Why I think the moon landing was fake is because we in a race with the Soviets both on the ground and space. Us landing on the moon would make it appear that the U.S.A. was much farther ahead of the Soviets. How do you go from just being able to orbit the earth a few years earlier to landing a craft on a rock surface in space like the moon that quickly? Why have we only done this once?
It seem like a better challege then just sending our guys up there to orbit around the Earth like we have been doing ever since. It was ironic how our plans to do this again in 2010 got scrapped. I'm guessing they hoped to do this for the first time then, but then figuired they weren't really ready yet. With the world convinced that they have already done this, why risk looking like a liers now if something bad happened.

If you have a powerful enough telescope you can see stuff that humans put on the moon. Including stuff that arrived with manned moon misions. Actually SEE it. That fact makes it hard for me to believe that there were no manned moon landings. Its pretty solid evidence.

Do you have any actual evidence to support these claims?

Do you have any answer to how previous claims of evidence have all be debunked?

Do you have any answer to how there is ample evidence from international 3rd parties that have confirmed the landings? (For not only the first landing but the others as well)

It also seems that there are few fallacies in your reasons as well - affirming the consequent and fallacy of false cause (if I haven't mislabeled the terms). Those shouldn't be good reasons to believe in things even when being skeptical

You shouldn't believe everything you read, because that like believing in everything you hear.

What do they have up there? Is it the stage that they filmed it in?:D

Correct. Which is why you always check the sources of any claims.

In this case there is ample facts (either observable, testable, or verifiable) from a large number of neutral 3rd parties that shows that the landings did indeed occur.

Moon landings are a better challenge, but they are much harder to pull off. We've been stuck in Earth orbit since the 1970's because the political will to go back go the Moon (and spend the money) isn't there. While I'm not even a well-read amateur on the subject of lunar exploration, I do know that getting people there and back requires a much greater expenditure of energy, which translates into much greater cost than an orbital destination. While I firmly agree that we should be returning to the Moon (and exploiting lunar resources), the political will just hasn't been there.

Just wait till China (or worse, India!) puts something significant on the lunar surface. Then you'll see the political will return like a bad case of acid reflux.

Webstral

I firmly believe that the next astronaut to set foot on the moon will be Chinese. The first expedition to Mars will be international -- but the way the economy and the will of the electorate is going in this country, there may not be an American on that first crew that goes to Mars. The people and politicians in this country don't seem to have the stomach or resolve to tackle the big projects anymore, even important ones like getting off fossil fuels (which should be a priority for the entire human race -- an international effort like that which sent astronauts to the moon, scaled-up). And our politicians are barely willing even to do something that might be politically risky or cost them campaign dollars. I believe that without colonizing space (and soon) the human race is not going to have a chance to survive even if we get through the next century intact, but the people of this country by and large can't see the necessity of almost any large-scale scientific research, let alone something hugely expensive like human space exploration and colonization.

On another tack, what power telescope does it take to pick out the landing sites on the Moon? It's actually an urban myth that you can see the Great Wall of China or other large man-made structures from orbit with the naked eye -- you need a lens with a pretty decent magnification to see even the largest man-made structures from orbit. During the day, from the orbits that the Space Shuttle and the ISS use, you can't even look down with the naked eye and see our largest cities -- you need a lens with a magnification of at least 4x to start seeing them. (At nighttime, however, you can see the lights from the cities fairly well with the naked eye.) It seems that you'd need one of those huge telescopes like the 200-inch one on Mt. Palomar to see the landing sites from the Earth.

In regards to how did we go from orbiting the Earth to landing on the Moon so quickly, I'd just like to say that in the 1920s we had aircraft made of wood, wire and canvas, then in the 1940s they were made from metal and powered by jet engines and could just reach the sound barrier. In the late 1950s they began the design that resulted in the SR-71, a high altitude Mach 3 aircraft that first flew in 1964. In 1981, the first US Space Shuttle launch was achieved, a spacecraft designed in the 1970s.
So in 50 years we have gone from wood & canvas biplanes to the space shuttle, I think we could easily have achieved the Moon landings. The technology was sufficient and the political will and funding were strong enough to support the efforts

Personally I think that the moon landings were real.

The criticism I've always heard is to do with the footage having shadows on things that shouldn't have had shadows and flags "flapping in the wind" etc. I've always wondered whether some of the real footage wasn't particularly good and that as a result the NASA PR department decided to use some footage from the training on earth to make the what they released more impactful.

Both of those have been tested and refuted under laboratory conditions as being false.

And don't forget the reverse engineering of alien spacecraft technology discovered at the Roswell UFO crash site! ;)

Well, since we're speaking of conspiracy stories and I think Ive had my fill of political garbage, I think Id like to put forward Terry Pratchett's theory about alien abductions and their banning by the intergalactic community as of late. The confusion as to what would be interesting in our BVDs aside, the banning on abductions has been placed due to different species of alien expeditions lying in wait to abduct humans accidentally abducting other aliens who were lying in wait to do the same thing. Add to that another group of aliens who had received confused instructions and were herding cattle into circles and mutilating crops, and it was clear that the intergalactic community had to make Earth a "no-abduction zone" until it was determined exactly how many earthlings they had actually abducted. As it turns out, only one; who happens to be eight feet tall, extremely hairy and with gigantic feet.

We haven't landed on the moon...yet. Those pictures were grabbed off of news communications satellites using a device invented using technology from crashed UFOs, which allowed us to intercept signals from satellites not yet invented. We did that with the alien technology, because the saucer in the Roswell crash contained a device that allowed communication with different points in time using a time-space tunneling technology.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?:p

Since Kota brought up Sasquatch, what do you think of that? I can believe that there could be a Yeti -- the places it's supposedly been spotted are remote and hostile enough to humans that a breeding population could go almost unnoticed. Sasquatch, however, I have more trouble believing -- I don't think a viable breeding population could go this long unnoticed in the US and Canada, since we humans have tramped liberally across the landscape for hundreds of years, and civilization has been gobbling up more and more of the wilderness in the region for almost as long.

I read a story in my early teens -- can't remember the author or name of it. In that story, it turned out that the "aliens" were us. Those "aliens" were in fact our descendants, tens of thousands of years from now, and they periodically travel back in time to study their ancestors, and to ensure that historical events unfold in such a way to ensure their existence.

Quite frankly, the possible paradoxes that come with time travel boggle my mind. But I think that time travel is the one technology that absolutely, under no circumstances whatsoever, that humans should ever be allowed to develop. Think of the crap we've pulled with technology so far -- the human race isn't responsible enough to possess time travel. The amount of wisdom you'd need to have to not produce any paradoxes with time travel is probably impossible for any race in the universe to possess. And it's virtually certain that time travel would be misused by mankind -- we've pretty much misused every other technology we've come up with in some way or another.

IMO it's highly unlikely due the absence of any real evidence and for the reasons you've gave as well. But regarding the bit about it having nowhere to hide... on the other hand, they recently discovered a deer that nobody knew even existed, in Vietnam which has an very high population density.

Reminds of WWII when the Soviet got their hands on B-29 that had landed in the Soviet Union due to damage while on a bomb run over Japan. Stalin order exact duplicates to be reverse engineered. Well they sure did, even included the bullet holes that riddle the plane...lol

My theory on aliens is that they aren't from outer space....they're from underground. All the UFO sightings are just drones to draw attention away from the truth.

I don't think Big Foot could exist either with him being so big and not getting spotted. They have done so much to find one and never produced anything yet. By now someone would have shot one or found remains of one.

Weren't the Germans supposed to have built some type of flying saucer type craft back in World War 2?

I always thought the technology we would need to go to the Moon, except for rockets with sufficient thrust, was around by the 1930's. You basically needed a sealed container with a life support system along with carrying enough oxygen and/or even an air recycling system. Most likely you would use batteries for power. Radio, we were just starting to experiment with UHF. Space suits, the aeronauts who went to 70,000 feet plus had suits where with some modifications, be able to be used on the Moon. As to food and water, I'm sure you can pack food that will not be messy.

I do believe we did go to the Moon, you just needed the will and the money plus with the added rocket technology from World War II and the refinement on it, going to the Moon was accomplished.

Getting back to my original ideas, the theories were worked out a long time ago, it just took the will and money to test and bring them about.

I think the reason why many people believe the Moon trip was a hoax is, one an entire generation of adults are alive who never saw a Moon landing on TV. I'll be 44 in July and I remember watching Apollo 11 even though I was 3 at the time. Two, most of that same generation grew up with computers, CD's, DVD's to an extent and so on, they ask, "how can the technology of the 1960's do such a thing," it would seem so ancient to them. We could go the Moon now but we don't have the will and money.

Chuck

That's sort of like the old 1940's theory about a race of underground dwellers called the "Deros." Some say they were descended from the people of Atlantis and Lemuria and in the areas around the world where the live underground, people have claimed to have heard hums like the "Bristol Hum" or "Taos Hum." The hum sounds like a distant diesel engine running and one theory is that it is the machinery the Deros are using.

Chuck

The old Haunebu series. Some say that when the Germans were losing, they took them to the Antarctic and went underground to wait things out until there is the time to come out and build a 4th Reich.

Chuck

My own take is that there are no paradoxes in time travel, I see it more like an 8-Track tape than the one string that some believe. If I go back in time and kill my grandfather before he fathered my mother, I would still exist but at that point in time, like hitting the channel button to an 8-Track tape player (jumping from Program 1 to Program 2), I would create a point of divergence where a separate timeline is created. Perhaps I would unleash some "butterflies" and history could be different a little bit or a lot, who knows? I would still exist but I would be like a "man without a country," a person from one timeline who jumped to another.

Now instead of 4 programs on the 8-Track, remember they were stereo, you have an infinite set of programs out there and what you do might create more. I think time travel incorporates some "sliding" (like in the TV show "Sliders") as well.

I think a good illustration is the Christmas movie, "It's a Wonderful Life" where George was taken to a timeline where he wasn't born, yet he existed. Of course, in that case, divine intervention was used instead of science as a vehicle, but it is a good example of my idea.

Chuck

I just turned 48 today -- I used to watch every space mission closely. I can remember all the way back to watching the Gemini 12 mission when I was 4 years old.

Happy Birthday!!!! I don't remember much before Apollo, but I have always been fascinated by space. BTW, I think the last Gemini mission flew when I was 5 months old. :D

Chuck

Happy birthday Paul!!! :D

They didn't stay in Antartica, they left some time in 1945 and in 2018 they'll be back... Iron Sky http://www.ironsky.net/site/



Spoiler Warning


Iron Sky is a humorous sci-fi movie made by a Finnish-German group involving a Nazi moonbase and flying saucers. It's due for release in 2011.

Happy birthday!!

Happy birthday, Paul, and many more!

Webstral

This looks like huge fun! Thanks for turning me on to it, because I've now discovered a treasure trove of similar such fun on You Tube. I should be doing my school work and finding recipes for my son's semi-big person diet. But I can't help myself.

Webstral

I'm getting older and fatter! Please no more!:D

Don't I hear that. My wife keeps washing my pants wrong, and they're all shrinking.

Webstral

That reminds me of that episode of MASH where all of Frank's clothes kept getting smaller and smaller. It was driving him nuts. After one time where none of his clothes fit, he ran out of the Swamp (which is what they called their tent), and Trapper looks at Hawkeye, and says, "What do we do next?" Hawkeye says "I think we'll make him taller." It turns out they'd been secretly taking his clothes to a Korean village nearby where they found a seamstress willing to go in with the joke.

This looks bad ass!

It was rumored that the Nazi's where building a secret base in Antarctica, but was later destroyed by some U.S. Navy Admiral and his expedition force sent there. That would make a great science fiction movie in it's self.

Want to have fun? Type "conspiracy theory" into Google and see what comes out!

Bigfoot
 

I took a few physical anthropology courses on my way to a bachelor's in archaeology and I really would like to believe there's a pocket of primitive hominids hanging out in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S./Canada, the Himalayas, and/or the jungles of southeast Asia.

Unfortunately, based on the complete lack of hard evidence, I highly doubt any such populations exist. No physical remains have been found by hunters, hikers, loggers, explorers, etc. With the world shrinking as fast as it is (habitat loss, suburban sprawl, human population explosion, cel-phone video, global media, etc.), it would be incredibly difficult for any such group of Sasquatches (or whatever) to remain hidden and isolated.

Secondly, if such a small, isolated population existed, a phenomenon sometimes called genetic bottlenecking would be taking place. With a relatively small, closely related genepool, these creatures would be suffering from all kinds of genetic disorders and maladies that would further hinder their survivability.

The same thing could be said of other mythical creatures like the Loch Ness monster, the Chupacabra, etc.

Lastly, most, if not all, of the purported "evidence" of these creatures (at least in the U.S.) has been exposed as bogus. Most of it is the work of good-natured pranksters and/or folks hoping to prosper from their "discoveries".

It would be cool if there were a few peaceful and nature loving hominids out there in the woods somewhere, untouched by time and unsullied by human excesses. Unfortunately, I think this is more wishful thinking and conspiracy theory than anything else. I hope I'm wrong.

Paul! You are wrong! Now go to your room and watch your MASH! It was Charles they were messing with.

:p