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-   -   4e Soviet Unit Location Differences from v1 and v2 (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=6730)

Heffe 03-10-2022 06:36 PM

4e Soviet Unit Location Differences from v1 and v2
Mapping out the changes in 4e and I figured I'd share them here. From the original T2k versions, the following Soviet divisions were in Poland:
  • 43rd Cav
  • 96th Cav
  • 89th Cav
  • 21st Motorized Rifle
  • 20th Tank
  • 124th Motorized Rifle
  • 127th Cav
  • 129th Motorized Rifle
  • 12th Guards Tank
  • 9th Guards Tank
  • 11th Guards Tank
  • 25th Tank
  • 1st Tank
  • 39th Guards Motorized Rifle
  • 20th Guards Cav
  • 131st Motorized Rifle

In 4e, this has been reduced to the following in Poland (though who knows, maybe there's a lot more Soviets in Poland that simply aren't listed in the 4e Ref Manual...). These units from the old T2k versions are still listed as being in Poland:
  • 20th Tank
  • 12th Guards Tank
  • 9th Guards Tank - Mislabeled in 4e as the 9th Tank Division
  • 11th Guards Tank - Mislabeled in 4e as the 11th Tank Division
  • 39th Guards Motorized Rifle

While these ones seem to be brand new to the Soviet OrBat in Poland specifically for 4e:
  • 10th Guards Tank
  • 27th Guards Motorized Rifle
  • 57th Guards Motorized Rifle
  • 79th Guards Tank
  • 7th Guards Tank
  • 47th Guards Tank

In Sweden, you see the following Soviet divisions for the first time:
  • 1st Guards Motorized Rifle - Originally in Western Russia
  • 76th Air Assault - Originally in Leningrad and also originally listed as the 76th Airborne.
  • 131st Motorized Rifle - Originally in Poland. Now renamed the 131st Pechenga Motorized Rifle Division.

Heffe 03-12-2022 09:39 PM

Something I've been slowly coming to the realization of, and further cemented by some comments from users here, is that it appears as though the 4e canon OrBats are really wonky for the USSR. 4e's OrBats seem to be based far more on actual units in the mid 90s. For example, canon material from v1 and v2 indicate Soviet Cav divisions in Poland. In reality, all of the Soviet divisions in T2k would have been motorized rifle and tank divisions, with an occasional airborne division being available.

Heffe 03-12-2022 09:46 PM

Reverse engineering 4e further, based on which units they chose to depict in Poland in the Ref Manual, it seems like they're following the timing of the Gang of Eight coup as the true departure point in the timeline. There are Soviet units which were disbanded late in 1991 or 1992 which are in-game, while there are no units disbanded in 89 or 90 listed in-game.

Heffe 03-21-2022 02:54 PM

I've stumbled across additional Soviet Orbat materials in the time since my last update in this thread, and ended up re-doing my entire document on the Soviets and how their TVDs shook out toward the end of the 80s. FL definitely seems to have slipped up on a couple of items, in that in the Ref Manual they refer to the 3rd Shock Army, when really it was the 3rd Combined Arms Army, but for the most part I think they hit the nail on the head with a lot of their units and locations. I also wonder if they may have accidentally used the 20th Tank Division instead of the 20th Guards Motorized Rifle Division, but they may have done that on purpose. C'est la vie.

Check it out:

*Edit: Based on the data in that file, I think it's interesting to see a few things:
1. FL appears to have largely just taken some of the units from the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany (GSFG) for their Soviet orbat in Southern Poland. This makes me wonder about a few things - What happened to the 2nd Guards Tank Army and the 20th Combined Arms Army? Perhaps those units were in Northern Poland, or were simply no longer in existence due to the war's attrition? And what happened to the multitude of Soviet forces in the Baltic states/Leningrad, and in Belarus? Why were they not in Poland as well?
2. I didn't list it on the sheet, but Sweden seems to be a more random mix of units from the area. You have the 76th Airborne division, which is well situated. Then you have the 1st GMRD from the 11th Guards Combined Army (sourced from the Baltic Military District), and also the 131st MRD from the 6th Combined Arms Army from the Leningrad Military District. Then on top of those you have naval infantry elements in the form of the 336th Naval Infantry Brigade, BUT you have battalions from the 175th Naval Infantry Brigade as well (the 336th based out of Kaliningrad and the 175th out of Murmansk).

Heffe 08-04-2022 10:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
In further preparation for the Canon Plus project, I've decided to map out the locations of Soviet divisions in the lead up to 4e's timeline. Here's a map of the Soviet Military Districts and accompanying number of divisions. The link to my google drive document for the individual Soviet division locations above has also been updated.

Division boxes marked in red represent divisional areas where some or all divisions have been committed in 4e canon.

Division boxes marked in yellow represent divisional areas where some or all divisions have been committed so far in the community Canon Plus project

*edit - I missed a couple of divisions. The Turkestan Military District should only have 7 divisions, while the Siberian Military District should have six.

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