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-   -   Drozd/ERA (https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3095)

Vespers War 10-05-2022 06:58 PM

OK, I've done a little more poking around and have some guesses on slightly less well-known systems.

Poland developed ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2 in the early 1990s, fitting it onto T-72s and T-72 derivatives like the PT-91. For the PT-91, the original layout had ERAWA-1 on the turret, hull front, and hull sides. Later layouts used a mix of the two types.

ERAWA-1 provides AV 60 vs HEAT.
ERAWA-2 provides AV 100 vs HEAT and AV 35 vs KE.


One that had me confused for a while was Czech Republic's Dyna, because the numbers were incredibly high. Then I found that they had reported the overall performance of blocks mounted on a T-72, both the ERA's effect and the underlying composite armor. So, I was (eventually) able to take the reported numbers and back out the amount of the glacis plate. Dyna is used on the T-72M4CZ.

Dyna provides AV 130 vs HEAT and AV 35 vs KE.


Finally, and somewhat relevantly for current events, Ukraine has Nizh (knife, also known by its Russian name of Nozh) and Duplet ERAs. The numbers for these were calculated by taking a manufacturer's catalog page and averaging the effectiveness across the various HE and KE penetrators they listed. Nizh is used on the T-64 Bulat and Duplet on the T-84 Oplot.

Nizh provides AV 70 vs HEAT and AV 25 vs KE.
Duplet provides AV 90 vs HEAT and AV 30 vs KE.

Duplet can be fitted in up to three layers. I did not see estimates of the layering effectiveness, so to have some sort of rule that works within the game, each additional layer provides 50% more protection. A double layer is AV 135 vs HEAT and AV 45 vs KE and a triple layer is AV 180 vs HEAT and AV 60 vs KE. The T-84 Oplot has three layers on the hull sides and turret and two layers on the glacis.

All of these are likely somewhat optimistic numbers, but I feel like that tends to be somewhat true in general for technical specifications in T2K.

Vespers War 10-06-2022 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChalkLine (Post 89795)
Kaktus is the only 'soviet' ERA that can be placed on a vehicle with less than 30mm of 350BHN RHA equivalent (Soviet armour was 550 BHN so it's about 1.3x equivalent armour) so it can go on much lighter vehicles. This is why it ended up on the BMP-3

I finally found some information on Kaktus from a NII Stali booklet, and got lucky because I only found it doing a search for 4S24, since that's the code used by the manufacturer for that ERA's blocks. They report that it's the same effectiveness as 4S20, just with half the explosive. 4S20 is Kontakt-1 (4S22 is Kontakt-5 and 4S23 is Relikt, just for reference). So, 80 points of AV vs HEAT and no additional armor against KE.

Vespers War 10-07-2022 10:49 PM

I'm probably going to put together a blog post some time in the next few weeks to summarize all the ERA systems I've been able to find information for. To add one more to the list, and one that's relevant in any of the Twilight War timelines, there's France's BRENUS. This was introduced by 1992 for the AMX-30, although only about half of France's tanks were fitted with it (the others had some modifications done so it could quickly be added if needed). Amazingly, Nexter was still advertising it in their 2018 catalog, with kits available for the AMX-30, M48, M60, T-72, M113, BMP-3, and CV90. It's a fairly light ERA, adding 80 to AV vs HEAT and 20 to AV vs KE.

The big one I'm still having trouble finding any solid information on is ARAT, both the M19 ARAT-1 and M32 ARAT-2. Numbers are classified, which makes sense, but I can't even find guesses.

Vespers War 03-28-2023 02:40 PM

Well, it's almost six months later and I haven't done that blog post, but I did find out about the existence of two more systems. In an article about Ukraine's Kevlar-e prototype, which is a 2S1 Gvozdika modified into an IFV carrying 6 infantry and equipped with an uncrewed 30mm Shturm turret, there was mention of Raketka ERA and Shershen APS. As best as I can tell, those are versions of Nizh and Zaslin modified for use on lightly-armored vehicles. Looking them up in English is a bit of an exercise, since Raketka is rocket and there's a Shershen ATGM from Belarus.

Raellus 04-13-2023 06:00 PM

Patchwork
 
2 Attachment(s)
An interesting visual detail that Ref's might want to include is the appearance of "digital/pixelated" ("patchwork" might be more apropos for the late 1990s) camouflage resulting from the use of ERA blocks from different batches.

Raellus 07-01-2023 02:22 PM

Transplanted ERA
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here's an ex-Canadian Leopard II MBT fitted with Soviet-era Kontakt ERA. It makes sense that this practice would also be seen in the Twilight War.

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Ursus Maior 07-04-2023 08:24 AM

A beauty.

Vespers War 07-04-2023 07:36 PM

I look forward to seeing the M1A1V and CR2V to go along with the Leopard 2A4V CAN

Raellus 07-10-2023 10:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespers War (Post 95168)
I look forward to seeing the M1A1V and CR2V to go along with the Leopard 2A4V CAN

Ask, and ye shall receive. :)

This is a mock-up for simulation/training purposes, so those ERA bricks probably aren't real, but if ERA was fitted to an M1 Abrams, it would probably look something like this (the word painted on the turret apparently reads, "Boat"- it's not clear whether this was an accidental mistranslation of a different, intended word, or some sort of inside joke):

Vespers War 07-28-2023 04:43 PM

I have another "does anyone have any information about this" question. While looking at old Soviet prototypes, a writeup of Object 490 mentions it was supposed to have a "Shtandart" active protection system. This is a royal pain to search for online because it means Standard. I've seen mentions of it in discussion of Object 195 (the "T-95") as well, but that's all I've found. Does anyone know of any technical information about the system?

The Object 490 writeup also mentions it was intended to use Gofr ERA. Allegedly Gofr is the basis for Serbia's ERO-19 ERA on the M-84AS1, and (again allegedly) it's roughly equivalent to Relikt.

Higgipedia 07-28-2023 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespers War (Post 95410)
I've seen mentions of it in discussion of Object 195 (the "T-95") as well, but that's all I've found. Does anyone know of any technical information about the system?

I don't but maybe it's the Arena system that replaced the Drozd system or the Afghanit system that replaced Arena.

Vespers War 07-28-2023 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Higgipedia (Post 95411)
I don't but maybe it's the Arena system that replaced the Drozd system or the Afghanit system that replaced Arena.

It's possible they're developmentally linked, but Shtandart was mounted totally differently from other Soviet APS systems. Where Drozd, Arena, and Afganit all use tube launchers mounted under the turret, Shtandart on Object 490 had 10 tubes mounted vertically along the rear hull in two rows of five on either side of a 30mm secondary turret, six on the horizontal surface of the hull rear facing rearward*, and ten more scattered around the hull sides and front corners. It clearly wasn't operating on the same principles as Arena or Afganit that slew the turret to face the projectile and then fire directly at it, since none of the launchers were on mobile mounts.

I did find an allegation that it could intercept at least some tank rounds, which Arena can't do (and the jury is out on whether Afganit can), but that seems very questionable for a system developed in the 1980s. Regardless of whether it could intercept tank rounds, the vertical mounts would have been useful given the development of top-attack missiles like TOW-2B, Tank Breaker/Javelin, NLAW, and Spike.

*the tank was designed to drive backwards during road marches, so that's less absurd than it originally sounds since ambush attacks would have a higher prevalence of attacks on the forward-facing rear of the tank.

Raellus 08-12-2023 02:09 PM

ERA Cope Cage
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm not sure how this one got past me, but the Russians have fitted ERA to cope cages, first appearing on the battlefield back in April (if not before).

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