Storing Food in T2K

[Mohoender]

I got that idea from the thread on Cuisine. We are all concerned about what to eat but what about storing it. With electrical power gone, you can forget about fridge.

Here are some methods I can think of:

- Salting or smoking would be the first one but that is working only for fish and meat.

- For the fruits you can make Jam, plunge them in alcohol or dry them.

- You can use canned food but finding the right container might quickly be a problem.

- For some fruits such as apple, you can store them in specific type of buildings (that's fairly simple) under proper conditions (that's also true for potatoes).

- Another interesting thing (providing that the weather gets colder) would be to build an ice well. A well (15-20 meters deep) that you slowly fill with water during winter. Then, you'll have ice during the warm period.

Of course, you also have to protect your storage from all type of scavangers (small animals, insects, humans...)

Do you have any more ideas or do you know any other method?

[Rupert Willies]

Depending on where you live, the water could still be cold during summer. If you live by a mountain a river coming from it could be cold enough to chill your brew, even during august.
A deep lake can be very cold at the bottom. If you really need to keep something cold, you could lower it to the bottom, and keep it there for long periods of time. It would just take some extra time to retrieve it.

"Hey, surprise guests! Just give me an hour, and I'll get you folks some chilled pate from my lake-storage"

If you have sun, you can also utilize evaporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler) to cool a container.

[Earthpig]

before refrigeration they cut ice off lakes moved them to Ice sheds storing them buried in sawdust which kept them available most of the year.....I have found ice, in July, under gravel that had been dug out the winter before.:cool:

[pmulcahy11b]

Even in the Paleolithic Middle East and East Africa, lots of food was stored and kept fresh by simply digging pits and lining them with clay. (Granted, the climate in the Middle East and Africa was much more mild back then, but in East Africa back then you still had a semidesert.)

[pmulcahy11b]

Depending on where you live, the water could still be cold during summer. If you live by a mountain a river coming from it could be cold enough to chill your brew, even during august.

In the winter, it's even easier -- we had a lot of snow days in Kansas, and one week when we had a blizzard and the power was out, we just stored the cold drinks and frozen foods outside the back door against the wall and piled snow on top of it. In no time it was six feet under snow, and it kept quite well until the power came back. It probably could have lasted months had the blizzard gone on.

[Earthpig]

In the winter, it's even easier -- we had a lot of snow days in Kansas, and one week when we had a blizzard and the power was out, we just stored the cold drinks and frozen foods outside the back door against the wall and piled snow on top of it. In no time it was six feet under snow, and it kept quite well until the power came back. It probably could have lasted months had the blizzard gone on.

Be careful if it get's too cold...I stored some diet coke(probably why it happened) out on the porch...one day, while sitting at home watching TV, I heard some loud popping noises, by the time I figured it out ....my 2 cases of pop were mostly exploded on the door:(

[Rupert Willies]

Same thing happened to me a month back; two six packs of beer exploded on my veranda. Observed a bottle cap on the roof later.


Be careful if it get's too cold...I stored some diet coke(probably why it happened) out on the porch...one day, while sitting at home watching TV, I heard some loud popping noises, by the time I figured it out ....my 2 cases of pop were mostly exploded on the door:(

[Targan]

Here in Australia before there was electricity in all houses there were three methods that were popular for keeping food cool in the absence of a fridge - ice boxes (the ice man would come around with a cart and deliver blocks of ice daily), Coolgardie safes (a primative fridge that used evaporation via water trickling over pieces of cloth) and kerosene-powered friges.

[firewalker]

we had a lot of snow days in Kansas, and one week when we had a blizzard and the power was out, we just stored the cold drinks and frozen foods outside the back door against the wall and piled snow on top of it. \.

we trid that to last big snow/outeg we had worked real good......the dog proved problmatic though.:D

[jester]

I am shocked shocked and amazed!

You guys haven't mentioned Freeze Drying or Sun Drying. Or regular deydrated methods. I mean they are considered top of the line camping foods today, and one of the oldest methods there is.

Also, JERKING ala Beef Jerky and Pemican

I mean look at what we use today?

Instant potatoes
Rasins
Craisons
Fruit rolls
Dried Fruit
Trail Mix

Those are just a few examples. And one sundried is good for sunny climes, freeze drying for cold climes. And the only thing needed is to prepare the items for drying, and then protect them from insects and vermin so they can dry in the sun and wind.

[TiggerCCW UK]

What would you need to do to prepare food for drying? Its an area I'm completely ignorant of, but it could provide an easyish means of preserving large amounts of food without having to use additional resources, I think. What about smoking meats and fish as well? There's a museum near here that has and old smoke house at it and again I think its a fairly easy way of preserving food.

[jester]

For say fruit and vegetables, simpy cut in small pieces you can remove seeds and large portions that are liquid <like the insides of a tomato> you can also peel them or skin them, then lay flat to dry.

You can also place them on screens so air flows and they dry quicker, or you can make mesh flats or racks from loosely woven flat pieces of wood or sticks or twigs or even leaves. Let air or sundry and flip them over and repeat until they are dry which they should usualy be brittle.

You can make a past of tomato, or fruit puree ansd let it dry into a leather or skin like a fruit roll up, these you can then tear off the desired portion and soak in water for use later. I have freinds who do this with tomato sauce.

Soups and stews this can be done too.

The key things is cutting them into uniform size, air circulation, and protecting them from insects and windblown debris. Its that simple.

As for smoking,

Soak the meat in a brine for a period of time, 24 hours, cut into uniform pieces, thin is good, then hang in a smoke chamber, this can be a cardboard box, or a metal trashcan or an old refrigerator.

Have your smoke going, this can be a candle burning under a pan of woodchips that have been soaked in water, I usualy use a 50/50 mix of half wet half dry, fruit wood and nut woods are the best, never use pine type trees or citrus or eucalytus. And hang your meat about 12 to 16 inches from the base of the small smoldering fire as you want the smoke not the heat to cook and preserve what you want. Racks or hanging from hooks are the best since it gives better coverage of the surface area.

And salting, the meat can be placed in a layer of salt in a box or barrel, covered in salt and then another layer and on and on until done. Of course the item should be hung for a bit to let moisture drain away.

And brining, a salt and water and spice solution, usualy used for pork like salt pork, uniform pieces of pork or the meat of choice <beef is corned beef> and let it soak for several days, or weeks.

The thing with salting is, you will need to presoak and cook out the salt that was used to preserve the meat.

And pickling:

Vinegar, spices and your medium fish, pork, vegetables. Brew up your vinegar and spices like tea, then pour it over the items you want to pickle, seal in a crock or jar and leave alone for 2 weeks or longer so the item gets pickled. And these should remain preserved for several weeks or months once cured.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Thanks for that - lots of good info there.

[Littlearmies]

I've just been reading a book called "Salt: A World History" by Mark Kaplansky which, despite it's rather anorak subject title is fascinating - it has recipes for salting and using salt and making salt. I rather think that salt producing areas would become rather valuable locations for trade and settlement. I'd recommend it to anyone.

You can also pick up lovely tidbits like where the word "salacious" comes from!

[pmulcahy11b]

You can also pick up lovely tidbits like where the word "salacious" comes from!

Oh, that's easy! It's from Star Wars Episode 6...

[Slappy]

This can also be a useful reason for trade. Salt can only be mined in limited areas inland and produced on the coast. Salt trading would be one of the major commercial enterprises in T2k. I haven't thought about it that much, but it seems there might be the highest demand in the fall as communities prepare for the winter and 'salt away' food. Why not kill that extra hog in October and salt it for eating later instead of feeding it all winter?

There are some spectacular salt mines southeast of Krakow by the way.

[Littlearmies]

Oh, that's easy! It's from Star Wars Episode 6...
Actually its from the Romans - they said that a guy who was in love (or lust) was "salted up" ("salax" in Latin) and salacious stems from salax. I find stuff like that fascinating so I'm really enjoying the book.

In the UK Cheshire is the centre of salt mining (actually it's often that you drill down and take the brine from the well - it's why salt drilling was the precursor technology for the oil industry, that and the fact that salt domes are an indicator for oil - you then reduce the brine to below 24% salt solution at which time salt crystals begin to precipitate). In the US it used to be Onondaga in upstate NY, Kanawha in the South.

Using evaporation in large tanks is a slower technology but if you have an area with a good climate (south end of San Francisco Bay) it's quite possible. Otherwise you need to build some basic technology, in a coastal area with fuel and transport links.

My view of the Twilight World is that, blessed with the knowledge of how to do things but not the equipment (or energy) to do them on a modern large scale, we would revert to 18th and 19th Century methods of production at least at first.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Theres a pretty big salt mine just outside Belfast as well;

http://www.irishsaltmining.com/home.htm

Although with this being designed to produce rocksalt for de icing work I would imagine you'd need to refine it for use in food.

[kalos72]

A good thread I would like to bump with a question...

How would you actually store it? Cans wont be an option unless you can make new ones. Glass jars? Clay pots?

Considering most idiots would discard things like a good mason jar or a tin can...what would you do?

How about for military forces where mobility is a concern?

[simonmark6]

Large scale storage: Barrels, relatively easy to make and useful for a number of purposes.
Small scale storage/vital stores: Stoneware jars are possible but you could make some tin or steel cans, it wouldn't be impossible using low tech but hygene standards might be a problem.

[kalos72]

Does anyone have any numbers on barrels both storage and production by chance? Maybe some HARN materials that would help?

[simonmark6]

Cooperage is a specialised skill and lots of wooden barrels might be a big ask now I think of it. However, big metal barrels might be achievable.

Rolling fairly large and thin bits of recycled iron or tin would be fairly simple. Electro tinplate this and weld it shut. Then weld the botton shust with a tinplated disk and then fill the can. Weld the top shut and you should have a reasonable product. It's large scale and manpower intensive but should be achievable, the metal is easily available, then you need a way of making a salt solution of the tin and a generator.

Again, this should be achievable with enough people and resources. In smaller societies, reusing cans migt be a possibility.

[GDWFan]

Lots of good ideas have already been mentioned here but Ill try to add a few.

Whole Grains would be very valuable food sources. Raw Wheat, Corn, Soy, Rice. These can be milled crushed and ground into many useful products.
They are stored in bags, buckets, garbage cans, rubbermaid containers, lots of household plastic containers would take on new value.

Nitrogeon sealed grains are the longest lasting that I know of, suck the air out of the container and add inert gas to create an oxygen free container.

Non-Hybrid Seeds would also hold great value to food in general for a settlement. These seeds are popular with the survivalists out there and could possibly be found?

I think you will see alot of coolers being used to store foods, knowledge of brewing beers and wines and distilling of grain alcohols for a drink that can be stored and keeps for long periods. So I would think recycling and reclaimation of old glass beer and soda bottles could be seen.

I also think that rabbit, squirrel and other small rodents would be cooped and breed for food. If chickens could be bred in my opinion Eggs would be one of humanities saviors, as much protien as a cut of meat and they take around a day or two to develop. If eggs could be produced in any large scale they could provide alot of the sorely missed vitamins of a meat based diet. They can be boiled and kept for sometime, the chinese bury them in ash and eat the month aged egg known as 100 year old eggs and you can pickle them for even longer keeping.

In addition to drying, salting, jellying, smoking and dehydrating these could give you a few options

[kato13]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

[jester]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.


You can use hot water and bleach to sterilize plastic bottles.

[WallShadow]

This can also be a useful reason for trade. Salt can only be mined in limited areas inland and produced on the coast. Salt trading would be one of the major commercial enterprises in T2k.
<SNIP>
There are some spectacular salt mines southeast of Krakow by the way.
There are several major salt mines in the US, one in Hutchinson KS and another _under_ Lake Erie accessed through a portal in Cleveland OH.Many have already followed the Twilight canon from Poland's salt mines in that sections of them are reserved for storage or even manufacturing. IIRC the Hutchinson Mine had machine tools and industrial equipment stored there as a hedge against nuclear war. Now where have we heard something like that before?

[Raellus]

There's an amazing salt mine near Krakow (I can't remember if it's detailed in the FCoK module) that's on UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites.

http://www.wieliczka-saltmine.com/

I passed up an opportunity to go there in order to spend more time in Krakow itself. I can't decide if I regret that decision or not.

Salt's going to be extremely important in the T2KU because of its usefulness in preserving food. I can see it becoming like a form of currency. It has been used as such in the past.

[dragoon500ly]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

[Slappy]

Confit is a simple process perfected by the Basques that will allow meat to last for months in a cool place with far less salt needed than traditional curing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confit

It is also delicious, probably a rarity in post 2K cuisine.

[swaghauler]

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

The best bottles to use if you have to "boil" using a plastic bottle are Gatorade G2 bottles. They are tough enough to use as regular water bottles and won't melt even if you hang them only 6" above your fire. They are some of the thickest plastic bottles made today.

The fastest method of purification without boiling would be to use either Tincture of Iodine or ordinary household Bleach. The Iodine will not kill everything and won't remove Radiological or Chemical (both Industrial and Chemical Weapon residue) contamination. Chlorine will kill almost all pathogens but not Radiological or Chemical contamination as well. Chlorine is definitely the better of the two purifiers. Ironically, BOTH chemicals use a ratio of 2 drops per quart of water. They both require 30 minutes to purify the water as well.
To Purify This Much Water................... This Many Drops of Purifier:
1 Quart of Water.................................... 2 Drops of Purifier
1 Gallon of Water .................................. 8 Drops or 1/8 Teaspoon
5 Gallons of Water ................................. 32 Drops or 1/2 Teaspoon
10 Gallons of Water ................................ 64 Drops or 1 Teaspoon
55 Gallons of Water ................................ 352 Drops or 5 & 1/2 Teaspoons

THESE DROPS MUST BE METERED PRECISELY! Both agents are poisonous to humans in too large a dosage. The water should also be filtered through a cloth to remove particulates as these will slow down the chemical reaction. You can have 4 parts per million of Chlorine. Iodine's safe levels vary from person to person (many people are allergic to Iodine).

[swaghauler]

One company who's website should be visited is CMG. They produce canned meats with a shelf life of TEN YEARS (this is the same as "old school" MREs boys and girls). I have 4 cases of Bacon stashed away as I type this. Each can has a pound of Bacon in it, and it tastes EXACTLY like Sugardale Bacon. That's right, this "survival ration" is actually EDIBLE. The 10 year shelf life blows away the 2 year shelf life of normal canned goods. CMG has several foods available too.

[WallShadow]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

[Apache6]

Large numbers of MREs are usually shipped in CONEX boxes (8x20x8), which are usually waterproof. The individual packaging is pretty tough and I believe would survive 2.5 years underwater. The worst threat to MREs being stored is extreme heat, the underwater situation would at least prevent that.

If I'd been living on rat and dandelion stew for 2 years, I think that 3 year old MREs fished out of a sunken ship would be a delight.

I think salvaging a sunken transport could provide all kinds of great treasures for a PC group. The container next to the MREs might contain ammo, radio batteries and all kinds of other stuff.

Or it could be container after container of extreme cold weather gear destined for the Marines in Norway, which is not too useful for the PC group operating their coast guard cutter as a salvage ship out of the Florida keys.

[swaghauler]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

Even normal canned goods (like Campbell's soup) are proofed against salt water immersion IF the food container is uncompromised. The cans can rust after about a year submerged in water but still be edible. The expiration date is a good indicator of how long it will take for a container to fail due to moisture. MREs are proofed HIGHER than canned goods against "moisture corrosion" or spoilage IF the package isn't punctured. They could sit on the ocean floor for 5 years and NOT SPOIL.

[WallShadow]

"Gold? &^%(#&~*@)!% the gold! There's _FOOD_ in them thar hulls!" :p

[swaghauler]

"Gold? &^%(#&~*@)!% the gold! There's _FOOD_ in them thar hulls!" :p

This forum needs a damned LIKE button.

[rcaf_777]

Canned Cheeseburger
Canned Rattlesnake
Canned Chicken
Canned Brown Bread
Canned Fried Chicken
Canned Creamed Armadillo
Canned Creamed Possum
Canned Sushi
The Candwich (Sandwitch in a can)
Spam
Spam with Bacon
Spam Turkey
Ribs in a Can
Canned Fish Mouths
Canned Silkworm Pupae
Aerosol Cheese
Canned Autralian Processed Cheese
Canned Butter
Canned Ground Beef
Ova Easy Egg Crystals
Yoder's canned meats
Dry Whole Milk Powder
Canned Chicken Breast
Preserved Dutch Butter (Salted Butter)
Canned Pulled Pork

[WallShadow]

I did a little research, the channels dredged up to the MOTB (Military Ocean Terminal at Bayonne) docks are indeed 50 feet.
And, with a little help from NukeMap v.2, the docks are within a heat flash radius that would cause 3rd degree burns to unprotected skin.
AND just to the south-by-west (that is, to the windward) there is a tank farm that is currently labelled "PDQ Plastics, Inc." A fire here would cast huge clouds of toxic smoke across the area.
If the Linden 1.25 M is off a little to the eastward, the whole thing gets even more ugly for the Terminal.

[swaghauler]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years?
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings? Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold? IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be?

I would ask Medic to chime in here as well, but most containers (and people) are pretty resistant to pressure down to 4 atmospheres (about 40 meters or slightly more than 135 ft in depth). Depending on the contents of a can, it could be pressure resistant to VERY SIGNIFICANT depths. As I have stated above, 1 Atmosphere is equal to 10 meters/33.9 (34ft) feet in depth.

[Bullet Magnet]

As I have stated above, 1 Atmosphere is equal to 10 meters/33.9 (34ft) feet in depth.

Actually, 1.0 atmospheres is sea level. However, you are correct that for each (approximately) 10 meters under the surface of the water, you add another 1.0 atmospheres. So, at 10 meters below water, it would actually be 2.0 Atm.

[swaghauler]

Actually, 1.0 atmospheres is sea level. However, you are correct that for each (approximately) 10 meters under the surface of the water, you add another 1.0 atmospheres. So, at 10 meters below water, it would actually be 2.0 Atm.

Glad you caught that. I was a little rushed as I was waiting to unload. It should actually be 1 Atmosphere INCREASE per 10 meters of WATER DEPTH. This is important because the Specific Gravity of a fluid can change the pressure (in Atmospheres) at depth. For instance, if you were to dive down a 100-meter shaft filled with a liquid chemical denser than water, the pressure would be greater.

[swaghauler]

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.

The best "homemade" dehydrator I ever saw was comprised of:

1 solar blanket
1 bug net
2 saw horses
2 old aluminum framed screen doors

The screen doors were laid flat on the saw horses to form a rack on which the food was "sandwiched" in between them on wax paper with 1" gaps between the lines of wax paper (for air flow). The solar blanket was attached to the back of the doors (where the hinges had been) and laid to the ground under the feet of the saw horses to reflect the sunlight upwards from underneath the two doors. The bug netting was laid over top of the two doors to act as an extra layer of bug/bird protection. The solar blanket would ramp the temperature up on the screen doors to over 120F degrees. The aluminum would absorb and hold the heat. It would dehydrate tomatoes in a day. It was also used to dry seeds for the following year's garden.

Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.

Dehydrating Food In Twilight2000:

Dehydrating food is a skill Easy(2 X Skill): Survival and takes 24 to 48 hours depending on the food item being dehydrated. If stored properly in a dry place at 72F/22C, the food will remain fresh for 1D6+6 months.

Temperature and Food Storage:

Most food using pre-industrial storage/preservation methods will last the longest when stored in a dry place at 72F/22C. A change in temperature of just 20F/11C will double or halve the shelf life of the food in question. At 52F/11C, the food will last TWICE AS LONG. At 92F/33F, the shelf life of stored food will BE HALVED.

[WallShadow]

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.
<SNIP>
Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.


I sometimes dried my sage, basil, and catnip by placing them in the car in paper bags on a hot day. The bags allowed airflow but kept the sun directly off the herbs.

Hmmmm...with a little fudging and jackleg mechanic work---cut several panels out of the car roofs and trunk lids, insert scavanged windshields, maybe install a remote watering supply system--IV tubes or aquarium tubing leading to individual pots or beds. You can make mobile greenhouses to extend your growing/seedling-planting season. Mobile in the sense that if you release the parking brake, the greenhouse can be steered out of shadow into afternoon light.

[.45cultist]

I got that idea from the thread on Cuisine. We are all concerned about what to eat but what about storing it. With electrical power gone, you can forget about fridge.

Here are some methods I can think of:

- Salting or smoking would be the first one but that is working only for fish and meat.

- For the fruits you can make Jam, plunge them in alcohol or dry them.

- You can use canned food but finding the right container might quickly be a problem.

- For some fruits such as apple, you can store them in specific type of buildings (that's fairly simple) under proper conditions (that's also true for potatoes).

- Another interesting thing (providing that the weather gets colder) would be to build an ice well. A well (15-20 meters deep) that you slowly fill with water during winter. Then, you'll have ice during the warm period.

Of course, you also have to protect your storage from all type of scavangers (small animals, insects, humans...)

Do you have any more ideas or do you know any other method?

Initially those Ball jars and lids will probably be the only thing left on the looted or cleaned out store shelves., later, people might be pouring wax on top of food in a variety of bottles and jars, paraffin and the like will be worth their weight to stash away.

[Draq]

https://youtu.be/E7_f-jmmGdQ I'm reposted this from cuisine thread in case someone missed it. There's a tone of these, and he's just one of many ration/nre reviewers. The us Korean war b1&b2 unit episode is the best. Best example of food keeping, and going bad.

[WallShadow]

Initially those Ball jars and lids will probably be the only thing left on the looted or cleaned out store shelves., later, people might be pouring wax on top of food in a variety of bottles and jars, paraffin and the like will be worth their weight to stash away.

And pressure cookers/canners and extra gaskets and weights. Seeing how food can be quickly cooked in a pressure cooker, this would be helpful in fuel savings. Hmmm...multiple focused solar reflectors plus pressure cooker = fuelless rapid cooker?:cool:

Someone has already pointed out that paraffin sealing of jars is only suitable for high-sugar jams and such. You can't preserve veggies that way. Veggies, especially non-acidic ones, need to be pressure canned with good seals. Elsewise, food poisoning or worse: my Junior-High science teacher taught us that the best way to kill yourself is to poorly-can stringbeans, because they have a tendency to generate botullism toxin. Maybe a good way of creating paralyzing poison for a blowgun dart? Or would the required dosage be rather large?

[swaghauler]

Canning is a method of food preservation that has been around since the Napoleonic Wars. It uses a "three piece" jar consisting of a wide mouth mason jar, an inner lid, and a threaded lid that holds the expandable inner lid in place. Everything but the inner lid is reusable. Just increase the item's wear value by 1 for each use until it EXCEEDS 10 (at which point it is unusable).

Water Bath Canning:

This system uses boiling water to seal the canning jars and preserve the food. It requires that the food be acidic in nature to prevent the growth of bacteria as the seal on Water Bath cans is not as strong as pressure canning. Common items that can be Water Bath canned would be:
-Fruit
-Pickles
-Tomatoes

* NEVER use an Aluminum, Copper or Iron pot to boil the jars. A chemical reaction can occur that will ruin your food (or at least discolor it). A Stainless Steel pot is the number one choice here.

To Water Bath can you place the jars in a pot so that water can circulate COMPLETELY around the jars (there are special racks that fit in pots for this) as well as over the top of them. You must leave room in the jars for expansion of the food and water in them. You will boil for about 30 Minutes (varies with altitude) and remove the cans from the pot and let them sit. The jars will "hiss" and "pop" as the inner lids expand and form a vacuum seal. The jars should be allowed to sit and "settle" for 24 hours. This allows the pressure inside the jar to equalize with the outside. You will know if the process was successful if you press on the inner lid (the part that expands) and it DOESN'T move. This means the seal is good. A lid that moves has a bad seal and must be used in just 1D6 days.

Raw/Cold Packed Vegetables: These vegetables will have air trapped inside the food that can escape and cause spoilage. You may store cold packed vegetables for 1D3 Months before they will begin to spoil.

Hot packed Vegetables: These are vegetables that have been cooked (eliminating the air inside the food) and then Water bath canned. These vegetables will last for 1D10 Months before spoilage will begin to set in.

Pressure Canning:

This can be used for ALL foodstuffs as the pressure creates a MUCH STRONGER SEAL than Water Bath Canning. The preparation is exactly the same for Water Bath Canning but you must boil the food in a pressure cooker at a pressure based on your altitude for 10 Minutes. The jars must then settle like those above. They can be checked just like Water Bath jars BUT BE CAREFUL! PRESSURE SEALED JARS CAN EXPLODE IF JOSTLED TOO MUCH. I let them sit for at least 30 minutes before handling them. Any "exploding" food jars will be spectacular but not really capable of causing injury to anyone at least a meter away. The food will be ruined by glass shards, though. Pressure Canned foods will last for 1D6+6 Months when stored in a cool (72F/22C) dry place.

Canning: This is a task Easy(2 X Skill): Cooking, or Routine(1.5 X Skill): Survival. Failure means the food is cooked and must be consumed before it spoils.

Canning Kits:

21 Quart Water Bath Canning Kit: Contains 1 Stainless Steel Pot, 7 Jar Rack, a Wide Mouth Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $60 (V/V), Wt: 4kg, Bulk: 10.

10 Quart Pressure Canning Kit: Contains 1 Pressure (4 1-Quart Jars/7 Pint Jars) Vessel, Rack, Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $259 (V/V), Wt: 6kg, Bulk 10.

30 Quart Pressure Canning Kit: Contains 1 Pressure Vessel (14 1-Quart Jars/19 Pint Jars), Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $379 (C/C), Wt: 12Kg, Bulk 30.

1-Quart Canning Jars With Lids (1 dozen): Price: $25 (V/V), Wt: 2Kg, Bulk: 3 each jar.

1-Pint Canning Jars With Lids (1 dozen): Price: $14 (V/V), Wt: 1Kg, Bulk: 1 per jar.

as always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[unkated]

If I'd been living on rat and dandelion stew for 2 years, I think that 3 year old MREs fished out of a sunken ship would be a delight.


I'll remind you that according to Traveller:2300, one of teh dew positive outcomes of the Twilight War was that humanity discovered how tasty rat was; it was still a favored dish in 2300 - well after the Twilight War.

Uncle Ted

[WallShadow]

I'll remind you that according to Traveller:2300, one of teh dew positive outcomes of the Twilight War was that humanity discovered how tasty rat was; it was still a favored dish in 2300 - well after the Twilight War.

Uncle Ted
And the meat farms on Aurora (Kafer Dawn) were stocked with rabbits, and guinea pigs, which are enormously efficient in meat to bone percentage. Rats, I'd imagine, are pretty close.

[ArmySGT.]

The Candwich (Sandwitch in a can)

I would be afraid to let her out. Unlikely that she went in willingly.

[.45cultist]

And pressure cookers/canners and extra gaskets and weights. Seeing how food can be quickly cooked in a pressure cooker, this would be helpful in fuel savings. Hmmm...multiple focused solar reflectors plus pressure cooker = fuelless rapid cooker?:cool:

Someone has already pointed out that paraffin sealing of jars is only suitable for high-sugar jams and such. You can't preserve veggies that way. Veggies, especially non-acidic ones, need to be pressure canned with good seals. Elsewise, food poisoning or worse: my Junior-High science teacher taught us that the best way to kill yourself is to poorly-can stringbeans, because they have a tendency to generate botullism toxin. Maybe a good way of creating paralyzing poison for a blowgun dart? Or would the required dosage be rather large?
Also MRE's found at 29 Palms by civilian cleaning crews have poisoned more than a few.

[swaghauler]

Also MRE's found at 29 Palms by civilian cleaning crews have poisoned more than a few.

Must have been GEN 1 MREs. They were REALLY HORRENDOUS!!! The drill Sergeants would give us C-Rations with them because you would open them up and 50% of the time mold spores would "explode" from the package. The "pork patty" and the "beef patty" BOTH tasted EXACTLY THE SAME...like Soy.

[WallShadow]

Must have been GEN 1 MREs. They were REALLY HORRENDOUS!!! The drill Sergeants would give us C-Rations with them because you would open them up and 50% of the time mold spores would "explode" from the package. The "pork patty" and the "beef patty" BOTH tasted EXACTLY THE SAME...like Soy.

Didn't you pay attention to the "Front--Toward Enemy" label on those Biological Warfare units?:D

[aspqrz]

Some of you may (or may not) know of the following two actual cases -

1) A London based Providore had taken over an older company (late 80's or early 90's IIRC) and was clearing out its old warehouse. At the very back (or in an out of the way corner) were a quantity of rough packing crates. On opening them, they found rusty cans ... but ones that had not popped (aka 'blown' ... gone off) ... but no labelling.

No one knew their provenance. But, after some searching, they discovered the cans were of Crimean War vintage. They had one of the London based Universities open some of the cans to run tests ... they found that inside was a Beef Broth which, though it was a bit rusty (these were iron cans, not galvanised or plastic coated on the inside) it was perfectly safe.

No. None of the scientists were game to eat it, but they were sure it wasn't contaminated ... they also weren't sure how much caloric value it had, but figured not all that much.

A lot of 'use by' dates are polite fictions ... Chocolate, for example, has one (here in Oz, anyway) ... but Chocolate that's foil wrapped doesn't go off within your lifetime or mine. Worst that happens is that it goes rock hard and develops a milky brown surface skin, but remains perfectly edible.

So you can assume that properly (or fortuitously) stored canned goods will last a lot longer than the Use By date would suggest ... a heck of a lot longer.

2) In Darwin during WW2 a new officer was taking over as Supply Officer on a Bathurst class Corvette and (either a really dumb move or a really smart one, depending) insisted on doing a full inventory before he signed off on receipt.

In one of the vessel's storerooms was a wooden keg. Marked with a broad arrow (aka 'HMG issue'). With what they thought was a serial number. 1815. Couldn't figure out what the heck it was, so they opened it ... inside was salt meat in brine. Still looked good, though the bits that stuck up over the then level of the brine were ... well, mummified. They realised that they '1815' was the YEAR it had been laid down.

As far as they could figure it had been kicked from ship to ship as an old one decommissioned and a new one took on stores ... since 1815.

So don't assume that preserved foods of any sort will go off as fast as the Use By date regime in your country implies they will.

Phil

[CDAT]

Canning is a method of food preservation that has been around since the Napoleonic Wars. It uses a "three piece" jar consisting of a wide mouth mason jar, an inner lid, and a threaded lid that holds the expandable inner lid in place. Everything but the inner lid is reusable. Just increase the item's wear value by 1 for each use until it EXCEEDS 10 (at which point it is unusable).

Water Bath Canning:

This system uses boiling water to seal the canning jars and preserve the food. It requires that the food be acidic in nature to prevent the growth of bacteria as the seal on Water Bath cans is not as strong as pressure canning. Common items that can be Water Bath canned would be:
-Fruit
-Pickles
-Tomatoes

* NEVER use an Aluminum, Copper or Iron pot to boil the jars. A chemical reaction can occur that will ruin your food (or at least discolor it). A Stainless Steel pot is the number one choice here.

To Water Bath can you place the jars in a pot so that water can circulate COMPLETELY around the jars (there are special racks that fit in pots for this) as well as over the top of them. You must leave room in the jars for expansion of the food and water in them. You will boil for about 30 Minutes (varies with altitude) and remove the cans from the pot and let them sit. The jars will "hiss" and "pop" as the inner lids expand and form a vacuum seal. The jars should be allowed to sit and "settle" for 24 hours. This allows the pressure inside the jar to equalize with the outside. You will know if the process was successful if you press on the inner lid (the part that expands) and it DOESN'T move. This means the seal is good. A lid that moves has a bad seal and must be used in just 1D6 days.

Raw/Cold Packed Vegetables: These vegetables will have air trapped inside the food that can escape and cause spoilage. You may store cold packed vegetables for 1D3 Months before they will begin to spoil.

Hot packed Vegetables: These are vegetables that have been cooked (eliminating the air inside the food) and then Water bath canned. These vegetables will last for 1D10 Months before spoilage will begin to set in.

Pressure Canning:

This can be used for ALL foodstuffs as the pressure creates a MUCH STRONGER SEAL than Water Bath Canning. The preparation is exactly the same for Water Bath Canning but you must boil the food in a pressure cooker at a pressure based on your altitude for 10 Minutes. The jars must then settle like those above. They can be checked just like Water Bath jars BUT BE CAREFUL! PRESSURE SEALED JARS CAN EXPLODE IF JOSTLED TOO MUCH. I let them sit for at least 30 minutes before handling them. Any "exploding" food jars will be spectacular but not really capable of causing injury to anyone at least a meter away. The food will be ruined by glass shards, though. Pressure Canned foods will last for 1D6+6 Months when stored in a cool (72F/22C) dry place.

Canning: This is a task Easy(2 X Skill): Cooking, or Routine(1.5 X Skill): Survival. Failure means the food is cooked and must be consumed before it spoils.

Canning Kits:

21 Quart Water Bath Canning Kit: Contains 1 Stainless Steel Pot, 7 Jar Rack, a Wide Mouth Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $60 (V/V), Wt: 4kg, Bulk: 10.

10 Quart Pressure Canning Kit: Contains 1 Pressure (4 1-Quart Jars/7 Pint Jars) Vessel, Rack, Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $259 (V/V), Wt: 6kg, Bulk 10.

30 Quart Pressure Canning Kit: Contains 1 Pressure Vessel (14 1-Quart Jars/19 Pint Jars), Funnel, Ladle, Lid Wand, and Tongs. Jars are NOT included. Price: $379 (C/C), Wt: 12Kg, Bulk 30.

1-Quart Canning Jars With Lids (1 dozen): Price: $25 (V/V), Wt: 2Kg, Bulk: 3 each jar.

1-Pint Canning Jars With Lids (1 dozen): Price: $14 (V/V), Wt: 1Kg, Bulk: 1 per jar.

as always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

What is your thought on the reusable canning jar lids? I do not can, but know some who do, and they are about 50-50 on saying they suck, or are the best thing ever.

[WallShadow]

What is your thought on the reusable canning jar lids? I do not can, but know some who do, and they are about 50-50 on saying they suck, or are the best thing ever.

My wife and I took a canning and preserving class presented by the Penn State Agricultural Extension, and their take on the matter was one lid, one use. If there's a reuseable form of lid, they didn't mention it.

[CDAT]

My wife and I took a canning and preserving class presented by the Penn State Agricultural Extension, and their take on the matter was one lid, one use. If there's a reuseable form of lid, they didn't mention it.

There are, here is the first link I found to it (also I think a photo of it.)
https://www.lehmans.com/product/reusable-canning-jar-lids-wide-mouth/canning?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&utm_campaign=1141095&zmam=75153134&zmas=13&zmac=22&zmap=1141095&partner_id=bcbgoog&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_AllProducts_GOOG&utm_term=shopping&utm_content=sM2FMzIKX_dc|pcrid|54869971724|pkw||pm t||&&gclid=CKHQhYv5_c0CFRSEfgodqVYLjA

[.45cultist]

Must have been GEN 1 MREs. They were REALLY HORRENDOUS!!! The drill Sergeants would give us C-Rations with them because you would open them up and 50% of the time mold spores would "explode" from the package. The "pork patty" and the "beef patty" BOTH tasted EXACTLY THE SAME...like Soy.

No, it still happens since MRE's are "wet pack", the temperature turns their shelf life to months. A few supply sergeants have been jailed for failure to rotate stock and poisoning troops also. I think they are getting the message, the citizens, don't listen. A cache of bad food can start any number of plots. Stolen bad rations being used to undermine reconstruction efforts, looking for medical help, etc.

[swaghauler]

My wife and I took a canning and preserving class presented by the Penn State Agricultural Extension, and their take on the matter was one lid, one use. If there's a reuseable form of lid, they didn't mention it.

I've never used them either. I knew they existed because I've seen ads for them. I Pressure Can just like Mom and Grandma taught me to as a kid. If it's not broken, I don't fix it.

[LT. Ox]

I've never used them either. I knew they existed because I've seen ads for them. I Pressure Can just like Mom and Grandma taught me to as a kid. If it's not broken, I don't fix it.

GOLDEN RULE

[Apache6]

Since about 2000, cases of MREs have had small stickers on them that are intended to indicate if they have been exposed to high heat and thus might have gone bad.

It starts off as a small (about 1 inch square) orange sticker with a black circle and orange square inside. If they have been exposed to heat, and have likely gone bad, the center turns black.

Even when some components of the MRE have gone bad, other items are still edible. The main component (beef stew might be bulging and obviously bad) but the crackers, M&Ms, beverage powder, oatmeal bar... are usually good to go.

[swaghauler]

Here are some of the most common methods of food preservation and the average amount of time that the preserved food should last. The chart will also list a Check Frequency representing how often a check for spoilage must be made once the preservation time is exceeded.

Refrigerated Foods: This storage method involves holding the food in an environment of 40F/5C down to 33F/1C. The typical lifespan of refrigerated foods before a check for spoilage are:
Beef: 7 days before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 day.
Lamb: 6 days before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 day.
Pork/Produce: 5 days before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 day.
Poultry/Fish: 2 days before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 day.

Frozen Foods: This storage method involves holding foods at temperatures of 32F/0C for longer term storage. The typical lifespan of frozen foods is:
Beef/Vegetables: 12 months before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 month.
Fish/Lamb: 10 months before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 month.
Pork: 8 months before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 month.
Poultry: 15 months before spoilage begins. Check Frequency: 1 month.

Freeze Dried/Processed Food: This commercial storage method involves both dehydrating and then freeze-drying food. It is most commonly used for making camping/backpacking foods (such as the Mountain House brand). This food is the civilian equivalent of an MRE. The lifespan of this food is 5 years with a Check Frequency of 1 year.

Commercial Canned Foods: This represents commercially canned foods such as Campbell's soups or Dinty Moore beef stew. This food counts as an MRE for consumption because it too is "fortified" with added vitamins and minerals. The average lifespan of the typical canned good is 24 months with a Check Frequency of 6 Months after the listed expiration date. Dented cans add one to the Check for spoilage roll.

Enhanced Commercially Canned Foods: This represents commercially canned, specially prepared, "survival rations" like the products CMMG prepares (I highly recommend their Tactical Bacon if you can afford it). This food is the equivalent of an MRE but cost 10X as much. The shelf life of this food is 10 years and the Check Frequency is 1 year.

Smoked Meats: This is one of the most common primitive methods of food preservation. Smoked meats have a life expectancy of 1 month before spoilage begins. The Check Frequency is 1 week for smoked meats.

Sun Dried/Dehydrated Foods: This method of preservation involves "sun drying" or dry heat preservation (placing food in a hot and dry environment such as a car's cabin on an open grate/screen). It can be used for a variety of foods. The lifespan of Dried foods is 1 month and the Check Frequency is 1 month.

Dry Cured (salted) Foods: This is another method of preservation using spices and salts to infuse the food and then "cure" it over a low heat (you can use an oven to do this). This is how beef jerky is made. The lifespan of Cured meat is:
Beef/Fish/Lamb/Pork: 24 months before spoilage occurs. Check Frequency is 1 month.
Poultry: 12 months before spoilage occurs. Check Frequency is 1 month.

Wet-Packed/Cured (salted) Foods: This form of salt curing involves a chemical cocktail using salt and other preservatives to "cure" meats BUT allow them to remain "soft" when cooked. The finished product is often canned (like European Canned Hams) or sealed in barrels of brine water. This preservation method was commonly used for bulk rations until WW2. The average lifespan before spoilage of wet-packed, cured meats is 5 years. The Check Frequency is 1 year.

Canning/Pressure Canning of Foods: This method of preservation involves bringing the food in question to a boil under pressure to create a "seal" on the glass container it is in. If the food IS ACIDIC, you can create the seal using only the pressure from the boil. For other foods, you must boil the jars in a "pressure cooker," which increases the pressure inside the jar to create a more powerful seal. The lifespan of "Canned" food is 12 months with a Check Frequency of 1 month.

Confit Preservation: This method of preservation is used with "greasy" meats such as Duck, frog legs, or other "oily" foods. It involves "slow cooking" the meat in Lard/Fat for a period of time until the Fat mixes with the oils in the meat and "renders" to a creamy texture. This boils off the water and O2, preserving the meat under a layer of fat. It is then often sealed in an air-tight container and can last a fairly long time. As a bonus, the meat is very tasty cold (unlike most of its contemporary preservation methods). The shelf life of Confit is 3 months with a Check Frequency of 1 month.

Checking For Spoilage:

When a Spoilage Check is called for (by the Check Frequency of the Storage Method), you must roll 1d20. The following modifiers apply to this Spoilage Check:

+1 for each previous Spoilage Check made (or Check Frequency period exceeded).
+1 for every 10F/5.5C of temperature OVER 70F/20C or fraction thereof.
+2 for damaged food packaging (rusted cans)
+1 for dented cans which are still sealed
-1 for every 10F/5.5C of temperature BELOW 40F/5C

Any roll of 20 or more indicates spoilage has occurred. You must then check the Food Spoilage Table in the next posting to see HOW the food is contaminated.

[swaghauler]

Below is a table you can use to determine HOW a food source may be contaminated.

Food Contamination Tables:

25+........... Radiological AND Chemical Contamination (roll on BOTH tables)
23 to 24..... Radiological Contamination
21 to 22..... Chemical Contamination
18 to 20..... Viral Contamination
15 to 17..... Parasitic Contamination
10 to 14..... Bacterial Contamination
05 to 09..... Mold/Surface Spoilage (10% to 60% of food)
01 to 04..... Rancid Food (see below)

Modifiers to the Contamination Tables:

+1 20km from a crater
+1 Devastated/Anarchy
+2 10km from a crater
+5 5km from a crater
+10 1km from a crater
+1 for freshwater fish (versus saltwater fish which are MORE resistant to bacteria and parasites)

Radiological Contamination: Add the modifiers above to the roll.
20+........... Heavy Contamination of 1D10 X 10 Rads.
15 to 19..... Moderate Contamination of 1D20 Rads.
09 to 14..... Light Contamination of 1D10 Rads.
01 to 08..... Trace Contamination of 1D6 Rads.

Anyone exposed to Radiological contamination can "bind" RAD ingested food and reduce exposure by 1D6 Rads by taking a dose of Potassium Iodine.

Chemical Contamination: add the modifiers above to the roll.
21+.......... Contamination resembling Blood Agent (1-3) or Blister Agent (4-6).
16 to 20.... Very Dangerous Chemicals/Heavy Metals (see below).
11 to 15.... Dangerous Chemicals/Heavy Metals (see below).
06 to 10.... Fairly Dangerous Chemicals (see below).
01 to 05.... Toxic Chemicals (see below).

There are a number of treatments to bind or treat chemical poisoning, from Atropine to Lithium Dioxide injections (for certain heavy metal poisonings). Finding an appropriate treatment requires an average of Chemistry and Medical skills.

Viral Contamination: Nothing is added to this roll.
18 to 20.... Hepatitis-C
13 to 17.... Hepatitis-A
07 to 12.... Norovirus (minor flu-like virus)
01 to 06.... Rotavirus (minor flu-like virus)

Parasitic Infestation: Nothing is added to this roll
20............ Tapeworm (see below)
15 to 19.... Amoebic Dysentery
10 to 14.... Cryptosporidium (as a minor illness)
01 to 09.... Giardia (as a minor illness)

Bacterial Infection:
20............. Botulism Toxin or Campylobacter (in seafood), (see below)
15 to 19..... Typhoid Fever
10 to 14..... Cholera
01 to 09..... Minor Food Poisoning (Listeria, Salmonella, etc...) (see below).

Explanation of Table Results:

Heavy Radiological Contamination: In addition to inducing Radiation sickness based on the character's current exposure level, the ingestion of this much radiation will force the character to roll against his STR, CON, and AGL as though he had hit an aging point during character creation. Rolling his characteristic score or less on 1D10 will result in the loss of a characteristic point.

Very Dangerous Chemical Contamination: This contamination will resemble a Flu with severe disorientation (Serious fatigue for 1D6 days) and a Chance of Fatality of 5 (see Diseases in Twilight2000). In addition, the character will have to make rolls against his CON, STR, AGL, and INT Characteristics due to the poisoning. the player must roll above his current stat on 1D10, or lose one point just like the aging roll in character generation does. If he is treated by someone (or a team) with BOTH Medical AND Chemistry skills and they succeed at a DIFFICULT roll of the combined skills, he may add 1 to the 1D10 roll.

Dangerous Chemical Contamination: This is the same as Very Dangerous contamination above EXCEPT that there is NO roll against INT because there is no "cognitive/neurological damage" from the exposure.

Fairly Dangerous Chemical Contamination This poisoning has a 1 Chance of Fatality (see Diseases in Twilight2000), and results in a Light level of Fatigue (1d6 days) if treated successfully (an Average chance using Chem & Medical). Unsuccessful treatment results in a Moderate Level of Fatigue (1D6 days) and a roll against STR, CON, and AGL or lose a point of characteristic.

Toxic Chemical Poisoning: This poisoning has a 1 Chance of Fatality (see diseases in Twilight2000) IF treatment fails (treatment is the same as Fairly Dangerous Chemical Poisoning). There is a Light level of Fatigue (1D6 days) if successful, and a Moderate Level of Fatigue (1D6 days) if unsuccessful. There is NO characteristic loss for this poisoning.

Parasitic Infestations: All of these can be destroyed by cooking the food (be careful of those post-apocalyptic salads boys and girls), but only the Tapeworm poses a true LONG-TERM threat. 1D6 months after infection, a Tapeworm will inflict a CONSTANT Light level of Fatigue. Additionally, the player will have to consume 2X the normal amount of rations or gain fatigue. Finally, the character must roll against STR, CON, and AGL every YEAR until the tapeworm is surgically removed or they die.

Botulism Toxin/Campylobacter: These food poisonings are very dangerous and the 5 Fatality Rating in the Twilight2000 Disease rules refers to these toxins. They both can cause long-term neurological issues so a Characteristic Loss roll like those for Chemical Poisoning above is mandated ON A FAILED TREATMENT ROLL. Successful treatment results in NO characteristic losses.

Minor Food Poisoning: The more common types of Food Poisoning have only a 1 Chance of Fatality (instead of Twilight2000's 5) and will result in no complications for the sufferer.

Mold Contamination: This contamination can be easily removed and from 10% to 60% of the food will be lost. There is a small chance of a more serious event, though. On a natural roll of 20 (on 1D20), There is Staph present in the contaminated food. The character will contract an infection from consuming UNCOOKED food (Vegans beware) based on their current condition: Healthy= 2 in 20, Lightly Wounded=4 in 20, Moderately Wounded= 6 in 20, Seriously Wounded= 8 in 20, Critically Wounded= 10 in 20, Deadly Wounded= 12 in 20. This is just the same as the infections described in the rules.

Rancid Food: Rancid food is the cousin to "Skunk Water" (see the Water Purification thread). The food is not contaminated but has begun to spoil. The characters CAN eat the food IF they can get past the horrible taste. The Character must roll under their CON or vomit up the "unpalatable food." If the roll fails by more than 5, the character becomes sick for 1d3 days (as a minor illness).

I hope this adds some depth to your gaming experience. As always, use what you want and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[.45cultist]

Cool!:)

[swaghauler]

Here is a method of storing RAW eggs for winter use.

https://youtu.be/bTlcCvvUjl0



You would add one ounce of HYDRATED LIME (by weight) to a quart of clean water. Then just add clean BUT UNWASHED eggs to this solution and cover to prevent evaporation & dirt or bug intrusion into the container of lime water. For those using the Food Contamination Table, you would start checks at EIGHT MONTHS and check each month thereafter for spoilage.

Swag

[swaghauler]

Here are 6 methods of egg preservation with success rates from Townsends.

https://youtu.be/yUYgguMz1qI

Swag

[swaghauler]

https://youtu.be/AirgjZRPGF8