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-   -   USAR Combat Divisions, 1962 (Twilight 1964) (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=5520)

mcchordsage 07-12-2018 09:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Very early draft of the Air National Guard order of battle. It includes assigned aircraft and home stations, along with the tactical reorganization proposed for adoption in 1962.

mcchordsage 07-23-2018 06:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Slowly but surely tackling everything I intend to. This may be the last major update. That's been said before, I know, but for the first time there's no real big gaping hole of research I feel hasn't been covered so barring any glaring errors I've missed thus far this will be the final version of the OOB. The Air National Guard OOB has some more work and supplementary pieces to go in it, however that's a much less demanding piece of work overall.

I still have no intention of covering the Regular Army Divisions' makeup. You can find those OOBs on Wikipedia in a lot of cases that are as accurate as what I do, mostly, so I don't feel the need to reprint that. This whole business has a sisyphean feeling anyway.

New is an appendix covering non-divisional Regular Army units, their locations, assignments if known to non-divisional HQ units, and some clean-up to other parts (No one commented on Fort Carson, CA? I'm shocked). Included is a neat potential starting point for a squad, the uniquely organized 2nd Battle Group, 31st Infantry stationed at the Aviation School in Fort Rucker.

mcchordsage 07-25-2018 09:51 PM

As soon as I can get my account back (email address change missed this one apparently), I plan on seeing about putting this out as either community content or a system-less item on DriveThruRPG.

I've already got a draft version that strips out the images without attribution or that would cause potential rights issues, added a few more, revised text and informational errors, done some more proofing, to improve the quality for sale.

Problem is, I've got no idea if there's any interest in anyone purchasing this, or the future Air National Guard supplement, so if it's 'too much work' to get it on DriveThru then it probably won't happen. In that case the super-final "Export Edition" will end up here for free.

mcchordsage 08-01-2018 07:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Rather than bother with doing my tax info for a product that's not going to sell, here's the furthest development of the project, including some new Special Forces, Transportation, Engineer, and Artillery units. Also has the most thorough editing I can give and a complete renumbering.

hell-fish 10-01-2018 03:10 PM

Hey. You kinda inspired me last winter while I was in between jobs and needed a creative outlet. I started working on a Twilight 1964 guidebook and US Army guide based in part on your research and the old Twilight 1964 topic.

I'm posting them here because I haven't found time to do more than tinker with them lately, and because I'm pretty sure I'm lost in my own head with 'em. If you're curious, take a gander.

I mostly just updated old Twilight 1964 guide (tried to bring more authenticity to the military parts and I've reviewed/renewed about half of the U.S. states so far - some of the descriptions were a little too ridiculous, and some of the landmarks mentioned didn't exist in 1964). Google docs link here.

The Twilight 1964 American Military Handbook was just a means for me to nerd out on vehicles (and, eventually, weapons). I never played TW2K when I was a kid, but I absolutely loved the US, Soviet and NATO vehicle guides and tried to replicate that feel here, and to make it look like period U.S. Army Standard Military Vehicle Characteristics Data Sheets (I have the 1963 version for inspiration).

Both come with color plates, and both are incomplete. Just waiting for a second wind, I suppose.

Hope you like, and I'm happy to hear any critiques if you've got the time and inclination.

http://i68.tinypic.com/27y1glg.jpg

Ewan 10-03-2018 10:24 AM

Had a quick look at the files before I left for work and I was really impressed.
At the weekend I'll have a more in depth look but first impressions it looked very useful.
Will you be creating a NATO or Soviet Vehicle Handbook as I wouldn't mind the details of some British vehicles.

mcchordsage 10-03-2018 11:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 79497)
Hey. You kinda inspired me last winter while I was in between jobs and needed a creative outlet. I started working on a Twilight 1964 guidebook and US Army guide based in part on your research and the old Twilight 1964 topic.

I'm posting them here because I haven't found time to do more than tinker with them lately, and because I'm pretty sure I'm lost in my own head with 'em. If you're curious, take a gander.

I mostly just updated old Twilight 1964 guide (tried to bring more authenticity to the military parts and I've reviewed/renewed about half of the U.S. states so far - some of the descriptions were a little too ridiculous, and some of the landmarks mentioned didn't exist in 1964). Google docs link here.

The Twilight 1964 American Military Handbook was just a means for me to nerd out on vehicles (and, eventually, weapons). I never played TW2K when I was a kid, but I absolutely loved the US, Soviet and NATO vehicle guides and tried to replicate that feel here, and to make it look like period U.S. Army Standard Military Vehicle Characteristics Data Sheets (I have the 1963 version for inspiration).

Both come with color plates, and both are incomplete. Just waiting for a second wind, I suppose.

Hope you like, and I'm happy to hear any critiques if you've got the time and inclination.

http://i68.tinypic.com/27y1glg.jpg

Nice! I like it! My own, very unfinished, location and unit guide is attached here (as an outgrowth of what I'd done above, plus a few notes on British and American heavy tank variants/expedients). I'd be happy to discuss anything, but you've made a much more finished set of books already!

Suggestion for the book is to include the M59 APC, as you mention it already. It was in wide usage by the early 60s with, as you note, the M75s mostly lingering in some of the National Guard tac carrier and armored cav units. The M8 was also used by M52 and M44 armored field artillery units as ammo carriers. (M52's hands-down my favorite vehicle of the era.)

hell-fish 10-04-2018 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan (Post 79514)
Had a quick look at the files before I left for work and I was really impressed.
At the weekend I'll have a more in depth look but first impressions it looked very useful.
Will you be creating a NATO or Soviet Vehicle Handbook as I wouldn't mind the details of some British vehicles.

I'd like to eventually do a Soviet Vehicle Handbook for sure, but I think a NATO (or rest of world?) guide might be best left to someone with more insight. I can probably fake my way through the NATO units in 1962-1964, but I doubt it would hold up to any scrutiny.

I'd like to flesh out the war in Europe a bit more, but again, I'd be pretty out of my depth in the details. I can nuke anything, but I'm sure there's someone better suited to telling you about what's been vaporized. I can certainly help as needed, of course.

Now that I think about it, I'd love to figure out what happened to Algeria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcchordsage (Post 79521)
Nice! I like it! My own, very unfinished, location and unit guide is attached here (as an outgrowth of what I'd done above, plus a few notes on British and American heavy tank variants/expedients). I'd be happy to discuss anything, but you've made a much more finished set of books already!

Suggestion for the book is to include the M59 APC, as you mention it already. It was in wide usage by the early 60s with, as you note, the M75s mostly lingering in some of the National Guard tac carrier and armored cav units. The M8 was also used by M52 and M44 armored field artillery units as ammo carriers. (M52's hands-down my favorite vehicle of the era.)

I'm amused we both killed off the Cuban expeditionary forces.

I'm in no way beholden to my own unit locations. I was trying to aim for flavor and diversity for the vehicle plates as much as pragmatism and TW2k canon. I built the story of the war around what the original author had and in places I thought I could add some flavor - the New Americans were patterned after a redneck version of ISIS, for example, after I added KKK markings to an M44 howitzer and wanted a backstory for it.

And the M59 APC is definitely on the list of things to do. I intend to be pretty comprehensive with the armored vehicles, though softskins will probably get bunched together in individual examples (I doubt all the various 2.5-ton trucks are so dissimilar in game terms). I didn't know the M8 was also used in SP units - I only saw it referenced with the Skysweepers and as prime movers for the heavy field pieces. The M8 is actually my favorite vehicle of the period, though I can't explain why.

mcchordsage 10-04-2018 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 79526)
I'd like to eventually do a Soviet Vehicle Handbook for sure, but I think a NATO (or rest of world?) guide might be best left to someone with more insight. I can probably fake my way through the NATO units in 1962-1964, but I doubt it would hold up to any scrutiny.

I'd like to flesh out the war in Europe a bit more, but again, I'd be pretty out of my depth in the details. I can nuke anything, but I'm sure there's someone better suited to telling you about what's been vaporized. I can certainly help as needed, of course.

Now that I think about it, I'd love to figure out what happened to Algeria.



I'm amused we both killed off the Cuban expeditionary forces.

I'm in no way beholden to my own unit locations. I was trying to aim for flavor and diversity for the vehicle plates as much as pragmatism and TW2k canon. I built the story of the war around what the original author had and in places I thought I could add some flavor - the New Americans were patterned after a redneck version of ISIS, for example, after I added KKK markings to an M44 howitzer and wanted a backstory for it.

And the M59 APC is definitely on the list of things to do. I intend to be pretty comprehensive with the armored vehicles, though softskins will probably get bunched together in individual examples (I doubt all the various 2.5-ton trucks are so dissimilar in game terms). I didn't know the M8 was also used in SP units - I only saw it referenced with the Skysweepers and as prime movers for the heavy field pieces. The M8 is actually my favorite vehicle of the period, though I can't explain why.

Yeah, the Cuban force is gone in my timeline as well and the Gulf Coast units are pretty badly fractured. There's a lot of scattered notes about the US situation I've never really developed into prose (The US Army in Yugoslavia, the domestic situation, etc.) and may well never get around to.

I've got no arguments with how you did it! Very good work.

Yeah, the panoply of 2 1/2 and 5 ton truck variants is better left to the GM if they really want to drag them all in. In my (needlessly extensive) research into the M52 units, they were apparently supposed to be one per section to serve the ammo needs of the firing units for resupply although I doubt the distribution ever got that high.

hell-fish 10-11-2018 11:10 AM

I'm interested in generally anything Cold War (especially if it is appropriate to the Berlin/Cuban Missile Crisis time frame). Any recommendations on M52 FMs or TMs?

Also, have you ever come across any Marine Corps Fleet Marine Force manuals from the 50s or 60s? I've been told that, for example, a Marine Corps tank battalion in the 60s had two M48 companies and an M103 company, along with a 9-tank flame platoon. I have no sources to verify this, nor do I know if there's a difference between a divisional tank battalion and a "force" tank battalion. I'd also love to know how the Marines trained with the M103. I've never seen an official publication - Marine Corps or Army - on the operations and tactics of that tank.

As an update to the American Military Handbook for TW64, I've overhauled the vehicle graphics entirely. I decided that because the line drawings are so wildly inconsistent in quality, that photographs of plastic models lightly edited and turned into black and white provide a more consistent and appealing look (plus, this is designed to be a miniatures game anyways, right?) All line drawings are now out with very few exceptions, and I started working on aircraft entries.

For example, here's the F-100D/F:

http://i66.tinypic.com/bi48kl.jpg

And the M60:

http://i66.tinypic.com/alitnc.png

Ewan 10-11-2018 03:04 PM

These might be useful
https://archive.org/details/FM17-15_201212/page/n0

https://archive.org/details/FM7-151965/page/n0

https://archive.org/details/military...tab=collection

Ewan 10-11-2018 03:11 PM

https://ospreypublishing.com/m103-heavy-tank-1950-74

Might be a good place to start for some details

mcchordsage 10-11-2018 04:09 PM

You want the 1959-1962 manual series designed for the ROCID/ROTAD organizations. The squad/platoon/company/battle groups have different TO&Es than the post-'63 ROAD units.

This is a Google Drive folder with FMs and some issues of Infantry magazine from the period.

This includes:
-Ordnance Corps stock and data on all items they handle circa 1961
-Australian Pentropic organization
-Infantry, Artillery, and support unit FMs for divisions/non-divisional units. See this thread for my already posted material on the forgotten fact the Army decided APCs belonged to the Transportation Corps not the Infantry in this time period.
-5th MEB's table of organization for the projected Cuban invasion.

As for the USMC, while my work has focused mostly on USMCR units I do have a magazine from the Marine Corps University talking about the USMC's ready afloat forces in the Med through the 60s and 70s.

Short answer to that question is that there was a divisional tank battalion assigned permanently to each USMC division, each had a permanently assigned assigned heavy tank company with M103s. The Marines used them like big medium tanks, IIRC. The Force battalion was formed irregularly. It was a temporary formation to be employed with the FMF units afloat, which were ad-hoc units in this time period.

The Army, on the other hand, had separate doctrine for their (one) heavy tank battalion(s), to be used to assault formations or fight Soviet heavy tanks. One of the suppositions in my is a program to field convert M103A1s to the diesel M60 engines when available.

USMC also had Ontos (lightly armored, tracked fighting vehicles with six 106mm recoilless rifles strapped to the outside) equipped Anti-Tank battalions, one per-division.

For those with a British interest, there's the FV4202 and Centurion Action X concepts, revived when time ran out on what would have become the Chieftan.

While the British Army was unable to complete development to deploy their next generation “Main Battle Tank” because of wartime pressures, they were able to execute a substantial rebuilding program for their existing Centurions and new production of a much less audacious “new” tank.

The “Action X” was formally the Centurion Mk. 7/3, a designation that hid the radically redesigned turret applied to these hulls. Armed with the 105 mm L7 gun in a mantletless turret originally intended to be used for researching the new un-named main battle tank, it was instead rushed into production as an incremental improvement for existing stocks of Centurions to improve their lethality and survivability. While originally trialed with the old 20-pounder, production turrets carried the new 105mm gun.

In contrast, the FV4202, known as the “Cohort” or “Super Centurion” was a new design that drew from the older Centurion design, departing widely in an attempt to draw the lines for an improved tank to fight the IS-3. It was half a meter lower in height, with better sloping to its armor, and an even more modern version of the mantletless turret design.

Unfortunately, both of these designs inherited the problems of the older Centurions. They were two thinly armored to face most current Soviet armor, the suspension could be difficult to repair in the field, and even with improved sloping. However, its 105mm L7 gun was an excellent weapon for the time period and would give a good showing in the Twilight War.

There's also my crack at the BAOR's nuclear equipped artillery forces.

24th Missile Regiment, Royal Artillery: Barker Barracks, Paderborn
2 Heavy Battery (8” howitzer)
34 (Seringapatam) Heavy Battery (8” howitzer)
51 Missile Battery (Honest John)
76 Missile Battery (Honest John)
27th Guided Weapons (Corporal) Regiment, Royal Artillery: Napier Barracks, Dortmund
6 (Arcot) Battery
23 (Gibraltar) Battery
39th Missile Regiment, Royal Artillery: Dempsey Barracks, Sennelager
19 (Gibraltar) Missile Battery (Honest John)
36 Missile Battery (Honest John)
75 Heavy Battery (8” M115 howitzer)
169 Heavy Battery (8” M115 howitzer)
47th Guided Weapons (Corporal) Regiment, Royal Artillery: Napier Barracks, Dortmund
3 (Corunna) Battery
4 (Sphinx) Battery
50th Regiment, Royal Artillery: Northumberland Barracks, Menden
15 Missile Battery (Honest John)
21 (Gibraltar 1779-83) Missile Battery (Honest John)
33 Heavy Battery (8” howitzer)
78 Heavy Battery (8” howitzer)

hell-fish 10-12-2018 11:09 AM

These are fantastic, thanks guys.

mcchordsage 10-12-2018 08:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
No problem! The FMs are an interesting look at how the Pentomic organization was supposed to work. I recommend the TRADOC/other source studies on why it didn't stick around as well, for an idea how things may have worked out when Pentomic units actually went into battle.

Speaking of, I happened to get this at Goodwill the other day.

Ewan 10-13-2018 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 79617)

As an update to the American Military Handbook for TW64, I've overhauled the vehicle graphics entirely.

Is there a link to the updated file. Also keep up the good work it's very impressive.

hell-fish 10-14-2018 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan (Post 79624)
Is there a link to the updated file. Also keep up the good work it's very impressive.

I haven't updated the file itself yet. Once I've made some more progress I definitely will. I just added the self-propelled howitzers and most of the trucks I want to include.

hell-fish 10-14-2018 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcchordsage (Post 79623)
No problem! The FMs are an interesting look at how the Pentomic organization was supposed to work. I recommend the TRADOC/other source studies on why it didn't stick around as well, for an idea how things may have worked out when Pentomic units actually went into battle.

Speaking of, I happened to get this at Goodwill the other day.

Heh, I own that in paperback and pdf form.

mcchordsage 10-14-2018 05:35 PM

I've got my own paper copy now.

Nowhere Man 1966 02-09-2019 04:43 PM

Haven't been here in a while, life has gotten in the way but I'm, very impressed with your work on Twilight 1962/64 here. I am for some reason a junkie on the Cuban Missile Crisis as well as JFK's assassination, but I think for the former, it is a personal tie in with me.

My father served in the Signal Corps fro 1955 to 1957 when he went into the Army at 17. He first went to Korea, did some time in Japan and later, White Sand's New Mexico. I even showed him a quonset hut housing radio gear near Camp Casey on Google Earth where is was caption that is was built in 1955, my father said, "I built that." ;) He flew back on one of the first C-130's. In 1962, my mother was worried that my father would have been called up, back then you did you 2 year hitch and then were on 5 years inactive reserve. 1962 was his last year but when he got his final discharge during the Crisis, Mom was relieved.

My mother also served with the USO at the Air Force Reserve and Penna Air National Guard base where at the time she was there, they were flying P-51's although the F-84's were coming in soon.

Where I lived, down the street from me lived the man who later ran the repair shop for the 112th Fighter group. He had oodles of storied to tell, serving from the days of the P-51's to 1993 when the A-7's where taken out of service. I liked one story where during the Cuban Missile Crisis, there was an unidentified blimp on the radar over Canada and they had to scramble the F-102's to intercept out of Pittsburgh. It was found out it was a 4 piston engine plane where after some hand signal waving, it was determined the radio was out. The fighter pilots told the plane to follow them to the nearest CFB base to land for questioning. The plane lost it's electrical system affecting the radio. This could have kicked off WWIII. During that time, they kept the planes on the tarmac ready to go, the electronics were kept on from ground power and the pilots stood by in 8 hour shifts. When one pilot left and the other one took over, he would fire up the jet for 5 or 10 minutes, check things out and then shut the engine down, replace the fuel used and go into the rec area to watch TV and wait.

Again, good work, I love alternate history.

hell-fish 02-24-2019 02:17 PM

I'm still tinkering with this project as I find the time. I'm not done with the US Military guide yet, but I jumped the gun and started working on a Soviet and Warsaw Pact guide.

http://i65.tinypic.com/20szp0l.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/zmb05z.jpg

And some more American stuff:

http://i65.tinypic.com/357khnq.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/21m9lwm.jpg

lordroel 02-25-2019 12:37 PM

Love the drawings of the tanks hell-fish , any pictures of 1962 Berlin brigade tanks (French,British and Americans).

hell-fish 02-26-2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordroel (Post 80910)
Love the drawings of the tanks hell-fish , any pictures of 1962 Berlin brigade tanks (French,British and Americans).

I didn't actually make those... I am using them (currently without permission - the plan is to ask for permission once I've completed enough to show off) from http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/

Here's a British Comet from 1960 in the Berlin Brigade.

And a Chieftain.

Ewan 02-26-2019 03:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by lordroel (Post 80910)
Love the drawings of the tanks hell-fish , any pictures of 1962 Berlin brigade tanks (French,British and Americans).

British Centurion, American M48 and French AMX13 in Berlin October 1962.

Ewan 02-26-2019 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 80911)
And a Chieftain.

The Chieftain is from the early 80s

Ewan 02-26-2019 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 80905)
I'm still tinkering with this project as I find the time. I'm not done with the US Military guide yet, but I jumped the gun and started working on a Soviet and Warsaw Pact guide.

They look excellent, keep up the good work 😊

lordroel 02-27-2019 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan (Post 80912)
British Centurion, American M48 and French AMX13 in Berlin October 1962.

French tanks looks tiny compared to the British and French, did they not have anything heavier in West Berlin.

hell-fish 02-27-2019 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan (Post 80913)
The Chieftain is from the early 80s

Yeah. Still pretty.

hell-fish 02-27-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordroel (Post 80915)
French tanks looks tiny compared to the British and French, did they not have anything heavier in West Berlin.

AMX-30 didn't come out till '65. Before then I think they only had M47s and a few oddballs with AMX-50s hanging around. They were busy with Algeria and Africa for a lot of this time period, and didn't have a lot of money.

lordroel 02-27-2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell-fish (Post 80919)
AMX-30 didn't come out till '65. Before then I think they only had M47s and a few oddballs with AMX-50s hanging around. They were busy with Algeria and Africa for a lot of this time period, and didn't have a lot of money.

Do we know where this photo was taken, was it inside West Berlin.

Ewan 02-27-2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordroel (Post 80920)
Do we know where this photo was taken, was it inside West Berlin.

According to The Tank Museum caption it was.

mcchordsage 02-28-2019 10:03 PM

I'm also still working on my end of things! Just looking at more units earlier today from the South Carolina, PA, Louisiana, and Texas NGs.

While the Chieftan didn't enter service until '66 (Challenger I's early 80s) the British Army was tinkering around with turret redesigns for the Centurion that in my version of the timeline saw wartime production. Mentioned them a couple posts back

The "Action X" was just a new turret on a Centurion Mk. 7 while the FV4202 (I called it the Super Centurion or Cohort, inventive) was a conservative evolution of the Centurion design that was later dropped in favor of the design that became the Chieftan circa 1959. Instead, it ends up being produced instead of more Centurions in my T64 timeline.

https://i.imgur.com/XJMVR8F.jpg
Action X turret in testing.

https://i.imgur.com/EQZ0tKq.jpg
FV4202 prototype

I'm glad everyone's still interested! My computer was hors de combat for most of December and January so I'm just getting around to catching up on things. (Also had to write about ten thousand words for a magazine article)

mcchordsage 02-28-2019 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan (Post 80912)
British Centurion, American M48 and French AMX13 in Berlin October 1962.

French Army in West Germany during the border crisis was the 1st Division, 3rd Division, and 13th Mechanized Brigade. The French government had also moved the 7th Light Armored Division and 11th Light Infantry Division to Europe and made them available to SAUCER as reserve units.

Front line units in Germany were pretty badly under strength on armor. According to a US Army report they had 43 AMX-SS-11s (AMX-13 with a rack of four SS-11 AT missiles officially called the AMX-13 T75 (Char Lance SS-11)), 50% of their TO&E, and only 45% of their table APCs (AMX-VTT and -VCI). The 1st Division was heavy armor and had some of the early AMX-30s plus M47s, plus plenty of AMX-13s to go around.

mcchordsage 03-08-2019 04:57 PM

Moved over to Navy materials. If anyone's interested in diesel subs in WWIII, got some good info on the GUPPY and Fleet Snorkel programs, seaplane refueling sub projects, and Naval Reserve Training Subs.

Matt Wiser 03-09-2019 10:29 PM

Would love to see the Navy in this one...especially if the two nuclear-powered surface ships are still going: namely USS Enterprise (CVAN-65) and USS Long Beach (CGN-9) Enterprise's air wing would have flown strikes into Cuba in support of the invasion, for starters.

mcchordsage 04-09-2019 10:35 PM

At least in my timeline, the naval and ground troops of the Cuban invasion force were pretty much whipped out as an effective fighting force. Survivors have straggled back to south Florida but the Enterprise is an unsailable wreck. The Navy enclave at Key West has been using her reactor to power their facility. Independence is damaged but repairable, there's just no facilities to do it. Essex was sunk. Long Beach and Bainbridge are still around. Long Beach spent most of the war in the North Atlantic but is in Norfolk now. Bainbridge transited to the Pacific. They both serve as couriers/HQs for US Naval forces.

Other notes:
Indonesia had begun taking delivery of 12 Whiskey-class submarines in 1962, as well as two Russian sub tenders. Some sources state 1967, but most state that the sub tenders were turned over in the summer of 1962 with the submarines beginning delivery in January. One tender was a slightly older Project 233K and the other a newer Don-class (with some more actual pictures of the latter in service). Contemporary photos (possibly) show as many as eight subs may have been delivered by year end 1962.

The US Navy had assigned various diesel submarines, mostly unmodified Gato and Balao-class boats, to naval installations across the country as training facilities for the Naval Reserve. By the end of the decade most were permanently rendered unable to dive, in 1962 they were almost all ready for conversion to operational boats. Batteries were sometimes removed, or they were locked out of being able to dive. Here's a list I've compiled of stations and subs in 1962:
  • USS Batfish (AGSS-310), Naval Station Algiers, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Billfish (SS-286), South Boston Annex, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Bowfin (SS-287), Seattle, WA, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Cabrilla (SS-288), Houston, TX, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Cabezon (SS-334), Tacoma Reserve Center on Hylebos Waterway, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Cero (SS-225), Detroit Naval Armory, unmodified Gato-class
  • USS Cobia (SS-245), Milwaukee Naval Reserve Center, unmodified Gato-class
  • USS Cod (SS-224), Cleveland, OH, unmodified Gato-class
  • USS Dentuda (SS-385), Hunters Point Naval Shipyard, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Drum (SS-228), Washington Navy Yard, unmodified Gato-class
  • USS Guavina (AOSS-362), Fort McHenry, MD, Gato-class modified as a seaplane fuel tanker
  • USS Hake (SS-256) Philadelphia Navy Yard, unmodified Gato-class
  • USS Lionfish (SS-298), Marine Corps Reserve Pier, Providence, RI, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Loggerhead (SS-374), Portland, OR, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Manta (AGSS-299), Submarine Base New London, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Parche (SS-384), Alameda, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Roncodor (SS-301), Long Beach Naval Station, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Sea Dog (SS-401), Derby Wharf, Salem, MA, unmodified Balao-class
  • USS Sealion (APSS-315), Portsmouth Navy Yard, Balao-class modified into UDT/Marine transport
  • USS Silversides (SS-236), Chicago Naval Armory, unmodified Salmon-class
  • USS Trepang (AGSS-412), Mare Island Navy Yard, unmodified Balao-class

Some of the units assigned to Reserve Submarines:
  • Reserve Submarine Division 3-23, Brooklyn Navy Yard
  • Reserve Submarine Division 3-55, Brooklyn Navy Yard
  • Reserve Submarine Division 4-37, Philadelphia Naval Shipyard
  • Reserve Submarine Division 4-92, Cleveland, OH
  • Reserve Submarine Division 5-7, Fort McHenry, MD
  • Reserve Submarine Division 8-94, Dickson Gun Plant, Houston, TX
  • Reserve Submarine Division 8-95, Dickson Gun Plant, Houston, TX
  • Reserve Submarine Division 9-227, Milwaukee Naval Reserve Center
  • Reserve Submarine Division 12-9, Alameda Reserve Training Center

mcchordsage 05-26-2019 11:47 PM

Following up on the, ehem, Navy boat, here's the 1960 Landing Party Manual, the last publication from the US Navy on sailors operating as ground forces, their organization, and equipment. There was apparently a 1962 revision, but as most things, if it isn't very early in the year/I can't find it, 1960-1961 material suffices.

https://archive.org/details/OPNAVP34...yManual1960Red

mcchordsage 05-28-2019 08:01 PM

To go with the Corps area map, the US Navy districts in 1962.
https://i.imgur.com/qfWDJIv.jpg

And current ratings in 1962.
https://i.imgur.com/1VXXZvT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/e7VPr4J.jpg

mcchordsage 05-28-2019 10:51 PM

USNR Units from 1961-1962, Aviation and called-up Selected Reserve ships

HS-741: NAS Jacksonville
HS-742: NAS Jacksonville
HS-743: NAS Jacksonville
HS-871: NAS Oakland HSS-1
HS-872: NAAS Ream Field HSS-1
HS-912: NAS South Weymouth
HU-731: NAS Grosse Ile HUP
HU-733: NAS Grosse Ile
HU-751: NAS Lakehurst HUP
HU-812: NAS Minneapolis HUP

VA-672: NAS Atlanta
VA-891: NAS Seattle

VF-725: NAS Glenview
VF-727: NAS Glenview
VF-791: NARTU Memphis
VF-873: NAS Alameda A4D

VP-672: NAS Atlanta
VP-741: NAS Jacksonville
VP-791: NARTU Memphis
VP-872: NAS Alameda
VP-873: NAS Oakland
VP-875: NAS Oakland P2V5F
VP-876: NAS Oakland P2V
VP-881: NAS Olathe
VP-911: NAS South Weymouth
VP-913: NAS South Weymouth

VR-742: NAS Jacksonville
VR-872: NAS Alameda
VR-873

VS-741: NAS Jacksonville
VS-753: NAS Lakehurst
VS-873: NAS Alameda
VS-875: NAS Alameda S2F
VS-892: NAS Seattle S2F

Air Wing Staff 70: NAS Dallas
Air Wing Staff 72: NAS Glenview

DERs transferred to Selected Reserve September 1961
USS Haverfield (DER-393): Seattle, WA
USS Koiner (DER-331): San Francisco, CA
USS Wilhoite (DER-397): San Francisco, CA
USS Lansing (DER-388): Long Beach, CA
USS Forster (DER-334): Long Beach, CA

Haverfield, Lansing, and Forster will enter Group Two of the Reserve traing program; they will be manned by "nucleus crews" of Regular Navy men in addition to the local Reservists. These ships will be available to the Fleet with a minimum of delay. Wilhoite and Koiner will be placed in Group One, and will have larger crews of Regular Navy personnel; they will be ready for immediate recall.

Selected Reserve Units Called to Duty in October 1961
USS Miller (DD-535)
USS Parle (DE-708)*
USS Tills (DE-748)
USS Hood (DD-655)*
USS Remey (DD-688)* **
USS DeLong (DE-684)
USS Thaddeus Parker (DE-369)
USS Albert T. Harris (DE-447)
USS Coates (DE-685)
USS McNair (DD-679)
USS Kidd (DD-661)
USS J. Douglas Blackwood (DE-219)
USS Snowden (DE-246)
USS Bearss (DD-654)*
USS Roberts (DE-749)
USS Loeser (DE-680)
USS Robert F. Keller (DE-419)
USS Darby (DE-218)
USS Hunt (DD-674)*
USS Robinson (DD-562)
USS Greenwood (DE-679)**
USS Tweedy (DE-532)
USS Wren (DD-568)*
USS Huse (DE-145)*
USS Crow (DE-252)
USS Woodson (DE-359)
USS Daniel A. Joy (DE-585)
USS Tingey (DD-539)
USS Colahan (DD-658)
USS Marsh (DE-699)
USS Vammen (DE-644)
USS Wiseman (DE-667)
USS Laws (DD-558)
USS Walton (DE-361)
USS Edmonds (DE-406)
USS Alvin C. Cockrell (DE-366)
USS Watts (DD-567)
USS Whitehurst (DE-634)
USS Charles E. Brannon (DE-446)**
USS McGinty (DE-365)
USS Plover MSC(O)-33

VP-661 (P2V Neptune)
VP-741 (P2V Neptune)
VP-832 (P2V Neptune)
VP-872 (P2V Neptune)
VP-933 (P2V Neptune)

VS-721 (S2F Tracker)
VS-733 (S2F Tracker)
VS-751 (S2F Tracker)
VS-771 (S2F Tracker)
VS-772 (S2F Tracker)
VS-821 (S2F Tracker)
VS-837 (S2F Tracker)
VS-861 (S2F Tracker): NAS Norfolk
VS-872 (S2F Tracker)
VS-873 (S2F Tracker)
VS-891 (S2F Tracker)
VS-915 (S2F Tracker)
VS-935 (S2F Tracker)

*=Scheduled for repairs and overhaul, targeted to be ready by November 1st
**=Battle 'E' for 1961

Titles of USNR Shore Units 1961-1962
BuShips Company
Supply Company
Hospital Corps Division
Naval Weapons Training Unit
Surface Division (Large)
Surface Division (Medium)
Construction Battalion/SeaBee Division
Electronics Division
Naval Security Group Division
Submarine Division
Intelligence Division
Reserve Research Company
Public Relations Company
Ship Activation, Maintenance, and Repair Division
Harbor Defense Division

Units were numbered with District Number - Serial number of unit in that district, for example: Harbor Defense Division 5-1 was located in Norfolk, VA.

mcchordsage 02-04-2020 10:01 PM

Some more Naval Reserve aviation unit info. Why am I still working on this two years and four months after starting? No idea at all really, other than sometimes material comes up that feels like it should be here.

Corrections to Duty Stations and Aircraft Type, US Navy Reserve Squadrons called to Active Duty 1961-1962
From Appendix 14, Dictionary of American Naval Aviation Squadrons Volume 2
Naval Aeronautical Organization Notice 1/1/61

VP-661: Howard Air Force Base, Panama (P2V-5F)
VP-721: NAS Quonset Point (P2V-6)
VP-791: NAS Norfolk (P2V-5FS)
VP-811: NAS Brunswick (P2V-4)
VP-831: NAS Patuxent River (P2V-5F/P2V-5FS)
VP-832: NAS New York (P2V-5F)
VP-872: NAS Barber's Point
VP-883: NAS Chincoteague (P2V-6)
VP-911: NAS South Weymouth (P2V-5F/P2V-6)
VP-933: NAS Willow Grove (P2V-5F)

VA-672: AD-5 Skyraider
VA-891: AD Skyraider

USNR Units Equipped with tactical nuclear Low Altitude Bombing System aircraft
Naval Aeronautical Organization Notice 1/1/61

NAS Glenview
VMA-543: F9F-8B
VMA-611: F9F-8B**

NAS Los Alamitos
VMF-134: F9F-8B

NAS New Orleans
VA-821: F9F-8B
VA-822: F9F-8B
VMA-143: F9F-8B**

NAS New York
VA-831: FJ-4B

NAS Olathe
VA-881: F9F-8B
VA-882: F9F-8B**

USNR/USMCR Fighter Squadrons and AD-5 Skyraider Attack Squadrons
Naval Aeronautical Organization Notice 1/1/61

NAS Dallas
VF-701: FJ-3M*
VF-702: FJ-4*
VMF-111: FJ-3*
VMF-413: F11F-1**

NAS Glenview
VF-725: F9F-8

NAS Grosse Ile
VA-731: AD-5/AD-5N

NAS Minneapolis
VMA-213: AD-5

NAS Memphis
VF-791: FJ-4
VF-792: FJ-4**
VMF-124: FJ-4
VMF-221: FJ-4**

NAS New York
VMF-313: FJ-3M/FJ-3
VMF-131: FJ-4**

NAS Oakland
VF-873: F2H-3/4
VF-876: F2H-3/4
VF-879: F11F-1**

NAS Olathe
VMF-113: F11F-1**
VMF-215: F9F-8

NAS South Weymouth
VMA-322: FJ-3

NAS Willow Grove
VF-931: FJ-3

Training Squadrons with Fighter Aircraft for Transition Training
Naval Aeronautical Organization Notice 1/1/61

NAAS Chase Field, TX
VT-24: 21 F9F-8B
VT-25: 21 F9F-8B
VT-26: 32 F11F

NAS Glynco, GA
CIC School: 40 FJ-4

NAAS Kingsville, GA
VT-21: 22 F9F-8B
VT-22: 21 F9F-8B
VT-23: 36 F11F

*=Not specifically listed, conjecture
**=Drawn from available aircraft in Naval Air Training Command


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