised was big and well equipped, and it would have been a major factor in the Arctic and Scandinavia. It's entry into the war in Norway and Finland would have had a major impact on operations there, and also possibly on the southern shore of the Baltic. Sweden also had a well trained and equipped air force and navy, designed specifically for operations in Scandinavia and the Baltic Sea.

I can't see the Soviets launching a nuclear attack on Sweden for the above reasons, and also because Swedish forces are at full strength or would still be nearly at that level in the aftermath of a limited nuclear strike on Sweden. However once the war goes nuclear the Soviets might go for the oil refineries to deny them to both Sweden and NATO, and they wouldn't need nuclear weapons to do so. Oil refineries are fairly combustible by nature and a few well placed airstrikes against them could do the job.

Sweden has no crude oil resources and is 100% import dependent. Oil accounts for 28% of Sweden's primary energy supply, although in the 1990's it would have been well over 30%. Renewable energy (mainly hydro) account for 35% and nuclear power accounts for 30%. Hydro and nuclear account for most of Sweden's electricity generation. Although overall oil consumption has declined in Sweden, its use in the transport sector has continued to rise and the armed forces would be highly dependent on it. Currently half of oil imports come from Russia, with rest mainly coming from Norway and Denmark. In the mid-1990's Norway would have been by far the major source of oil imports.

Sweden imports most of its oil through the tanker terminal in Goteborg, with rest coming through Stockholm and Malmo. Oil distribution is largely by road as there are relatively few pipelines due to the small Swedish market. There are five oil refineries in Sweden with a capacity of 407,000 barrels a day. The largest is at Lysekil with a capacity of 210,000 barrels. There are three refineries in Goteborg, and another one at Nynashamn near Stockholm. Sweden also has 30 coastal and inland oil storage facilities located across the country. The largest oil storage depots are at Goteborg, Lysekil, Gavle, Stockholm, Norrkoping and Malmo and account for two thirds of Swedish oil storage capacity.

[Olefin]

The Russians attacked a bunch of neutral countries during the war - they hit France with nukes, a bunch of African countries, nuked Venezuela and Mexico and other countries to deny the US the refineries there

and considering how small Sweden's armed forces are I highly doubt they cared too much about getting attacked by Sweden

[mpipes]

The Soviets routinely violated Swedish waters during the Cold War. The air routes to the Atlantic also run through Swedish air space. Anyone really think the Soviets would respect Swedish borders in a shooting war?

[Raellus]

I do. I don't think they'd push violations too far, simply because they don't need another enemy.

[RN7]

The Russians attacked a bunch of neutral countries during the war - they hit France with nukes, a bunch of African countries, nuked Venezuela and Mexico and other countries to deny the US the refineries there

and considering how small Sweden's armed forces are I highly doubt they cared too much about getting attacked by Sweden

Sweden's armed forces are not small, particularly it army which is by far the most powerful in Scandinavia. Sweden sends that into Norway or Finland, or even against the Kola Peninsula and its game up in the region for the Soviets.

[Olefin]

Sweden has no nukes - the Soviets do. Sweden declares war and they end up with Stockholm sharing Oslo's fate. If the Soviets nuked the French oil centers in V2.2 and got away with it (France having a bunch of nukes of its own) I highly doubt that the Swedish Armed forces would deter them from taking out the biggest Swedish refineries (when Sweden has no nukes)

[RN7]

Sweden has no nukes - the Soviets do. Sweden declares war and they end up with Stockholm sharing Oslo's fate. If the Soviets nuked the French oil centers in V2.2 and got away with it (France having a bunch of nukes of its own) I highly doubt that the Swedish Armed forces would deter them from taking out the biggest Swedish refineries (when Sweden has no nukes)

I'm playing V1 and France want nuked. And in V2 if the Soviets nuke Sweden then Sweden enters the war against them, as I don't think they would trust the Soviets not to nuke Stockholm after they have most likely nuked Goteborg which is their second largest city and the major oil refining centre and port.

[Raellus]

I'm sure that we had a thread devoted to this topic but searches of the forum and forum map haven't turned it up.

I can see Sweden becoming a Baltic regional power in the wake of OMEGA and the departure of most [loyal] Soviet forces from Poland. I created a unit of Swedish-sponsored mercenaries that could make an appearance in Northern Poland in early 2001 or so. Here is it, for your perusal. Constructive feedback is welcome.

[RN7]

I'm sure that we had a thread devoted to this topic but searches of the forum and forum map haven't turned it up.

I can see Sweden becoming a Baltic regional power in the wake of OMEGA and the departure of most [loyal] Soviet forces from Poland. I created a unit of Swedish-sponsored mercenaries that could make an appearance in Northern Poland in early 2001 or so. Here is it, for your perusal. Constructive feedback is welcome.

I can't open that document Raellus

[Raellus]

I'm sorry, RN7. I'm not sure what the problem is. I am able to open from the link. Do you have a fairly up-to-date copy of Word? I'll convert it to a PDF and attach that. Hopefully, that'll work for you. Please let me know if it doesn't. I may have to contact Kato to ask for a fix. Thanks for letting me know.

[Raellus]

If the Word doc doesn't open for you, hopefully, this PDF will.

[Olefin]

Both worked for me - assume the whole idea for the Swedes is "plausible deniability" with the weapons choice you gave them - i.e. we arent going to see any Swedish armored vehicles show up with them. How about the Bv206 - it was in use with multiple countries and could be something that doesnt scream "The Swedes are here!"

[RN7]

If the Word doc doesn't open for you, hopefully, this PDF will.

That worked fine thanks

[RN7]

I'm sure that we had a thread devoted to this topic but searches of the forum and forum map haven't turned it up.

I can see Sweden becoming a Baltic regional power in the wake of OMEGA and the departure of most [loyal] Soviet forces from Poland. I created a unit of Swedish-sponsored mercenaries that could make an appearance in Northern Poland in early 2001 or so. Here is it, for your perusal. Constructive feedback is welcome.



You in fact started that this thread

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5513

[Raellus]

I thought I did but I couldn't find it. Thanks. I will merge these two threads presently.

[Raellus]

I figured this would be a more on-topic place to continue the discussion of Sweden in v4.

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[pansarskott]

For those not familiar with the area. Distance Stockholm - Arlanda by car is 40 km.

Naval and airborne landings:

4553

[Raellus]

What follows is an addendum to v1 canon (to bring Sweden into the war on behalf of NATO), for the niche crowd that would like to campaign in Sweden, but prefer the v1 timeline to that provided by 4e. For the sake of edition synergy, I used a bit of the 4e background- namely the primary Soviet units involved in the invasion of Sweden and their respective landing sites. For ease of reference, v1 canon is italicized.

Northern Front, Winter 1996 - Autumn 1997

By the closing weeks of 1996, the Baltic Sea is essentially a Soviet Lake. Pact Naval [air and sea] forces have been able to sweep the Baltic of NATO naval forces. Only land-based NATO air forces and a handful of diesel submarines limit PACT freedom of navigation.

To avoid NATO air power, Pact naval vessels and aircraft routinely enter Swedish territorial waters. Stockholm protests vociferously via diplomatic channels, to no avail. Incidents occur, a few desultory shots are exchanged in the air and at sea. On DATE, Swedish ASW helicopters depth charge a Soviet Tango Class diesel submarine, damaging it and forcing it to surface. Survivors are rescued and interned by the Swedes. Tension builds, but Stockholm refuses to order full mobilization of its military forces in order to avoid further provocation.

By Spring 1997, most Soviet Forces have been pushed out of Northern Norway (isolated pockets left behind continue to resist, as best they can). NATO attempts to advance on Murmansk through northern Finland, without first securing permission from the Finns. Finland strongly asserts its neutrality by attacking the NATO spearhead, stopping it cold (this abrupt halt was more a result of surprise at Finland’s sanguine response, than due to the casualties that it inflicted). Remnants of the Soviet North Sea Fleet destroy a NATO flotilla closing on the Kola Peninsula but suffer crippling losses in turn. Despite its use of force against NATO forces in the north of the country, Finland refuses to ally with the PACT.

Facilitated by numerous tactical nuclear strikes, and reinforcements transferred from the Far Eastern Front, a summer 1997 land offensive in Poland pushes NATO forces back towards the German border, increasing Pact control of the Baltic by making it more difficult for land-based NATO air forces to operate over the region.

Stymied in the far north, Moscow makes the fateful decision to invade Sweden. Long-laid contingency plans for such an operation are dusted off and the Soviet’s last strategic reserve force in Northwestern Europe* (1 VDV airborne division, 1 Naval Infantry Brigade, and 2 recently rebuilt Motor Rifles divisions), are allocated to the task. By invading Sweden, Moscow hopes to knock a troublesome, only nominally-neutral nation out of the war and, more importantly, allow Soviet forces to outflank the NATO units holding firm in northern Norway. The conquest of southern Sweden would also strengthen PACT control of the Baltic Sea, and pose an increased threat to Denmark and NATO’s long left flank in Central Europe.

Mustering its remaining naval and air assets in the region, the PACT launches a large-scale amphibious and airborne invasion- the last of its kind in WWIII- of southeast Sweden. The invasion force is preceded by half-a-dozen precision tactical nuclear strikes (mostly aimed at neutralizing the Swedish air force and navy). Following supplemental conventional airstrikes and a fighter sweep, a Soviet parachute division seizes Arlanda Airport north of Stockholm, while PACT naval infantry battalions land north and south of the capital. Beachheads secured, two motorized rifle divisions arrive by sea during the next few days, and PACT forces begin marching on Stockholm. The Swedish government appeals to NATO for help.

NATO is taken aback by this unexpected development, but the alliance immediately susses out the strategic threat to Norway and Denmark. Preparations for a counter-invasion of Sweden begin.

Despite an overall high state of readiness, Swedish forces are caught out by the surprise Soviet attack. At the time, Sweden’s defense posture was primarily oriented towards the far north- the wilderness frontier region near the borders with Finland and Norway. Several active-duty brigades were on deployment in Northern Norrland, ready to defend Sweden’s territorial integrity in the event that the fighting between NATO, Finnish, and Soviet forces should spill over. Redeployment towards the capital begins almost at once. However, the armored and mechanized brigades will have to transit several hundred miles of wilderness in order to meet the main Soviet threat around Stockholm. During that long road march, the leading armored brigade is decimated by an air-dropped tactical nuclear bomb, temporarily halting the strung-out column.

Meanwhile, Sweden’s Total Defense strategy is belatedly put into effect, and full mobilization begins. Available Swedish forces quickly rally, putting up fierce resistance to the Pact advance, fighting hard to buy time for reserve units to gear up and for outside assistance to arrive. Swedish defense forces outnumber the Soviet invaders on the ground, but the latter have the advantage of being able to use tactical nuclear weapons without worrying about the Swedes answering in-kind. Consequently, concentrated Swedish mechanized formations of regimental strength or greater are decimated before they can mount large-scale counterattacks. The Swedish military is forced to fight a more guerilla-style campaign…

*Pre-war strategic plans called for this force to mount an airborne and amphibious invasion of Denmark’s Jutland Peninsula.


Adventure Handout: Death of a Division- Escape from Escape from Örebro

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=6522&highlight=Death+Division

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