kato13
09-10-2008, 04:13 AM
General Pain 05-27-2008, 05:24 AM have u ever seen something like this ?
http://dontclickthis.whatingods.name/IED.gif
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TiggerCCW UK 05-27-2008, 06:35 AM Looks like a scene from Tremors - I was expecting a giant worm of some kind to appear. Does anyone know anything about the incident?
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pmulcahy 05-27-2008, 10:12 AM That just smacks of Photoshop (or whatever the video equivalent is) to me. It just doesn't look right, somehow. And you'd think something like that would be in MPEG or suchlike instead of an animated GIF. Something is not kosher there...
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TiggerCCW UK 05-27-2008, 11:17 AM I did wonder about the 'blast' - looks more like a bubble coming up than an explosion.
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Targan 05-27-2008, 12:00 PM Its not a fake. This video has been around for a while, in a number of formats. It was an IED dug in deep under the road from a drainage ditch. The bubble effect may be because of the amount of road the explosion had to lift before breaching the surface or (and this is my favoured hypothesis as a former powder monkey) it was a fairly large low explosive charge (maybe ANFO or something simple like that).
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SongofWar 05-27-2008, 11:43 PM This is it here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9v5jPtXsO9M&feature=related
If you go frame by frame, a little after 6 seconds in, you see something at the top of the screen...perhaps an incoming mortar round? If you look closely, you can see it in realtime just after the six second mark, and before the explosion.
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Targan 05-27-2008, 11:50 PM There has been a lot of online debate about whether it was caused by an incoming round. I don't believe it was. For one thing it would have to be a very big round and it would have to penetrate deep into the road surface to move that much dirt in the way that it did.
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SongofWar 05-28-2008, 12:19 AM In your opinion targan, what size of round would it take to kick up that kind of debris? There's definately something coming down right before the detonation on the video.
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Targan 05-28-2008, 01:30 AM Either a 120mm mortar round, 122mm or larger howitzer round, or some kind of penetrating round like a Durandel (not that insurgents are likely to have access to the latter two).
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sladethesniper 05-29-2008, 07:47 PM Being in country when this little vid popped up, I can say that 1) it is real and 2) it was about 120 pounds of HME (Home Made Explosives...basically ANFO but more of a slurry...then sun dried...) buried about 10 feet down...
They buried too deep and HME, though a high explosive, is most definitely not high grade or very reliable in it's rate of combustion...so basically a botched IED construction roll.
-STS
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Targan 05-29-2008, 09:02 PM Its not a fake. This video has been around for a while, in a number of formats. It was an IED dug in deep under the road from a drainage ditch. The bubble effect may be because of the amount of road the explosion had to lift before breaching the surface or (and this is my favoured hypothesis as a former powder monkey) it was a fairly large low explosive charge (maybe ANFO or something simple like that).
See, that was my analysis exactly. I'm glad to see I was correct all along. In the sense that I'm glad I'm still useful for something. :)
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SongofWar 05-29-2008, 09:11 PM I'm not as much of an expert as you, targan, but I did see what looked like an incomer in the video, that's all. Maybe I was mistaken.
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Targan 05-29-2008, 09:15 PM Actually SongofWar you aren't the only one to have seen what might have been incoming. There has been raging debate on the internet on exactly that point in the video. Its just that I've seen A LOT of explosions going off and that one looked like a buried ANFO charge to me.
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Webstral 05-29-2008, 10:57 PM Weird. I'd never seen an IED detonate at depth under a road surface. All the ones I've seen are basically surface-laid. One instant, nothing. The next, a fireball or cloud of dust. An interpreter en route to be interviewed by us happened to be entering the checkpoint just as the bad guys rolled by. The bad guys actually were after a PSD truck in the rotary right outside the checkpoint (Checkpoint 2 in the Green Zone, as a matter of fact). The interpreter just had the bad luck to be there. One moment the PSD truck, the VBIED, and the interpreter were all there. The next, a fireball and concussion. The next, scraps of metal. The interpreter simply disappeared. Poor guy. There wasn't even anything for the medics to mop up. If the whole thing hadn't been caught on camera, I think we all would have doubted the guy had been there at the time. The slow-motion appearance of the IED is outside my experience. Weird.
Webstral
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Targan 05-29-2008, 11:54 PM Part of the reason I recognised it is that civil explosives technicians specifically use low explosives for moving dirt just like that. When you want to break rocks, say in the mining industry, you use a faster burning explosive or even high-ex (you can speed up the burn of something like ANFO by adding metal powder or metal filings and slow it down by adding, say, polystyrene balls) but that tends to send stuff flying. Low explosives MOVE dirt in a much more manageable way.
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SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:01 AM I find it difficult to fault your logic at this time ;)
If it didn't cause the blast, any idea what the thing is on the video that some of us thought was an incoming round?
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Targan 05-30-2008, 01:17 AM If it didn't cause the blast, any idea what the thing is on the video that some of us thought was an incoming round?
Bug hitting the windscreen maybe?
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SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:26 AM Possibly a bug, but I don't think so.
Have you seen the object I am referring to?
Doesn't really matter in the long run, just calling it as I see it. Then again, i'm not an explosives expert, so i'll defer to you on this one.
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Targan 05-30-2008, 01:31 AM Have you seen the object I am referring to?I've checks frame by frame before and I had another look after reading the first post in this thread and I've seen the object that has generated this conjecture. I admit I don't know what it is.
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SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:40 AM I've checks frame by frame before and I had another look after reading the first post in this thread and I've seen the object that has generated this conjecture. I admit I don't know what it is.
Fair enough. The explosion reminded me of some film clips of artillery from the first world war (when the shells buried themselves in the mud before going off) so I assumed the object was an incoming round, especially when I knew it was there and looked for it while watching at full speed.
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Targan 05-30-2008, 01:49 AM The explosion reminded me of some film clips of artillery from the first world war (when the shells buried themselves in the mud before going off) so I assumed the object was an incoming round...I think that even if it had been invented the proximity fuse would have been very new tech by the time of WWI therefore most (maybe all) WWI artillery shells were impact fused. Also its easy to bury a big round in mud quite quickly but an ashphalt road surface is a pretty solid thing to try to penetrate to any depth. Most modern artillery rounds are designed to detonate above or at the surface to cause maximum destruction by allowing blast and fragments to fly horizontally from the impact point.
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SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:52 AM I agree that the airburst is favoured these days. However, that's assuming that a bunch of insurgents have a fully functioning proximity fuse, as opposed to something improvised that could have malfunctioned. I know they were using some old soviet era artillery rockets on jury rigged launched platforms at one point (a friend of mine took some pictures of one a couple of years ago). Strikes me as a bit of a coincidence to see something like that on film that just happens to match up nicely with the detonation.
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pmulcahy 05-30-2008, 11:51 AM Come to think of it, I have seen explosions that look like that -- deep strip mining. So a charge buried too deeply does make sense.
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http://dontclickthis.whatingods.name/IED.gif
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TiggerCCW UK 05-27-2008, 06:35 AM Looks like a scene from Tremors - I was expecting a giant worm of some kind to appear. Does anyone know anything about the incident?
********************
pmulcahy 05-27-2008, 10:12 AM That just smacks of Photoshop (or whatever the video equivalent is) to me. It just doesn't look right, somehow. And you'd think something like that would be in MPEG or suchlike instead of an animated GIF. Something is not kosher there...
********************
TiggerCCW UK 05-27-2008, 11:17 AM I did wonder about the 'blast' - looks more like a bubble coming up than an explosion.
********************
Targan 05-27-2008, 12:00 PM Its not a fake. This video has been around for a while, in a number of formats. It was an IED dug in deep under the road from a drainage ditch. The bubble effect may be because of the amount of road the explosion had to lift before breaching the surface or (and this is my favoured hypothesis as a former powder monkey) it was a fairly large low explosive charge (maybe ANFO or something simple like that).
********************
SongofWar 05-27-2008, 11:43 PM This is it here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9v5jPtXsO9M&feature=related
If you go frame by frame, a little after 6 seconds in, you see something at the top of the screen...perhaps an incoming mortar round? If you look closely, you can see it in realtime just after the six second mark, and before the explosion.
********************
Targan 05-27-2008, 11:50 PM There has been a lot of online debate about whether it was caused by an incoming round. I don't believe it was. For one thing it would have to be a very big round and it would have to penetrate deep into the road surface to move that much dirt in the way that it did.
********************
SongofWar 05-28-2008, 12:19 AM In your opinion targan, what size of round would it take to kick up that kind of debris? There's definately something coming down right before the detonation on the video.
********************
Targan 05-28-2008, 01:30 AM Either a 120mm mortar round, 122mm or larger howitzer round, or some kind of penetrating round like a Durandel (not that insurgents are likely to have access to the latter two).
********************
sladethesniper 05-29-2008, 07:47 PM Being in country when this little vid popped up, I can say that 1) it is real and 2) it was about 120 pounds of HME (Home Made Explosives...basically ANFO but more of a slurry...then sun dried...) buried about 10 feet down...
They buried too deep and HME, though a high explosive, is most definitely not high grade or very reliable in it's rate of combustion...so basically a botched IED construction roll.
-STS
********************
Targan 05-29-2008, 09:02 PM Its not a fake. This video has been around for a while, in a number of formats. It was an IED dug in deep under the road from a drainage ditch. The bubble effect may be because of the amount of road the explosion had to lift before breaching the surface or (and this is my favoured hypothesis as a former powder monkey) it was a fairly large low explosive charge (maybe ANFO or something simple like that).
See, that was my analysis exactly. I'm glad to see I was correct all along. In the sense that I'm glad I'm still useful for something. :)
********************
SongofWar 05-29-2008, 09:11 PM I'm not as much of an expert as you, targan, but I did see what looked like an incomer in the video, that's all. Maybe I was mistaken.
********************
Targan 05-29-2008, 09:15 PM Actually SongofWar you aren't the only one to have seen what might have been incoming. There has been raging debate on the internet on exactly that point in the video. Its just that I've seen A LOT of explosions going off and that one looked like a buried ANFO charge to me.
********************
Webstral 05-29-2008, 10:57 PM Weird. I'd never seen an IED detonate at depth under a road surface. All the ones I've seen are basically surface-laid. One instant, nothing. The next, a fireball or cloud of dust. An interpreter en route to be interviewed by us happened to be entering the checkpoint just as the bad guys rolled by. The bad guys actually were after a PSD truck in the rotary right outside the checkpoint (Checkpoint 2 in the Green Zone, as a matter of fact). The interpreter just had the bad luck to be there. One moment the PSD truck, the VBIED, and the interpreter were all there. The next, a fireball and concussion. The next, scraps of metal. The interpreter simply disappeared. Poor guy. There wasn't even anything for the medics to mop up. If the whole thing hadn't been caught on camera, I think we all would have doubted the guy had been there at the time. The slow-motion appearance of the IED is outside my experience. Weird.
Webstral
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Targan 05-29-2008, 11:54 PM Part of the reason I recognised it is that civil explosives technicians specifically use low explosives for moving dirt just like that. When you want to break rocks, say in the mining industry, you use a faster burning explosive or even high-ex (you can speed up the burn of something like ANFO by adding metal powder or metal filings and slow it down by adding, say, polystyrene balls) but that tends to send stuff flying. Low explosives MOVE dirt in a much more manageable way.
********************
SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:01 AM I find it difficult to fault your logic at this time ;)
If it didn't cause the blast, any idea what the thing is on the video that some of us thought was an incoming round?
********************
Targan 05-30-2008, 01:17 AM If it didn't cause the blast, any idea what the thing is on the video that some of us thought was an incoming round?
Bug hitting the windscreen maybe?
********************
SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:26 AM Possibly a bug, but I don't think so.
Have you seen the object I am referring to?
Doesn't really matter in the long run, just calling it as I see it. Then again, i'm not an explosives expert, so i'll defer to you on this one.
********************
Targan 05-30-2008, 01:31 AM Have you seen the object I am referring to?I've checks frame by frame before and I had another look after reading the first post in this thread and I've seen the object that has generated this conjecture. I admit I don't know what it is.
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SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:40 AM I've checks frame by frame before and I had another look after reading the first post in this thread and I've seen the object that has generated this conjecture. I admit I don't know what it is.
Fair enough. The explosion reminded me of some film clips of artillery from the first world war (when the shells buried themselves in the mud before going off) so I assumed the object was an incoming round, especially when I knew it was there and looked for it while watching at full speed.
********************
Targan 05-30-2008, 01:49 AM The explosion reminded me of some film clips of artillery from the first world war (when the shells buried themselves in the mud before going off) so I assumed the object was an incoming round...I think that even if it had been invented the proximity fuse would have been very new tech by the time of WWI therefore most (maybe all) WWI artillery shells were impact fused. Also its easy to bury a big round in mud quite quickly but an ashphalt road surface is a pretty solid thing to try to penetrate to any depth. Most modern artillery rounds are designed to detonate above or at the surface to cause maximum destruction by allowing blast and fragments to fly horizontally from the impact point.
********************
SongofWar 05-30-2008, 01:52 AM I agree that the airburst is favoured these days. However, that's assuming that a bunch of insurgents have a fully functioning proximity fuse, as opposed to something improvised that could have malfunctioned. I know they were using some old soviet era artillery rockets on jury rigged launched platforms at one point (a friend of mine took some pictures of one a couple of years ago). Strikes me as a bit of a coincidence to see something like that on film that just happens to match up nicely with the detonation.
********************
pmulcahy 05-30-2008, 11:51 AM Come to think of it, I have seen explosions that look like that -- deep strip mining. So a charge buried too deeply does make sense.
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