Morrow Project Facebook Group

[nuke11]

On The Morrow Project Facebook page, in the community section https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheMorrowProject/community/?ref=page_internal

John Miller asks what seems to be a simple question about the M1 Timer Detonator in the rulebook.

I am not on Facebook so I cannot reply to the message directly and maybe John Miller is on this board and might see this response. If anyone wants to post a link to this post, they can.

The weights given for a create of them is off, but the more interesting aspect of this question is what does an M1 Timer Detonator look like and are the details given correct?

From the description given in the 3rd and 4th edition “An adjustable mechanical detonator. The time delay can be set from 10 to 60 seconds and from 1 minute to 10 minutes in 1-minute intervals, and from 1 hour to 48 hours in 10-minute intervals. The detonator will set off any explosive charge.”

Simple enough, so it must have 3 “dials”, so it could be a small box or cylindrical in shape. I am thinking the latter in this case.

Looking at the reference section of the rule books, I have most of these books on hand. Looking thru them there are many different references to “M1 Detonator”, but nothing that is a mechanical timer based, all are either chemical or firing pin type, so no help there.

Expanding the search to other reference material, there are 2 families of mechanical detonators built in the late 40’s and 50’s that are close. There are clockwork detonators created during WWII, but we will not look at those.

Demolition Firing Device Mk. 12 Mod 0/Mk. 13 Mod 0/Mk. 15 Mod 0, 1946-47. The Mk 12 can delay for 5 to 90 seconds, Mk 13 can delay 1 minute to 60 minutes and the Mk 15 can delay for 15 minutes and 11 hours. This is an aluminum cylindrical device (there are images available on line for this).

Demolition Firing Device Mk. 12 Mod 1/Mk. 13 Mod 1/Mk. 15 Mod 1 these are just improved versions of the Mod 0 devices, simpler to set the time delay on the device. This is an aluminum cylindrical device (there are images available on line for this).

From this point forward there is no further reference to a mechanical timer I can find used by the US military. I have looked in field manuals and TM’s from the 60’s, 70’s and 80's on engineering and demolitions, no reference to devices to mechanically delay a detonation.

The next time I find a reference to a time delay-firing device is from 1999 thru 2001. The M147 Time Delay Firing Device. To me this is the most logical device to replace the M1 Timer Detonator. It can delay a detonation from 5 minutes to 30 days.

Whatever the M1 Timer Detonator is, I cannot find a reference to it, but it seems logical that there would be one or 3 versions over the 40 year gap where I can’t find. It might be a Special Forces item thou, with little to no public references.

Now I do see the Kevin Dockery responds to posts on the Facebook page, so maybe he can provide more details as to what this is. He does have access to SF device information the general public does not have.

I’ll continue to search further in my library, as there maybe something in a Jane’s All The Worlds book.

Gary.
http://www.thesupplybunker.net/morrow.htm

[nduffy]

I have never heard of one,,, I have a few SF buddies I can ask as well....Might only exist in gamelandia..

[mmartin798]

The only reference to an M1 Detonator that has multiple timings I can find in TM-43-0001-38, Army Data Sheets for Demolition Materials, is nothing like what is described in the rules. Here is a picture. It comes in various timings that are preset by concentrations of chemicals in the glass ampule.

[mmartin798]

I found some information that makes me think the M1 timed detonator listed in the rules was the best guess as to what the device was like. I found many references to the M147 Time Delay Firing Device (TDFD) and it seems that it is the device called the M1 in the rules. I even found palleting documents for the M147 TDFD dated 1992.

There are some differences though. The M147 TDFD weighs 198g, the time delay can be set from five minutes to 30 days in one-minute increments. The reason I think this is the detonator is from the section of the description that I made bold:

The Time Delay Firing Device (TDFD) is employed by Special Forces and other units to place charges on high value targets with set times that will allow safe departure for the area and precision coordination of timed missions. The TDFD is a small, lightweight, electronic timing device with a flash explosive output for initiating a user attached M7 blasting cap. It is inherently more safe, reliable, and accurate than the family of six M1 Chemical pencils that it replaces. It is capable of being set in the field for time delays ranging from five minutes to 30 days in one minute increments.

You can see additional info at this site: https://www.govcon.com/doc/m147-time-delay-firing-device-0001

[nuke11]

I was thinking this as well.

But it still stands to reason there has be another device that pre-dates the M147. It is a nearly a 40 year gap between the DFD Mk12/13/15 and the M147.

As you note it does say it replaces the chemical pens, so maybe they don't use a mechanical timer again until around 2000.

Can you provide a link to the pelleting doc?

[mmartin798]

Can you provide a link to the pelleting doc?

Here is the link. I had some difficulty getting to the page when I just tried it, so if you can't see it, I did manage to download a PDF I can share if needed.

https://www.dau.edu/cop/ammo/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/cop/ammo/DAU%20Sponsored%20Documents/Unit%2019-48-4116%2095N-20PA1002%20-%20Revision%202.pdf&action=default

[nuke11]

Here is the link. I had some difficulty getting to the page when I just tried it, so if you can't see it, I did manage to download a PDF I can share if needed.

https://www.dau.edu/cop/ammo/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/cop/ammo/DAU%20Sponsored%20Documents/Unit%2019-48-4116%2095N-20PA1002%20-%20Revision%202.pdf&action=default

Worked for me.

Thank you.

[mmartin798]

If anyone is wondering if the battery sealed inside an M147 would still have the power to operate after 150 years, the answer is probably. The electrolyte is not in the battery cell until you start preparing the M147 for use. One of the first steps turns a control knob that puts the electrolyte into the cell. The real question is would you be able to get the full 30-day delay once it is that old.

[nuke11]

To summarize the general consensus of this discussion with https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=6036. The M1 Timer Detonator is most likely an general guess as to what the M147 TDFD would be without hard data available to the game designer(s).

[Slar]

That was my question. Been bugging me for a while. That M147 looks good. For my own purposes, I'm just going to assume, for now, that Morrow Industries developed a similar device, the M1, that works as described in the game book.

Saves me a lot of headache.

[nuke11]

Here is another interesting device in the same family as the M147, the M153 Time-Delay Sympathetic Detonator (TY-SYDET). It was given an NSN in 2009, it looks very similar to the M147.

Here is the only information I could find so far.

The M153 TD-SYDET provides the capability of time delay functioning of explosive charges or sympathetic simultaneous detonation of numerous explosive charges/munitions in the same general vicinity through the command and control of only one charge, eliminating the necessity of physically linking them together.

There is a TM for it, but it doesn't seem to be available in the internet.