OT: Women on subs
 

US women to be allowed to serve on submarines. I find it interesting who allegedly is most upset about this ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/..._on_submarines

I know it's wrong, but I keep thinking about the movie Operation Petticoat...I'm not normally that chauvinistic!

Or the 1970s TV series, with a young Jamie Lee Curtis as one of the nurses. Anyway, it's about time. And it's a good idea to have women first on the boomers and the SSGNs, and then gradually get them onto the fast-attack boats. And despite what Elaine Donnelly and Phyllis Schafly would have you think, this was a non-issue for Congress. (I wish those two would just shut up!)

I think a logical next step would be for the Army and Marines to open up the attack helicopter field to women.

To me the next logical step would be to open up any field.

The attack helo field has been open to women since 1993 in both the Army and USMC. The only fields closed are:

Infantry

Armor

Field Artillery

SOF (SEALs, Rangers, Army SF, AF PJs and Combat Control Teams)

Battlefield Air Defense (Stinger teams, Humvee Avengers, Bradley Stinger)

Though I imagine that will change, since the current Army Chief of Staff and the Chairman of the JCS have called for a reevaluation of these restrictions.

hehe
 

Me too. We have had equal opportunity military since the 1970s.

If a woman can pass selection and make it through training as well as a man she is in up here .Fighter pilots,infantry,artillery,subs etc .I have yet to hear of a female SF operator though..But considering the selection process..It is so brutal that hardly anyone makes it at all.probably women have tried and failed .But it is of course all secret .

Canadian JTF2 has/had at least one. I don't know any details though, only saw her when I was doing enemy force.

Nice to see that Australia is ahead of the game in this area.

There have been rumors for many years that Delta Force has a small number of women used for intelligence-gathering (not combat) missions. Given the highly secretive nature of Delta Force, we are unlikely to ever know if this rumor is true or not. It is certainly plausible though, given the missions they are tasked with.

ahem..
 

In your opinion - will these Special Forces operators be especially hot ?


:D

I've read media articles stating that a small number of women served with the SAS and other clandestine units in Northern Ireland during the 70's and 80's. I think* they were officially attached to the Intelligence Corps rather than the SAS, so not SOF in the strictest sense of the word.

*(For obvious reasons there wasn't much by the way of specifics in the article).

Edit. Just seen Copeab's post about rumours of women serving with Delta Force, and I think the British women I'm referring to had a similar role.

Here you go: the French 1st RPIMa currently has 43 women within its ranks.;)

Yeah I'm familiar a little with that and also think they were intelligence corps... If memory serves, I believe 2 Int Company sounds right or something like that. The unit was more secretive than the other usual Int units.

If you need them to be, sure ;)

(Most likely, they would be fairly average looking, to better blend into the population)

cheers
 

Now that you say it , I was thinking about OUR army .But ,in retrospect I hadnt heard of females in the SF globally either.

Until now that is .

oh,but ..
 

..I do.

Something else is interesting especially toward T2K. In the current French Army, women represent 20% of all new recruits, 14% of all army personnels and only 4% of the complement in that SF unit. They are equally allowed in the foreign legion but, so far, none has completed the tests.

Why not
 

If a woman can do the job, let her.

Another thought....IF the worst were to happen, and the Trident subs emptied their cargo of death, the subs MIGHT be the only un radiated population left.

having served on 2 boomers I forsee lots of problems there a certain ego built into bubbleheads and that will be rough on ladies also the old radition manuals required pregant women be removed from rad areas

It's never been confirmed, but it has always been rumored that Delta has some female operators, either specialists with certain skills or as intelligence assets.

Yes, but you know how military inertia is. You have to do things in steps...integration of women is never going to happen all at once, at least not in the US military.

Hopefully before they become too big to fit through the exit hatch! {I'm thinking about my own bathroom, to be honest, my wife had to turn about 20 degrees to get past the sink.}

I would imagine, given the close quarters and the nature of working near a nuclear reactor, they would remove the woman to land duty until her post-pregnancy leave was over. But as offspring are most vulnerable to mutations during the embryonic phase -- that is a worry.

The Delta outfit that has women is called "The Funny Platoon." It's not a Charlie Beckwith invention, but his successor created it in the late '80s. The women can disguise themselves as reporters, airline employees, and other civilians whose jobs might take them into a high-threat area and they can recon a target. No word, given Delta's OPSEC, on whether or not these lovely and lethal ladies have gone on ops, but it's more than likely that they have.

I would think the ladies in Delta could hold their own in any type fight. Especially since being one who can go places without immediate backup would need to know how to take care of herself.

Abbott

female mantis
 

they are probably tough as nails.I guess after mating they rip the head of their spouse and devour him .

You dont end up an operator regardless of genitalia - if the handlers dont know you could bring a city block down on your own.

Honestly, I think we have been in the cave man mode for too long. Then again as long as she can pull her weight she welcome to the position. Yes, it always surprising that it seem to be some of the biggest women 'liberators' who object when they get their wish. I have been one who believes that if they want to join the military then, they should have same PT testing standards, but that is just me.

Honestly, with the Maintenance Company that got lost during the opening stages of operation in Iraq. Then take into account the number of females who are in such units a Military Police units that are on the front-lines no matter what people back in Washington want to believe. Many of them have shown they can and do carry their own weight. Even remember a news article or two about some Company grade officers too, about how they were leading basically combat mission in their role.

It just silly that they are kept out of Infantry, Artillery, and Armor. When basically the MP, Engineer, and Aviation they have been assigned too are just as close if not closer to the front-line with the other units. With them doing the jobs in those branches it only a matter of time before they get into the last three hold outs.

Special Operation Units well, since they all have Operation security, one can never tell how many and what function they serve. Granted, I doubt you will see one serving with the 75th Ranger Regiment any time soon, but once they are allowed into Infantry, it won't take long for them to be sent to the Ranger School and Q-course. It all a matter of time.

I used to be a fan of women joining combat units until I joined the military. Sure it seems sexy or fair for women to have the same chances as guys, but war isn't going to be either of those. I think having women working besides you in a infantry unit atleast, would be dreadful. Dudes would be always trying to get laid instead of focusing at their job. Plus you can't slow down for cramps and vaginal bleeding. If they get knocked up what are you gonna do? Make them the company clerk? You can only have so many of those.

Yeah, I know there are some tough ladies out there that can compete, but they are still a walking conquest for guys. The pog units that I saw with women were like this too. Dudes flirting with them, them flirting with dudes. It was just down right unprofessional. When I was on ship one of the female sailors got set back stateside, because she was knocked up. I just see things not working well.

Women in combat units will most likely happen someday, it's a sign of the times. Maybe, they should start with all women units.

On the upside, combat medics would have a ready-supply of tampons for plugging wounds.

There was a story I read in a book on US POWs of WWII, probably apocryphal ...

In the spring of 1945, a POW camp was liberated by a Russian combat unit. The Americans were shocked to see armed female soldiers mixed in with the troops. One Yank asked what happened if one of the female soldiers got pregnant. A Russian soldier replied grimly: "She is taken out and shot."

I'll note that those few cultures with the "sworn virgin" tradition (which included Albania) are very unlikely to have this last problem.

In view of the probable existence of the Funny Platoon in Delta, I'll bet that's already happened -- or some Delta analogue of those schools.

There was a book a while back called Imperial Grunts (I think that was the title) where the author looked at the Army's experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He visited the 5th SFG's HQ, and found out that the SF liked having women be "attached" to their units for searching local women, talking to them (they got quite a bit of intel that way), and so on, and that the then-CO of 5th Group was already reccommending that SF find a way to get its own females, as units that had women "borrowed" for the SF complained about the poaching, and that the women were needed in their regular jobs! The females who had been borrowed, to the last woman, enjoyed their time with SF, and most wanted to join full-time, despite the prohibition. Even the current Army Chief of Staff has called for a review of the ban on women in combat units, and probably before the current president's first term is over, it will probably be gone.

I understand that women could be very useful at times, but I don't think them just hanging out with a Special Forces unit and doing what they do is the same thing. They would make great cops and interrogators when it comes to dealing with other females, but I can't see them carrying 150 pounds rucks. Maybe they could be used in the bravo teams, but I can't see them running around on the ground with a Special Forces A-team. As for them liking to hang out with Special Forces, well everyone does. They are not as anal and your not going to do what they do.

To me that sounds quite like there is a general lack of professional discipline, which isn't saying much about the unit. If that's the case, then having females in their ranks is probably not their most burning issue that needs to be addressed.

Maybe so, but all dudes talk about is sex, especially when they aren't getting any. ;) Plus, you have to remember some of these girls that where average in the real world now can become the bell of the ball. Maybe it's just my view, because I never had to work with them directly. I stupidly chose to be part of a CJT(REALLY BAD IDEA!) and had my first semi dealing with them and it was not good. But, these people were the bottom of the barrel.
One time we had this female first sergeant call us to attention and we all burst out laughing and chuckling. Later she went around and took down all our t and a pictures.:( Then there was one that told people she liked getting it on with other girls, a captain and a corporal that hung out all the time until someone final mentioned it, and this one captain dressed up for the Christmas party with a outfit that showed off her tramp stamp and her ass crack.:confused: A male 1st Lt and female 1st Lt got sent home for getting it on. It was a joke of a task force, a total disgrace. More shit went on, but that will take too long to cover. I'm just saying what I have seen was not a pretty picture.

I agree to that. I also agree with W4S about the sex issue, especially as we are forced to send kindergarten kids to first line duty (no offense, I'm nearing 40 and if you were forcing me to do what these boys and girls do, I'll simply end up shooting a bullet in your back ;) ). However, what the F... if they get laid down from time to time?

The problem is when it goes too far. I have recently read that 7 women soldiers in Iraq got pregnant and were, off course, thrawn out of the army. However, I also read that the commander in chief back up and finally decided not to court martialed them and renounced to ask for prison time. That, IMO, is a huge mistake on the part of US command. As long as getting pregnant is against rules they should have been court martialed and punished along with the men who had slept with them (provided they were soldiers of course! If they were civilians, the fault lies entirely on the women's shoulders). Did I understood well or am I wrong?

Women soldiers
 

females serve along side our guys in all arms/branches in half a dozen overseas missions and in our forces on hometurf .

Sexual harassment,illegal pregnancies and failure to cooperate are minor issues if any at all .

In one engagement against Afghan insurgents a female CV-90 gunner recieved commendations for having engaged and "neutralized" 25-30 enemy.

Thats not to say there couldnt be problems - just saying that we are a western ,modern army ,we deploy to Afghanistan,Tchad,Somali waters/Aden bight,been to Iraq,Bosnia,Kosovo,kongo,Lebanon etc etc for over 30 years with women troops intermixed with the guys.

I had girlie -squaddies in two of my squads -one who deployed overseas with us .Pretty good with the .50 cal actually and the HK 40 mm GL

Yes - there were a few incidents of someone messing up with the girls in our battalion.But mostly the chicks were soldiers and treated as such -as well as acted as such.

I do realize that everyone takes different views though .I see it as working with our forces-some else might not agree when recollecting his own experiences.

Am I following this correctly? The US Army puts women in jail for getting pregnant?

That surely can't be right?? Or have I misunderstood?

Oh I am sure the women of the Funny Platoon are going through some of the most grueling training to make sure they are up to it.

Welcome to the military ...

Military justice is primarily concerned with maintaining good order and discipline. Anything that threatens those two things is punished.