No actually rounding out means things like adding a CID platoon to the MP battalion that Frank was going to have there or adding some reinforcements from Europe (a la what is going to the RDF), in this case a specific unit as well as having auxiliary groups and things Frank forgot like the Kenyan police units that are used for internal security that would be backing up the army.

Plus filling out info on stuff like the Army unit flying Skyraiders (that was Frank's idea originally I am fleshing it out) and the US recruiting from trapped Americans and others in the area to try to get replacements.

Keep in mind the US would be having ops in Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Somalia and the Sudan. Its not just one country but a large area. And I am including information on the whole area up to and including Djibouti - not a ton of detail but enough that you can use it to run a campaign if you wish.

I am bringing the M8 Bulldog "officially" into the game as well - should be there for sure. And incorporating real world events that post date V1 of the game but fit into the timeline for sure - like the Rwandan genocide as an event.

And fixing the French deployments in Djibouti to match reality and correct the error in the RDF where they left out a whole unit that has been there since the 1960's.

There will be references and material there from other GDW modules which I will give credit to - for instance I will be replicating the charts in the back of the RDF sourcebook (and citing that module as where they came from) for those who dont own that particular sourcebook for character creation.

Probably looking at 50+ pages by the time its all said and done - basically my idea of what Frank would have published if GDW hadnt abandoned the V1 timeline and went to MERC instead.

"Officially"?
Can anyone who was not involved in the original development honestly claim anything they do to be "official"?
FYI, the M8 is already in 2.x which is really just an evolution of what started in 1.0. It first appeared in the Eastern Europe Sourcebook and later in the 2.2 BYB. Also, it's a Buford, not Bulldog. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...und/m8-ags.htm also, http://www.pmulcahy.com/best_stuff_t...never_were.htm
See my comments elsewhere for possible explanation why they may be absent and not necessarily "missed".
Err, what?
T2K was not abandoned in favour of anything. Merc was simply an alternate universe using the same timeframe and rules as T2K. There were plenty of books published after Merc came out, and 2.0 itself came before Merc.

actually yes we can claim it - notice I said "officially" i.e. in quotes

as in fan canon

and in the absence of any new information being officially put out thats as official as it gets

I will be sending the sourcebook to Far Future as well to see if they are interested in publishin it - who knows maybe they will

you dont have to use it Leg - frankly if no one does then they dont - thats their choice - but at least it will be out there for anyone who does want to use it.

OLEFIN, I published a draft a few years back and Frank came on here and said as far as i'm concerned this is Cannon now! Chico saved the post. It still did not sway leg. Just write whatt you think is cool send it to chico for edit. He is a world class guy I would give my life for. We know each other on a personal level and eat lunch together when i'm in town. Talk too him and he will make you better. He is the man in my opinion. I learned a long time ago fighting on here does no good and people are keyboard commando's ...turn the other cheeck edit before you send and treat all with respect even if they dont do it too you and you will go a long way here.

"We" huh? So who else are you speaking on behalf of then?

I've tried so hard not to comment on any of your posts lately Olefin but mate, I'm calling you out on this one. Your ego is musular well beyond the point of having a positive self image.

I'll be sticking with Raellus' take on Kenya, thanks very much. You've got a good head for analysis Olefin and you're a pretty good writer but the way you've barged into this forum and (it seems like) set out to deliberately piss people off, I wouldn't touch any of your source material with a 10 foot pole. You're older than me so I'm surprised you haven't learned that sometimes you'll get further with people if you take a diplomatic approach. PMs be damned. If you're going to constantly mark your territory in open forum I'm abandoning all restraint with you.

You say "Far Future" as if it's still an extant publishing company... rather than a legal entity existing solely to hold the rights to properties on which all work is being held in indefinite abeyance.

Do you have any prior experience in dealing with publishing companies, whether in this "industry" (read: "subsidized hobby") or otherwise?

- C.

we - as in we's like Chico with what he has done with the DC working group, Mr. Mulcahy with the great work he has done, etc..

on things like the various guides that are fan canon that have been published on the Mexican, Pole and Czech Armies

like the Survivors Guide to the UK that Rainbow is working on

they are as "official" as it can get unless we can get someone interested in doing official publishing again on the game

as for Far Future - as Chico pointed out to me they still own the rights to the game - as such I think I have to at least email them and credit them as the people who own the rights on the sourcebook to keep everything on the up and up. And you never know - maybe one day they may decide to do something with Twilight 2000.

Oh and Targan - my source material for Kenya is the posts that Frank Frey put up on various threads here as to notes for that area. So if you dont want to touch it with a ten foot pole then you have to reject Raellus as well since its the same material he used to build what he has.

As for comments on my ego and what I post I have talked to one of the other moderators here and been told that there is no issue with what I have done so far.

And yes I am new here - but boards need new blood to stimulate discussion and new threads. As for your other comments Targan I will follow the board policy and make no reply to them.

Get back to me after Mr Frey has returned to this forum and publicly given your work his endorsement as he did with Raellus' work. You didn't even have to decency to suggest collaborating with Raellus, you just put forward your newly written work as an alternative product. Yeah, you're going to win a whole bunch of friends that way, for sure.

Actually what I am doing and what Raellus is doing are alternate versions of Kenya and thus both represent ways that Kenya can be looked at.

He has taken one approach and I have taken another.

I am looking at a wider area and a different US approach than he is. Both are based on what Frank put up here as his notes as to the base units and the enemy units. From there they diverge into different approaches.

And when the time comes to have it ready I will send it to Frank Frey and see what he says and will wecome his comments. And also Raellus comments as well as those of others here. I have already made changes based on the few things I have posted about it from comments and input.

Simonmark6 has helped a lot with it with his great idea for the British Lions nd I will fully credit him for that. And Raellus idea of a Tanzanian invasion will also be credited by me as its a great idea,done differently by both of us, which is great - the more ideas the better.

As for my saying its official - Raellus's Kenya is also official. So is anyone else who comes up with a good idea for Kenya. In lieu of a publishing authority to say what he real timeline or real module is all are equally official.

Some may like my version, some may like Raellus, some may like neither or combine both into something new.

Hopefully both of them will find acceptance and maybe will be used for campaigns in the future.

And I am not here to win friends, just discuss the game. So far this forum has been a great place to be. Because of it I am playing the game again as of this week after a long absence.

That is painfully obvious to us all.

"That is painfully obvious to us all. "

Since when did you represent the views of everyone on the forum Leg.

LAW said nothing of the sort that I am doing anything wrong here. So have others. Obviously some dont feel as you do.

Perhaps you should start listening to the Moderators then, hmm?

I have Leg - I was told directly by a moderator this afternoon that what I was posting was per board policy and there was no issue at all with any of the threads I had posted or in my approach to the board.

So yes I have listened to a moderator.

A little bit of oversensitivity goes a long way towards bruised feelings all around, whether one is new or an old hand.

I agree that some fresh ideas are an excellent thing. Many of the people who used to provide new material, like me, are too occupied with other responsibilities to do much writing. (How I'd love to get back to "The Storm in Germany"!) It's good to have some new voices and new ideas.

That much said, we all ought to have a look at how James conducts himself. His ideas are well-considered and well-presented. He accepts feedback graciously. He's willing to modify his work to reflect feedback. He shows a positive attitude. It's really an impressive show. I wish we'd had him in the old days when we were trying to build a common vision.

It's fine not to like certain aspects of the published material. The Howling Wilderness horse is dead, my friends. Those of us who don’t dig Howling Wilderness don’t require further convincing that there are problems with it. Those of us who prefer Howling Wilderness aren’t amenable to new arguments that it needs fixing, given all of the discussion that has taken place on the subject over the years. Certainly, those who prefer Howling Wilderness more-or-less as it is aren’t going to change their minds when presented with an argument salted with “That’s stupid”. There’s plenty of room for a factual review of the holes in the timeline, disappearing reinforcements, and the like without anybody’s feelings getting involved.

Everyone has their feelings about Howling Wilderness and the published materials. I have a wife and two young children, so I get plenty of drama at home. When I’m teaching, I have classrooms filled with tweens, so I get plenty of drama at work. I keep the company of men on the Internet to avoid the drama. Let’s not get spun up over whose ideas are more logically consistent or more likely to win favor from Frank Frey. In all likelihood, Frank is steering clear of us because he doesn’t need the drama, either.

I suspect everyone here picks, chooses, and modifies as necessary. So what if your game strays from canon a bit. Suppose it makes sweeping changes to canon. It's a game. If a good time is had by all, who cares?

I am sorry for dragging his name into this. That was my pride getting in the way of my good sense.

I just wanted to remind people I'd done a Kenya piece. It's been a while since I've done anything else with it and I wanted to maybe dust it off and make some improvements. Considering the tone on the forum these past couple of days, my timing, it seems, was pretty poor.

I in no way intend to drag Frank Frey into anything over whose version of anything is more canon than any other. If anything just wanted to show it to him and see what he thinks and ask if I need to make changes to follow his orginal guidelines better.

Cant wait to see more work on your version of Kenya Raellus.

That's bit of a misrepresentation but meh, whatever. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
The situation is simple. Create what you like, post it for review if you want, but please don't try and pass it off as definitive and "canon" without being able to back it up with verifiable evidence.
Sometimes other people can see holes the size of a truck in an argument. That simply means that if the writer wants it to "conform with canon" they just need to address the issues raised and tighten their work up a bit. Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes. A second set of eyes looking it over can only be a good thing.

With all due respect to Mr. Frey and his work, I'm not certain he has any more authority than anyone else does to declare anything "canon." Unless he's speaking as a duly-authorized representative of Far Future Enterprises - of which I have seen no evidence - he has the exact same status as any other former writer who published under contract to a company and has since moved on to other tasks.

(I would be interested in knowing if he was an in-house writer or a 1099 freelancer, though. The former would presumably make him somewhat more informed about the design intent and long-term company strategy regarding the T2k line, and I have a head full of questions on those issues.)

Olefin, I'll rephrase my question to you: do you have any familiarity with how the publishing industry - RPG or otherwise - operates today?

- C.

Perhaps this needs some clarification. I never suggested that Frank Frey has declared (on this forum or elsewhere) that anything written by anyone that wasn't part of the original V1, V2 or V2.2 published material + Challenge Mag articles was canon. I said he endorsed Raellus' work, basically saying that he felt it was very much in keeping with what he had intended for the final, published version of his never-published Kenyan sourcebook.

Also, the recent strong disagreements around here seem to being mis-characterised as a canon vs non-canon argument. It's not. Even strongly pro-canon advocates on this forum have repeatedly stated that they don't have a problem with anyone running any of their campaigns as they see fit. Canon games, non-canon games, all fine, each to their own. The arguments are about what is and is not canon (which is really only of concern for those who prefer to stick to canon) and having certain opinions rammed down others' throats.

My main gripe concerns the methods of delivery of certain opinions, and the complete lack of respect for the status quo that existed until not so many weeks ago. Old wounds have been opened, sensibilities have been offended, and for what? Seriously, how hard is it to display just a little bit more sensitivity, particularly after gentle warnings were clearly spelled out early in the piece?

Please, someone let me know if what I'm writing here makes no sense and I'll scuttle off to some place where it does.

Makes perfect sense and sums up the situation succinctly.

No I dont have that knowledge but I would love to see if we can get that knowledge. A long time ago I submitted a couple of ideas to Dragon Magazine about an idea I had called the undead hunter. We went back and forth working on it as something for publication but I lost interest when I started college and had a lot more pressing things to do (like study for instance)

Frankly seeing the work that has been presented here and on other sites by the members of this board we would have quite a case to present to Far Future of the ability to create new canon works for them to sell even if only as web only pdf sales.

In that case, my first advice to you is this: if you really want to write for publication, enroll in an undergraduate English class on grammar and mechanics. Regardless of the strength of a writer's ideas, few publishers, editors, or line developers will offer him more than one contract if his work consistently requires extensive copy editing.

Second, I suggest you research unsolicited manuscripts and their typical reception at publishing firms.

Third, you may need to recalibrate your expectations regarding the size of the RPG publishing market today versus one, two, or three decades ago, as well as the likely success of an attempt to resurrect a property whose core concepts have been left in history's dust. In other words: "market research." It is an unfortunate geek tendency for individual fans or small local (or online) groups to project their own personal enthusiasm for a property onto the overall global population of potential customers, then make sweeping (and erroneous) generalizations about the commercial viability of their personal visions for said property. In some cases, this failed understanding goes so far as to drive catastrophically bad business decisions.

Fourth, you should understand how a product progresses from initial concept to published work. "Writing new material" is but the tip of the iceberg, even in the very small companies that comprise the majority of RPG houses today. A large amount of budgeting, scheduling, and other project management work occurs behind the scenes, to say nothing of the art and production tasks. It's my unqualified belief that it's in the invisible-to-the-consumer PM side of the effort - not in the act of arranging words on a screen - that most catastrophic business failures are born. A good starting point for such research would be the publisher forums over on RPG.net. We've also had several relevant discussions in this forum, which an informed use of the Search function will unearth for your reading pleasure.

Fifth, you may wish to take to heart the behavioral advice given to you by the eminences grises of this forum, not just pay it lip service while continuing to violate the spirit of the guidelines that govern interactions here. Statements like "I am not here to win friends" do nothing to earn respect or establish professional credentials - social currency which, had you bothered to comprehend the atmosphere of this forum before entering, you would understand to be far more valuable than a high post count. To the contrary, such statements only establish your image as a confrontational, argumentative intruder who would rather be "right" (ironic airquotes intentional) than be part of the community. If it is your wish to be the undisputed dominant poster in a depopulated forum that serves only as an echo chamber for your own creative excursions, or if you seek the sulking self-justification of a formal ban or informal ostracism for conduct unbecoming, then feel free to continue undeterred on your present course. If you want to be offered a seat at the grown-ups' table, first learn to moderate your excesses of self-righteousness.

- C.

Thank you very much for the advice and the information. I hope that not only me but others read it as well who may want to see if we can get some of the fan canon things that have been created possibly published as official Twilight 2000 canon one day.

Operation Proud Lion in the Fanzine
 

This isn't new, but I figured that a link to the fanzine version of my Proud Lion piece might be helpful.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3785

Here's a PDF version hosted on Paul's awesome site.

http://www.pmulcahy.com/PDFs/good_lu...wn_issue_1.pdf

always loved that work of yours - and drew on part of what you and Franky talked about for some of the details in my East African Sourcebook - i went a a different way with the 173rd than you did but your work is great - wish we had a new edition

Almost as important, agriculture falls back on the annual flood, rather than being regulated to a conisistent level year round.

My problem with this is that The Egyptians would havd to get aid through a few layers of bandits in northern Sudan before reaching southern Sudanese who might raid into Kenya. I have my doubts they could reach.

Also, I question any government giving away much in the way of arms and ammunition. No one has the existing industrial AND supply base to afford to give away to anyone. They don't know where the replacements would come from.


Wouldn't THAT make a more likely target in T2K for a nuke than Aswan? The concern was more to hit targets that would give Western militaries a source of oil.

And to that end, please explain why the BCT's mission would be to prop up all of Kenya, when they could do a better jobnof ensuring an oil supply by concentrating around the location of the refinery and the nearest port?

Uncle Ted

That's a fair question. The rationale has more to do with gameplay than with the backstory. I wanted to open up all of Kenya, with its various diverse geographical and cultural regions, to gameplay. This, I thought, would be easier if components of the 173rd were spread out a little. The fait accompli I used is the food situation- the fertile agricultural regions in the west eventually became more important to the BCT than the tottering refinery. Without regular resupply from the sea, the BCT would have to feed itself.

I suppose if you needed more reasons, another could be dispersal of the 173rd when it was believed that the refinery site would be nuked. Dispersal also creates defense in depth. Also, one could argue that abandoning the rest of the country to the deprivations of various enemies, foreign and domestic, would be a surefire way to lose the support of the Kenyan people and military.

Here are the pertinent sections of my piece:

The Aftermath

With the onset of limited nuclear warfare in November of 1997, the situation in Africa became even more dire. Humiliated by the failure of their offensive and feeling betrayed by their Soviet allies, the Tanzanian government and military turned on itself and the country collapsed into a brutal civil war. Scattered Tanzanian army units continued to raid across the Kenyan border. The Ugandan government also collapsed. Former Ugandan army troops joined the Lord's Army in pushing deeper into Kenyan territory. Incursions by Somali bandits increased. Citing the correlation of increased Western presence in Kenyan and East Africa's mounting problems, the Junudullah grew and became bolder in their attacks.

By mid-2000, the 173rd has been operating in Kenya for three years. They have not received replacement personnel since early 1998. Shipments of ammunition and spare parts have also all but ceased. Only a handful of the BCT's fixed wing and rotary aircraft are operational at any given time. Very little fuel is being produced at the refinery. Most of the brigade's ground vehicles have been converted to run on alcohol, saving what little gasoline is available for its aircraft. Elements of the 173rd BCT are scattered around the country, with Brigade HQ relocated to Nairobi. The BCT is combating a host of enemies, most of which can be broadly categorized as marauders. Fighting alongside the Americans are the remains of the once formidable Kenyan army, the British Army's Africa training cadre (including an SAS mobility group in the north), a few French military "advisors", and multi-national PMC personnel (mostly Israeli) formerly employed guarding the refineries (this duty has been taken over by the USN and USCG).

Operations 1997-2000

Throughout the remainder of 1997, the Herd's infantry battalions remained concentrated around the strategically important cities of Mombasa and Nairobi. Although the Tanzanian offensive had been blunted and thrown back, the remnants of the Tanzanian military (including rogue forces of Tanzanian origin) still retained the capacity to threaten southern Kenya. Operations focused on destroying the remnants of the invasion force remaining in the frontier region. An operational shift occurred after the escalation of the nuclear phase of the war in the autumn of 1997. Shipments of replacement personnel and equipment, ammunition, supplies, and spare parts from CENTCOM and CONUS slowed to a trickle. The forces in and around the strategically important refinery and port facilities in Mombasa braced for a nuclear attack which fortunately never came.

With the continuation of drought conditions throughout East Africa, the food situation for the Herd, as well as Kenya's urban population, soon became critical. Kenya's western highlands, one of the Africa's most productive agricultural regions, became a area of strategic importance. At the same time, incursions by LRA and renegade Ugandan military units in the region increased as the situation in Uganda spiraled out of control. Farms and farming villages were overrun, crops plundered or ruined, and atrocities against civilians committed on an alarming scale. The Kenyan infantry brigades assigned to the region were hard pressed to stem the flow of Ugandan marauders. Scattered reports of disgruntled Kenyan troops deserting from their units and joining the Ugandan marauders began to reach Nairobi. The 1/503 and 2/503 parachute infantry battalions were sent to western Kenya to stabilize the situation and secure the valuable food producing regions.

As of July 2000, the 1/503 remained in western Kenya, along with elements of the 2/503. Other elements of the 2/503 formed ad-hoc task forces that were deployed to trouble spots in the north of the country, as circumstances dictated. Along with most of the Brigade Combat Team's remaining operational aircraft, the 4/503 (airmobile) were based around Nairobi and operated mostly in the central highlands. A Troop, 1/91st Cavalry and the 3/503 (light motorized), using French-made AFVs, operated out of Mombasa and were tasked with keeping the Mombasa to Nairobi highway open. Throughout Kenya, the 173rd BCT operated alongside loyal Kenyan military forces which, for the most part, displayed professionalism and fighting spirit.

Ted - thats one reason why I had the Egyptians getting nuked and nuked pretty heavily to deny that oil to the US (since the Egyptians were US allies in the 90's) with nukes hitting in Cairo and Alexandria and other refineries - with only the small one in the Sinai not getting hit (its old and pretty small)

And one reason for propping up most of Kenya, as Raellus pointed out, was the need to protect the agricultural area - the area you really need to protect isnt the entire country if you want to get the most bang for your buck, its the heart of the country that runs from Nairobi to Mombasa, add in the agricultural areas, and run patrols in the rest

A Few NPC's
 

Enjoy

Sergeant Stuart Selkirk

Sergeant Stuart Selkirk, was born in Big Piney, Wyoming , his primary military specialty is infantry, and his secondary military specialty is SERE instructor. Outback was an instructor at both the USAF SERE School and the USMC Jungle Warfare Training Center at Camp Gonsalves in Japan. He has had extensive experience in Central America and Africa primary with the CIA and DIA. Stuart is not intimidated by wilderness, and believes in being part of his environment rather than its adversary.

His reputation in extreme climates and environments earned him a spot with the 1/503 his and Corporal Daniel LeClaire were actually part of joint CIA/DIA mission to train and advise Tanzania rebels. When the 173rd BCT established its Recondo school, Stuart and Daniel where immediately assigned as instructors.

Stuart prefers to prove his ability to do without any tech. He views the gadgets and gizmos of today's modern world as distractions, which come at the expense of essential skills like finding food, crafting shelter, and navigating the world without the use of GPS. Stuart’s ability to improvise solutions with the bare minimum of resources has saved his life and the lives of his teammates time and again.

Corporal Daniel LeClaire

Corporal Daniel LeClaire, was born in Wheaton, Wisconsin, his primary military specialty is infantry and his secondary military specialty is intelligence. He was a Cadre member USMC Jungle Warfare Training Center at Camp Gonsalves in Japan.

LeClaire is also graduate from 9th Infantry Division Recondo School in 1979. He left the army in 1986 and worked as bush guide in Africa where he was bought into contact with Sergeant Selkirk during a 1988 mission in South-West Africa (Namibia).

After this his help on this mission he remained as paid CIA informant in the region till he returned to the states in 1992. In 1995 both him and Selkirk were hired as contract officers for the CIA and were sent to Kenya.

Daniel hates the cold, and loves being in the jungle, hauling a rucksack through the bush, and sweating through his cammies. He is a qualified expert with the M-14, Swedish K, grease gun, M-1911A1 Auto Pistol and M-79 grenade launcher.