Some T2K artwork i've done...

[natehale1971]

This is stuff from the artwork i had done for the Twiglight 2013 people, but they decided at the last minute that it just wasn't what they wanted.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/File0017.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/File0018.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/17-Watch-on-the-River.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/20-A_Soldiers_Tribute.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/19-Soldiers_Broken_Heart.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/03-Streetfighter.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/04-Firefighter.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/02-Armed_housewife.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/05-Construction_Worker.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/10-Lawyer.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/14-LTG_Robinson.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Military-004-SML-02.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Sneak-Past-01.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Military-005-SML-02.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/01-Farmer.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/11-Currupt_Politico.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/16-German_Infantry.jpg

[kato13]

Given I thought that the drawings were one of the weakest parts of the T2k13 rulebook (sorry smokewolf), maybe I will print these out and insert them in there ;) .

As I said before AMAZING.

[pmulcahy11b]

I really love the one where the soldier is crying over the baby. Very touching.

[natehale1971]

I really love the one where the soldier is crying over the baby. Very touching.

thank you.. that was one of the reasons they said they didn't want them. that it was to obviously drawn from the inspiration of the famous photo. but it really was something that shows how us grunts feel when we find chidlren who have been hurt or killed. :(

[kato13]

that was one of the reasons they said they didn't want them. that it was to obviously drawn from the inspiration of the famous photo.

I recognized the source as well, but it is a shame that your interpretation would have probably drawn scrutiny from a lawyer. Funny I remember seeing a few pics in the original T2k where I later saw the photo that inspired them. Guess it is more of an issue now.

[Raellus]

Nice work NH'71. You're a talented guy. It's 93 Studios' loss.

I too have recognized the source photos for a lot of the original T2K artwork over the years. The guy on the cover of the v1 core set with the map case on his chest, for example. A lot of it was based on photos of grunts in Vietnam. It's funny how the artist tried to turn the old WWII era steel pot helmet into the more modern Kelvar "Fritz". He doesn't quite get it right.

[Legbreaker]

The face of the second last one looks rather familiar - Not sure from where exactly, but my thoughts spring to Satellite Down for some reason....

Great work, there's some rare talent behind them!

[pmulcahy11b]

thank you.. that was one of the reasons they said they didn't want them. that it was to obviously drawn from the inspiration of the famous photo. but it really was something that shows how us grunts feel when we find chidlren who have been hurt or killed. :(

I remember one World War 2 photo, can't remember where I saw it, but it showed a British soldier running for cover...with a kid under one arm and a dog under the other. That was a picture that impressed me for its humanitarian aspect.

[natehale1971]

The face of the second last one looks rather familiar - Not sure from where exactly, but my thoughts spring to Satellite Down for some reason....

Great work, there's some rare talent behind them!

I had based her apperance on Emma...

[Legbreaker]

I had based her apperance on Emma...
I meant the second last...

[natehale1971]

I meant the second last...

Oh sorry... tha's a currupt politician that i based on a photo of George Clooney that i had found.

[natehale1971]

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Captured2004-2-1500015.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Captured2004-2-2500004.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Captured2004-2-2500003.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/09-Sheriff.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Military-001-SML-02.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Military-002-SML-02.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/Military-003-SML-02.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Modern%20Military%20Art/US-Soldier-01.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Commissioned%20Art/dirt-bike-01.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Commissioned%20Art/APC-001.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Commissioned%20Art/Town-01.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Commissioned%20Art/High-School-01.jpg


http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/rspake2064_1999/Artwork/Family_Portrait.jpg

[pmulcahy11b]

That motocross rider reminds me of a character one of the few female T2K players I've known had. Her character was a Japanese motocross rider who was in a competition in Poland when the war broke out. She made a very good scout.

[Raellus]

Once again, nice work. I recognize the Soviet sniper one from a Ron Volstad plate in one of the Osprey Elite books. Volstad and Angus McBride are two of my favorite military illustrators.

I was just browsing through Armies of the Night and recognized scenes based on stills from the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Raw Deal, plus various B-movies I can't name. There's also one of a street gang leader based on a pic of Rob Halford of Judas Priest!

[kato13]

I was just browsing through Armies of the Night and recognized scenes based on stills from the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Raw Deal

ROFL. I totally remember the Raw Deal one now.

Excellent work on the second set Nate. Not only have you reignited some Morrow Ideas in my head you may also get me to pick up my Rapidograph pens again.

[natehale1971]

Once again, nice work. I recognize the Soviet sniper one from a Ron Volstad plate in one of the Osprey Elite books. Volstad and Angus McBride are two of my favorite military illustrators.

I was just browsing through Armies of the Night and recognized scenes based on stills from the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Raw Deal, plus various B-movies I can't name. There's also one of a street gang leader based on a pic of Rob Halford of Judas Priest!

That is one of my favorites, and i used the sniper one for something from when i first started playing T2k... i have about ten colorized versions of it that i've done. each one trying to experiment with different colorations. namely for my work on the 2300AD RPG stuff i had been exprimenting with. i just wish i cold find them so i can scan them.

[Targan]

Great Work Nate. I really like the armoured up truck, reminded me of our gun truck thread from a while back.

Glad to hear you are into T2300 as well.

[headquarters]

I would like to see more .

[Rainbow Six]

Absolutely awesome work.

Very well done indeed...those deserve to be in print somewhere.

[General Pain]

very very good

[Fusilier]

Awesome pics. Its too bad 2013 didn't accept it. From the looks of their work, they seem to have needed all the (quality) help they could get.

Fine stuff.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Fantastic work Nate! Those should definitely be in print somewhere - maybe they can be used by someone on here for their new expansions?

[bigehauser]

Once again, nice work. I recognize the Soviet sniper one from a Ron Volstad plate in one of the Osprey Elite books. Volstad and Angus McBride are two of my favorite military illustrators.
I thought I recognized those.

Pictures are great, but your ACUs are slightly off in a few of those...missing the IR chit covers, and three cell writing utensil pouch on the left forearm sleeve. Also, the cuffs and their velcro should be present. The rank insignia on the chest, unless it's a two star general or more, needs to be a two by two inch square. Note that with the first pic, the bottom part of the ACU coat blouses out more, following the cut of the male Vee shape of the torso that melds into his pelvic area. Finally, a very slight, but noticeable line goes down the center of the velcro shoulder sleeve insignia areas on either shoulder.

Sorry if I offend, I just have a very intimate relationship with the Army Combat Uniform.

[pmulcahy11b]

I missed out on the ACUs -- when I retired, we were still wearing the BDUs and DCUs.

[chico20854]

I missed out on the ACUs -- when I retired, we were still wearing the BDUs and DCUs.

To paraphrase Office Space "Well, I wouldn't say I missed the ACUs". The last major task I did as a supply sergeant - the day before I got out - was issue out the black berets to the whole unit. So I was on the tail end of the BDU era. But my friends that are still in are not fans of the ACU, for a host of reasons from fit, Army mickey-mouse about appearance, to the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the camouflage pattern.

[smokewolf]

Since it was brought up...for the record, I loved the work.

Unfortunately, many of the drawings submitted were images from famous people, recognizable imagery or scenes from movies/TV and thus derivative work. The inclusion of it would have been a copyright violation of the original work.

[Raellus]

Unfortunately, many of the drawings submitted were images from famous people, recognizable imagery or scenes from movies/TV and thus derivative work. The inclusion of it would have been a copyright violation of the original work.

I understand your position. It makes perfect sense in our letiginous society. Some of the work, though, appears original or based on open source/non-copyrighted images. Now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering how GDW got away with some of the artwork they included (see my previous post) in the v1 and v2 materials- some of it is ripped right off of movie posters.

[kato13]

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm wondering how GDW got away with some of the artwork they included (see my previous post) in the v1 and v2 materials- some of it is ripped right off of movie posters.

Well GDW's death was partially due to lawsuits regarding copyright infringements. Admittedly it was TSR vs Gygax and not images but you can't be too careful nowadays.

[smokewolf]

I'm wondering how GDW got away with some of the artwork they included (see my previous post) in the v1 and v2 materials- some of it is ripped right off of movie posters.

You can do derivative works you just need permission from the copyright holder. Not sure about GDW or the artists they used, but could be they had permission.

[kato13]

Here is the most glaring example from the Armies of the Night module we discussed before.

http://games.juhlin.com/images/forum/raw_deal.jpghttp://games.juhlin.com/images/forum/raw_deal1.jpg


Personally I cannot imagine a movie production house (nor Schwarzenegger for that matter) giving permission to use an image from a poster for a movie released in the same year the module was published. It was probably just a less litigious time. A lot has changed in the past 25 years.

edit (from 1980 to today the number of Lawyers in the US has increased from ~400,000 to ~1,200,000)

[Targan]

A lot has changed in the past 25 years.
My hairline for instance :(

[Legbreaker]

Pictures are great, but your ACUs are slightly off in a few of those...missing the IR chit covers, and three cell writing utensil pouch on the left forearm sleeve. Also, the cuffs and their velcro should be present. The rank insignia on the chest, unless it's a two star general or more, needs to be a two by two inch square. Note that with the first pic, the bottom part of the ACU coat blouses out more, following the cut of the male Vee shape of the torso that melds into his pelvic area. Finally, a very slight, but noticeable line goes down the center of the velcro shoulder sleeve insignia areas on either shoulder.

Sorry if I offend, I just have a very intimate relationship with the Army Combat Uniform.
Something to keep in mind is the timeframe. I know next to nothing about US uniforms, but I think it bears mentioning that it's extremely unlikely for uniforms (and every other piece of equipment for that matter) developed and issued after late 1997 to appear in T2K.
In fact, I would think that once the nukes started to fly, uniforms and equipment would go backwards as manufacturing ability disappeared and old stocks would need to be drawn upon.

[Targan]

... I think it bears mentioning that it's extremely unlikely for uniforms (and every other piece of equipment for that matter) developed and issued after late 1997 to appear in T2K.
In fact, I would think that once the nukes started to fly, uniforms and equipment would go backwards as manufacturing ability disappeared and old stocks would need to be drawn upon.
Agreed. This brings us back to previous discussions we have had on this forum and its predecessor about differences between the T2K timeline and the RL timeline in terms of some military weapons and equipment having faster or slower development tracks in the T2K timeline because the Cold War didn't end. There is obviously a limit however. Plus or minus five years or less in my opinion.

[TiggerCCW UK]

But the guy in the drawing has long hair!!! Surely thats not the same image?:confused: :p

[bigehauser]

Dude, whatever...if you are gonna draw the ACUs...draw em right...these are cheap as hell to manufacture already...so....yeahhhh. LOL

[kato13]

Regarding the ACUs I agree with Targan. In a t2k game the continued cold war can change the changed in equipment or doctrine dramatically. I have always wondered if NATO would have pushed the one fuel standard if the cold war continued as it did lead to logistical hiccups which might have degraded efficiency.

Another thing to note is that these drawings were for T2k13 so an ACU or something close to it would be appropriate depending on when the time line changes.

[natehale1971]

I thought I recognized those.

Pictures are great, but your ACUs are slightly off in a few of those...missing the IR chit covers, and three cell writing utensil pouch on the left forearm sleeve. Also, the cuffs and their velcro should be present. The rank insignia on the chest, unless it's a two star general or more, needs to be a two by two inch square. Note that with the first pic, the bottom part of the ACU coat blouses out more, following the cut of the male Vee shape of the torso that melds into his pelvic area. Finally, a very slight, but noticeable line goes down the center of the velcro shoulder sleeve insignia areas on either shoulder.

Sorry if I offend, I just have a very intimate relationship with the Army Combat Uniform.

It's okay... i have only gotten to use reference photos that i had been able to get my hands on. i'm still looking for more reference photos to make the pictures as accurate as possible as i get to do them... but since i've not drawn anything since December 2008... it's kind of mute point. :(

i'm sorry for the delay in the responses... but i'm in the UK visiting the boys. having to deal with emma and her family, not allowing me to be alone with my sons... making me feel as if i've walked into a lion's den here.

[natehale1971]

Since it was brought up...for the record, I loved the work.

Unfortunately, many of the drawings submitted were images from famous people, recognizable imagery or scenes from movies/TV and thus derivative work. The inclusion of it would have been a copyright violation of the original work.

I admit that it wasn't until after you had turned them down that i discovered that the doctor and child looked like the character Dr. Greene from ER. i'm not upset that the artwork didn't get used, that was my 'wife' who got upset and used it at any and every opurtunity to hurt me. And still does, and this is after i've aggreed to give her the divorce she wants. go figure.

[natehale1971]

In my campaign, i had National Guard units back in the US using Vietnam-era (and older) surplus uniforms and other personal equipment. Heck, my MP campaign the Snake-Eater teams had caches full of had uniforms, weapons and equipment that was drawn from stocks as far back as early-WW2 (M1941 field uniforms for example). Normally these where intended to be issued to locally raised and trained militias... but these are US Army Special Forces green berets, so they would be wearing the same thing, using the same gear (possibly with their more modern weapons if they so chose)... One of the Snake-Eater teams had a major stockpile of WW2 weapons, uniforms, equipment, vehicle and gear... The cache had originally been set up by FEMA, using the old stockpiles that hadn't ben sold off to surplus or destroyed post-ww2 (all those M1 SMGs, M1911A1 pistols, M1 carbines, ect...).

My T2k campaign also had USAF personnel turned into field units equipped with guntrucks to police and patrol rear-guard areas since they didn't really have aircraft to keep in the air anymore.

Oh... and they also took old parachutes and turned them into hot-air ballon like weather ballons that where used to replace spy and communications satelites.

[kato13]

i'm sorry for the delay in the responses... but i'm in the UK visiting the boys. having to deal with emma and her family, not allowing me to be alone with my sons... making me feel as if i've walked into a lion's den here.

No need to apologize. Good luck with your visit. Spend as much time as you can with them, we will still be here.

[kcdusk]

A picture i took last weekend (the B&W one). Fits the theme of own artwork. Thread hijack for my photos ...

[TiggerCCW UK]

Nice pics KC.

[Mohoender]

I really love the one where the soldier is crying over the baby. Very touching.

I can't add anything, it says it all.:o

[natehale1971]

I can't add anything, it says it all.:o

I have been crying alot lately. I miss my boys so damn much. I've been taking extra meds to make me stay asleep. i know that it isn't healthy. but i hurt so damn much that i have to find a way to get through the day without breaking down into tears. it's part of the reason i wanted to set up the play-by-post game here. hoping that would take up as much of the time and keep my mind off my boys. and how much i hurt and ache to be holding them.

i dont know what to do anymore. i can't find a way to get through the days. just sitting here, watching tv or just looking at the boys pictures, sitting in their bedroom clutching their toys. its killing me, and there isnt anything i can do. i keep finding the little notes and letters she left, saying how much she loved me. and how she would never leave me, that we would be together forever and ever. how she trusted me to be faithful, but was so worried and frightened that someone would steal me away from her.

but now this... she accused me of needing someone so bad, but i've survived so many physical injuries all by myself. i only needed her and the boys. i wish that she would have let me die. told them to take me off the life support machines, she knew i didn't want to be on a machine.

[Targan]

Hang in there Nate. Until late last year I didn't give a damn whether I lived or died. I've suffered from pretty severe depression for 20 years. You can rise above. We can all tell you've been strong before, you CAN be strong again.

Remember, you are not alone.

[kato13]

Nate I think depression comes with Genius. It sucks but it seems to match with evidence I have seen. You are immensely talented and the whole world sees it but you may not right now.

There is something in the genius mind that while it can hold on to information and produce wonderful works of art, that also makes it harder to let go of pain. The pain can be enveloping I know that. The pain can cripple you mentally and physically. I hate the fact that my mind can recall with perfect clarity every mistake I have made in my life. But this mind that tortures me so often can also produce wonderful and amazing things.

I think you are a kindred spirit to me and many others here. Many of us have been in a similar place. The hand you have been dealt right now is not one I would wish on anyone, but you are not alone, and there are those of us who care about and really respect you and your talents. Hang in there man and we will be here to listen and help if we can.

[natehale1971]

i just wish that i can stop hurting. i've tried to stop loving Emma. but i can't. i really can't. i might not like her much, but i still love her. especially when i find pictures and letters she wrote me, saying she would never leave. that she wanted us to be happy together. that she loved me for now and forever. i dont know what to do i really dont. i hate being here alone surrounded by all of these things. i sit in the boys room holding the stuffed animals that they didn't take to the UK, i love her so damn much. i dont know what to do. i just want to stop thinking. she promised she wouldn't do this to me. she swore to God she would never do this. but she did.

[kato13]

You can't turn off love. The only way to get rid of it is by passing through pain. I have had many nights where I work and work and work keeping my brain full so I can keep the pain on the very edges of my brain. I often work until I am so tired I can fall asleep without thinking. I hope we can help you find a way to cope until the pain subsides. It will get better.

[natehale1971]

You can't turn off love. The only way to get rid of it is by passing through pain. I have had many nights where I work and work and work keeping my brain full so I can keep the pain on the very edges of my brain. I often work until I am so tired I can fall asleep without thinking. I hope we can help you find a way to cope until the pain subsides. It will get better.

I hope you are right. i really do. i still love her,and just dont understand how she can stop loving me. when she said that she never loved me, that she only married me out of pity.that really hurt.

[kato13]

I hope you are right. i really do. i still love her,and just dont understand how she can stop loving me. when she said that she never loved me, that she only married me out of pity.that really hurt.

She was lying or trying to convince herself that was the truth. Women say things they don't mean all the time. I'm not saying men don't as well, but women really know how to twist the dagger with words.

[natehale1971]

She was lying or trying to convince herself that was the truth. Women say things they don't mean all the time. I'm not saying men don't as well, but women really know how to twist the dagger with words.

i guess so.. i just, dont understand all this. i just miss my boys so damn bad. this has been killing me. and when i ask her to put herself in my shoes, she says no, that she'll never do that.

[kato13]

i guess so.. i just, dont understand all this. i just miss my boys so damn bad. this has been killing me. and when i ask her to put herself in my shoes, she says no, that she'll never do that.

While not defending her, I think I do understand what she is doing. (Know thy enemy). She is trying to push you as far away as possible so she can run away from what she has done. I think she is hoping for "out of sight out of mind". She also has to justify to herself keeping your boys away from you. It is totally not fair to you and totally selfish but it has a logic (twisted as it might be).

While you are going to be away from you boys for a while you will always be their father. As has been said before the more she tries to keep them from you the more they will want to be with you.

[natehale1971]

While not defending her, I think I do understand what she is doing. (Know thy enemy). She is trying to push you as far away as possible so she can run away from what she has done. I think she is hoping for "out of sight out of mind". She also has to justify to herself keeping your boys away from you. It is totally not fair to you and totally selfish but it has a logic (twisted as it might be).

While you are going to be away from you boys for a while you will always be their father. As has been said before the more she tries to keep them from you the more they will want to be with you.


I hope so. Jack already knows that i want to be with him, because he was sitting in my lap asking if i was going to get to stay this last time. And when told him i couldn't stay, he nodded his head and said "because of mummy and 'om." i never wanted the boys to hate her. its why i haven't killed myself. i hurt so damn bad. i just wish that things could be like it was before they left for the UK.

[Targan]

While not defending her, I think I do understand what she is doing. (Know thy enemy). She is trying to push you as far away as possible so she can run away from what she has done.
That was exactly my assessment too. Saying what she said is clearly a deliberate strategy and I doubt it is the truth.

While you are going to be away from you boys for a while you will always be their father. As has been said before the more she tries to keep them from you the more they will want to be with you.
You should listen to Kato, Nate. His are wise words.

[kato13]

I hope so. Jack already knows that i want to be with him, because he was sitting in my lap asking if i was going to get to stay this last time. And when told him i couldn't stay, he nodded his head and said "because of mummy and 'om." i never wanted the boys to hate her. its why i haven't killed myself. i hurt so damn bad. i just wish that things could be like it was before they left for the UK.

The pain will diminish. There will be real rough patches, but you will hold them again. You just have to endure for now. Remember your boys need you.

[kato13]

You should listen to Kato, Nate. His are wise words.

As they are originally yours I believe they are extra wise.

[Adm.Lee]

I'm no shrink, but I feel moved to jump in here.

I can only repeat what my Pop told me when my 2nd son lay dying in the hospital: "The pain will never go away, but it will diminish." He was quoting a friend who had lost a daughter.

Seven years later, the pain is largely gone, the memories are not. I trusted in God, and life hasgotten better. I thank God for that, I feel that He had something to do with it.

My situation is not yours, and I am not you, so all I have are suggestions. I can suggest to live through it, and you will find yourself living again. Also, don't try to go through it alone.

{I don't know your opinion on religion, so I will apologize if bringing up my Christianity bothers you; but my faith has been my biggest prop.}

[kato13]

My condolences on your son Adm.Lee.

[natehale1971]

I'm no shrink, but I feel moved to jump in here.

I can only repeat what my Pop told me when my 2nd son lay dying in the hospital: "The pain will never go away, but it will diminish." He was quoting a friend who had lost a daughter.

Seven years later, the pain is largely gone, the memories are not. I trusted in God, and life hasgotten better. I thank God for that, I feel that He had something to do with it.

My situation is not yours, and I am not you, so all I have are suggestions. I can suggest to live through it, and you will find yourself living again. Also, don't try to go through it alone.

{I don't know your opinion on religion, so I will apologize if bringing up my Christianity bothers you; but my faith has been my biggest prop.}

im a christian too... i keep holding onto my faith, because only three things in my life that i have loved haven't thrown me away.. My God, my country and my boys. they are the only ones i have loved that haven't abandoned me. i'm sorry about your boy. it makes me feel so selfish. i'm sorry for what you've lost. i hold onto my faith in God. if you looked at my dog tags you'd see that i have two extra tags, each one has my boys name and birthdate on them. so i can have them as close to my heart as they are. and i have a little chain with a cross, a star of david and star & cresent. all three faiths born of the God of Abraham. i am sorry you lost your little boy.. i don't know how you've survived this loss. everyone tells me that God has something important for me to do since i had survived the wreck and have bounced back from dying three times. i just wish i knew what i am suppose to do. all i have ever wanted was to be a husband and father. it's all i have ever asked him for. pathetic huh? i gave her everything she ever asked for. the boys and i went without so she could have her cigs. but says it just was enough.