Kato, I've been chewing this one over since this thread came to my attention last week, and I have to admit that I'm more than a little perplexed by your statement here. I kept a fairly low profile on both this board and the various T2k mailing lists because of a few vocally negative reactions to early information about the 2013 project, and because Keith (smokewolf) was handling playtester/consultant recruiting along with all other personnel matters. I know a few of our playtesters are active here, but I think it'd be obvious if you were referring to them. As far as I can recall, the only person to whom I've coldly and deliberately been an ass in my "2013 systems guy" persona was Justin Oldham on our forums, and, given the provocation he offered, I still stand by my statements in that thread. If I said something in this forum's previous incarnation that gave offense to a specific member or the general audience, please bring it to my attention.

I've often said that this industry is really more of a subsidized hobby. In a lot of cases, the only difference between "amateur" and "professional" is that the so-called pro was lucky enough to catch the attention of a developer or publisher and stupid enough to sign a contract. However, no one gets rich doing this. We're all doing it out of passion.

- C.

This is the first thing I have read that really interests me about T2013. I am a bit of an equipment and logistics nut.

Since I have not posted one for a while here is a shameless plug for my gaming site, which will eventually have a full character shopping cart system, allowing you to equip characters with any of the literally thousands of pieces of equipment I am currently databasing.

http://games.juhlin.com (sorry you have to register again I was not able to unify the logins when RPGhost closing early forced the forum launch)

Oh, good! Now I know who to blame for stacking my poll on future equipment support. :D

I'll register and poke at it after dinner. This looks to be made of pure awesome.

- C.

Kato brother... uhmm.. who was condesending? I hope I wasn't 'cause I've been workign onthis project since 1996 (yea... 1996). When Mr. Taylor got a hold of me (early 2006 I think) I jumped right on board. BTW gang ... neither Snake or I get paid for our contribution - we both turned it down.

I DON'T wanna start any flaming or anything but guys, really, please look at the rules and read them over before you make any decisions. If you're not happy withthe timeline hey then use your own or use the old one. The timeline is "vague" for a reason.

AND Im a HUGE gear whore - let me correect myself - WHORE and Im very happy with the work that was done in the book.

We are ALL brothers in here with the same goal in mind. Having fun correct?

Max

I honestly don't remember all the details as I was not personally involved, though i believe accusations of lying were thrown about. I remember being really excited and then dejected after seeing really bad interactions. As someone who had thought about T2k practically every day (little things like while driving thinking "what would have happened to that fence, generator, or water tower") it must have been serious to have deflated my balloon like that.

I just want to make it clear that my recent interactions with the 93GS people have been exemplary and my interest has now overcome all of my original negativity. I was only being honest about what I remember.

As I said in my previous thread I don't remember all the details nor everyone who was involved. I am not a negative person and I don't hold on to negativity. I do remember arguments about DD214s??? Accusations that people were not what they claimed to be, and in general the attitude of if you don't like what we are saying screw you.

I pull away from negativity, I don't focus on it, and that was my impulse after the first contact with this board. It could have been deadline stress. It could have been a lack of understanding of the general level of respect I expected on this board. It could have been me coming into the middle of an argument. I don't know. I just know that something very early on turned me WAY off. My memory could very easily be flawed but I cannot fathom how my excitement could turn to dejection over nothing.

As far as I am concerned I consider it water under the bridge. Everyone I have dealt with recently has been more than honorable and I am looking forward to getting the book soon.

Kato, I PM'ed you.

It's true. I'm just a fan. And happy to be here. I fly the 93 Games flag around these parts because I'm an old school Twilight player who thinks 2013 is a cool, playable system that really captures the feel of post-apocalyptic survival with equal parts grit and tactical realism - not because I get compensated for it. Although, come to think of it, Keith does usually pay for beers when he's in town.

Yea he does pay for Indian food..... btw - let me just clear somethign up I don't hold any stock or anything in 93GS. I re-read my post and to me it sounded like I was part of it. I'm not - just a fan.

OK, it seems you haven't read all my posts.:D

First, I have seen the discussion going on at your website and as I said, I found your point very well defended. Actually, I advised people to go and check it as I really found it interesting. I might still have registered there but I don't have time to talk in tow places, sorry about that.

Second, one of the weak point I found comes from the lack of illustration and also from the general feeling given by that section. I understand that you had to make a choice but I don't agree with many of them (again that's personnal). For exemple, the Warrior is only used by UK and would be found in very small number. In addition you chose the BMP-2, why not, but it would have been wiser in my opinion to still get the BMP-1 (still in much wider service). The TPz-1 is one of the very rare vehicle. Moreover, you lack more modern vehicles except for the striker (used by US only). In addition I found the list of lighter or specific vehicle (mine resistant) a little poor (too generalist) while I haven't seen any aircraft. I liked your civilian section so but I have trouble finding what these vehicles stand for (still from the lack of illustrations). Nevertheless, all that comes from personnal taste and expectations. Then, I'm waiting from the coming add-on and I know from personnal experience that editing an RPG is not that easy, and finding an illustrator is hell. So don't let people down and keep up with the good work. ;) As I said, I have already seen very interesting points in the rules and as you said, adapting the older materials might not be that hard (but with time going by, I'm getting leasy).

Finally, I never ran in the 2.0 version but the v.2.2 had more than 70 pages. I don't remeber for the v.1.0 but that is a much lighter book.

So much truth into this.:D

You might have to blame me as well.:)

I can understand that. Then, may be you'll have to fill in some of the gap in one way or another. I came up with some similar stuff in y own timeline but some of your choice seem strange. May be you could add some precision to it at your website (and I'm not talking of open talk at the forum).

While that does look like my handiwork, as I know quite a bit about web socket connections (web bots), I am only responsible for one vote. Given I am from Chicago that is doubly surprising.

I did not have my hand at writign the "destroctor" part of the rules. We were all asked to read through it and see if it made sense. While not all of us agreed 100% with EVERYTHING we all thought it was broad enough that it was plausible. Remember gang this is a game and fictional at that. ANYTHING is possible - look we even elected a Black president with a Islamic name who can't/won't prove that he was born in the USA.

So long as things stay civil and respectful, I've no problem sitting down and typing about the thoughts behind the timeline and such. Here or my place doesn't matter to me (if here, if Kato has no problem I'll dual post everything at my place). Feel free to start up a thread asking something and I'll be happy to see if I can help make sense of it all from our point of view. :cool:

Since this got bumped for new votes I thought I would change my original vote. I was "Planning to buy" I am now "T2k timeline and T2k13 rules". I will still use my custom system for task resolution, but I am certainly lifting a significant portion of the T2k13 character creation.

Yeah, you can't officially change your vote, but I feel the same. The quick one off I've run so far has convinced me to run T;2013, with the t:2000 v1 timeline (more or less).

If I can ever get everyone together again :)

I can ;) .

Super admin powers activate.

Changed yours similar to mine.

That sounds like an ideal plan.

I am also using TW 2013 rules with a combo timeline. I like the TW 2000 timeline because it gives me more precise details on what happened where and thats a big time saver when you are planning a campaign. In TW 2013 the war in Europe is almost a sideshow and the lack of details makes it hard to do a pure military campaign like the original game.

BUT the rest of the rules rock and Smoke just came out with a Shooters Guide for all the gun fanatics.

That'd be plural, actually. :cool: We have three so far: Pistol-Caliber Carbines, Alternate Arms, and Cold Warriors. A fourth, Undercover Arms, should release on Sunday.

- C.

Now you tell me, after I've already spent my book budget for the month on Amazon!:(

If it's a PDF, it's not really a book... ;)

- C.

Well then DriveThru RPG will have a new customer in Australia on Monday!

Better late than never!

- C.

I browsed through 2013, but don't think I am going to buy.

I don't play any FtF anymore - being the main reason. There are a few things I don't like about it as well, but admit I haven't given much attention to things like autofire and other elements that 2.2 needs improvement.

Well, I don't play even PBEM anymore, and I don't plan to convert or come up with any stuff for it unless my Excel-Fu dramatically improves or someone can make me some spreadsheets to do it. If anyone wants to give me a Christmas present, T2K13 spreadsheets would be nice...

I doubt I will buy T2013, I'm not a big fan of the new timeline.

If I do buy it, it will just be to round out my collection.

I have bought T2013 and run games as a GM ftf. I agree that the timeline is a little frustrating. I bought it intending to run the timeline from the book, but I modified the background pretty heavily. The Devs chose to leave things pretty open, and to be honest, that is about my only gripe. I played the original T2K and 2.2 for years and loved the system, but...

T2013 is the best modern combat RPG I have ever had the joy to play. The 'initiative', 'combat steps', and morale all lend that extra level of detail 2.2 lacked. 2.2 is a great system and I love it, but T2013 is better. In character creation and starting gear it also gets the nod. Much more realistic career development system. Anti-munchkin measures are in place. :cool:

I agree that the T2013 system is very good. And for those who prefer "rools lite" it has three levels of complexity.