Red Dawn Remake!
 

Greetings,

On November 24th, 2010, the remake of the Reagan Era/Cold War classic "Red Dawn" will hit the theatres in time for the holiday season. I gotta tell you troopers, while I reallyl liked the original, I'm not holding out much hope for the remake.
According to what I've been able to dig up, the Chinese launch an airborne assault on Spokane, Washington. The plot synopsis makes it sound a bit more Twilight than Twilight 2000. I dunno. What do the rest of you think?

Out Here,
Frank Frey

We had a discussion on this a few months back; the general consensus was No, No, NO! The horror...

Yeah in general it has not gotten much support here. The Chinese are not the Red Bear of my youth so most likely I will catch it on video at some point.

Previous threads.

Red Dawn 2010 rant!
OT: "Red Dawn" To Be Remade

Chances are (as usual) the trailer will include all the good bits and the rest of the movie (especially the plot) will be one great big steaming pile of bison crap.

Still, it's always possible we'll be surprised and it turns out to be not half bad...

The idea of the Chinese invading is beyond silly, although I still love Fortress America. By the way, is there anyone in Northern California who'd be interested in a game? I have a copy with only one or two missing/broken pieces.

Webstral

suspension of disbelief
 

I hope that people here arnt provoked when I say that the premiss for the original Red Dawn wasnt exactly credible either - the USSR wouldnt have a prayer if they tried to invade CONUS.Cuban auxilliaries or not .

As for teh artistic merit of the film itself -well lay just say that opinions vary on the subject.


But I did love the movie when it came out in Norway .And it did color my views for the next decade or so. I still love it - but now for all "the wrong reasons".

As for the Chinese invading the US .

LOL.

But con grano sal and a hefty dose of suspension of disbelief it could be an enjoyable b-movie .A sci fi film or action movie that can claim no reality strings attached.

Definently going to see it at some point .

Was just reading the IMDB page. The director has 24 years as both a second unit director and stunt coordinator, but this is his first project as lead director. Not quite sure how to read that beyond the fact that action will probably take precedence over plot.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0103187/

Now vampire or zombie chinese soldiers invading the USA might make it worth watching!!

Probably this will be the right predisposition required to enjoy the film. I hope the first minutes of the movie won’t destroy it.

An added factor is, of course, our current age. I was a teenager when I saw “Red Dawn” and my “suspension of disbelief” was in “automatic mode”. The little cinema of my town, now closed, showed two consecutive movies each Saturday and Sunday. You paid only for one movie and watched both, spending all the afternoon in the theater. They were movies shown with years of delay if compared with the theaters in Barcelona. So I went with my sister to watch ET, while “Red Dawn”, the second movie was totally unknown to me (“Red Dawn” went nearly unnoticed in Spain). My sister left the theater crying with ET in mind while I was jubilant with the heroic deeds of the Wolverines.

Don't forget that in the opening moments of the original we're informed the US has somehow managed to alienate all of it's potential allies and basically the entire world is against it.
The invasion is not just by Soviets and Cubans - they're just the only nationalities involved in the AO of the characters.

hmmm
 

right .

well as I said - not exactly the most credible backstory/plot for the original then.

Not to mention the red scare factor and all .

but as a heroic story of combatting oppression -go wolverines by all means.
A small band of civillians get together and fight back using irregular tactics against a highly organized and well equipped occupation force.

I think I am going to see it again one of these days .As far as cold war mementoes goes, this one is a landmark.

The US alienate its allies? Never happen... right?

To refresh our memories.

"Who IS on our side?"

"600 million screamin' Chinamen."

"I thought it was a billion?"

"It was." FOOM!

I think we all agree that the invasion scenario for Red Dawn was like something out of the 1950s. 5 Soviet army groups come across the Bering Strait? From where to where? Until you get to Anchorage there's no logistical transport net to move materials south and east. We've had this discussion on this site many times before concerning TW2K's Aleutian Front invasion of Alaska. But let's put all the logistical suspension of disbelief aside for a moment.

What I remember about Red Dawn when it first came out was all the political hubbub about it. This was the same era that produced The Day After and Amerika as television events. People were ranting about how Red Dawn was some sick Reaganite fantasy being used to justify the massive military build up at the time. Such reactions were often coupled with people's fears that "The Gipper" was so addle-minded that he wasn't really running the country and that somewhere there was a cabal of advisers who were planning to comfortably sit out WWIII in bunkers filled with hookers and blow while the rest of us died while vomiting out our teeth.

Turns out we didn't blow up the world because the senile President thought he was in a movie. Turns out the Soviets went bankrupt trying to keep up with us. And it turns out that Red Dawn has more going on in it than just being an advertisement for the NRA.

At the time, I didn't think much of the film. The idea that the Soviet Army could kick the shit out the US Army on our home soil but couldn't get a grip on less than a dozen untrained kids was just downright stupid. But over the years I started to gain an appreciation for the incredible work that was done creating props for the film. The Soviet vehicles created were all top flight, especially the Hind-A helicopters. I also had to appreciate the director's attention to detail concerning all the firearms props. The films looks extremely good, especially considering the modest budget.

Ultimately though, I learned to love Red Dawn because of an interview with John Milius, the writer/director. Milius was always one of my favorite directors. He gave us the only good sword & sorcery film of that era (Conan the Barbarian), and really good period piece action films (like Dillinger, The Wind and the Lion and Jerimiah Johnson).

Anyways, Milius said in the interview that when he was a kid growing up in Colorado in the 1950s that he was subjected to equally heavy doses of Cold War Red Scare and frontier history. He and his friends spent a lot of time reading about frontiersman like Jim Bridger and the like. So when they went out to play, they would pretend that the Russians had invaded and that he and his fellow grade school commandos would have to defeat the Red Army using all that back-woods Indian lore they'd learned. Well, fast forward 30 years and somehow John Milius found money out in Hollywood to finance putting his childhood fantasy game on the big screen. That would be the same thing as any of us getting to make a movie out of our favorite Role-playing game.

On that level, I gained a new appreciation for Red Dawn.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

You know, whenever I see a new post in the thread list with your name on it I go straight to that new post before all others, specifically just to read lines like that. You, sir, are a wordsmith.:D

Attachment 1100

Some images in the site: http://www.reddawn2010.com/ Don't miss "Naked Dawn"!!

Yeah, well a wordsmith wouldn't have left a typo in there... which I have now corrected. Thanks for the compliment. Please immediately follow up your kind words with kind purchases of Delta Green products.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

I had a headquarters job during my enlisted time, and there were many interesting conversations in that TOC. One of them was about Red Dawn. We discussed at length the challenges of invading the US, even given an absence of the use of nukes. It would be hard to imagine an American military more highly motivated than one defending our soil from the Red hordes in the 1980's. Getting the troops to fall back to trade space for time would be a problem in some cases. However, a Red "breakout" would mean driving into a sea of hostile armed civilians. Those poor guys had better hope they were captured by soldiers, who might feel somewhat bound by the Geneva Convention.

Still, the story makes a good right-wing fantasy. I still enjoy watching it from time to time.

Webstral

While I can appreciate the backstory has more holes than a sieve, that's not all that important to the story itself.
Basically we've got a small group of guerillas/terrorists/freedom fighters (take your pick) making a nuisance of themselves in rough terrain while the bulk of the enemy force is occupied on the front lines. While the intro is, well, a little fictional, the basic storyline is believable.

Back in the day a number of my friends (who were all Army like myself) believed that if Australia was invaded in force in a similar manner as Red Dawn, we'd be far better off hitting the hills ourselves than reporting for duty. Naturally the enemy of the day was expected to outnumber us something like 100-1, so the idea was a bit of a no-brainer.

The Synopsis for the new Red Dawn
 

The Synopsis for the new Red Dawn

lt's Friday night and the residents of Spokane are consumed with the thoughts of the local high school football game. The Wolverines just lost a nail biter and the team's quarterback Matt Eckert is trying to shake off the tough loss. Adding to Matt's worries is the sudden and unexpected return of his older brother Jed (played by Chris Hemsworth, STAR TREK). After their mom died, Jed left town with no warning and enlisted in the military. Now Jed is home unexpectedly after serving in Afghanistan and the brothers' relationship is strained at best. After some encouraging words from his dad and his girlfriend Erica, Matt heads home to sleep off his loss. The next morning Matt is startled awake as their whole house shakes violently. Running outside, Matt and Jed find the sky filled with parachutes and the streets lined with military vehicles. For the first time in history, the United States is being occupied by foreign armies. The invaders are calling themselves the "People's Liberation Army" and they easily outnumber the citizens of Spokane. Matt and Jed's worst nightmares are actualized as missiles scream into nearby houses, rocking them with explosions. On the once quiet streets of their neighborhood, U.S. citizens are being rounded up and taken prisoner. Suddenly, with horror, Matt realizes that the foreign invaders have captured his father and his girlfriend Erica. Matt screams out to them, vowing to save them as Jed drags his brother away to safety.

With the town completely overrun by the enemy, Matt and Jed watch helplessly as their father gives up his life to protect his family, allowing his sons to escape into the Cascade mountains. Determined to fight for their community and rescue what's left of their hometown, the brothers assemble a ragtag group of high school students and begin to fight back. Being a war hero, Jed is able to train this unlikely group of heroes the same way that he was trained. Soon they are transformed into sharp shooting, camouflaged, freedom fighters. Known as the "Wolverines" (after Matt's football team), the group soon becomes a national symbol for the resistance and the hope of Americans everywhere. What this enemy didn't realize is that what makes the U.S. great is not the size of its military, but rather the men and women who wear the uniform and the communities they come from.

With the help of an underground network of scared but brave townspeople, the Wolverines quickly go from a minor nuisance to serious threat as they begin to batter away at the invaders. Using their superior knowledge of the landscape that they grew up around gives them a strategic advantage. The foreign invaders want to destroy the American way of life but the Wolverines aren't going to let that happen.

Meanwhile, Matt is searching tirelessly for his girlfriend Erica who is being held prisoner by the invaders. He will stop at nothing to rescue the girl he loves even if it means risking his life to do so. With the fate of the country on the shoulders of these small town heroes, the Wolverines must summon the courage to overcome impossible odds and unity a town against the greatest threat this country ever faced. Outnumbered and with limited supplies, the Wolverines must rely on the spirit instilled in every small town across the U.S... protect your neighbor at all costs, because even though they aren't your blood, they're still your family. RED DAWN will show you that when this country is in its darkest hour, salvation can be found where we least expect it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/synopsis

Heh heh. Actually DG is the next system on my list of things to buy. Right now (since my long running T2K campaign ended) all my spare book-buying cash has been getting poured into buying everything I can get my hands on for Dark Heresy. Fear not, DG purchases soon!

The original Red Dawn just started screening on TV here. I haven't seen it in ages. I'm off to watch it. Yay!

I grew up with the original and still watch it from time to time to this day, love it! I dont see any reason to remake the film at all ,other than they want to capitalize on the popularity and make some easy money. As we all know every time they try to remake something they ruin it, or they keep trying to add another sequel and run a good thing right into the fraking ground! I really hope they dont do this with a classic as perfect as Red Dawn as well as perfect cast which they cant replicate. I just dont understand why they would even go there! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! Just leave the masterpiece alone for goodness sake people! As for my final answer.............RENTAL!

I know I might take some flak for being overly PC but I'm not too thrilled about a flick that, in effect, demonizes an entire ethnic group. There are loads of Chinese-Americans here in the States and there is still a lot of latent and sometimes overt racism here as well. I still have to teach my high school sophomores that Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and other Asian people are not "all the same". Do we really need a movie that makes the Chinese nation the bad guys? I know there are a lot of movies with Chinese gangsters and the like but the PRC Army invading the U.S.? That's a bit different and, IMHO, not very cool.

With the Soviets, it wasn't an ethnic group taking the fall, it was an ideology.

I'd like to see a Red Dawn version for Down Under. Though still unlikely, an invasion of Australia offers the Chinese a marginally better chance of success than an invasion of the US. If memory serves, private ownership of firearms has taken a body blow. A Red Dawn for Australia might serve as good propaganda for gun ownership and the Reserves.

Webstral

I'm going to go see it and try to keep an open mind, but I'll be surprised if it's any good.

See I view it the exact opposite way. Like it or not th US has an oftentimes antagonistic relationship with China and their people happen to be of a different race. Conflict with China could easily grow over time, possibly into a new cold war. Not many other countries have that potential. Also democracies rarely start war with other democracies. So if we are limited to non-democracies within Europe, that leaves kinda slim pickings.

Having the Chinese as the enemy also allows more Asian actors to have work. If being PC means Asians are not employed doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose. There appears to be an Asian-American (Ken Choi as "Smith") fighting against the Chinese. To be honest I did not expect this film to be complex enough to even approach that potential storyline, so good for them.

I think the original Red Dawn made the Cubans look pretty bad, with the exception of the Cuban colonel Bella who came out of it looking like a belated good guy.

I am aware of America's complex historical relationship with China and that they are perhaps our biggest conventional military rival at the moment. Unfortunately, the likelihood of an armed confrontation between China and the U.S. in the next century or so is probably more likely than not. This kind of stuff certainly won't help ease the tension. It certainly won't encourage moderation, diplomacy, and cultural understanding.

Seriously? You think the good of employing some Chinese-American actors outweighs the negative message that this film will send to every American ignoramous out there? Not likely, IMO.

I am interested in seeing how they handle a Chinese-American fighting against ethnic Chinese and especially how his other American comrades approach him.

Most films are seen by fewer than 10% of all Americans and this film will undoubtedly be banned in China so I think you are overestimating it's impact. As you admitted conflict with China is the most likely so why not be realistic. So what it comes down to censorship and treating race as more important that it really is IMO.

Maybe it is my upbringing (in the most ethnically diverse zipcode in the US and the fact that over 30% of the couplings in both my near and extended family cross racial lines), but I really do want to move into a world where focusing on race is not even part of the equation. Naivete on my part perhaps, but I still want to move in that direction.

OK, but only .0001% (or less) of Asian-Americans will actually be gainfully employed in this film so...

I agree. I wish for the same thing. Unfortunately, I see racism every day in my classes. It's really sad and frustrating for me as a person and as an educator. If only 10% of my students see this film and start (or keep) thinking of the Chinese as bad guys, then the damage will have been done. I'm not saying it'll lead to war or anything, but it's not going to produce anything good. Ignorance, fear, and suspicion don't lead anywhere good. And with Japanese internment in our not-so-distant past, the precedent for knee-jerk, essentially racist responses to crises, perceived or real, I don't think this is anything to sniff at.

This may kick the thread over into "Locked" because it is too polarizing, but I am less disturbed by the Chinese racial aspect than I am by another racial aspect of the film.

I can't help but notice that the role of the collaborating mayor is played by the actor Michael Beach. His son, is played by Connor Cruise. Both actors are African American.

So, if the film stays loyal to what happened in the first film, this "race change" is going to result in two uncomfortable things.

One: an African American elected official is going to collaborate with a foreign invader impose communism on America by force of arms.

Two: the white characters who play the Wolverines are going to have to shoot the black character for not being a loyal American.

While both of those images are a bit thorny, I have to wonder about whether the use of a black politician as a communist collaborator is at all connected to the current debate over health care reform. Since the film isn't out yet, we don't know how Mayor Jenkins and Daryll Jenkins are going to be treated in the script. My discomfort is only based on what happened in the first film coupled with some of the uglier aspects of the anti-health care reform protests.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

And if this is getting too political, I would recommend deleting the political posts rather than locking the thread. I think we should keep a thread about the Red Dawn remake going. I'd rather see my posts deleted than the thread locked.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

I don't think this thread needs to be locked at least not yet.

From what I have heard the script is close to the original but "quite a bit has been changed". I will admit I can see a potential black Mayor collaborator being exploited by some people for his race in the current political climate. That casting decision is very interesting to me as you are correct in that it potentially invites controversy. There is another black wolverine, Edwin Hodge. So perhaps if the "traitor in the midst" part of the story stays true he is the one who delivers the killing shot (in an effort to mitigate some potential backlash). I will be totally honest that even in the original I was never comfortable with that part of the story.

Given that the screenwriters and director are really unknown entities I honestly don't know what to expect from this film.

The Chinese government are bad guys IMO (I still remember Tiananmen). I have a feeling that the average Chinese soldier in the film will be presented with some sympathy just like the fake translating soldier was in the original. Even the Cuban Colonel had some sympathy at the end of the film. There are also Russians in the mix so again I don't know exactly what to expect (maybe they will have Russians commit all the mass killings). I am optimistic given that there is an Asian American freedom fighter in the film. I hope that this film is about being an American not about any particular race.

Sorry the math nut in me was bothered by this statistic so I had to double check it. .0001% of 15 million would be 15. Including extras and stuntmen I expect that hundreds were probably employed so lets call it .001%

Oh I was just reading the script history and originally one of the female leads was to be Asian American. However Isabel Lucas was cast for that part (female transformer from Transformers II)

Here is the IMFDB page for the original Red dawn

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Red_Dawn

Brings back good memories.

Some pics

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/706...onofameric.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/740...nofamerice.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6033/71359509.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/672...blreddawn5.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/407...umblstage3.jpg

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7...onofameric.jpg

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4...nofamericw.jpg

http://www.reddawn2010.com/images/ph...20citizens.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/706...onofameric.jpg

Edit some more here

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5042c5310100gjxt.html

Interesting from my reading of the translation the Chinese blogger seems proud that China has supplanted Russia

Based on the handful of shots we have seen of vehicles, it looks like the remake has abandoned the commitment of the original to using the right vehicles for the enemy.

How many of us would have our photos on the wall, I wonder?

Webstral