Question: Man vs. older tank

[Krejcik]

how could a person with no weapons, only say a rifle and rocks disable a tank? say a T-55 or older. Is it possible? I was thinking to just get close as possible and to run around it, trying to disorient it and getting the tank to run into something or jam the barrel up with rocks and debris?

realistic and almost realistic answers pls

[FMDeCorba]

LOL!

In my opinion, there is very little a man could do to defeat a tank with rocks and a rifle, unless he got a really lucky shot through an open hatch.
Unless he´s constantly in a blind zone, the machine will quickly get the better of him. As far as i know, the only thing besides explosives or various tank traps used with any success against armor are Molotov cocktails.

[headquarters]

how could a person with no weapons, only say a rifle and rocks disable a tank? say a T-55 or older. Is it possible? I was thinking to just get close as possible and to run around it, trying to disorient it and getting the tank to run into something or jam the barrel up with rocks and debris?

realistic and almost realistic answers pls


the tank will run the guy over.It can turn around its own axis,and skid on tarmac etc a driver with a nasty urge to kill can do lot of damage to personell.Even if you got close or on top and hung on and started smashing periscopes etc he could drive through a building ,a forrest or whatever to shake you or smash you up .Th eturret easily crushes someone if they get caught between it and the deck .

If there was a hatch open and you could get on top before it was closed you could lob a grenade down into it or spray a mag down the hatch .That would do it -maybe.

all imho -h for humble as always.

[Krejcik]

so theirs no way a normal person by playing cat and mouse could disable a tank? not destroy. but disable. maybe an engine failure?

If a tank runs full speed into a rock wall and it's gun discharges (into the rock wall) would that hurt it?

[pmulcahy11b]

This will take a lot of ammo, skill, time, and luck (and is better done with several people), but has successfully been used by guerrilla forces since World War 2. Shoot at the tank with your rifle until he buttons up (shooting at the commander is best). Then start destroying the vision blocks and sights of the tank to blind it. Blind, the tank commander will generally order a bailout. Then you shoot the crew as they come out.

The chance that one man can do it? Very small. But it has been done.

Oh, and forget the rocks, or use them to line your firepit.

[jester]

Pretty much what Paul said.

Rocks, eh, I suppose you could stuff them in the maingun barrel if you had the chance and it could put the maingun out of action until they cleaned it.

Not just smash the vision blocks, paint or grease or something over the blocks is good.

A fire in the engine compartment is a show stopper

And if the tank still has a fire supression system an engine fire, maybe you could force the crew to bail out when the fire supression system goes off.

And a man with a rifle, simply shoot the crew as they stop to do maintenance, eat or camp for the night.

[headquarters]

never say never -but those things come up on you fast ! And they can spray an area with mg bullets if the target is quick and with grenades if in good cover .Shooting the gun into a wall might damage gun or sighting implements .But not disable the tank I dont think.

The cat and mouse game against an enemy tank might have been done - but its going to take a one in a thousand squad and some really advantagous terrain to do it .All imho .

so theirs no way a normal person by playing cat and mouse could disable a tank? not destroy. but disable. maybe an engine failure?

If a tank runs full speed into a rock wall and it's gun discharges (into the rock wall) would that hurt it?

[pmulcahy11b]

And a man with a rifle, simply shoot the crew as they stop to do maintenance, eat or camp for the night.

That won't work! It's too simple and effective!

[Legbreaker]

Tanks rarely operate in close terrain without infantry support - The single man with his rifle and rocks wouldn't have a chance.

[copeab]

how could a person with no weapons, only say a rifle and rocks disable a tank? say a T-55 or older. Is it possible? I was thinking to just get close as possible and to run around it, trying to disorient it and getting the tank to run into something or jam the barrel up with rocks and debris?

realistic and almost realistic answers pls

First, elevation. The soldier needs to be higher than the main gun or coaxial MG can reach. An AA MG is less of a problem, since on most tanks a creman has to expose himself to use it, which is what a sniper wants.

Short of killing the crew, the only way he could possibly disable a tank with a rifle it to break a track, which would require a very heavy rifle, at least .50-cal. and probably with AP ammo.

[copeab]

Tanks rarely operate in close terrain without infantry support - The single man with his rifle and rocks wouldn't have a chance.

Unless he went Simo and killed all the infantry first ;)

[Legbreaker]

Unless he went Simo and killed all the infantry first ;)
Yeah, like that's going to happen....

Real world: Tank + lone rifleman without antiarmour weapons (or even with in a lot of cases) = one dead rifleman + one mildly inconvienced tank.

[copeab]

Yeah, like that's going to happen....


Hey, he did kill over 700 Russians ... including 25 in one day.

Okay, it was a forest in Finland with 6 feet of snow ... but the OP didn't epecify the conditions the tank hunter was operating under.

[kcdusk]

Instead of going high, i'd go low.

Dig a hole, cover it up, lure the tank down that street and have the tank roll over the carpet with dirt on it and it drops down into a hole.

I seen this with horses in The Three Amigoes, so it must work.

tank is disabled.

[jester]

Instead of going high, i'd go low.

Dig a hole, cover it up, lure the tank down that street and have the tank roll over the carpet with dirt on it and it drops down into a hole.

I seen this with horses in The Three Amigoes, so it must work.

tank is disabled.


And that is a tank trap.


Or just lure the tank into mud, sand or snow or thin ice so it falls through or gets bogged down, or even better a weak bridge or narrow mountain road.

Another option, a large tree felled infront and behind the tree thus trapping the tank. Or ruble from buildings or rocks from a hillside again blocking the tank from the front and rear.

[Legbreaker]

how could a person with no weapons, only say a rifle and rocks disable a tank?

realistic and almost realistic answers pls
Remember the three "R"s.

Rifle, Rocks and at least some attempt at Realism
The last two posts contain decent ideas, but they require significant manpower, not to mention explosives or some other method to drop trees/buildings is probably just a little beyond the capability of a rifle or a rock....

;)

[pmulcahy11b]

Remember the three "R"s.

Rifle, Rocks and at least some attempt at Realism
The last two posts contain decent ideas, but they require significant manpower, not to mention explosives or some other method to drop trees/buildings is probably just a little beyond the capability of a rifle or a rock....

;)

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about MacGuyver here...my confusion...:p

[jester]

Remember the three "R"s.

Rifle, Rocks and at least some attempt at Realism
The last two posts contain decent ideas, but they require significant manpower, not to mention explosives or some other method to drop trees/buildings is probably just a little beyond the capability of a rifle or a rock....

;)


An axe or shovel would do better than rocks of a rifle in this instance.



OR,

Use the rifle to shoot the driver of a truck infront of the tank and behind hus boxing it in.

OR

Use the rifle to hijack the truck ;)

OR

Use the rock to bash the truck driver on the head and use that as a baricade.


See, and we now have used the rifle and the rock to help take out a tank.

[Legbreaker]

See, now we're talking realism again. :D

Use what you've got to gain what you need. Of course none of that is much use if the tank is already bearing down on you....

:(

[Earthpig]

How big of rock?......a pretty good sized one stuck in between the track and Idler wheel has a VERY slim chance of throwing the track....if he pivot steers to get you he might even twist the track right off the road wheels...this is not likely, the most likely thing is you wind up a red smear in the mud and a rust color on the belly of the tank.:p

[headquarters]

if someone tried to use a truck to block in my tank I would flatten it / push it out of the way by hiiting my speed pedal.

Seriously - a 40 ton tank with a nasty driver -there really are very few ways of doing this with a rock and a rifle .remember the rules too - if charged by a tank its a straight up initiative check or run away screaming .Pretty rtealistic rule imho .

I saw them use a leopard I as a demolition vehicle once .(No wrecking balls in the Norway army ) . They sped through a wood/brick barracks with 20 meters flying start like Mike Tyson putting his fist through a piece of pie .

If the crew were on a break you could sneak up and do them with the rifle an dthe rock somehow ..But buttoned up ..As for taking out the periscopes -there are a lot of them , they are small targets and a moving tank is a hard target .Plus as soon as they make you they are going to spray you with the coaxial .

[Mohoender]

You can use what the Russian tried during WWII. You pack a dog with explosive and launch it on the battlefield. Then, it is supposed to run under ennemy tanks and blow them up.

The downside to this:
Dogs were trained with Russian tanks and they had a funny tendency to run under their own tank as a result:D . The idea was still a good one and met with some success.

[Legbreaker]

Provided your rifle or rock were able to spontaneously change into a fully trained suicide dog....

[kato13]

Provided your rifle or rock were able to spontaneously change into a fully trained suicide dog....

"Polymorph object" dude ;).

[cavtroop]

Take your rifle. Shoot someone with a Javelin, take the Javelin. Poof goes the tank

:D

[Mohoender]

Provided your rifle or rock were able to spontaneously change into a fully trained suicide dog....

Oops! I should have read more carefully.:o

[Graebarde]

"Polymorph object" dude ;).

Hell if I'm going to polymorph it into any thing it will be a Hawg... Warthog... A-10 loaded.. the unlitmate tank buster. But then that surely is negated by rule three... realism.

[jester]

I know how to do it!

Beverly Hills COP!

Banana's up in the tailpipe! Or stuff the rock with some wet dirt! or lots of dirt in the air intake, clog the filters/vents.


And then when the crew comes out to clean it you shoot them with the rifle.

[weswood]

I know how to do it!

Beverly Hills COP!

Banana's up in the tailpipe! Or stuff the rock with some wet dirt! or lots of dirt in the air intake, clog the filters/vents.


And then when the crew comes out to clean it you shoot them with the rifle.

What if they don't fall for no banana in the tailpipe????????

[pmulcahy11b]

What if they don't fall for no banana in the tailpipe????????

Just as long as you say it right...

[Krejcik]

ok what about this.

What happens if the tank turns and due to poor visibility and slams front first into a high rock wall. Everyone gets jerked around inside and the the gunner hits the fire button, causing a round to slam at point black range into the cliff wall?

[Targan]

If the gun barrel extends past the front of the hull I guess it would hit the rock wall before the rest of the tank and be damaged or destroyed before the round was fired. The round might explode in the breach, explode in the barrel or the gun may have been rendered incapable of firing. The first two events would obviously be highly detrimental to the tank's crew, especially the commander, gunner and probably loader.

[kota1342000]

This thread is starting to crack me up....thanx all....

Being an anti-tank buff, there are some good and bad sides to this coin. And some of this has already been covered,

Good
-When tanks are buttoned up, they can see about 1/10 they normally can
-tanks cant drive up greater 60 or 70 percent slope (look for steep hills)
-tanks cant go over trees over 18in thick at trunks
-ditches and cuts over 4 feet can get tanks stuck

Bad
-good tankers nearly ALWAYS have infantry support
-tanks move FAST! (well, comparatively)
-good tankers know the weak spots on their vehicles and protect them

...So going back to the original question with the single rifleman with a rifle and a rock; this would actually be a good idea for a scenario for the GM with writers block.
This isnt impossible, just very difficult. Imagine if you will, attempting to place the rock (maybe a chunk of scrap steel instead) somewhere in the tracks where it would throw the track. What kind of courage will a PC show to make this happen with the possibility of the tank making a track turn and turning the PC into a red chunky stain in the ground up dirt? Or climbing onto the back deck of a buttoned up tank; what if TC or Gunner traverse the turret 360? Could a PC climb onto the turret? Could someone hang on at speed and hard turns? If the tank decides to "scratch its back" using a building, can the PC jump off and hide again? Could the PC get a hatch open or just wait for armor crew to open it for him/her? Will the tank crew crap the bed and make a serious mistake?
All this of course assumes that the tank is alone and without infantry support, but what a game session that would be for an imaginative PC.
then of course theres always;
"Make a deal with em!"
"What kind of deal?"
"A deal deal!"
"....ok hustler...we'll try it your way"

[pmulcahy11b]

Good
-When tanks are buttoned up, they can see about 1/10 they normally can
-tanks cant drive up greater 60 or 70 percent slope (look for steep hills)
-tanks cant go over trees over 18in thick at trunks
-ditches and cuts over 4 feet can get tanks stuck


And most tracked vehicles can't handle a side slope of more than 30 degrees -- try to trick it into going sideways across a steep hill and you can make it roll over. (I damned near rolled an M-113 once -- hell of a scary experience!)