Version 4 of the game

[Olefin]

There has been scuttlebutt of a V4 version of the game for over a year (with 2013 being seen as the third version of the game) but until recently it was more just wishful thinking.

However recently there have been multiple posts about it on a facebook group for the game by a person who I have confirmed is working on the effort. I wrote to Marc Miller and he did confirm that its not just wishful thinking. He didnt give me a timeline for when it will occur or what its timeline will be (i.e. Cold War, near future, etc.) or who the new owners/licensee will be but he did confirm it is in progress and that there is a new owner/licensee for Twilight 2000.

[Legbreaker]

Which makes it near impossible for those of us working on new material to be sure we're heading in the right direction with it. :(
Speaking for myself, I'm a little annoyed that the wider community is only just hearing about this now and that we haven't been given the opportunity to express our preferences about the new game and in particular it's setting.
After all, without us, there is no game, just a collection of printed words that don't sell.
I HATE marketing (studied it long enough, worked in it far too long), but I know that if you're not finding out what your target market wants, you're not going to have a very saleable product.

[Olefin]

Leg - take it from me - neither I or Raellus are happy either - we basically got told that at this time there is no more interest in new works for either V1 or V2 versions of the game - meaning that the stuff we were working on as far as anything official is dead in the water.

Thus after three new releases in two years we get told thanks but the new owners arent interested in anything new for V1 and V2, at least for now. Hopefully they will be open to stuff from writers like us in the future.

[Olefin]

Only details on timing come from Twilight:2000 - Roleplaying In The Aftermath Of World War III facebook group and the person who is working on it - Marc wouldnt give me anything more either

Chris Lites - It will be officially announced in the fall. It's from a large publisher who I think fans will be pleased with. I'll see if I can share anything else.

He also said it wont be anything like Twilight 2013

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Me personally, I heartily encourage people to keep creating material for the earlier game versions if they wish to do so, specifically because there seems to be a trend in modern games for "streamlined" rules and more "narrative" content. Streamlined, meaning little in the way of rules to give you guidance.
I've found that games with those two concepts tend to leave me unsatisfied with the gameplay - they're dull and uninspiring

Naturally it depends on the game system you choose but I've found that for my tastes, certain older game systems offer the right mix of GM freedom and rules/mechanics. I like to have a rules as guidelines but I want those guidelines to be solid & robust. A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.

Now I'm not saying that this new version of T2k is going to be "rules-lite and catering to the angsty, whiney, tell-my-own-story-rather-than-follow-the-GM's-story player" kind of game but those types of games appear to be popular enough at the moment to be a market-influence on the rules designs.

EDIT: just realized that Chris Lites is probably one and the same guy that wrote the Dust rpg - which is a rules-light, action-adventure style game.
https://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html
I'm not saying that that makes me think a 4th edition of T2k is going to lack the mechanics that make the game something you can sink your teeth into, but it does make me think that I'll wait for some game reviews before deciding to buy it or not.

[Olefin]

Me personally, I heartily encourage people to keep creating material for the earlier game versions if they wish to do so, specifically because there seems to be a trend in modern games for "streamlined" rules and more "narrative" content. Streamlined, meaning little in the way of rules to give you guidance.
I've found that games with those two concepts tend to leave me unsatisfied with the gameplay - they're dull and uninspiring

Naturally it depends on the game system you choose but I've found that for my tastes, certain older game systems offer the right mix of GM freedom and rules/mechanics. I like to have a rules as guidelines but I want those guidelines to be solid & robust. A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.

Now I'm not saying that this new version of T2k is going to be "rules-lite and catering to the angsty, whiney, tell-my-own-story-rather-than-follow-the-GM's-story player" kind of game but those types of games appear to be popular enough at the moment to be a market-influence on the rules designs.

thank you that is what I needed to hear - even if for some reason the new game isnt looking for stuff on the older versions there is no reason that we cant still publish them even if its "fan canon"

[Olefin]

"EDIT: just realized that Chris Lites is probably one and the same guy that wrote the Dust rpg - which is a rules-light, action-adventure style game.
https://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html
I'm not saying that that makes me think a 4th edition of T2k is going to lack the mechanics that make the game something you can sink your teeth into, but it does make me think that I'll wait for some game reviews before deciding to buy it or not."

Yes its the same guy - and yes I have the same concerns

Looked thru his bibliography and if he is writing for the game it is definitely going to go away from mechanics and more towards action adventure. Besides Dust he wrote several Conan Adventures, Mutant Chronicles, Infinity the Roleplaying Game, and Unknown Armies - none of which from what I can see have much in common with either the V1 or V2/2.2 version of the game - or even 2013 for that matter. I am hoping someone polls the fan base if they are deciding on that kind of change

[Olefin]

Based on who Chris Lites works for the new owners/licensee is probably going to be Modiphius Entertainment. Keep in mind this is conjecture as I have not heard anything at all yet officially.

People might want to look at their stuff and see what you think.

if its them this is their mission statement

Make partial or minor changes to (something), typically so as to improve it or to make it less extreme.

Transform (a structure) from its original anatomical form during development or evolution.

[Adm.Lee]

I hope whoever the publisher is will be reaching out to the community for playtesting.

Beyond that, I don't know what to think about this announcement.

[swaghauler]

I cannot linger long as I have a prior engagement but when I saw this thread I figured I'd add in what I know. IF Modiphius is the developer and they are using their trademarked 2D20 system, here's a decent tutorial of Conan 2D20 (the game I have actually played in this system)...

https://youtu.be/PSEljgkp0uk

I would call the 2D20 system a "medium crunch" cinematic system (where you can do all sorts of cool things using a feature known as MOMENTUM). It might work but I would have to see how they will deal with automatic weapons. John Carter and Star Trek both have projectile/energy weapons but those are not the same as modern automatic weapons. I don't know how the Mutant Chronicles does them (each 2D20 system is modified to fit the game using it).

I cannot get the video link to work so just YouTube Blades and Blaster's Modiphius 2D20 tutorial.

[Vespers War]

John Carter and Star Trek both have projectile/energy weapons but those are not the same as modern automatic weapons. I don't know how the Mutant Chronicles does them (each 2D20 system is modified to fit the game using it).

From the Quickstart for Mutant Chronicles, it looks like there are three fire modes, all of which expend Reload tokens for bonuses:

Semi-Automatic: spend a Reload to get an extra d20 on attack and +1 Dark Symmetry die (a die that inflicts damage on a 1 or 2 and triggers a weapon's special ability on a 6).

Burst: spend 1 or 2 Reloads to get an extra d20 on attack and a number of Dark Symmetry dice equal to the Reloads spent.

Automatic: spend up to 3 Reloads to get an extra d20 on attack and a number of DS dice equal to Reloads spent.

Examples of special abilities triggered by a 6 on the Dark Symmetry die are Armor Piercing (ignore some armor), Knockdown, Spread (damage additional hit areas), Stun, and Vicious (inflict extra damage).

[pmulcahy11b]

Why can't we use the same rules set (my favorite is v2,2) and come up with a new timeline and backstory?

[Legbreaker]

Exactly. 2.2 isn't broken, and at most requires just a few tweaks.
Personally I miss the detail of the 1st ed vehicle damage system, but the rest has worked perfectly fine for the last quarter of a century.

I'm not convinced a new history is necessary either. Perhaps another alternate version much the same as Merc is an alternate, but where's the need for a complete re-write?

That said, I think Fasa did new versions of Shadowrun quite well - they simply advanced the timeline about the same number of game years as between real time editions and incorporated new/altered rules and technology as an evolutionary, rather than revolutionary step.

[Targan]

Speaking for myself, I'm a little annoyed that the wider community is only just hearing about this now and that we haven't been given the opportunity to express our preferences about the new game and in particular it's setting.
After all, without us, there is no game, just a collection of printed words that don't sell.

I hear you and I'm sympathetic, but anyone who watched T2013 getting absolutely pummelled by naysayers during development, let alone once it was released, would understandably be EXTREMELY wary of saying much to the wider community if they were early into the development of a new system.


In any case, what I would want from a new T2K and what most T2Kers would want are likely very different things. I've resigned myself to never getting the levels of crunch I'd be happy with.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I understand your point but I think 2013 shot itself in the foot at least once and that didn't help things much. By that I mean the restrictions they put on people for contributions to the development - I seriously considered submitting information but when I saw the demand for proof of military service by submittal of your DD 214 Form (or equivalent) I decided not to do so.
I completely understand that they wanted to weed out the wannabes but for us in Australia, you can't just send military documents to foreign nationals and besides that, Army Reserve members didn't get discharge papers when they finished their service.

Among some potential contributors that approach created a feeling that there was some sort of elitism going on and they decided not to get involved. The timeline/history that 2013 provided deserved some criticism, for example it failed on some points of geography that would have been very easy to check with a simple internet search.
Having said all that, the rules were (and still are) good and a lot of the support material was equally as good.
But 2013 lost a lot of goodwill when the head honcho blamed die-hard fans of T2k for 2013's lack of success - purely military themed rpgs have always been a niche market, I don't recall any that have ever sold as well as T2k except perhaps Palladium's Recon/Advanced Recon game. So any new military rpg was never going to sell in large volume and 2013's release was around the same time as D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder were getting the lion's share of publicity and the hype for D&D 4 was building up.

[Legbreaker]

As I indicated earlier, market research when developing a product, ANY product whether that be a new design of shoes, confectionery, or a game is absolutely VITAL to it's success. With T:2013 that didn't appear to have happened, as as SSC has mentioned, what little external input they accepted was heavily cherrypicked.
With this new version we've heard absolutely nothing, even though (we presume) development has been going on for quite some time. This does not bode well at all for a successful release and acceptance by the gaming community. All we know for sure is there is a "press release" scheduled for publication sometime in the 3rd quarter of this year.

[Raellus]

I get it what y'all are saying, but I'm not sure that asking the 400-odd fans of a dead system what they want out of the new version of their favorite old-school RPG is the best path to developing a marketable new RPG, c. 2019.

I think that the whole point of developing a new version of the franchise is to move outside of the echo chamber of established fandom. Will this alienate fans of the older versions of the game? Probably. Will this ruin the chances of the new product making money. Probably not.

-

[Legbreaker]

Considering we are the majority of the market for them, it's sheer idiocy not to find out isn't it?
They don't have to cater for everyone, but don't you think it's a smart idea to at least try and cater for the majority?

[Vespers War]

Considering we are the majority of the market for them, it's sheer idiocy not to find out isn't it?
They don't have to cater for everyone, but don't you think it's a smart idea to at least try and cater for the majority?

If we are the majority of the market, then there's not enough of a market to turn a profit on a new product and the project should be shut down.

My expectation is that they may try to broaden the scope to be a post-apocalyptic survival RPG that still has a lot of military backgrounds but also has more emphasis on the civilian side, to broaden the market. Essentially, look at what 2k13 did and do the opposite, because they narrowed the scope so much that they had no market. There's room in the market for PA games, and given what's out there, I think it's enough of a differentiator to have a serious game based on realistic tech (as opposed to a far-future PA with wondertech or the comic-book style mutations of Gamma World) without also pigeonholing players into strictly military backgrounds. The trick is to find enough of a differentiator to stand out without becoming so niche that you artificially limit your market.

That said, if it is going to Modiphius' 2d20 system, I'm almost certainly out of their market because I don't like that system. I'll just stick with my collection of GDW T2k and continue adding to it as I find old product in used book stores.

[Legbreaker]

If we are the majority of the market, then there's not enough of a market to turn a profit on a new product and the project should be shut down.

We are the majority of the current market. That market may well expand, but where do you think most of the earlier reviews are going to come from?
With all my years of product development, sales, etc, I can't think of a worse way to approach this than they appear to be doing.

If they're changing the background, the rules, and setting it in a different time (say 2025), can it really be called Twilight? Why not just call it "Armageddon" or something like that and be done with it? Is it just an attempt to ride on the coat tails of the earlier games?

Of course all of this is pure speculation. We know virtually nothing at this point and may well be pleasantly surprised when the first official information is published (due in about 4-6 months I believe). Personally though, I'm not holding my breath.

[Olefin]

Well we know there is obviously some kind of decent market out there or the works that I did and Raellus did wouldnt have had many sales at all - and keep in mind that they were only offered at one place - i.e. got me how many fans never go to drivethrurpg.com at all or who are only interested in actual printed material and not pdf's. (i.e. I'll just stick with my collection of GDW T2k and continue adding to it as I find old product in used book stores.)

The real question is how much remains of the original market and does the new release managed to be released in such a way that it can really build an enduring and large enough fan base to make it profitable to pay people to write new material for it and make a profit

i.e. there are only so many people like Raellus and me who did it because we love the game versus working authors doing this for a living and thus having to sell enough product to be able to pay them and still make a profit

[Olefin]

We are the majority of the current market. That market may well expand, but where do you think most of the earlier reviews are going to come from?
With all my years of product development, sales, etc, I can't think of a worse way to approach this than they appear to be doing.

If they're changing the background, the rules, and setting it in a different time (say 2025), can it really be called Twilight? Why not just call it "Armageddon" or something like that and be done with it? Is it just an attempt to ride on the coat tails of the earlier games?

Of course all of this is pure speculation. We know virtually nothing at this point and may well be pleasantly surprised when the first official information is published (due in about 4-6 months I believe). Personally though, I'm not holding my breath.

One thing I am hoping the new licensee/owners are smart enough to do is to allow people to still write for and release material for the old versions as well. That would also expand their releases - i.e. this month its V4, next month you get a "classic V2.2" release, etc..

Sort of what Star Trek has done - i.e you have books now being written on both the reboot Star Trek and the classic Star Trek and both sell well.

Thus I couldnt see why they couldnt embrace what I or Raellus wrote or what Leg is thinking of writing as part of what they are doing as "classic releases" instead of for the the new canon.

Still very much canon but now canon for V2.2 versus canon for V4

[Legbreaker]

...what Leg is thinking of writing...

Which is about a third done at the moment, but on hold until we know more about this 4th edition and what they are doing with the game.
I can see both advantages and disadvantages with my work tying into the new version. One advantage is possibly tapping into professional artwork and printed hard copies (not to mention actually getting a decent financial return for all the hours I've put in). Disadvantages I've already touched on.

[Jason Weiser]

I will keep my powder dry till we get details. I do hope it respects the source material in some form or fashion. I think that's where 2013 went wrong IMO. That said, if V4 does that, and breathes new life into this old girl, I'd be happy.

[Benjamin]

I understand your point but I think 2013 shot itself in the foot at least once and that didn't help things much. By that I mean the restrictions they put on people for contributions to the development - I seriously considered submitting information but when I saw the demand for proof of military service by submittal of your DD 214 Form (or equivalent) I decided not to do so.
I completely understand that they wanted to weed out the wannabes but for us in Australia, you can't just send military documents to foreign nationals and besides that, Army Reserve members didn't get discharge papers when they finished their service.

Among some potential contributors that approach created a feeling that there was some sort of elitism going on and they decided not to get involved. The timeline/history that 2013 provided deserved some criticism, for example it failed on some points of geography that would have been very easy to check with a simple internet search.
Having said all that, the rules were (and still are) good and a lot of the support material was equally as good.
But 2013 lost a lot of goodwill when the head honcho blamed die-hard fans of T2k for 2013's lack of success - purely military themed rpgs have always been a niche market, I don't recall any that have ever sold as well as T2k except perhaps Palladium's Recon/Advanced Recon game. So any new military rpg was never going to sell in large volume and 2013's release was around the same time as D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder were getting the lion's share of publicity and the hype for D&D 4 was building up.

This very much. I’m an international politics major/history minor with a background in research and intelligence analysis and have done contract work for the NSA but they dismissed my offers out of hand. When this attitude was brought up on (I think) Yahoo Groups they were less than courteous. I looked over the finished project and found the whole background premise somewhat laughable.

[Benjamin]

The issues I worry about for V4 are...

1. that the Timeline will be too politicized given our current social climate.

2. it will be just generic PA game with no real Twilight War focus.

3. It will very quickly become dated with a background that almost immediately feels wacky.

4. It will overlook the longer conventional war that led into the Twilight, thus lacking leftover forces serving overseas and the foreign and abandoned feel of the original

5. It will lack a good vehicle combat system and all of the in depth vehicle descriptions

What I would really like would be for the designers just to suck it up and make it an alternate history background set in the same time period as the original. Look at how popular the Team Yankee table top miniatures game has become. Maybe do a tie in with that game if possible. Twilight 2000 with integrated miniatures rules and cool minis would be great. A generic Post Apocalypse game is totally worthless to me.

Benjamin

[ChalkLine]

This very much. I’m an international politics major/history minor with a background in research and intelligence analysis and have done contract work for the NSA but they dismissed my offers out of hand. When this attitude was brought up on (I think) Yahoo Groups they were less than courteous. I looked over the finished project and found the whole background premise somewhat laughable.

Had a similar experience, and they were even less impressed because I'm a civilian and always have been.

[Olefin]

Better yet would be to just pick either V1 or V2.2 timelines and then make possible rule changes (i.e. incorporate changes to the combat system, make the fuel more realistic as to what kind of energy you can get out of ethanol or methanol, show JL8 jet fuel as what the military was using as a distinctly different fuel than high octane general aviation gas, correct some of the issues in game play that people have found over the years) and then either have the releases be during the current timeline (i.e. up to April 2001 and have them occur during the period that the games covered) or better yet extend the timeline and take it forward thru 2001, 2002, etc..

When I was told they werent looking at Africa or Australia it immediately made me think this was going to be a very North America or Eurocentric game and not expand it to include events all over the world like Raellus and myself did and like the Challenge articles did.

Frankly all we dont need is another aborted Twilight 2013 type launch

FYI as to political views - check out Frank Frey's facebook sometime - not exactly conducive to anyone who is either Christian or voted for Trump or Bush (either one of them) - but he checked his political views at the door when he wrote back in the 80's and 90's and they really didnt impact his work in a noticeable way - same with most of the other canon authors

Hopefully the new writers will be able to follow in their foot steps

[Olefin]

The issues I worry about for V4 are...

What I would really like would be for the designers just to suck it up and make it an alternate history background set in the same time period as the original. Look at how popular the Team Yankee table top miniatures game has become. Maybe do a tie in with that game if possible. Twilight 2000 with integrated miniatures rules and cool minis would be great. A generic Post Apocalypse game is totally worthless to me.

Benjamin

Thats why when I wrote the East Africa/Kenya sourcebook for the canon I set it in the same time period, with mentions of multiple other modules and events (Going Home, the RDF, Kings Ransom among others) to tie it completely into the current timeline. Extended the timeline a month or so - i.e. my "now" is around mid-May 2001 - but otherwise it fits. Even made sure that if I mentioned real world events they took place in the context of the timeline instead of breaking it.

Hopefully the new writers will do something similar

[CDAT]

...

What I would really like would be for the designers just to suck it up and make it an alternate history background set in the same time period as the original. Look at how popular the Team Yankee table top miniatures game has become. Maybe do a tie in with that game if possible. Twilight 2000 with integrated miniatures rules and cool minis would be great. A generic Post Apocalypse game is totally worthless to me.

Benjamin

Um is Team Yankee still even a game? At least in my local area (5 games stores all with places to play) none of them even knows anything about it. We had one member of our local group pick some stuff up for it, but then they killed the forums and that killed what little interest there was in my group. But I have never seen a game played, or even heard of one being played with in at least two hours of where I live, lots of other games that I know nothing about. But if that is the definition of a popular game I think we might be in trouble. As "dead" games have more talk around here than Team Yankee. (Dead games I am talking about are like AOG Babylon 5 Wars, and even Twilight 2000).

[Olefin]

There has been new modules released for Twilight 2000 including one new canon module - thus there are new releases for it that are "in print" - i.e. you can buy new material for it instead of having to depend on either a used bookstore or a pdf of material released years earlier

Thus technically the game was revived from the dead back in 2017

[Benjamin]

Um is Team Yankee still even a game? At least in my local area (5 games stores all with places to play) none of them even knows anything about it. We had one member of our local group pick some stuff up for it, but then they killed the forums and that killed what little interest there was in my group. But I have never seen a game played, or even heard of one being played with in at least two hours of where I live, lots of other games that I know nothing about. But if that is the definition of a popular game I think we might be in trouble. As "dead" games have more talk around here than Team Yankee. (Dead games I am talking about are like AOG Babylon 5 Wars, and even Twilight 2000).

I’m referring to the newer table top skirmish game. It just came out with a new book “Oil War” which covers armies in the Middle East.

https://www.team-yankee.com/

[swaghauler]

This very much. I’m an international politics major/history minor with a background in research and intelligence analysis and have done contract work for the NSA but they dismissed my offers out of hand. When this attitude was brought up on (I think) Yahoo Groups they were less than courteous. I looked over the finished project and found the whole background premise somewhat laughable.

As a man who has had "boots on the ground" in a number of places including The Middle East, South America (as a Civilian tourist in the bad parts of town no less), and Africa, I almost laughed OUT LOUD when I saw the number they attributed to suicides in the intro. The people in Africa live in INHUMAN conditions and aren't killing themselves. That number would have been more realistic if it had been attributed to murder and cannibalism in order to survive. The human animal is "hardwired" to survive and only a small percentage of humans choose to end their lives through suicide. The numbers may seem large when you look at them without context, but the number TW2K13 quoted was like (and I'm guessing because I don't have my copy with me) 2 BILLION(?) who committed suicide. That is a ridiculously large number. ALSO, keep in mind I'm talking about people who actually KILL THEMSELVES NOT people who think about it and don't go through with it in the end. Two billion is a ridiculously large number of people to die by their own hand.

[Legbreaker]

Thats why when I wrote the East Africa/Kenya sourcebook for the canon I set it in the same time period, with mentions of multiple other modules and events (Going Home, the RDF, Kings Ransom among others) to tie it completely into the current timeline.

I'm writing the ANZAC book so it can stand alone without tying in too closely to any of the other books - the only connection really will be to Korea where I intend to send about a Brigade of Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Islander forces to join the UN mission there.
Haven't settled on the date as yet, but likely mid 2000.
Hopefully this new edition won't impact what I've already done too much, and they won't be overly protective of their edition and will actually allow the community to add quality work to the base materials. It'd be even better if they published my work and I actually got paid! :p

Um is Team Yankee still even a game?

I've never even seen it myself, let alone know of it being played anywhere in the whole of Australia. It's possible though I suppose....

[CDAT]

I’m referring to the newer table top skirmish game. It just came out with a new book “Oil War” which covers armies in the Middle East.

https://www.team-yankee.com/

I knew what game you are talking about, I just did not know that it was popular game. As I have never heard of anyone playing it, any store stocking it, or anything like that. As I was saying even games that are thought of as dead (regardless of if they really are or not) are more "popular" than that active game. At least in my area after you take out the card games (Magic and such) probably the next most popular games are Warhammer, and Battletech, followed by Star Wars Armada.

[Olefin]

I'm writing the ANZAC book so it can stand alone without tying in too closely to any of the other books - the only connection really will be to Korea where I intend to send about a Brigade of Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Islander forces to join the UN mission there.
Haven't settled on the date as yet, but likely mid 2000.
Hopefully this new edition won't impact what I've already done too much, and they won't be overly protective of their edition and will actually allow the community to add quality work to the base materials. It'd be even better if they published my work and I actually got paid! :p



I've never even seen it myself, let alone know of it being played anywhere in the whole of Australia. It's possible though I suppose....

I tied mine in to other books to explicitly make sure it showed it was part of the canon - i.e. it was part of the canon, just an area that hadnt been covered before - thus the events of the canon were tied in to it to show that what happened in Kenya didnt happen in a vacuum

[mcchordsage]

About Modiphius, if they are involved, in my one experience with their new (relative terms I guess that was like 2017) Star Trek game, their playtesting process was easy to get involved with. I'd like to think they'd reach out to the community for some comments but who knows.

Whatever the ultimate outcome is, as someone who only contributes even more niche fan content (such as it is), I'll wait to see what happens and vote with my money. A bad timeline can go a long ways to that being a no-buy however the mechanical end turns out. T2K is a WWIII game to me, that's kind of a key aspect over other post-apocalyptic games out there to me.

[Legbreaker]

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website: WRITERS PLEASE NOTE! You must have previous experience of contributing to a published roleplaying game and working to a deadline.
Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

[Jason Weiser]

Let's consider the last "made" contributors were people who have since retired from the industry for the most part, who the hell do they think they are going to get.

Yeah, I am now quite concerned.

That said here is my POV, I am slowly writing my "Charters of Freedom" adventure. (and I do mean slowly...) but the fact is, Rae, Olefin, Leg, and maybe even me...(I only say that because we're published), could meet their standard, if they squint, but the fact remains? I am not too impressed by that.

[vihkr]

I knew what game you are talking about, I just did not know that it was popular game.

North American Nationals 2017--it's pretty big.
https://i.imgur.com/vBVmbN8.jpg

[Jason Weiser]

Am a little iffy on "Team Yankee", just because of the copyrights involved. Battlefront is a big enough company to kick our asses, and they're going to want to develop something inhouse. Now, I do know Shawn Carpenter over at AAG, but he's taking a hiatus right now for personal reasons. And...he's not going to want to do this without permission from Marc Miller.

In short, we're going to have to get permission from Marc to do something like this. Not saying we can't do it, but Marc has got to give his blessing.

And here's what I said on my blog: https://500twilight2000.blogspot.com/2019/05/news-all-around-and-question-to.html

[Sprocketteer]

A lot of the games on offer these days come across to me like some tabletop version of interpretative dance while ignoring the idea of teamwork.


You Sir, are a Poet.



I own several of the Modiphius games and really do not like their 2d20 system.

Part of what my group and I enjoyed of Twilight 2000 (& The Morrow Project), was the 'feel' of the systems. To us the mechanics of those games worked with, and were an important part of the settings - they belonged together, and worked together - and to us non military types, 'felt' a bit military (and yes, gung ho-ing over the gun porn helped too lol) - for my groups at least.
It is hard for me to imagine a twilight game that doesn't use v1/2 rules.
My groups almost always preferred percentile based systems over d20, always felt more natural to us.


My initial concern was that it might appear using the wotc 5e OGL lol.
"Sarge! The LT is hit, we need a long rest!"

[vihkr]

Part of what my group and I enjoyed of Twilight 2000 (& The Morrow Project), was the 'feel' of the systems. To us the mechanics of those games worked with, and were an important part of the settings - they belonged together, and worked together - and to us non military types, 'felt' a bit military (and yes, gung ho-ing over the gun porn helped too lol) - for my groups at least.
It is hard for me to imagine a twilight game that doesn't use v1/2 rules.
My groups almost always preferred percentile based systems over d20, always felt more natural to us.

Fair point, and my feelings exactly, but I think those days are over, as far as market share goes. The notable exception would be Basic Roleplaying d100, which could make a decent, spiritual successor in terms of a system, to v1/2.2

My initial concern was that it might appear using the wotc 5e OGL lol.
"Sarge! The LT is hit, we need a long rest!"

Monk's truck is hit by an RPG! Everyone make a save vs. spells to dive out and take no damage!

[CDAT]

North American Nationals 2017--it's pretty big.

And yet I can not find a game store within two counties that will even order any stuff for it. So yes it may be big in some area, but I do not think it is as popular nation/world wide as you are trying to make it out to be (I could be wrong, as I am just going of what I can see locally). Like I said earlier one of the members of my local group (me) bought some stuff, and after checking out all the game stores around me none of them would even order it as their disputers did not carry it, so I went online. Most of the cheap sites did not have it in stock (maybe because it was popular, but looked more to me like dumping stock as did not even have all the stuff that was available for it). So I ended up having to go and buy it from the company them self. Reading the rules it is a fair to OK game but did not convey the feel I got from the books or the sandbox. Then they closed down their forums and that was the last my local group even tried to get into it. Our thought was if they do not want to support their own games, (let players talk to each other, and ask questions of the company) then we are not going to try the game out, as we assumed (incorrectly it looks like) that, that was a sign they were not going to be supporting the game.

So summing up, it may be popular in some places, it is dead before arrival in mine. Locally, no store would even order it last time I asked, and no one knows anything about it as a game even now.

[Olefin]

"Monk's truck is hit by an RPG! Everyone make a save vs. spells to dive out and take no damage!"

Ok that is funny

[Silent Hunter UK]

Just seen the news of this; be interesting to see how it goes...

[swaghauler]

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website:
Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

I guess that relegates me to posting my house rules here in the forum.

[swaghauler]

Fair point, and my feelings exactly, but I think those days are over, as far as market share goes. The notable exception would be Basic Roleplaying d100, which could make a decent, spiritual successor in terms of a system, to v1/2.2



Monk's truck is hit by an RPG! Everyone make a save vs. spells to dive out and take no damage!

Caught you! There is NO save versus Spells! That would be a DEX save and you'd better have Proficiency too! :rolleyes:

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Caught you! There is NO save versus Spells! That would be a DEX save and you'd better have Proficiency too! :rolleyes:
And with 5th Ed., Dex is the One Stat To Rule Them All so if Monk makes his Dex save he probably only takes half damage at worst.
Forget using the RPG on the truck, try using it on Monk with D&D rules - Monk's a Warrior class so he's got buckets of hitpoints. He could probably survive a direct hit to the torso with a PG-7 round because of this, even if he failed the Dex check.


Which is exactly the reason I don't like using rules from a fantasy game for any modern, military, sci-fi or near-future games.

[swaghauler]

And with 5th Ed., Dex is the One Stat To Rule Them All so if Monk makes his Dex save he probably only takes half damage at worst.
Forget using the RPG on the truck, try using it on Monk with D&D rules - Monk's a Warrior class so he's got buckets of hitpoints. He could probably survive a direct hit to the torso with a PG-7 round because of this, even if he failed the Dex check.


Which is exactly the reason I don't like using rules from a fantasy game for any modern, military, sci-fi or near-future games.

5e Is the ONLY RPG I have seen where a character can fall from low Earth orbit without a parachute, live, and be "fighting fit" the next day. It's kind of a joke to me. Give me RUNEQUEST's lethality any day!

Remember, it's NOT a real fight in BRP/RuneQuest if someone isn't suffering an amputation!

[vihkr]

>tanking RPG hits
>falling from LEO and surviving

Sounds like the perfect v5 ruleset /sarc

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I've reached out to Modiphius on behalf of Raellus, Olefin and myself with the aim of discussing our products and how they might tie into the new edition.
Hopefully they get back to me shortly and we can figure something out.

Noted this on their website:
Seems that they may not be all that friendly to new writers...

Let's consider the last "made" contributors were people who have since retired from the industry for the most part, who the hell do they think they are going to get.

Yeah, I am now quite concerned.

That said here is my POV, I am slowly writing my "Charters of Freedom" adventure. (and I do mean slowly...) but the fact is, Rae, Olefin, Leg, and maybe even me...(I only say that because we're published), could meet their standard, if they squint, but the fact remains? I am not too impressed by that.

I guess that relegates me to posting my house rules here in the forum.

Compare that with the approach that Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy... they actively asked well known members of the Dark Conspiracy fanbase if they knew people who would like to contribute to the new edition (as well as asking them if they wished to contribute).

[Legbreaker]

Compare that with the approach that Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy... they actively asked well known members of the Dark Conspiracy fanbase if they knew people who would like to contribute to the new edition (as well as asking them if they wished to contribute).

And that is a great example of good marketing. They instantly gained a lot of happy and loyal customers. They didn't even need to use any of the submissions, just ask for them to make everyone feel like they were a part of the greater product.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

And that is a great example of good marketing. They instantly gained a lot of happy and loyal customers. They didn't even need to use any of the submissions, just ask for them to make everyone feel like they were a part of the greater product.
For sure. It's a smart move for exactly the reasons you mention. But they did go "all the way" so to speak and actually get some of those people involved.
People like Marcus Bone (who has been involved with ezines & a forum supporting the game as well as being part of the 2nd edition developers/writers), there's also Lee Williams (who has contributed to ezines as well as being part of the team behind the 3rd edition) are actively writing parts of the books such as character creation & development and updating equipment & gear lists and so on.

[Legbreaker]

It's good policy from a HR standpoint too. As you mentioned, a company can pick up good people at a minimal cost just by spreading the word through associated forums and the like.

We've got close to a thousand members in this forum alone, with what, about 50 or so active contributors per week give or take? I know as fact that there are quite a number of talented people in just those who are active, and many, many different and relevant skill sets. It just makes sense to look in places such as this for contributions and feedback.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

One of the other benefits is that they picked up writers who had some passion for the project, people who were invested in the game, rather than just contracting someone to write articles for something they have little/no interest in.

[therantingsavant]

So I posted this on Steph's FB group but thought it might add to some of the discussion here...

Having written as a line author for an RPG company I’d note than many require a Non-Disclosure Agreement about unreleased products but also authors we would spend time “lurking” on forums etc (often being suspiciously quiet in retrospect) to get some idea of the mood and needs of the existing fan-base.

All that being said edition change is complex and particularly when it involves a licence change from one company (usually with its preferred system) to another (likewise with it’s preferred system) - that’s just the nature of business but most successful edition changes do give some consideration to a one or two way “conversion” guide (often a free PDF) to draw on existing resources / fan base - the risk is affecting sales of subsequent supplements beyond the core rules, however a 2-way (back conversion eg v4 to v2.2 or v2013 even for T2k) can offset this in some cases.

[Jason Weiser]

Guys,
Heard back from Modiphius Entertainment....Here is the text of their note.

Hi Jason
​
Thanks for the email and reaching out. However, I've checked with the team and can confirm that we are not working on Twilight: 2000. Sorry we can't help on this occasion!

Shaun
Customer Support

Modiphius Entertainment

www.modiphius.com
www.facebook.com/modiphius

[vihkr]

Just to recap: we got news that Modiphius was working on T2K
Multi-post frenzy
>Modiphius is not working on T2K
Everything's normal here, just carry on.

[Olefin]

Ok so we know there is a version 4 being worked on, we know that Chris Lites is working on it (see multiple posts on Steph's Twilight 2000 facebook group) and that there will be an announcement on it in the fall and that Marc has confirmed that there will be a version 4

The inference that it would be Modiphius based on the fact that Chris works for them was not correct - a good educated guess but not correct based on the letter that Jason received

Thus we will have to see who it is when the announcement is made and if they are open to running it past people here on this forum at that time

[Legbreaker]

Guys,
Heard back from Modiphius Entertainment....Here is the text of their note.

Got the same message from the same person just a couple of hours ago.

[Olefin]

Got the same message from the same person just a couple of hours ago.

well now we know who it wont be - and have a feeling Marc and Chris may wait till the fall announcement for who it will be -

[Legbreaker]

Anyone else got any bright ideas about who it is? Perhaps those behind 93 Games Studio got their shit together and are having a crack again?
Hey, it's as good a theory as anyone else's at this point! :rolleyes:

[Olefin]

well whoever it is Chris writes for them - but got me who else he does stuff for - right now basically its anyone's guess - but since there are board members who have written for other companies we will see - probably we will have to wait and see if Chris or Marc lets out any more info

[Legbreaker]

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games
Also Paizo Publishing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paizo_Publishing
Catalyst Game Labs
https://www.catalystgamelabs.com

Chances are it's one of them, but who knows. Seems he gets around A LOT!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games
Also Paizo Publishing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paizo_Publishing
Catalyst Game Labs
https://www.catalystgamelabs.com

Chances are it's one of them, but who knows. Seems he gets around A LOT!
Oh damn!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let it be Catalyst Games.
One of my friends has been running a ShadowRun 5th Ed. game - we found the rules less useful than they could have been and started converting back to earlier editions.
Then we saw the plans for 6th edition and the members of the gaming group who have played the earlier editions have rejected 6th Ed. out of hand.

And as for the quality of the books for 5th Ed. - less than impressed. An index would work fine... assuming the page numbers in the index actually referred to the correct page numbers and assuming certain rules and concepts were not splashed over multiple pages that have no connection to each other.

[Ewan]

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

[CDAT]

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

I hope Mongoose Publishing is not an option, every game of theirs that I have had any interest in the past they have stopped supporting.

[vihkr]

>Paizo

That would be effed up too: T2K d20 Pathfinder Edition
YIKES

[swaghauler]

Oh damn!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let it be Catalyst Games.
One of my friends has been running a ShadowRun 5th Ed. game - we found the rules less useful than they could have been and started converting back to earlier editions.
Then we saw the plans for 6th edition and the members of the gaming group who have played the earlier editions have rejected 6th Ed. out of hand.

And as for the quality of the books for 5th Ed. - less than impressed. An index would work fine... assuming the page numbers in the index actually referred to the correct page numbers and assuming certain rules and concepts were not splashed over multiple pages that have no connection to each other.

I got roped into GMing a Shadowrun game by the DM who was running the 5e campaign in honor of the 30-year anniversary of Shadowrun. We ended going back to my 3e because his 5e was a "hot mess" to use. I have SIX SETS of d6s that I bought from Walmart and they weren't enough to play 5e with 4 players. I'm trying to transition the group AWAY from Shadowrun into Dark Conspiracy because the GDW D20 system is just easier to use than FASA's "Success system." The major issue with this system in a Twilight2000 setting would be the haphazard way it handles both explosives and automatic weapons.

[swaghauler]

>Paizo

That would be effed up too: T2K d20 Pathfinder Edition
YIKES

LOL. Merc Class with Dual Wielding Machineguns and the Rage FEAT! Whoohoo! :ninja1:

[swaghauler]

I hope Mongoose Publishing is not an option, every game of theirs that I have had any interest in the past they have stopped supporting.

Their LEGEND system would be the most adaptable to a V1-like Twilight2000 but they are sloppy with their production values (I have Mongoose Runequest I and II as well as LEGEND). They would be open to 3rd party participation in game development but I have no idea what their guidelines are.

[swaghauler]

Compare that with the approach that Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy... they actively asked well known members of the Dark Conspiracy fanbase if they knew people who would like to contribute to the new edition (as well as asking them if they wished to contribute).

I need to pop into the Dark Conspiracy forum if I'm going to be running it as a new campaign. I wonder if Clockwork is still taking contributions to the game. I'd like to get my optics and spotting posts evaluated.

[Olefin]

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

Thank you for saying that- I bet Raellus really appreciates that as well!

[Olefin]

LOL. Merc Class with Dual Wielding Machineguns and the Rage FEAT! Whoohoo! :ninja1:

well so much for realism

[Legbreaker]

On a somewhat related note, some of the people behind Leading Edge Games (which shut it's doors a few decades ago), i.e. the ones who published Phoenix Command, Living Steel, Aliens, Terminator, Lawnmower Man and Dracula (all based on the Phoenix Command system) are working on new products for Living Steel.

There have been a few delays due to real life, but work now proceeds at an accelerated rate. Here is the state of the current writing:

First draft sits at 60k words
Detailed outline for an additional 120k words
Rough outline for an additional 600-800k words
We have supporting material for story arcs beyond those outlined.

As mentioned before the original timeline from LS/DSR has been compressed to better support the novel format. Several other mechanisms have also changed as a result, although most other events and story elements remain the same.

Also, we're hoping to get something going with livingsteel.com (generously donated by Akos!) this year, although what the actual content will be has yet to be decided. If you have thoughts on what you'd like to see we'd be happy to hear them!

[therantingsavant]

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games

So I used to write for Atlas Games and I'd be surprised if they were involved given their product line and focus. I don't know a lot about Feng Shui mechanics or similar but they're not likely to be easily adaptable for a T2k setting so we can probably rule that one out...

[Legbreaker]

Given what products Chris has worked on in the past, I'm wondering why he's involved in this one? Doesn't really seem his thing....
And that doesn't bode well in my opinion, although that's just my opinion...

[Legbreaker]

...Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy...

I'm wondering if it's them behind the 4th ed T2K. Would make a lot of sense given they've already done most of the hard work tweaking the rules, and both games have always gone pretty much hand in hand with each other...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm wondering if it's them behind the 4th ed T2K. Would make a lot of sense given they've already done most of the hard work tweaking the rules, and both games have always gone pretty much hand in hand with each other...
As far as I can tell, Clockwork is not behind a 4th edition of T2k. It's never come up in conversation and it was new info for some of the other developers when I mentioned it in our online workspace.
Full disclosure time.
My name is Kevin O'Neill, I'm on the team at Clockwork Publishing (AKA Uhrwerk Verlag) developing the 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy.
I wasn't keen to disclose much about it so I never mentioned anything outright but it's why I've been gobbing off about the 4th edition all the time. Since the launch of the crowdfunder, I don't think there's now any restriction on me coughing up that I'm on the development team.

I need to pop into the Dark Conspiracy forum if I'm going to be running it as a new campaign. I wonder if Clockwork is still taking contributions to the game. I'd like to get my optics and spotting posts evaluated.
Interestingly enough, one of the sections I've been assigned is surveillance devices so some optical devices fall under my tasks at least as far as equipment lists are concerned. I've asked for some clarification as far as weapons sights go but I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be part of a "catch-all" group such as Other Equipment.

The recruiting drive was started in the middle of 2018 and concluded in the last half of that year. They probably aren't looking for new team members but I've asked if they're interested and I'm just waiting on a reply.
Alternately I can submit your material for you if they're interested in just the submission (under your name so you get full credit) but in either case, I can't guarantee anything beyond them thinking about it.
I'll let you know once I know.

[Legbreaker]

Interesting.....
FYI, I'm writing the Anzac book in a way that will allow it to be used for DC as well with a few relatively minor tweaks. As I said before, the two games always seemed like siblings to me.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Interesting.....
FYI, I'm writing the Anzac book in a way that will allow it to be used for DC as well with a few relatively minor tweaks. As I said before, the two games always seemed like siblings to me.
Like most rpgs set in the real world, Australia gets a mention but doesn't get developed much beyond that.
In the first edition of Dark Conspiracy, there was barely a mention of Australia but there was a significant conclusion that could be drawn about the country from some flavour text early in the main book. It basically said, the Eastern Australian Air Force had nuked Melbourne but was refusnig to say why.
So, we have Australia split into at least two new nations with one of them being inferred (Eastern Australia) and this new nation has the ability to either acquire or make nuclear weapons - both of which require a committed government (but government none-the-less, see below). And we have a major infestation of the Dark corrupting enough of Melbourne that it was decided to "bomb it back to the stone age."
As an aside, I wrote an article building upon this that I'm hoping will make the next issue of The Dark Times ezine

In the case of 4th edition, at this current time in development, the country has suffered the loss of government (at federal, state & local levels) due to major infestations of Demonground in the major cities. Australia has become a nation of nomands as a result.
So there's little chance that any sort of unified "Australian" response to events within Australia would take place and basically no chance for events outside the country.
I'm hoping that will change in the final product because I see an Australia as a nation of nomads being unstustainable when there are no cities left to produce fuel & food. I'd like to see Australia given the sort of treatment that can be implied by the movies Mad Max and The Rover rather than the idea of it becoming Mad Max 2 & 3

However, in regards to your material, everything depends on the timeline.
Dark Conspiracy was traditionally "near future" and 1st Ed. was set around 2013-18 so for 4th Ed. you could imply anytime after about 2025.
Your material could be one of the final "Australian" actions that take place before the country goes down the gurgler. If significant numbers of Australian military forces had been deployed outside the country, there'd be insufficient numbers left to deal with the Demonground infestations.
And there'd be very little left for them to return home to but it would be an echo of T2k's Going Home with all the adventure potential of that.

[swaghauler]

The recruiting drive was started in the middle of 2018 and concluded in the last half of that year. They probably aren't looking for new team members but I've asked if they're interested and I'm just waiting on a reply.
Alternately I can submit your material for you if they're interested in just the submission (under your name so you get full credit) but in either case, I can't guarantee anything beyond them thinking about it.
I'll let you know once I know.

You're more than welcome to take ANYTHING I've posted in this Forum and use it as needed. Feel free to convert it into whatever format you need as well. I feel I can trust most of the members of this forum (and I CANNOT say that about the majority of forums I post in). My hope is to see a "more complete" version of the V2.2 rules than GDW did initially.

I'm also interested in seeing a "universal" damage standard. Melee weapons should use multiple dice just like firearms do. I would use a Melee version of the Unarmed Combat formula to generate a number between 1 and 5 and use that as the NUMBER of Damage dice the character rolls. The TYPE of die should be based on the Weapon itself. Melee weapons should be every bit as dangerous as firearms within their reach. I would also see HTH damage rolled as multiple dice but treated as STUN Damage not killing damage. By having only one Damage system, you reduce confusion about how Damage works during play.

Lethality NEEDS to increase a bit too. You can do that by reducing HP per location though. I use;
Head = CON
Chest & Abdomen = CON + STR
Arms = 2 X STR + CON
Legs = 2 X CON + STR

This reduces each location to a low of 5 Hp up to a high of 15 Hp for a perfectly average character. This increases lethality WITHOUT making the characters "glass cannons."

[StainlessSteelCynic]

You're more than welcome to take ANYTHING I've posted in this Forum and use it as needed. Feel free to convert it into whatever format you need as well. I feel I can trust most of the members of this forum (and I CANNOT say that about the majority of forums I post in). My hope is to see a "more complete" version of the V2.2 rules than GDW did initially.

I'm also interested in seeing a "universal" damage standard. Melee weapons should use multiple dice just like firearms do. I would use a Melee version of the Unarmed Combat formula to generate a number between 1 and 5 and use that as the NUMBER of Damage dice the character rolls. The TYPE of die should be based on the Weapon itself. Melee weapons should be every bit as dangerous as firearms within their reach. I would also see HTH damage rolled as multiple dice but treated as STUN Damage not killing damage. By having only one Damage system, you reduce confusion about how Damage works during play.

Lethality NEEDS to increase a bit too. You can do that by reducing HP per location though. I use;
Head = CON
Chest & Abdomen = CON + STR
Arms = 2 X STR + CON
Legs = 2 X CON + STR

This reduces each location to a low of 5 Hp up to a high of 15 Hp for a perfectly average character. This increases lethality WITHOUT making the characters "glass cannons."
Unfortunately I don't have any input into the damage rules, that's someone else's assignment.
The Dark Conspiracy 4th Ed. rules are based on the D20 system used for 1st Ed. Dark Conspiracy (which in all practical terms made it version 1.1) and for DC 2nd Ed.
"Based upon them" but with some differences and the overall aim has been to streamline them and overhaul Initiative and a few other points here and there but keep the base compatible with earlier versions so old hands feel familiar with it and it makes conversion of older materials easier.

So a more comprehensive version of V2.2 it probably won't be.
As for reducing hit points, I pitched that one to the team because I was using almost the same system for my own games that you have used. I also did the work on melee weapons but it was based on the damage system from the previous editions with the understanding that whatever rules changes are decided upon for damage will be applied to the melee weapon stats so that they are updated to the 4th Ed. standard.
The rules team have one approach they're working on regarding damage in all its forms but they are looking at various ideas. Whether PCs have reduced hit points or not in the final product or whether there is a more unified damage system, it's too soon for me to know.

[Cdnwolf]

Anybody ask Smokewolf since he worked on Twl2013 for 93 Games Studio and might know what's going on with the licence?

[EvilvonScary]

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

[Olefin]

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

I agree with you completely - Paul, myself and Raellus have a very public presence out there and could have been easily contacted - and you would think they would be looking for writers - especially with so many of the original canon writers no longer active. And Paul's site is literally a gold mine for anyone who writes for the game - heck I cited it in my module as a way to avoid having to take a bunch of pages to detail out vehicles and equipment that he has already taken great pains to do so.

[pmulcahy11b]

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

My pages even say that future writers of versions of Twilight may use the information on my pages, freely!

[Olefin]

My pages even say that future writers of versions of Twilight may use the information on my pages, freely!

Yup - thats why I have that in my release

"Please refer to any of the several different vehicle sourcebooks that have been released for Twilight 2000 and its various editions for details of the vehicles, aircraft and weapons used in this sourcebook.

Another excellent source for stats and information on new vehicles, small arms and artillery not previously mentioned in those sourcebooks (for instance the Casspir APC) would be the http://www.pmulcahy.com site which is a veritable treasure house of information for the Twilight 2000 game"

[Legbreaker]

It's the best unofficial site anywhere in existence for the game. So good it might as well be official!

[Raellus]

Hear, hear!

I credit, and direct readers to, Paul's website in both my published T2K works (Rook's Gambit, and the Korean Peninsula Sourcebook).

Thank you, Paul!

[kato13]

I will jump on the Paul thanks bandwagon.

100% this site would not be here if Paul's site had not rekindled my interest in T2k more than 2 decades ago.

Your site is ever improving and IMO the best one man site in ALL of gaming for almost as long as the web has been in commonplace use. Quite impressive.

Your efforts and positive effect on the T2k world cannot be overstated.

Kudos to you.

[Olefin]

Add my name to the list of kudos as well - and frankly the smartest thing that could be done by the new owners would be to declare his site as an official source for the game.

[mcchordsage]

Same here. Finding Paul's sites was one of the things that convinced me this old book I'd picked up wasn't dead!