OPSEC (Split from Mission)

[Eddie]

Split from Mission. That thread should really be kept for well wishes.


Due too opsec I cannot say more.

Why not? You've just spilled quite a bit of useful information.

You just told us you're deploying at the end of the month. In addition, you told us that 3rd BN, 3rd Marines are deploying at the end of the month as well.

You told us that you're going to be operating all over the country, ergo, 3rd BN, 3rd Marines will not be landowners, but will be moving every few weeks, which is kind of unusual at this stage of the game in Iraq.

And you told us that you, and ergo 3rd BN, 3rd Marines, do not have an anticipated return date. Which is clearly untrue as even SOF units have anticipated return dates on their orders.

As a 16 year veteran, that should put you somewhere in the E-6 to E-7 range for the Corps, yes? At least? At that point, you should know better than to say anything other than "I'm getting ready to deploy in the near future..."

That said, good luck and be safe.

[Targan]

Oh great, this should be interesting...

[kato13]

Oh great, this should be interesting...

I'm hoping since both participants seem to be cut from a similar cloth, if something happens it will be like a scuffle between brothers.

Guys keep it civil and go PM if you can't please.

[Eddie]

I'm hoping since both participants seem to be cut from a similar cloth, is something happens it will be like a scuffle between brothers.

Guys keep it civil and go PM if you can't please.

No issues here. That was a professional criticism that is given to the lowest Privates in the Army when we instruct them on what they can and can't tell their loved ones about operations we're conducting or planning.

I'm trying to help him out since being in the S-3 Shop of his battalion he's obviously got a security clearance and if his S-2 Shop saw that, he could get in hot water. I've seen missions get scrubbed because Joe decided to have an "I'm going away to war" party and wife A told wife B whose husband works with so-and-so.

[Targan]

PM would be the best way to go with something like that. IMO.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Duck and cover!

[kato13]

I understand completely what you were saying. I just wanted to allude to the fact that you are coming from a good place and have the appropriate knowledge.

Threads exist in a vacuum and if someone was unaware of your service history (since that is not in this thread), they might not take it the way you intended regardless of the fact that it might be good and proper advice.

[Eddie]

Duck and cover!

Why?

[headquarters]

Why?

you mean to say that you dont pick up on the LAW vs Twilight 2013 situation at all??


?

?

Well then , lets just say that law can be pretty harsh/come across in a certain way in some of his replies -and I would say you commenting on his breach of opsec is along the same line of communicating .

I prefer friendly - or at least neutral tone in the correspondance -but hey - thats just me.

Maybe kato needs to make another seperate thread so that discussion between the two of you can be contained.

yes-I predict that there will be a word-fight .

[TiggerCCW UK]

Why?
I've been on the receiving end of a Law outburst due to a misunderstanding (not worth going over again as its water under the bridge) and its not pretty. Forthright and honest would be one way of describing him.

On a personal note this is a great forum that is mostly free of the flame wars, personal attacks and general unpleasantness that plagues a lot of similar forums due to interweb anonymity and consequence free posting. Hopefully we can keep it that way here. Kato runs a good site that fulfills a lot of my gaming needs until I win the lottery and establish the Twilight Cafe and I'd hate to see it get bogged down in the sort of arseyness that hits so many forums. Basically all I'm saying is lets keep it civil folks, please.

[Eddie]

you mean to say that you dont pick up on the LAW vs Twilight 2013 situation at all??


?

?

Well then , lets just say that law can be pretty harsh/come across in a certain way in some of his replies -and I would say you commenting on his breach of opsec is along the same line of communicating .

I prefer friendly - or at least neutral tone in the correspondance -but hey - thats just me.

Maybe kato needs to make another seperate thread so that discussion between the two of you can be contained.

yes-I predict that there will be a word-fight .

Yes. I am aware of it. Even in the six hours I've been registered here.

There shouldn't be any issue. What he said breached OPSEC. Pure and simple. I gave concrete examples of the information that I pulled from his breach of it. That's not a lot of information for you or me, but combined with the website link he posted, I now know enough to get his full name, his commander's name, and a plethora of other information if I wanted to.

He shouldn't get butt-hurt about it, and if you do, Law, then you know Schofield is about 20 miles from K-Bay, come see me and we'll talk it out. Otherwise, take it for what it was, an azimuth check on a subject that can be a slippery slope.

Now, the one issue I do have with it, is Law's comment about not having a return date. That's just silly. Every unit that deploys has a date that the deployment will end. It's called a timeline. Now that might get changed, for mine, I redeployed 17 days earlier than what was on my orders, and that may be what he meant by his comment, but to an uninitiated person, that carries a much more dire implication than a BN Staff guy is going to encounter.

[kato13]

Maybe kato needs to make another seperate thread so that discussion between the two of you can be contained.


I am considering giving them their own sub forum ;) . Hopefully that will keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

[headquarters]

Ok - I see where you coming from .

I guess wishing Law the best of luck on his deployment is in order too.


Yes. I am aware of it. Even in the six hours I've been registered here.

There shouldn't be any issue. What he said breached OPSEC. Pure and simple. I gave concrete examples of the information that I pulled from his breach of it. That's not a lot of information for you or me, but combined with the website link he posted, I now know enough to get his full name, his commander's name, and a plethora of other information if I wanted to.

He shouldn't get butt-hurt about it, and if you do, Law, then you know Schofield is about 20 miles from K-Bay, come see me and we'll talk it out. Otherwise, take it for what it was, an azimuth check on a subject that can be a slippery slope.

Now, the one issue I do have with it, is Law's comment about not having a return date. That's just silly. Every unit that deploys has a date that the deployment will end. It's called a timeline. Now that might get changed, for mine, I redeployed 17 days earlier than what was on my orders, and that may be what he meant by his comment, but to an uninitiated person, that carries a much more dire implication than a BN Staff guy is going to encounter.

[headquarters]

I am considering giving them their own sub forum ;) . Hopefully that will keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

haha

[General Pain]

Well Law didn't wan't to have anything more to do with me after what I thought was a funny remarc in the old RPGHOST forum. I'm not going to repeat it, cuz some people would probably laugh others get angry....On the other hand I have had no usefull input from him anyway so we will probably stay like that....

But I hope he gets out alive so I can keep reading his amusing post at this fantastic forum.

"Stay Clean Law and Stay Safe"

GP

[LAW0306]

Well Eddie was it a violation? Or did I say things that are open source and backed it up with a site too see open source info? A site too keep my Friends/Family here informed on what I will be doing at a non-secure level(The same site thats here on the net to provide people with information).And yes PM and I will come and see you anytime .This was a post among friends too tell them were I would be for the next few months. Please PM me I would love too drive up there. I'm open any day. Monday I have too come see your brigade anyway so we can have lunch say the O-club at noon?


No need to Duck and cover. I made a promise to Kato too be kind to all here.This was after the flame war here with the 2013 guys. Also He is another Officer and we will talk it out among men.

[kato13]

Thanks Law. Sorry that I prepared myself for the worst possible outcome. I hope you all know that I only do what I think is best for this board.

[jester]

He beat me to it. Most units now have websites that have a plethora of info much more than what was posted here.

Damn, that's harsh being banished to an army base! You must have done something really bad :D

[Eddie]

Well Eddie was it a violation?

Was it a violation of OPSEC? Come on man, you're a Warrant Officer, of course it's a violation of OPSEC. It's who, when, where, and what.

Or did I say things that are open source and backed it up with a site too see open source info?

That's irrelevant. Last I checked, you are a BN Gunner. Which means you oversee fire support requests and push them from lower units to higher units as I don't think you have organic fire support assets other than mortars. Though I could be wrong about that, I admit.

OT: In Iraq, it takes a Division Commander's approval to fire anything other than ILLUM right now. Most FSOs/FSNCOs/Gunners are being utilized as an Effects Cell, meaning they're the ones paying out projects and microgrants. Out where the Marines are, no different to my knowledge. My Brigade shared a border with them, so I know the area somewhat of where you're going most likely. I hope you like chai.

Now that being said, I don't see your BN's or Regiment's deployment information anywhere. I've never heard of that being "open source." In fact, OPORDs, timelines, destinations, etc. are always SECRET classification or higher. That's why all officers have a SECRET clearance. At the very worst, it rates an FOUO rating, which this site definitely is not.

Is the information easy to deduce? If you're familiar with military deployments, then yeah, you can pretty much figure out that timeline. But it's an educated guess in that instance. You took that guess and confirmed it.

After all, "would you give the enemy a loaded firearm?" Sorry, a little S-2 paranoia humor. We have a screensaver on all Army computers that has a little graphic of that crap.

A site too keep my Friends/Family here informed on what I will be doing at a non-secure level(The same site thats here on the net to provide people with information).

You could just as easily have sent them PMs, called them, or sent them emails.
And yes PM and I will come and see you anytime .

We already got that settled.

This was a post among friends too tell them were I would be for the next few months.

I have no issue with that. What I have issue with is the forum in which you did it. In a public internet forum, you just confirmed a major unit's movement and big picture plan. Kato's right, we don't need to get in a big trolling war/flaming war on his boards. What you did was wrong at best, reckless at worst.

Is the information available other places? Probably. But you're not an S-2 officer and you're not a unit commander, so you don't have the authority to release or confirm information to the public. Yeah, I just sat through the OPSEC briefing again yesterday morning when I was at work at 0715 on a frikkin' Saturday morning. Hell, I operated in Iraq for 15 months, had an estimated return date on my orders, but still couldn't tell my wife that, "Yeah, I'm done at the JSS and have moved back to Taji now."

Also He is another Officer and we will talk it out among men.

I'm glad you have that sentiment. Let me draw your attention to your opening sentence then.

"Well Eddie was it a violation?"

That sentence is very poor for the intention of this last quoted section. It instantly put me on the defensive by having to publicly defend my earlier statement and very bluntly say, "Yeah, you were wrong for posting it."

Now, then, I've not just said that in a vacuum, an empty accusation, as it were. I gave examples of what information people can draw from it, I explained why it's wrong, and I explained why I'm being blunt about it.

Do I really care? No. I don't. I'm not in the Marines and I'm not deploying with your unit. You want to give out information? Cool, man. You want to make yourself sound bad to your buddies? Cool, man.

If you still have issues, like you said, we can agree to disagree for now and talk them over at lunch.