Music in T2K

[Raellus]

Alt-rock band Cage the Elephant has a new song called, Black Madonna. As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with the Virgin of Czestochowa but, of course, it got me thinking about T2K.

We have a few scattered threads dealing on and off with music but I'd like to restart those conversations in a central location.

What music makes you think about T2K?

Oddly, Al B Sure's late '80s slow jam, Nite and Day. It must have come on the radio when I was pouring over the v1.0 for the first time. Every time I've heard it since, I've been transported back to that special moment.

What music inspires you to play T2K?

I've never played an Armies of the Night campaign, but I think Billy Joel's,Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway) is a perfect soundtrack for that module.

What are your thoughts on music in the T2KU?

I think music- live music, especially- would become even more important in the T2KU than it is today. Without electricity, there would be fewer entertainment options. Entertainment would hearken back to earlier times. That one annoying guy at the party that picks up an acoustic guitar and starts strumming Coldplay and singing "Yellow" would suddenly become more popular. Remember the scene near the end of 1917, when the runner encounters the unit in the forest, and the Tommies are all sitting around listening to the haunting voice of the company's best singer?

I can see music becoming a way to record and transmit history again. I reckon that bards/troubadours/minstrels would once again become a thing.

Working record, cassette, compact disc, and MP3 players (depending on your timeline) and corresponding media would a valuable commodity.

Surviving commercial radio transmitters, as well as broadcasting news/propaganda and whatnot, would play music to raise moral.

Feel free to share whatever thoughts, recommendations, ideas, ect. you have about music as it pertains to T2K.

[Legbreaker]

By 2000 I'm thinking very little "commercial" music due mainly to the lack of batteries and working players. Most will be live using whatever instruments are available.

[Raellus]

By 2000 I'm thinking very little "commercial" music due mainly to the lack of batteries and working players. Most will be live using whatever instruments are available.

That's a good point.

How common are hand-cranked "survival" radios in Europe (and elsewhere outside the U.S.)?

I can visualize a platoon rotating who plays "DJ" ( i.e. the unlucky fellow who pedals the bike-powered generator) so that the rest of the unit can listen to the radio or a cassette or whatever.

[Legbreaker]

How common are hand-cranked "survival" radios in Europe (and elsewhere outside the U.S.)?

They exist in Australia, but not many are aware of them. Only sailors, serious hikers, etc really. Getting your hands on one could be another problem again, not to mention that without broadcasts, they're just another piece of useless crap you probably don't want to be carrying about.

Perhaps a more important point is music is not very conducive to stealth and concealment. Only a unit with an idiot in command would consider music a good idea generally. In the middle of a cantonment, or rear echelon of a battalion plus sized unit then maybe, but otherwise, it's almost an invitation to be attacked.

Civilians may be more lax especially in the early days, but having a working radio could be seen as a sign of relative wealth and again invite attack from marauders. By 2000, any travelling group will likely highly value avoiding attention, but within the "safety" of a settlement music of some sort will probably be fairly common (provided the overall morale isn't too low due to starvation, disease, etc). In those situations almost any type of music or entertainment could be greatly valued with strong interest shown in new records, CDs, tapes or even decent musical instruments and sheet music. When you've had only the same dozen CDs for 6 months ANYTHING different is good!

[Olefin]

We know that in the canon there are low power AM stations still broadcasting - New America was using them for propaganda purposes - one of them was mentioned in Urban Guerrilla - thus there have to be people using car radios, hand cranked radios, battery powered radios to pick it up - but may be limited times - i.e. "we will be on from 6am to 9am every other day" kind of operations

Also there are areas with power that is still on - Western NY from the generators at Niagara Falls, the area around Colorado Springs from the nuclear power plant there, etc - there you would have actual radio stations broadcasting and people listening to music on radios

As to performers - betting there will be lots of live music of various kinds ranging from a couple of guys with guitars or a banjo and fiddle all the way up to established musical figures - can see Ted Nugent for instance (who was and is a major survivalist figure here in the US) still around and still performing

[Enfield]

We know that in the canon there are low power AM stations still broadcasting - New America was using them for propaganda purposes - one of them was mentioned in Urban Guerrilla - thus there have to be people using car radios, hand cranked radios, battery powered radios to pick it up - but may be limited times - i.e. "we will be on from 6am to 9am every other day" kind of operations

Also there are areas with power that is still on - Western NY from the generators at Niagara Falls, the area around Colorado Springs from the nuclear power plant there, etc - there you would have actual radio stations broadcasting and people listening to music on radios

As to performers - betting there will be lots of live music of various kinds ranging from a couple of guys with guitars or a banjo and fiddle all the way up to established musical figures - can see Ted Nugent for instance (who was and is a major survivalist figure here in the US) still around and still performing



I was actually just working on this.

On YouTube you can find a lot of acoustic versions of popular music. For example, I'm going to have the party aware of someone playing Green Day's "Basket Case" in a bar or on a street corner and it drawing a larger crowd than it would have prewar.

Places with a larger population might also have choirs, particularly more religious communities. There are choral versions of popular music as well.

[rcaf_777]

There is this option too

http://www.wantokent.com/products.htm

[Legbreaker]

Also there are areas with power that is still on - Western NY from the generators at Niagara Falls, the area around Colorado Springs from the nuclear power plant there, etc...

How much of that power is for personal consumption is a big question though. My thoughts are priority would be given to vital industry, food production/processing, the military (again pretty heavily rationed though) and if there's anything left, then the general population might get a trickle for an hour or two.

[Raellus]

I imagine that anywhere a generator of any kind is available, you'd be likely to hear recorded music.

I also think travelling musician would become a viable career c.1998 and beyond, at least in areas where banditry wasn't a big problem. I can see road shows with musicians, actors, jugglers, magicians, and other live entertainers travelling from town to town, playing for food and shelter.

If you haven't read Station 11, by Emily St. John-Mandel, I recommend it. It's mostly set 20 years after a Swine Flu pandemic kills off most of the world's population and features a troupe of travelling performers in the Great Lakes region of the U.S.

[Legbreaker]

I imagine that anywhere a generator of any kind is available, you'd be likely to hear recorded music.

I think you're right, provided of course it's safe to do so and the tech is available. Nobody has survived to 2000 by being stupid and attracting unwanted attention.
Some locations may be different though, but they're more situational - a religious group for example who blame technology for the destruction and death.
Another group who are quite happy using all sort of tech might naively equate "radios" with "radiation". All's going nicely with negotiations wrapping up and the PCs decide to play a little music - boom!

[Olefin]

How much of that power is for personal consumption is a big question though. My thoughts are priority would be given to vital industry, food production/processing, the military (again pretty heavily rationed though) and if there's anything left, then the general population might get a trickle for an hour or two.
Both Niagara Falls and the nuclear power plant near Colorado Springs would have more than enough power to spare. And there has to be power for people to be listening to radios - most likely it would be a couple of community radios working on a trickle charger to keep the batteries going - something like Soylent Green where Saul has to ride the bike to keep the batteries charged when the power goes out. We aren’t talking a hundred houses with radios all blaring - probably one at the local gathering hole whatever that is or at the local outdoor market. And one or two others. And you don’t need a lot of power for a radio station - not if it’s low power AM radio. We aren’t talking huge FM high power radio station here - more likely one guy sitting behind a microphone and an old cassette or CD player and a transmitter and not much else

[Legbreaker]

Both Niagara Falls and the nuclear power plant near Colorado Springs would have more than enough power to spare.

We've discussed this in the past on numerous occasions. Generation isn't the problem, it's transmitting the power to where it's needed.

[Raellus]

Quite a few East Bloc youths were fascinated with Western popular music. I was aware of Billy Joel's Soviet tour and a Heavy Metal monsters of rock festival behind the Iron Curtain, but I was not aware of Depeche Mode's influence there (and I'm a fan).

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/what-depeche-modes-seduction-of-eastern-europe-can-teach-us-about-late-capitalism/

Music could be a language of peace. Has anyone ever used music in-game*, as a plot device?

*I have a Latvian ex-Red Army PC who was muscle for a smuggling ring in Riga before the war. As a result, he had access to Western pop music. (his favorite are Iron Maiden and Madonna).

-

[Olefin]

I can see traveling musicians and singers literally "singing" for their supper - think the Postman movie and how he was traveling around and performing Shakespeare at various towns in exchange for food and water. Most likely it would be the same in T2K. Think Jewel, who in real life literally went from place to place singing from her supper before she had her big break

Its actually mentioned in the Survivors Guide to the UK that the entertainment at most pubs was either live music/singing or someone with a record or cassette or other player.

You could also see music being played over a central loudspeaker in a town as well - a la MASH or Shawshank Redemption

[Tegyrius]

Music could be a language of peace. Has anyone ever used music in-game*, as a plot device?

*I have a Latvian ex-Red Army PC who was muscle for a smuggling ring in Riga before the war. As a result, he had access to Western pop music. (his favorite are Iron Maiden and Madonna).

In my character/team concept slush file, I have a second-tier washed-up '80s metal or hair band that was doing a USO tour for the troops when the war went nuclear. Forced to take up arms to survive, they joined the closest American unit. Most of them somehow survived the war. By 2000, they're actually somewhat-competent combatants, but they'd rather treat a trip across Europe as a concert tour than a traditional T2k katabasis.

- C.

[Olefin]

In my character/team concept slush file, I have a second-tier washed-up '80s metal or hair band that was doing a USO tour for the troops when the war went nuclear. Forced to take up arms to survive, they joined the closest American unit. Most of them somehow survived the war. By 2000, they're actually somewhat-competent combatants, but they'd rather treat a trip across Europe as a concert tour than a traditional T2k basis.

- C.

I can imagine that several USO units of various types got cut off by the TDM - especially since it was Thanksgiving and that is when many groups go over for troop morale purposes. Definitely be interesting to go into the local pub and there is a famous singer who every knows who has been reduced to just the local musician in order to survive - think The Postman and Tom Petty for instance - "I know you, you were famous"

[pmulcahy11b]

Now, I don't personally like metal, but I get the idea that it would be most popular with troops in T2K.

[Olefin]

Now, I don't personally like metal, but I get the idea that it would be most popular with troops in T2K.

Iron Maiden - The Trooper

[Raellus]

Iron Maiden has a few songs about war:

The Trooper - Crimean War's "Charge of the Light Brigade"
Aces High- Battle of Britain
Where Eagles Dare- about the film of the same name
Tailgunner- WWII bomber crew
Run to the Hills- the Plains Indian Wars

-

[Olefin]

Iron Maiden has a few songs about war:

The Trooper - Crimean War's "Charge of the Light Brigade"
Aces High- Battle of Britain
Where Eagles Dare- about the film of the same name
Tailgunner- WWII bomber crew
Run to the Hills- the Plains Indian Wars

-

Ok now that is a good soundtrack for T2K

[pmulcahy11b]

If you hook wires from a headphone cable plugged into a cassette, CD player, or even a boombox. and hook them into the #1 radio rack, anyone who's wearing a CVC helmet on the vehicle can hear the music, but you still hear outside radio transmission, and make transmissions without the receiving party hearing your music.

I don't fully remember how to it, but I would call it an AVG: Electronics task,

[Spartan-117]

So this is not exactly music IN T2K, but if you are looking for some music FOR T2K, I can recommend Lao Che's Warsaw Uprising concept album. We saw them open for the Cranberries in Lublin and they were excellent.

The energy and Polish really gets you in the mood. Czerniaków has a nice eerie feel to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powstanie_Warszawskie_(album))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxTTONxopaM&list=PLWEGr0M_AkDw9AI79gmXZ-djOBl8fTSub&index=2

[Sith]

When I was in the Army in the early 90s acapella was a pretty big thing, at least in the Combat Engineers. It was not uncommon for “concerts” to break out on the sidewalk during breaks and at night. A lot of us would just stop and listen for a good long while. I could easily see that continuing into the Twilight war as I stopped for a few songs in Germany as well.

As a side note, I never saw it again after I became a tanker. It may have been a cultural thing among the Combat Engineers at the time.

Apart from that, I always used acoustic guitars for music in my PA games. The inspiration for that was South American cultures in the late 1800s. In many places the ability to play a guitar well was a symbol of manhood. People would commonly bring their guitars with them to all manner of gatherings. Additionally, impromptu competitions would “break out” to solve disputes or just because.

If a character knew how to play a guitar, they could earn gratitude from villagers who are stressed and just want to relax and listen to music. Just the ability to entertain can earn cheaper fares and a good meal in a land where music is in short supply.

[Raellus]

When I was in the Army in the early 90s acapella was a pretty big thing, at least in the Combat Engineers.

I suspect it would be in most units in wartime. Songs and singing seem to feature in a lot of books, novels, and films* about war. IIRC, a lot of British regiments had their own pet songs (official or unofficial), up through WW2 at least. The Germans had their marching songs. I imagine singing during wartime is both a manifestation of comradery and a way to escape from war back to a previous civilian existence during peacetime. Since that desire is universal, music will always be an outlet for soldiers during war.

*In film, off the top of my head:
Charlie Sheen & the heads sing Tracks of My Tears in Platoon
Joker and Animal Mother lead a chorus of Micky Mouse Club theme song in Full Metal Jacket
A lone Tommy sings I Am A Poor Wayfaring Stranger in 1917
James Francis Ryan and the Rangers listen to Edith Piaf songs in Saving Private Ryan

And pretty much most of Good Morning Vietnam is about how important music was to American troops during the Vietnam War.

[Rainbow Six]

*In film, off the top of my head:
Charlie Sheen & the heads sing Tracks of My Tears in Platoon
Joker and Animal Mother lead a chorus of Micky Mouse Club theme song in Full Metal Jacket
A lone Tommy sings I Am A Poor Wayfaring Stranger in 1917
James Francis Ryan and the Rangers listen to Edith Piaf songs in Saving Private Ryan

And pretty much most of Good Morning Vietnam is about how important music was to American troops during the Vietnam War.

The scene in Zulu where the Welshmen sing 'Men of Harlech' is iconic. IIRC there's also a reference to the Regimental choir earlier on in the film, something about how Michael Caine's character allows it even although he's an Englishman, words to that effect.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Didn't Britney Spears turn up in someone's campaign?

[pmulcahy11b]

Didn't Britney Spears turn up in someone's campaign?

Britney Spears is a terrible singer but an excellent dancer. Just my opinion.

[wolffhound79]

Has anyone tried Tegyrius encounter generator? Under merchants I've gotten a few great ones, travelling dancers, a pirate radio set up, a k pop band , a rock band. Its kinda fun having players roll into a town and have them make a roll to see if they recognize a band they grew up with.

"Oh my god, is that helix? Man they're still alive? I got to get them to autograph my helmet!!"

[rcaf_777]

A little after TW 2000 but there are Swedish heavy metal band

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaton_(band)

[Legbreaker]

I'm thinking what bands exist would need to be more acoustic in nature such as: https://youtu.be/Li58voy6xXM

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I heartily recommend you guys comb through "Techmoan", a youtube channel. He goes through a great many obscure audio formats, sometimes fixes playback decks etc.

For example, it was through him that I learned in the 1950s there was a flexible audio format, that, while it appeared to be a tape cartridge, it had grooves on it, and played like a record, with a stylus.

That's just one of the amazing facts I learned from his channel.

But the point of it is, where there's a will to record audio, there's a way. Magnetic tape playback and recording goes all the way back to the early 1900s, and gramophone and wax cylinder recording recordings to the late 1800s.

The audio quality of these early formats is obviously poor, but still, when the choice is some lifting of spirits or none, you'll surely see people taking "some".

Plus, earlier "boom boxes" relied less on fragile electronics and more on robust components. Someone with moderate hobbyist skills could get a reel-to-reel playback working again. Or even car speakers, hooked up to a car radio, which may have been shielded by the metal body of the car, from EMP damage. Some sort of ad hoc battery system (salvaged from a car, for example) and a little bit of determination and there's your music!

[Olefin]

Also keep in mind guys that EMP wont damage a car battery at all - zip - or the alternator - what it will fry is the electronic ignitions and computers that run the emission system - but if you have a car built pre-1978 EMP will basically do nothing to it at all - i.e. that old 1966 Impala you have will run just fine and start up just fine - and so would the old fashioned 8 Track player or cassette player thats in it or the old fashioned car radio - not today's heavily electronic radios - so if you are looking for a traveling "boom box" for a game look for an older car

FYI for those looking for EMP effects on automobiles and trucks interesting discussion that includes a study on cars and trucks made from 1986 thru 2002 that said that if the cars and trucks were turned off there was NO effect on them from EMP. They had to be on at the time for their to be any damage at all and in the case of trucks even then the damage was minimal.

https://forums.thesurvivalpodcast.com//index.php?topic=12485.0

http://www.empcommission.org/reports.php

[puška]

Iron Maiden has a few songs about war:


-

For related songs played in a war, there's the 2017 documentary chronicles Bruce Dickinson/Skunkworks' concert in Sarajevo during the Siege.

I missed the event, but my dear friend Saša was there.

[Raellus]

Free League has released a v4 soundtrack for Kickstarter backers. Check your email!

-