LOL... Yeah I hear there Paul. I think, may of the Airborne Infantry types are the same. In the end you are going to get wet anyways in the field. Even with the poncho and liner the best use for it was for use at night for sleeping under the poncho and using the liner over the sleep bag unless it was like in mid winter, the the sleep bag was brought out due to you never knew when it may snow out in the field at Bragg...lol

Everything he said. I also thought that "sky camo" the urban camo with blue in it looked cool. Very Nintendo Contra looking. I don't think anyone ever used it of course.:D I see the Russians use blue in one of there camo patterns(Gorod). Personally I think Blue stands out to much, but it does look cool.

Has anyone seen the new Chinese Digital Camo?

I may be wrong, but blue camo can't provide much camouflage.

Hmmmm, the government doing something in an intelligent, rational manner...

NOPE!

That will never happen!!!!

:p

It looks to me like they assumed we must have known something they did not understand with out ACU pattern, so they copied us with similarly dismal results.

Digital camo? Does that mean it has pictures of fingers all over it? :D

Of course not! It has numbers, and they count down to the time of your death!

My vote is for the woodland pattern with a qualifier; the ripstop BDUs, not the cotton ones. When the cotton fades you stick out like a turd in a punchbowl.

I voted "other" but can't remember why. It was probably for something unconventional like tiger stripe. I had a pair of awesome nylon/cotton ripstop BDU type pants I got from USCAV back in the late 80's or early 90's that were in a disrupted dark grid pattern called something like French Night Desert, but I can't find any evidence that such a thing ever existed. Closest I can find online is those shitty US Army Gulf War I anti-NVG "overwhites" that didn't actually work, but these were actually cut like regular BDU trousers. They kicked ass. But as far as a pattern actually expected to be encountered in the timeline, I'd probably go with the German Flecktarn.

I owned some pre-CADPAT green Canadian Forces combat fatigue pants (aka "combats") made from cotton. They were the most comfortable thing I owned and everyone I talked to in the CF (Reg Force or Militia) loved them too because they were extremely soft and comfortable. Much more so the rip-stop US BDUs, but that was the problem, they weren't nearly as durable and eventually came apart. (I hear they needed to be repaired/replaced after every other exercise, almost.) Still, while they lasted, they were as comfortable as pyjamas, and they didn't even fade too badly over time (they looked a lot like Israeli fatigues except a little more green).

I hear the CADPAT combats are much more durable but less comfortable. I also have a nylon camouflage Canadian Airborne smock somewhere, with a unique pattern somewhat like British DPM but lighter with less brown. It was a neat pattern, issued to airborne commandos because the CF combats before CADPAT were not camouflaged.

Tony

Fading was a sought after quality in our Auscams as firstly it was a sign of experience (and who wants to look like a newbie) and secondly it meant they matched the predominately drought conditions we usually operated in - bright new colours tended to stick out more when the trees, bushes and grass were all parched.

I had a similar attitude towards woodland BDUs back in the day -- new, they stood out really badly in fields, scrub, autumn foliage colors and such. Some fading made them work a lot better, and I developed the theory that when senior NCOs started getting very negative in garrison they were just about ideal for field use.

That's part of why you had field BDUs and garrison BDUs.

There was a Swiss camo pattern that had a lot of red in it, an looked a little like flames or long grass with black and other colors interwoven... I've been looking for a picture of it for years... i used it as the camo pattern for body armor in a 2300ad game after i had saw it in a US Cavalry catalog when i was in the navy (1989-1994).

Well, saw a strange camo outfit in, of all the werid places, the local mall. I must admit, pink, black and white was a rather odd combo, but she looked good in it!

This one?
http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/camouflage/im...alpenflage.jpg
Commonly called Alpenflage or Leibermuster by collectors, proper name appears to be Kampfanzug 57 or Tarnanzug 83 (TAZ 83)
http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/camouflage/english.htm
http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00014.php

It allows her to blend into the background when she's shoplifting.

Unfortunately, that's not the one I've been looking for. I remembered it was actually called Industrial Camouflage. The Swiss Cammies are great, i love those...

I wish i could find the old artwork i had done with the body armor done in the patterns that I was wanting to get a really good example of it. The colors were red, black, blue-gray, light gray. It was suppose to be used by snipers in industrial areas i think.

Hmmm, you're not making this easy are you!
Given the colours you mentioned, the nearest I can find is this one but it's nothing more than the BDU type pattern done by some US civilian company
http://www.specopstactical.com/shop/...othco/7915.jpg
Or this one, a Russian design made for their Ministry of Extraordinary Situations (i.e. Emercom - civil defence/emergency response organization)
http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Images/mchsklmk.jpg

I can't find any references on the net to an urban/industrial sniper cam with red colours :(

Believe me, I know. :(

I've been looking for the pattern for years now. I even asked US Cavalry if they had the swatch patch pictures still, and they didn't have them. :(

Thus I have been tearing through all my old artwork looking for the original drawings to try and find the pictures of the pattern so i can use that, but so far no luck in finding them. it's been a real pain...

why do my fatigues have a 00:01 on them?

I picked flecktarn for a number of reasons but they all boil down to personal preferance.

But in all honesty I have to say "other" was my true choice: dark khaki. Call me old school but I feel that for the most part camo isn't needed save for troops in special roles. I've seen many a trooper use camo as a crutch to excuse poor field skills and by and large the various patterns seem to foster an idea that you don't have to try as hard to stay hidden. Dark Khaki (or Flat Dark Earth as the "operator types" (and that's another rant) call it) is a true multi environment colour, it blends well in the desert as well as the green sorts of places. Besides proper design of the uniform itself can lend to one that works well in the field and looks sharper than hell in garrison.

No mention of the East German Strichtarn?

I've heard it said that the perfect camouflage pattern is perfect only only until you move.

Very true. I remember my instructors telling us over and over again during basic that "movement attracts the eye".

What the hell was that little phrase they taught in regards to personal cam, something like 'the 5 S's and the M" or something like that but I can't remember all the S words (Shape, Shine, Silhouette, Sound, ? and Movement).
Was it even 5 or just those 4? I can't remember. Was it Size perhaps?
Targan, Legbreaker, help me out here! :p

Assuming it was the same as here in the UK it was;

Shape
Shine
Shadow
Silhouette
Spacing

Movement

Aircraft

Thats the way we were taught anyway.

On the subject of "perfect" camo patterns,
Seems that with all the money and time spent by the US Army to bring us the ACU universal good everywhere pattern seems to have not worked out so well.

While they are keeping the uniform style, the army is beginning to issue a new pattern to troops going to Afghanistan- Multicam. So much for only having to keep track of one kind of bdu (at one time I had three woodland styles- fireproof, ripstop, and temperate (my personal fav), choco-chip, and desert 3 colour, which to be fair, was just nuts as we was supposed to have 4 each according to our regimental commander).

Went to the local mall and looked to make sure that the local hiphop shop was still selling its Pink, White and Grey BDUs. Now then, there are those out there in the forum who are wondering why I even bring up this...but I feel that we are overlooking a critical need for today's military, namely the ability to blend in to the urban club scene and to inflict massive damage on hiphop terrorists!!!

:p

ROTFLMAO.... In all seriousness the it may just work in some neighborhoods...lol

Ripstop-lol. They were nice if you needed a uniform to starch and if you wore out in the field and they rip, it would rip along the seem for a lot further than normally would.

It seemed like every time we went to the field in the Summer someone would get chew for wearing temperate ones out the field for wear the heavy uniform when he should have set of the light ripstop to wear.

4 sets of each huh. That amusing since at during Basic Training we were issued 2 sets of temperate and 2 set of ripstop woodland. The only time we seen desert camo which came in choco-chip then was about a week before we deployed overseas...lol

It seems Khaki in various shades and the various shade of olive-green worked for long time for the normal troops...

We are forgetting the next most commonly used color of basic Black that some many "operator types" like to say they use too... *Shrug*

Okay granted the cotton would fade, but they lasted a lot longer. Many time a trooper would keep them just to wear while out in the field. They didn't rip out so easily...

Yeah, this was from the regimental commander that wound up relieved due to poor command climate. But to be fair, I couldn't bitch: I was one of those who had to have sharp uniforms, 2 sets of the pricey A's, dress blues and whites. Never did get mess, but I did think long and hard about it.

Lucky you (I think)!

One set of dress blues and the only mess dress ever seen was when our squadron commander showed up in a set for a squadron dinner. I guess he could be excused, he had just finished two years in the Pentagon; even more surprisingly, he was a damned fine light colonel...didn't play the usual games, which is probably why he was exilied to the border cav!

LTC Shimmick, our PMS in ROTC, had mess dress. Looked sharp, but I kept thinkng, "One little drop..."

I think the only thing that stopped me from getting mess dress was the talk at the time of a new uniform, balking at the price of having one made for me - I didn't get dress, and one of my "A's" from clothing supply, no not me...- and finally I think it was a little wrong for a staff sergeant having a set of mess dress for honestly, no real reason. Yes, Lowell was my role model. ;)

I never even got dress blues, and didn't need them. I had two tailored sets of class As, though -- my shape didn't change the whole time I was in the Army, except in Basic.

Guess it was the thang with the ACRs...Squadron Mess Night, Regimental Mess Night, Change of Command Night...blues or your best set of Class As and there was no shirking, unless you were on duty.

One of the things that always impressed me was the strong sense of tradition that the ACRs kept. You might see photos of the chain of command in a armor battalion, but the ACRs also had photos of every regimental commanding officer...you also heard the colonel being refered to as the 32nd, 33rd or 34th Colonel of the Regiment. Squadron headquarters with its Wall of Honor, listing every battle that the regiment took part in. The names of all of the winners of the Medal of Honor. The regimental birthday. Right on down to the honorable post of Squadron and Regimental Bugler...and when we had a Bierfest with the local German unit, we used to have fun blowing all of the old calls....

The old regiments had a proud sense of tradition, guess that is what brought out the best in us, knowing that the old 2nd Dragoons were looking on...