Okay, to get back on track...
Get it?
On track? Hahahaha... okay, where's my medication?

This is a good example of why Mr "I want everyone to call the M113 light tank the Gavin" cannot have everything he wants.

http://www.army.gov.au/AWMA_Mus/imag...eb_imgw512.jpg
M113 Medium Reconnaissance Vehicle -- M113A1 with Scorpion CVR(T) turret

Those panels on the side and the front that look like extra armour, they're actually floatation panels to help the beast stay above the water when it tries to be amphibious. By putting a turret on the M113, it became seriously unstable when it tried to swim. That won't be a problem if you can get across a river with a bridge/ferry etc. but if you can't you might just be leaving your fire support behind or worse... sitting at the bottom because an errant wave caused it to capsize.

Basically what I'm saying is that no matter how good the M113 might be, it simply cannot do everything the guy on the website believes it can unless it loses some other ability.

That sounds like when I moved with my family from Hawaii to Texarkana TX (not my idea, I was a dependent and my stepmonster was taking over as the active duty First Sgt of a reserve unit) and everyone told me I had an accent! No, you all have an accent!

I have pretty much lived all my life in Nebraska, when I joined the USMC and spent about 3 of those years in North Carolina. When I came home my family (sisters in particular) giggled allot as I had picked up a somewhat of a southern accent. Its mostly gone now, though occasionally use a word or inflection once in a while.

Thats one of my favorite versions of the m113. Though putting a 90mm in that turret would even make it cooler. Would make a nice little support light tank.

Its the latest thing from DOD! Not only is it a mobile gas chamber....it also tests the internal fortitude of its passengers, especially when all of the hatches are closed!!!

This the M-113 Gavin Vomit Comet!

;)

*sigh* all this M113/variant bashing hurts me to my core :) I spent roughly 8 years on different M113 variants - M577, M113, M113A3, TC'd a M901. I have a soft spot for them.

They're not nearly as bad as the rap they're getting - they just can't be used as a direct replacement for a M2 or any other IFV - an IFV they're not.

I still think that we'd get 80% of the mission capability of the Stryker for 25% of the cost with the M113. But the added loss of life (getting to that in a sec) wouldn't be worth it - the biggest issue with them nowadays is the IED. There's no way to retrofit a V-shaped hull on the M113 (like they're doing rather successfully with the Stryker), so in a counterinsurgency, they'd be a death box.

Regardless, I love them even if they are flawed, so please take it easy on my memories :-D

Despite my attack against the guy who wants everybody to call the M113 the Gavin (and believes that it's a light tank), I actually do like the boxy little bastard. For me it's one of the iconic vehicles of the Cold War era just as much as the Chieftain, M60 & T-62 MBTs, the BMP-1 & Marder and the BTR-60 and so on.
I have fond memories of standing in the rear hatch with an SLR in one hand and hanging on for dear life with the other as we ploughed through the scrub at a great rate of knots.


And just for the hell of it, how's this for an interesting M113 variant - be a real bitch to reload the .50 cals under fire!
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5910/m113a2t2qv3.jpg

10th Light Horse? Or the Regs?

LOL... I've lived in Texas for about the last 25 years... I went back to NoDak a while back and everyone laughed at my accent... but to the natives here in Texas I still have an Northern Accent.. esp with a Norsk influence... uffda ya'll..

FB

Originally with 1/15 RNSWL and 2 Cav (back when 2 Cav had tracks and not wheels) and then later with 10 Little Ponies.

I never got to go bush in a 113, in 11/28th we would get trucked someplace and then do a lot of walking. One of the players in my long-running Gunmaster T2K campaign was with 2 Cav about the time they were first getting their ASLAVs. Had you left 2 Cav by then?

Well, the question isn't liking; the question is being goddamn insane about it and thinking it's the omni-vehicle that it in fact is not. In the roles it has to serve, it does pretty well. I would just rather have an M1 where an M1 was needed, not some unstable internet creep's whacked out sci-fi idea that a tracked aluminum box is the solution to all problems.

I just discovered what love is.................

That would make the living greatest Infantry support vehicle. Can you imagine the African Plains. Sitting up high where you can see.

Can you put a FLIR on it. .................................

*drools*

You can put a FLIR on most anything these days. If nothing else, I'm sure something with a PAS-13 could be sorted out.

One can almost see Burt (from the Tremors trilogy) having one in his garage....

I can also see the Mississippi Highway Patrol having one of these set up at there next license inspection checkpoint!

Whose 113 is that? What's the designation? It's definitely stat-worthy!

Warning - Image heavy
 

@ Targan - I didn't actually serve with 2 Cav, just rode in their battle taxis once in a while and I was back in W.A. for some time when they got the AUSLAVs.

@ ArmySGT and Paul - I did some more searching because the site I pilfered the "Quad 50 M113" from didn't mention anything about its ownership. I found this forum states that it's a Turkish modification http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=18699.105
And they have a far better copy of the pic I posted as well.
I've since found that "apparently" it's called the M113A2T2 ZPT (still not certain though) and it's made on the Turkish base model M113 (the M113A2T2) and here's some more pics of it: -
http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/500/331265_2.jpg
http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/B...T2%20ZPT-1.jpg
http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/B...T2%20ZPT-3.jpg

For some more images (with better detail) although of a model kit, try this link http://m113.blog.cz/1004/m113-a2t2-ztp

And here's another interesting M113 from the What If modelling site I posted above - apparently was an experiment with the turret from the M24 Chaffee by Taiwan. Although they linked to a Taiwanese forum for the pic, they didn't add the second pic
http://taiwanbbs.org/main/uploads/a2ry4_7421.jpg
http://taiwanbbs.org/main/uploads/a3rj1_3685.jpg

And because I seem to have the Google-fu today, here's another Quad 50 M113 variant - the M548 (apparently it was a field mod and had some sort of armour as well).
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/529...carrieray6.jpg

Also, if you can ever find a copy of "Vietnam Tracks - Armor In Battle 1945-75" there's a few M113 mods to be found between its covers. Unfortunately some of the photos don't show a lot of detail but you can find one pic with a mostly obscured M113 mounting the turret from the M8 Greyhound (page 42). The M113 is behind a Ford scout car so you can't see a whole lot of the body but you can see enough to see that it is an M113.

Vietnam Tracks
Armor In Battle 1945-75
Simon Dunston
Osprey Publishing Ltd
ISBN 0 85045 472 7
Published 1982
Reprinted 1984

An Israeli urban combat mod for the M113
http://defense-update.com/images_new/urban_fighter.jpg

To finish off, how about an IFV based on the M113 sporting a BMP3 turret - the Turkish ACV-SW. I believe the manufacturer is FNSS Savunma Sistemleri
http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen...EX_2005_01.jpg

And I found another one and boy is it ugly!
Image: A Bahraini Army M548 APC guards the main entrance to Budaiya, west of Manama, March 25, 2011. (REUTERS/Hamad I Mohammed)
http://milinme.files.wordpress.com/2.../bafa-0471.jpg

Found it on this blog 'Military In the Middle East'
http://milinme.wordpress.com/

I...I...my eyes, they are burning:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../5ton113-2.jpg

I dont know if this...abomination...belongs here or in the 'gun trucks' thread...

Found that gem in this old thread on militaryphotos.net: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...3-and-variants

Holy crap a T2k original there.

I wonder if that's doable with like an M2 (complete with turret) as a "cab-over"?

Probably not - big tonnage difference between an empty 113 hull, and an M2 hull with the turret. The M2A2 weighs 36 tons if memory serves me correctly - though a lot of that will go away (engine, tracks, etc), it'll still be north of 30 tons. The 113 weighs about 13ish tons I think - so figure 10 empty or so. I think the weight of the M2 would crush the 5ton suspension :)

Here's some pics if anyone's curious of Israeli-modified M113's.

It's called the Kasman. I believe that's Hebrew for "The Magic of Music" (if not someone correct me).

Bite your tongue, sir. I find that truck to be a lady of rare beauty.

LOL. Ok, from now on we're sending you the ugly ones, Web. :D

Well, I think one can certainly say that never has a single chassis been so modified into so many variants!

You can say what you want about that there little aluminium box...but the darn thing is going to be around for another hundred years or so!!!!

...and for the next hundred years, nobody will call it the "Gavin" :D

Possibly much longer- I was in a games shop the other day (for the first time in 10 years or so) and there were some models of Warhammer 40000 vehicles that seemed to share that familiar silhouette!

Early WH40k relied a great, great deal on scratchbuild so I wouldn't be surprised if - given the lineage - Forgeworld and Citadel Miniatures hadn't unwittingly incorporated M113 lines into their designs as the kitbashing that went on from '86 onward probably included a lot of M113 kits.

I had a rather evil thought (or two). How feasible would it be to remove either the top two, or bottom two .50 cal's and replace them with Mk19 40mm grenade machine guns? And have the paired guns set for synchronized fire, with a selector switch to allow use of either the twin .50 cal's, the twin 40mm launchers, or both? Oh, and throw in a FLIR/night vision/image magnification device with a target reticle and laser rangefinder.

Just think, it would be perfect as a multipurpose tool, for clearing everything from zombies and ghouls, to marauders, to vampires, cannibals, mutants, werewolves, etc. etc. :D

Shouldn't be too hard, since most mountings these days are set up to take either a fifty or a 19, so those could be modified I am sure... question is, can you swap the feed to the other direction? If you can, nothing stopping you from mounting four.


After all, the Israeli's pulled the four fifties off and swapped them with a pair of 20mm cannons, so it can be modified easy enough.

The big problem is the different ballistics of the two weapons. The 40mm flies much slower than the .50 cal so needs a greater elevation for the same range. Unless firing at very close range (a hundred metres or so) chances are you'll end up with either the .50 hitting the clouds, or 40mm dropping on your toes (so to speak).
The easiest "fix" is to simply fire one or the other and not both simultaneously.

Unless you swap all four, which would be just outright cool. :)

40mm would be a disappointment.

The standard ammo can went from 48 to 32 rounds.

2212 meters max effective range for the 40mm that could be done better in 25mm if you going with a vehicle mount.

dumb idea
 

i wonder if you could mount an abrahm turret on a 113 without crushing the old reliable beer can?

Dumber Idea
 

Forget the Abrams Turret. Put a gun turret from the Missouri with the 16" guns on the 113!

Paul, Paul, Paul. You gotta think bigger man! One of Bull's super guns mounted on an 8x8 grid of 113s. That's the way to go.

and an 8x16 grid of 113's as caissons for the nuclear ammo:D

what go big or go home.

Exactly! I like the cut of your jib, BC!

Well I can't offer an M113 mounting a battleship turret or even an M113 mounting a tank turret but what about the M113 as a 105mm assault gun/howitzer? Known as the FSCV (Fire Support Combat Vehicle), it was a proposed German M113 variant and that's about all the info I have.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...erfscv_003.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...erfscv_001.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...erfscv_005.jpg

Awesome, an M113 STG-III

:D

(seriously if we don't stop Sparks is gonna show up)