New Twilight 2000 Map of Poland

[Ewan]

Over on Facebook the map for Poland for the new version of Twilight 2000 appeared and in my opinion it looks good. It was also mentioned that a Kickstarter will be launched early next year.

[Olefin]

Which facebook group - there are several?

Also is the kickstarter to fund the game start?

[cawest]

more info please

[Legbreaker]

Which facebook group - there are several?
The one that practices censorship.
Also is the kickstarter to fund the game start?
Apparently so.

[Olefin]

Oh you mean the Facebook group that kicked me and you out of it because we were conservatives? Yeah I remember that Facebook group. FYI the game will now be a 2020 release - originally was supposed to be late summer early fall of this year

[Legbreaker]

And a kickstarter from an established company? Seems like they're a bit unwilling to shoulder much of the financial risk to me...

[Olefin]

thats whats worrying me - i.e. what is the threshhold to kick the new version off - and are we looking at possibly a single release of a rulebook and new version of Escape from Kalisz or are they putting together multiple modules that follow one after the other to build interest in the game?

That was one thing that V2.2 really didnt have - they only really released two scenarios - Bangkok and the rehash of Krakow. And based on Krakow you had to think eventually many of the V1 modules would have been rewrites as well - but that never happened.

And it took until the East Africa Kenya Sourcebook and Korea to get more new material outside of some Challenge articles

Lets hope its a fully realized world with material ready to go and not one where we get the rulebook and maybe one module and then its who knows how long till another one - especially if the kickstarter fails.

And its seems they really arent promoting it right - i.e. why wasnt the map published here and on our facebook group and other places all at once in a coordinated effort? Why wasnt it released on drivethrurpg.com as a teaser for what is to come? Instead from what I can see it was pushed out on one facebook group only.

If its going to be funded by a kickstarter you need a very wide release of that news to get as much funding as possible so that its not just one man working on it - no matter how good a writer you are, one man alone cant really support a whole new edition.

[cawest]

any link to the Kickstarter?

[Legbreaker]

any link to the Kickstarter?

Apparently not until sometime next year.

[Legbreaker]

And its seems they really arent promoting it right - i.e. why wasnt the map published here and on our facebook group and other places all at once in a coordinated effort? Why wasnt it released on drivethrurpg.com as a teaser for what is to come? Instead from what I can see it was pushed out on one facebook group only.

Apparently it's just Chris leaking information with the approval of those above.
What annoys me most is that he won't even pass on my contact details so I have a chance at talking to whoever's behind this about the Anzac Sourcebook.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

thats whats worrying me - i.e. what is the threshhold to kick the new version off - and are we looking at possibly a single release of a rulebook and new version of Escape from Kalisz or are they putting together multiple modules that follow one after the other to build interest in the game?

That was one thing that V2.2 really didnt have - they only really released two scenarios - Bangkok and the rehash of Krakow. And based on Krakow you had to think eventually many of the V1 modules would have been rewrites as well - but that never happened.
<snip>
I think you're spot on with this but I'd add a minor correction and a confirmation.
I believe the first adventure module GDW released for 2nd Ed. was Castle by the Sea. There was also Operation Crouching Dragon but that was meant for Merc: 2000
The rehash of Krakow was definitely the start of republishing at least some of the 1st Ed. modules for the 2nd edition. It was volume one of the Vistula Epic, volume two would have been Death on the Vistula and volume three would have been Warsaw Phoenix.
These three modules are (if I remember) 2.2 versions of The Free City of Krakow, Pirates of the Vistula and The Ruins of Warsaw respectively.

Unfortunately, the Vistula Epic was being published in 1995 and as we know, various things happened at that time that saw GDW close up shop.
But I believe this really reinforces your point, I think 2nd Ed. was published in 1990 or 1991? Castle by the Sea was published in 1992. The 2.2 rules book was released in 1993 and then nearly two years later they were starting to release European adventure modules.
So almost five years after the release of 2nd edition T2k they were finally starting to put out a series of 2nd Ed. adventure modules set in Europe (which just happened to be the beginning location of the game setting!). T2k gamers knew there was plenty of material for the game because 1st Ed. had something like two dozen advenure modules.

That's a bit too long between drinks so to speak. There was already a ton of material written for Europe and North America so why wasn't it being seen in 2nd Ed.? To be fair, I reckon GDW felt that it wasn't a good idea to make players pay for the same info they already had from the 1st Ed. modules. I suppose they believed that players could convert the 1st Ed. modules over to 2nd Ed. easily enough.
I think that they were also a little pre-occupied with Armor 21 as their next incarnation of the military rpg.

So anyway, taking all that in view of talk of a 4th edition release, yeah, I hope that they have a plan for more than just a rule book and some equipment supplements. If not I don't see that it'll have any longevity or wider appeal. It'd be just another niche game with a minor release of product. If that's the case, I can't see it being worth putting money in for their kickstarter.

[Legbreaker]

....I can't see it being worth putting money in for their kickstarter.

And if their stretch goals are things like t-shirts, pins, pregen character bios (which most of us could do in our sleep), "limited edition artwork, and other "novelty" crap, well, not a very good sign is it...?
If they reach these levels of funding we want proper resources, actual written words with actually useful gaming material. I for one wouldn't want to be paying to wear a shirt which is little more than a billboard advertising their game for their profit.

[Olefin]

I agree with you Leg - and heck they already could have two modules ready to go just by working with you on an ANZAC sourcebook and taking Raellus's Korea Sourcebook and adapting it for the 4th edition - and two more if they added Rook's Gambit and told me what I had to do to adapt East Africa Kenya (if need be) for any 4th edition timeline or otherwise change.

Do that and you have an official guide and four ready made releases right off the bat (or alternatively Raellus and I could write something new specifically for 4th edition along with you and whoever else has material ready to go)

And its not just you who has no contact from whoever is doing this - havent heard anything and I bet Raellus hasnt either. And you figure you want the biggest possible splash when you launch. Especially if it is playable but there is nothing beyond a rule book to use.

[Ewan]

Will the ANZAC book ever be released? Thanks

[Raellus]

For me, the map release begs the question whether v4 is a reboot of v1.0-2.2, set in an alternative history in which the Cold War didn't end, or an in-our-timeline near future WWIII scenario a-la Twilight 2030 also set in Poland.

Despite its faults, Twilight 2013 at least tried to produce something fresh.

[CDAT]

My big concern with kickstarter, is the exclusives. I find that they do more harm than good to the long term life of the game. They do help the kickstarter, but I have seen several games after finding out that they were kickstarted and I will no be able to get all the stuff for them (not talking about swag) I pass and I know several others in my game group who do the same.

[Legbreaker]

Will the ANZAC book ever be released? Thanks

Yes, but the uncertainty about this supposed 4th ed is making it difficult and definitely delaying me. I've got the outline done but can't really get the details on paper until I know a bit more about 4th ed. What will the timeline look like, will they be willing to incorporate what I'm doing with their material, and if not, how much of a fight will they put up if I want to publish it as compatible with the earlier editions? How much can they support my work and vis versa. Artwork is a particular problem I'm facing given my budget of exactly nil to purchase it.
These (and more) are all questions which should have been answered six months ago, but I simply CANNOT even find out who to ask, let alone get a response from them!
Meanwhile, I'm teaching myself staff college level logistics and strategy so the end result is as accurate and believable as possible.

[Olefin]

Yes, but the uncertainty about this supposed 4th ed is making it difficult and definitely delaying me. I've got the outline done but can't really get the details on paper until I know a bit more about 4th ed. What will the timeline look like, will they be willing to incorporate what I'm doing with their material, and if not, how much of a fight will they put up if I want to publish it as compatible with the earlier editions? How much can they support my work and vis versa. Artwork is a particular problem I'm facing given my budget of exactly nil to purchase it.
These (and more) are all questions which should have been answered six months ago, but I simply CANNOT even find out who to ask, let alone get a response from them!
Meanwhile, I'm teaching myself staff college level logistics and strategy so the end result is as accurate and believable as possible.

For artwork just use photos like Raellus and I used - but make sure they are ones that can be used in a for profit work. Fan canon can use anything but if you want to make money you need photos that can be used for for profit works or you can get majorly sued.

[Legbreaker]

...you want to make money you need photos that can be used for for profit works or you can get majorly sued.

Ideally I would get a few $$$ for it, so you can see the issue.

[Olefin]

If you are looking for artwork Leg ask some of the guys on our facebook group - some of the modified photos there might be useful - and I have no idea what the status would be of a modified photo - i.e. where you process it so it looks more like the original Twilight 2000 artwork - if that now becomes legal to use

for instance the fanzine I am working on - and yes I am working on it sorry if real life gets in the way but I have Jason's and Matt's parts done already and working on others as to organizing them and putting them in order - could use a bigger variety of photos as its not for profit - thus opening up photos I could never use for profit - but even there some are off limits