I've seen that map and it also shows the Belgian towns of Antwerp and Ghent as ruined alongside Lille. Another map in Going Home also shows the German city of Hamburg in ruins, and we know from Going Home itself (page 21) that Hamburg wasn't subject to a nuclear attack as it was so heavily bombed beforehand that the Soviet spared it. From previous discussions about the map that shows Lille in ruins on other forums, the consensus was that Lille was targeted by vengeful German and Dutch bombing raids during and after the French occupation of the Rhineland.

If you want to go with V2 then France was hit by nuclear strikes and the country really isn't in very good shape which can be seen in the description of France on Page 225. If that is the case then the French will not be sending the FAR to the Middle East as they haven't the military ability to do so, and the French also have little or no influence in Africa or over their colonies around the world. I prefer V1

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Farson's Finnish Sourcebook was published by FFE/GDW, at least not outside of Finland. Therefore, I don't think it's canon.

There is a refinery in LILLE (or at least there was one in WWII)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NP...0lille&f=false

According to its wikipedia page it is considered to be the most Flemish French city, so it also could have been destroyed by rioting at some point.

AFAIK the Finnish material is based on the original GDW material but is effectively a standalone work with its own modified timeline. I certainly don't think it's canon.

To the best of my knowledge GDW never published anything that definitively stated one way or the other whether Sweden (or France for that matter) was nuked, although there's the occasional nugget of gold buried in Challenge magazines (e.g. the article on Italy for 2300 that mentions the Papacy relocating to Peruggia). If there is anything I suspect that's where it would be.

Personally, I think limited strikes on Sweden (and France) are both well within the realm of feasibility / canon.

I don't think there is an oil refinery in Lille anymore, at least not one that I can find anyhow. The nearest French refinery is I believe in Dunkirk. A lot of French oil refineries seem to have closed or are not in operation at the moment, certainly compared to 20 years ago. Probably something to do with the proliferation of French nuclear reactors which has replaced a lot of oil and fossil fuel sources for electricity in France.

I think its based on your personal preference for V1 or V2.

I've always preferred V1 as the Soviet Union and the timeline and history is less complicated. In V2 there was a limited nuclear strike on France, but with that there is a bit of a trade off with the military power that France would have in the aftermath. I've always liked a big French force in the Middle East and in other locations, which gives an extra component to the traditional two dimensional US-Soviet rivalry.

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

Hi, Antenna
 

Welcome back! We've missed you.

Per the 2nd edition France was definitely nuked - and its seems to imply that Lyons and Paris were nuked or at least heavily damaged - see the comment about Marseilles

"Despite being neutral, France was subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine. A free-fire zone (commonly called La Zone Morte - the Dead Zone) has been established within 50km (31 miles) east of the Rhine. Officially, the border is closed to non-French citizens, but the guards are generally open to bribes. The border with Spain is closed, but often crossed by smugglers. The Union Corse (Corsican criminal underworld) dominate a thriving black market in the region. The government is increasingly repressive, but life in most areas is tolerable.
Some areas, particularly the mountains, are in open rebellion, and martial law is in effect. The government in the southern areas is corrupt and dominated by the Union Corse. Marseilles is the largest undamaged city in the country, though it is in a bad state compared to its pre-war condition. Some trade between Europe and the eastern Mediterranean passes through the city, which is entirely run by the Union Corse.

Most of France is organised (by the French government and military in most areas, by the Union Corse in some southern areas). A few areas in the mountains are disputed or independent. The area between the old border and the Rhine is a combination of terrorised, insular and cantonments. La Zone Morte is devastated"

Saw this posted on a wiki about Sweden - did this come from your pages? They actually had you listed as an external source

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/Sweden

Great to see you back on! Have you ever considered trying to publish what you have officially on Sweden? Marc Miller is looking for more material for new official releases - both Raellus and I have released new official modules/sourcebooks for the game

Hi again

I checked RN7s OOB couple of days ago, it is good for as an OOB for the era around 1965 to 1972. An OOB that I had was built around a history from 1995 to 2000 (soon it will be aviable again). In my OOB for the T2k pages of mine, around 40 to 50% of the brigades will be there. During, as started around 1968 to 2000, the downsized armed forces was an idea from socialdemocrates to build an expert armed forces.

The history for the downzised forces is 38 brigades (1965) to 4 active battalions and 2 in reserve (2015)

Finally the politics in Sweden has understood that the old conscriptions armed forces is the way we defend Sweden, Conscriptions was voted from all parties as a yes, only the Leftpary (communists) voted No or put down their votes.

So Swedish armed forces with around 25 to 32 brigades will take 5 to 8 years.

Back to the T2k story of mine.
Sweden bought MTLBs and BMP-1 from reunited Germany and Leopard 2A4 before the hostilities broke out.

The 120 of Leopards 2A5 wasn't bought to Swedish Armed forces (in top of my mind they was bought 2001 or 2002 in real world)

The link to RN7s OOB of Sweden wasnt åosted due to fumble fingers but it is the 19 post in this thread

Antenna

Antenna, what do you think of the proposed relatively intact Sweden attempting to spread its influence to northern Poland and the Baltic republics?

My OOB for Swedish forces is sourced in the main from IISS Military Balance for 1990-1991 and 1991-1992.

Well, good that you are alive and well =)

You probably have better sources than me. for that 30+ Armed brigades, today it is in a build up faces from those 6 battalions.

Antenna

Today Sweden couldn't manage to raise an army that size. The current Swedish army has less than 7,000 active troops of two brigades with nine combat battalions and three companies, and another seven support battalions and four companies. But they also have 40 Home Guard battalions in reserve

Well the lack of fuel to stahe that operation makes it impossible to do.

Sweden has no oil production of its own - it does have four oil refineries but at least two of them would probably be targets based on the size of oil refineries hit worldwide

These two might still be around but not sure where the smaller Gothenburg refinery is located in relation to the Preem one

Gothenburg Refinery (78,000 bpd refining capacity)
Nynäshamn Refinery (90,000 bpd refining capacity)

The two Preem refineries would probably be taken out by now - either using conventional attack or nukes

Gothenburg Refinery (125,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)
Lysekil Refinery (220,000 bpd refining capacity) (Preem)

If you attack Sweden which was a neutral country during the Twilight War timeline then Sweden is going to join the war against you (Soviet Union). The Swedish army when fully mobilised was big and well equipped, and it would have been a major factor in the Arctic and Scandinavia. It's entry into the war in Norway and Finland would have had a major impact on operations there, and also possibly on the southern shore of the Baltic. Sweden also had a well trained and equipped air force and navy, designed specifically for operations in Scandinavia and the Baltic Sea.

I can't see the Soviets launching a nuclear attack on Sweden for the above reasons, and also because Swedish forces are at full strength or would still be nearly at that level in the aftermath of a limited nuclear strike on Sweden. However once the war goes nuclear the Soviets might go for the oil refineries to deny them to both Sweden and NATO, and they wouldn't need nuclear weapons to do so. Oil refineries are fairly combustible by nature and a few well placed airstrikes against them could do the job.

Sweden has no crude oil resources and is 100% import dependent. Oil accounts for 28% of Sweden's primary energy supply, although in the 1990's it would have been well over 30%. Renewable energy (mainly hydro) account for 35% and nuclear power accounts for 30%. Hydro and nuclear account for most of Sweden's electricity generation. Although overall oil consumption has declined in Sweden, its use in the transport sector has continued to rise and the armed forces would be highly dependent on it. Currently half of oil imports come from Russia, with rest mainly coming from Norway and Denmark. In the mid-1990's Norway would have been by far the major source of oil imports.

Sweden imports most of its oil through the tanker terminal in Goteborg, with rest coming through Stockholm and Malmo. Oil distribution is largely by road as there are relatively few pipelines due to the small Swedish market. There are five oil refineries in Sweden with a capacity of 407,000 barrels a day. The largest is at Lysekil with a capacity of 210,000 barrels. There are three refineries in Goteborg, and another one at Nynashamn near Stockholm. Sweden also has 30 coastal and inland oil storage facilities located across the country. The largest oil storage depots are at Goteborg, Lysekil, Gavle, Stockholm, Norrkoping and Malmo and account for two thirds of Swedish oil storage capacity.

The Russians attacked a bunch of neutral countries during the war - they hit France with nukes, a bunch of African countries, nuked Venezuela and Mexico and other countries to deny the US the refineries there

and considering how small Sweden's armed forces are I highly doubt they cared too much about getting attacked by Sweden

The Soviets routinely violated Swedish waters during the Cold War. The air routes to the Atlantic also run through Swedish air space. Anyone really think the Soviets would respect Swedish borders in a shooting war?

I do. I don't think they'd push violations too far, simply because they don't need another enemy.

Sweden's armed forces are not small, particularly it army which is by far the most powerful in Scandinavia. Sweden sends that into Norway or Finland, or even against the Kola Peninsula and its game up in the region for the Soviets.

Sweden has no nukes - the Soviets do. Sweden declares war and they end up with Stockholm sharing Oslo's fate. If the Soviets nuked the French oil centers in V2.2 and got away with it (France having a bunch of nukes of its own) I highly doubt that the Swedish Armed forces would deter them from taking out the biggest Swedish refineries (when Sweden has no nukes)

I'm playing V1 and France want nuked. And in V2 if the Soviets nuke Sweden then Sweden enters the war against them, as I don't think they would trust the Soviets not to nuke Stockholm after they have most likely nuked Goteborg which is their second largest city and the major oil refining centre and port.

Sweden in T2K
 

I'm sure that we had a thread devoted to this topic but searches of the forum and forum map haven't turned it up.

I can see Sweden becoming a Baltic regional power in the wake of OMEGA and the departure of most [loyal] Soviet forces from Poland. I created a unit of Swedish-sponsored mercenaries that could make an appearance in Northern Poland in early 2001 or so. Here is it, for your perusal. Constructive feedback is welcome.

I can't open that document Raellus

I'm sorry, RN7. I'm not sure what the problem is. I am able to open from the link. Do you have a fairly up-to-date copy of Word? I'll convert it to a PDF and attach that. Hopefully, that'll work for you. Please let me know if it doesn't. I may have to contact Kato to ask for a fix. Thanks for letting me know.

PDF Version
 

If the Word doc doesn't open for you, hopefully, this PDF will.

Both worked for me - assume the whole idea for the Swedes is "plausible deniability" with the weapons choice you gave them - i.e. we arent going to see any Swedish armored vehicles show up with them. How about the Bv206 - it was in use with multiple countries and could be something that doesnt scream "The Swedes are here!"

That worked fine thanks

You in fact started that this thread

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5513

I thought I did but I couldn't find it. Thanks. I will merge these two threads presently.

v4 Sweden
 

I figured this would be a more on-topic place to continue the discussion of Sweden in v4.

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For those not familiar with the area. Distance Stockholm - Arlanda by car is 40 km.

Naval and airborne landings:

Attachment 4553

Sweden as a Combatant in v1
 

What follows is an addendum to v1 canon (to bring Sweden into the war on behalf of NATO), for the niche crowd that would like to campaign in Sweden, but prefer the v1 timeline to that provided by 4e. For the sake of edition synergy, I used a bit of the 4e background- namely the primary Soviet units involved in the invasion of Sweden and their respective landing sites. For ease of reference, v1 canon is italicized.

Northern Front, Winter 1996 - Autumn 1997

By the closing weeks of 1996, the Baltic Sea is essentially a Soviet Lake. Pact Naval [air and sea] forces have been able to sweep the Baltic of NATO naval forces. Only land-based NATO air forces and a handful of diesel submarines limit PACT freedom of navigation.

To avoid NATO air power, Pact naval vessels and aircraft routinely enter Swedish territorial waters. Stockholm protests vociferously via diplomatic channels, to no avail. Incidents occur, a few desultory shots are exchanged in the air and at sea. On DATE, Swedish ASW helicopters depth charge a Soviet Tango Class diesel submarine, damaging it and forcing it to surface. Survivors are rescued and interned by the Swedes. Tension builds, but Stockholm refuses to order full mobilization of its military forces in order to avoid further provocation.

By Spring 1997, most Soviet Forces have been pushed out of Northern Norway (isolated pockets left behind continue to resist, as best they can). NATO attempts to advance on Murmansk through northern Finland, without first securing permission from the Finns. Finland strongly asserts its neutrality by attacking the NATO spearhead, stopping it cold (this abrupt halt was more a result of surprise at Finland’s sanguine response, than due to the casualties that it inflicted). Remnants of the Soviet North Sea Fleet destroy a NATO flotilla closing on the Kola Peninsula but suffer crippling losses in turn. Despite its use of force against NATO forces in the north of the country, Finland refuses to ally with the PACT.

Facilitated by numerous tactical nuclear strikes, and reinforcements transferred from the Far Eastern Front, a summer 1997 land offensive in Poland pushes NATO forces back towards the German border, increasing Pact control of the Baltic by making it more difficult for land-based NATO air forces to operate over the region.

Stymied in the far north, Moscow makes the fateful decision to invade Sweden. Long-laid contingency plans for such an operation are dusted off and the Soviet’s last strategic reserve force in Northwestern Europe* (1 VDV airborne division, 1 Naval Infantry Brigade, and 2 recently rebuilt Motor Rifles divisions), are allocated to the task. By invading Sweden, Moscow hopes to knock a troublesome, only nominally-neutral nation out of the war and, more importantly, allow Soviet forces to outflank the NATO units holding firm in northern Norway. The conquest of southern Sweden would also strengthen PACT control of the Baltic Sea, and pose an increased threat to Denmark and NATO’s long left flank in Central Europe.

Mustering its remaining naval and air assets in the region, the PACT launches a large-scale amphibious and airborne invasion- the last of its kind in WWIII- of southeast Sweden. The invasion force is preceded by half-a-dozen precision tactical nuclear strikes (mostly aimed at neutralizing the Swedish air force and navy). Following supplemental conventional airstrikes and a fighter sweep, a Soviet parachute division seizes Arlanda Airport north of Stockholm, while PACT naval infantry battalions land north and south of the capital. Beachheads secured, two motorized rifle divisions arrive by sea during the next few days, and PACT forces begin marching on Stockholm. The Swedish government appeals to NATO for help.

NATO is taken aback by this unexpected development, but the alliance immediately susses out the strategic threat to Norway and Denmark. Preparations for a counter-invasion of Sweden begin.

Despite an overall high state of readiness, Swedish forces are caught out by the surprise Soviet attack. At the time, Sweden’s defense posture was primarily oriented towards the far north- the wilderness frontier region near the borders with Finland and Norway. Several active-duty brigades were on deployment in Northern Norrland, ready to defend Sweden’s territorial integrity in the event that the fighting between NATO, Finnish, and Soviet forces should spill over. Redeployment towards the capital begins almost at once. However, the armored and mechanized brigades will have to transit several hundred miles of wilderness in order to meet the main Soviet threat around Stockholm. During that long road march, the leading armored brigade is decimated by an air-dropped tactical nuclear bomb, temporarily halting the strung-out column.

Meanwhile, Sweden’s Total Defense strategy is belatedly put into effect, and full mobilization begins. Available Swedish forces quickly rally, putting up fierce resistance to the Pact advance, fighting hard to buy time for reserve units to gear up and for outside assistance to arrive. Swedish defense forces outnumber the Soviet invaders on the ground, but the latter have the advantage of being able to use tactical nuclear weapons without worrying about the Swedes answering in-kind. Consequently, concentrated Swedish mechanized formations of regimental strength or greater are decimated before they can mount large-scale counterattacks. The Swedish military is forced to fight a more guerilla-style campaign…

*Pre-war strategic plans called for this force to mount an airborne and amphibious invasion of Denmark’s Jutland Peninsula.


Adventure Handout: Death of a Division- Escape from Escape from Örebro

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread....Death+Division

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