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Adm.Lee 08-09-2011 09:39 AM

Thinking about Intiative
 
So, last night I was thinking about initiative in both v1 and v2.0. I can't recall either ever causing major problems in play, but I have found reasons to dislike each. Have any of you dropped them for something else?



- I have vague memories of referee me having to track everyone's hesitations for them in v1. I could be wrong on that.

- I have stronger memories of v2 groups using the initiative XP system to jack up their scores, so that they could wipe out platoons without a scratch on themselves. That, of course, won't be an issue in a con game, but any PCs with really high initiatives could become combat monsters that will overshadow the others at the table.

I'm planning a convention game someday, and fearing that players might get stuck on these more-complex-than-usual systems.

- At the last few convention games I've played at, the ref has simply ignored the RAW initiative rules and gone around the table. It worked, but it seemed too simplistic to my internal rules-lawyer.

Just reverting to Agility order, or rolling for it seems easy. I also like the Savage Worlds rule of dealing from a deck of cards, high cards go first.

Opinions, thoughts, concerns?

Legbreaker 08-09-2011 05:53 PM

V1.0 is clunky with it's CUF and hesitations, but it can work if the players help out.
V2.0 tends to fall down only when low Initiative characters fail to take advantage of repetative actions - the ability to lay down cover fire over an area for long periods of time without stopping for example. Low initiative characters in my opinion are best utilised by being assigned belt fed or other high capacity weapons. Note also that a low initiative character conducting repetative actions actually goes before high initiative characters which, providing it's a sensible action (such as covering a doorway with fire) can really restrict the high initiative characters options.
V2.2 evens things out significiantly by allowing everyone to act every turn but giving high Initiative an extra action. In my opinion it levels the playing field a bit too much.

Another issue which in my experience seems to be ingnored almost constantly is the effect of injuries. If a character, any character is injured by anything nastier than a sharp stick, chances are they're doing NOTHING for at LEAST the next round and probably much longer. During this time, the enemy has free reign to do anything they want completely unopposed, including hitting them again, and again, and again, and again. Grenades and other area effect weapons are great for knocking down and opponent and keeping them there without having to be too accurate. Three barely skilled NPCs with a handful of hand grenades each are going to take apart even a highly skilled and high initiative group of PCs if they bunch up too much (as most seem to do) while taking virtually no casulaties themselves.

Naturally, switched on PCs can do exactly the same - take out everyone with explosives.

An Australian infantryman in the Korean War was renown for acutally putting this game rule into practise even before roleplaying was a pipedream. He rarely fired his rifle but relied instead on the sandbag of handgrenades he carried everywhere. Apparently you always knew where he was - just had to listen for the explosion every few moments...

leonpoi 08-09-2011 07:54 PM

Adm.Lee, I don't think you're alone thinking about initiative, and Legbreaker's summary pretty much echoes my thoughts.

There is one thing I’ll say about the v2.2 system; that it takes all of the accounting out of the system and therefore speeds things up. A while back I ran a session with 5 PCs (who had not played 2.2 before) in a firefight with about 10 marauders. There were explosions, automatic fire, vehicles, all kinds of things and the combat went so smoothly and felt very intense because the initiative system didn’t get in the way of the action.

Having said that, it’s got its problems – these are the big ones that I see.
1) Everyone pretty much gets one action per turn (the level playing field)
2) We had one PC with Init 7 = 2 actions, and he clearly dominated – it just didn’t feel right that he got to do twice as many things – the step change is just too sharp from 1 action to 2 actions.

To get around this I’d proposed a hybrid between v1 and v2.2 where characters got 1 action per 6 turns (phase) plus an extra action for every Init 4 or greater. i.e. a Init 5 character would get 8 actions in 6 turns. This would step up the granularity of actions. I never got to test this though because I moved country and haven’t played since. It would require book keeping though over a phase (which I would have handled with chips/counters), but at least you wouldn’t need to keep track of what’s been repeated. Most NPCs would have Inits <4, so it would only need book keeping for harder NPC fights.

Legbreaker 08-09-2011 08:22 PM

I quite like that idea actually. The way 2.2 gives an additional acton in every 5 second round just doesn't sit well with me - can a person really run two lots of 30 metres in the same five seconds everyone else only gets half the distance?
Although a little cumbersome, I've always prefered the 2.0 method, BUT players and GM must use repetative actions to make it work properly AND be aware and implement (can't stress enough) injury restrictions. Only really penalises a character in the initial stages of combat, where you'd expect to see low initiative characters hesitating. Once they get into their groove and training takes over, they're still at a bit of a disadvantage (they can't change actions other than stop until their next scheduled action), but they can still be effective.
Although the rules say it should be the same action from five second phase to five second phase, I would expand it to the same general action such as fish out grenade, pull pin and throw, repeat, or aim, fire, aim, fire. Both these examples should by the rules take two actions of five seconds duration to complete.

kcdusk 08-10-2011 02:14 AM

"Initiative" is one of those polorising topics.

I think most people agree it needs to be quick, give some advantage to "battle tested" characters and be realistic, if possible.

We have to remember though that initiative isnt just "who can draw" first or fastest, western style. Its who "acts" first. Taking action under fire is as much "courage" as it is "fast twitch fibers". It can be compared to sportsman where they test well (benchpress, 40 yard dash, vertical leap) but simply dont "play the game very well".

I think initiative also represents "dumb luck" to some degree. Even the best operators get surprised or caught off guard from time to time. In my own system i tried to callibrate "initiative" so that a novice PC who rolled a "6" would win a "draw" verse a high level character who rolled a "1" on a D6 (effectively a 1/36 chance for the novice to win).

I like weapon choice to have an impact on characters. So i try to use weapon "bulk" in determining initiative (rifles at a disadvantage to pistals).

I like each combat round to be different, so i am OK with player die rolls to go towards who acts first in each combat round.

Coolness under fire and hesitation V1.0 style was a good idea, that doesnt work in practice.

I agree that injuries are under sold.

I think everyone has their own homebrew initiative to reflect how they view it. All you can do is take other peoples ideas into consideration when weighting your own system.

B.T. 08-10-2011 03:33 AM

The idea to take the bulk-rating and subtract it from the Initiative seems to be a good way, to ballance things out a bit. To my mind, it works.

But there is a point, where I'm not sure, if I understand the rules properly: PCs get rewarded special points to increase the Initiative (In v2.2, that is). But what is the highest possible value for Initiative? Can a PC build up Initiative-values that exceed 7?

Adm.Lee 08-10-2011 10:09 AM

I had forgotten/didn't realize that v2.2 had tweaked Initiative. I think it's the static nature of Initiative that rankles me most-- an Init 5 PC will always have the drop on all Init 4 NPCs. Maybe I play too many other games, but that rubs me wrong.

Repetitive actions are very useful, but when the high-initiative PCs are staging an ambush, mid- to lower-initiative NPCs not covering areas get hosed.

I agree the injury penalties are key. I remember using them in my later games of v.2, but I wonder how much the players played along?

I was thinking about 2 different things, one for each system.
1. For v1, I was thinking of giving each PC a set of 6 counters (I play wargames, I have lots of two-sided counters), one side labelled "hesitate" on one side, and "action" on the other. They could lay them or stack them on the table, and arrange them how they liked, as long as the proper number of hesitations were showing. Each action round, they move down the line, hesitating or acting as needed. If they got hit, or some other thig came along to change things, they could flip the necessary changes.

2. For v2, I clicked on the idea of the deck of playing cards, as in Savage Worlds. Deal each PC a hand of cards equal to their initiative. The GM gets a hand for each batch of NPCs (like, one hand for a leader, another hand for the followers). Then, go down through the cards in descending order (Aces high). If someone gets hit and has to take an initiative penalty, they give up their next 1 or 3 cards, and won't get so many next hand.
- This would scramble the order of actions all over the place, so it's not always the 6's going first. They'll get more actions (or, more decision points), but not always first.
- Repetitive actions (and other conditions) would still apply, that character would act as usual, discarding cards as they came up, unless they change action, of course.
- Jokers could be ignored. They could also be wild, allowing someone a lucky break, allowing them to interrupt someone else's action if they pleased. That might be too random?
- Tied cards (i.e. I have an 8, you have an 8) could be resolved in suit order, or Agility or weapon Bulk. Maybe the GM could waffle on that, as he desires.

This was one of those things that came to me in the middle of the night. Could be a good idea, could suck.

simonmark6 08-10-2011 11:45 AM

I think that high Initiative PCs or NPCs do have the advantage in most senses. In ambush situations those being ambushed usually do end up getting hosed. This would happen even if a group of low initiative NPCs ambush a bunch of PCs, the NPCs would have been conducting continuous "overwatch" actions and thus it would be they that initiated the combat.

After that, lots of the PCs are going to be injured and dropping in initiative or able to fight back in the hail of beaten fire and repeated actions. People get creamed in ambushes, that's why they are so popular. The rules work fine, you just have to apply them.

If you want a little variety, add the odd high initiative novice NPC to the mix to represent the up and coming young gun or guy with hair trigger reflexes, the BYB even suggests this to explain Monk's high initiative for a relatively inexperienced combatant.

If you are going to the bother of tracking things minutely, you might want to just roll for initiative for NPCs instead of using the book numbers. Military NPCs would get a straight d6, Elites get a 5 or a 6+1. Non-military would get d6/2 or whatever you deem correct.

As for bulk, I generally use it either as a penalty in CQB situations or as a tie-breaker between equal initiatives. To refine it I might assign an initiative penalty to characters who are using a weapon whose bulk is higher than their Strength and Constitution averaged to represent that it is too big and awkward for the person carrying it. Even that seems necessarily complicated.

In conclusion, I believe that the initiative system is fine as long as you make your NPCs fight sensibly and use the wound rules strictly.

Legbreaker 08-10-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonmark6 (Post 37008)
In conclusion, I believe that the initiative system is fine as long as you make your NPCs fight sensibly and use the wound rules strictly.

Exactly right. An Initative 6 character isn't going to stay that fast very long in a proper combat. The first "scratch" wound will cause them to loose an action. The second "scratch" or first decent injury (more than half the hit location's capacity) is going to drop a whole point of initiative as well as make them sit out the rest of the turn (30 seconds). Meanwhile the enemy has free reign to plug away at them.

Add on top of that a "serious" (more than capacity) injury and the character has lost 3 points of Initiative AND the use of the limb. If that's a leg, they're not walking. If an arm, they're not using it to steady their weapon. If it's abdomen or chest, they're not doing ANYTHING and if it's the head, they're probably already unconscious.
A serious wound also cuts Strength in half. This means the character is rather unlikely to be able to move at all, even if it's an arm injury, due to their suddenly reduced load carrying capacity. They're also MUCH less able to control their weapon - they may have been able to fire off say 3 single shots before injury without recoil penalty, now they might manage just one.

And then there's "critical" wounds (x2 capacity). Cut intiative again and if yourre lucky enough to still have an effective 1, EVERY action requires a roll to stay conscious as well as all the previous penalties. A critical head wound means you're dead and given the average head hit capacity is around 10, a single bullet could well put you down for good.

Armour helps, but the wearer still suffers some injury even if the bullet doesn't penetrate. The first round will inflict a "scratch", and the second a "slight" even if both rounds are nothing more than a .22LR. What armour will do is allow you to be injured more times before decending further down the one way slide into combat ineffectiveness.

leonpoi 08-10-2011 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonmark6 (Post 37008)
As for bulk, I generally use it either as a penalty in CQB situations or as a tie-breaker between equal initiatives. To refine it I might assign an initiative penalty to characters who are using a weapon whose bulk is higher than their Strength and Constitution averaged to represent that it is too big and awkward for the person carrying it. Even that seems necessarily complicated.

This is basically the approach that I use.

And just curious; we have a growing consensus that the Init system is fine but which version to you use, 1, 2 or 2.2?

Legbreaker 08-10-2011 07:04 PM

Any system isn't perfect and all of them work to some degree - could be a simple coin toss to see who goes first right up to the complex calculations and player decision making required in the Phoenix Command system.
For pure fast paced action, 2.2 is probably the better of the three, but for gritty detail, 1.0 is the way to go (especially the realistic healing times compared to 2.x). 2.0 appears to be a decent balance of the two, provided the rules are used in full.

Adm.Lee 04-19-2012 05:32 PM

Thread necromancy... using chips?
 
I had another thought about this as I prep for a v1 game at Origins this year. I just wrapped up a pair of Savage Worlds games last weekend, where we use poker chips (red=wound, white=shaken, blue=benny) a lot.

My thought is to hand each player 6 chips, white ones for their hesitations, blue ones for actions. Say, someone with a CUF 2 has 1 hesitation, so he gets 5 blues and 1 white. Each round, as I the GM call it, each player advances a chip to show whether he's hesitating or acting, and can name the action. When they get hit, I substitute red chips for additional hesitations caused by wounds.

Opinions?

My apologies if I'm not clear, I'm short on sleep this week, and long on red wine tonight. :)

Legbreaker 04-20-2012 12:22 AM

I had a V1 character once with CUF of 8. How's that going to work with 6 chips?

James Langham 04-20-2012 12:26 PM

I like that as a method but a bit complex for larger fights for the poor GM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee (Post 45360)
I had another thought about this as I prep for a v1 game at Origins this year. I just wrapped up a pair of Savage Worlds games last weekend, where we use poker chips (red=wound, white=shaken, blue=benny) a lot.

My thought is to hand each player 6 chips, white ones for their hesitations, blue ones for actions. Say, someone with a CUF 2 has 1 hesitation, so he gets 5 blues and 1 white. Each round, as I the GM call it, each player advances a chip to show whether he's hesitating or acting, and can name the action. When they get hit, I substitute red chips for additional hesitations caused by wounds.

Opinions?

My apologies if I'm not clear, I'm short on sleep this week, and long on red wine tonight. :)


Adm.Lee 04-20-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legbreaker (Post 45372)
I had a V1 character once with CUF of 8. How's that going to work with 6 chips?

Don't have my rules in front of me, but IIRC, hesitations = 1/2 of CUF.

Badbru 04-21-2012 11:54 AM

I remember back in the day myself and my players hated rolling for the initiative stat during character generation. A high result could make a REMF into a combat god and a low result could kill off any enthusiasm for a previously considered decent character. Everyone hated the arbitrary nature of it the most I think.
So I devised an alternative based on character stats.
It went something like this...
Add your Agility stat, to represent speed of action, to your Intelligence stat, to represent speed of thought, giving you a number from 0 to 20 as stats are 2d6-2. Divide by 4, rounding down if civilian and up if military. Add any career based additions to initiative as noted in the bonus section of careers.

Most characters ended up with 3 or 4. One had 5 from memory due to a career bonus.

And as allways, remember it's a game with the goal being for your players to have fun.

Targan 04-21-2012 08:51 PM

I like that houserule, Badbru. Clever yet simple.

leonpoi 04-21-2012 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonmark6 (Post 37008)
As for bulk, I generally use it either as a penalty in CQB situations or as a tie-breaker between equal initiatives. To refine it I might assign an initiative penalty to characters who are using a weapon whose bulk is higher than their Strength and Constitution averaged to represent that it is too big and awkward for the person carrying it. Even that seems necessarily complicated.
.

You could use it simply as an initiative penalty for situations when shooting in confined spaces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbru (Post 45405)
I remember back in the day myself and my players hated rolling for the initiative stat during character generation. A high result could make a REMF into a combat god and a low result could kill off any enthusiasm for a previously considered decent character. Everyone hated the arbitrary nature of it the most I think.
So I devised an alternative based on character stats.
It went something like this...
Add your Agility stat, to represent speed of action, to your Intelligence stat, to represent speed of thought, giving you a number from 0 to 20 as stats are 2d6-2. Divide by 4, rounding down if civilian and up if military. Add any career based additions to initiative as noted in the bonus section of careers.

Most characters ended up with 3 or 4. One had 5 from memory due to a career bonus.

And as allways, remember it's a game with the goal being for your players to have fun.

I had always interpreted initiative to be not so much speed of action but coolness under fire / decisiveness. You could argue that higher Init characters go first because they have observed and acted faster because they are combat trained and used to getting shot at. A super-smart yoga instructor may have high Agl and Int but may freak out when shooting and getting show at. It's not a bad idea but I don't agree with it. Having said that I did change Init in character generation to give a tighter spread, especially for military characters (just a tweak of dice roll, can't remember details) and low Init characters will move up after a firefights anyway (I had a PC start with Init 1, and even using the squared Init value to advance that's 2-4 combats to get 2).

Having read this post I see poker chips or something like that to be very useful, no matter what version or house-rule you use.

Legbreaker 04-22-2012 01:14 AM

A high initiative character in 2.0 goes after lower initiative characters in latter phases of the 30 second turn. This I believe is to model their ability to respond to others actions accordingly.

Even a seriously low initiative character (V2.0), or one with a horrendous CUF (V1) isn't completely screwed though. Provided the player uses their heads, and the other players take their limitations into account, the slow characters can be very, very effective.

For example, if a 2.0 Initiative 1 character is given the teams machinegun (belt fed thereby limiting the need for reloading), they can carry out "repetitive actions" - continue the same action they were doing which commenced on their last "actionable" phase. This could be crawling, observing, aiming, or laying down suppressive fire. If aiming, they can use opportunity fire at anyone entering the area they're aiming at.
When I'm GMing, I allow them to continue a sequence of actions no longer than 2 phases (10 seconds) which may be firing a GL, reloading, firing again, over and over (without taking time to aim), providing the additional rounds are out and ready.
Also, one of the best uses is Loader for a crew served weapon (tank gun, artillery piece, assistant machinegunner) where a higher initiative character can give them direct commands and artificially raise their initiative a point or two while ever communication is possible between them. Loading an 81mm mortar may even be considered a form of repetitive action.

In V1.0, a high CUF character could be employed in a similar manner.

2.2 significantly reduced the difference between initiative "steps" with everyone acting in the same 5 second turn/phase/whatever. It's my belief this was partly done as many players and GMs didn't understand how powerful repetition could be.

Another issue is wounds and how they impact initiative. This is an area which in my experience is usually completely overlooked by players and GMs alike.
It only takes a light wound to effectively prevent a character from acting for a while. An opposing force throwing/firing grenades can absolutely DEVASTATE a unit, even without anyone being hit by shrapnel. Just the concussive force alone can prevent anyone acting, allowing their opponents to close at their leisure and kill them.

This is why infantrymen are trained to keep a decent spacing between them - to stop more than one, or at worst two people being in the blast radius of any one grenade. It also takes next to no skill to throw a grenade with effect - near enough is usually good enough.

leonpoi 04-22-2012 05:29 AM

How does a high initiative character provide bonuses? That sounds interesting

Legbreaker 04-22-2012 07:53 AM

Simply by telling the low initiative character what to do in simple and quick terms and perhaps slapping them over the back of the head when they don't move fast enough. ;)

Basically, if the low initiative character is willing to do EXACTLY what they're told without thinking about it, then I'd allow them to act quicker than normal. Once they're unable to receive immediate commands, their own Initiative kicks back in (they have to start thinking and acting for themselves again).

The penalty for the high initiative character is they can't fire their own weapon, speak on the radio, etc while directing the other character. They could however aim, observe for targets, or similar activities while talking.

Note that I'd only allow this if both were part of the same gun/vehicle crew or No1 machinegunner/AGL operator and their assistant. This bonus would not apply to individual actions such as moving, taking cover or firing a personal weapon.

This doesn't work very well for 2.2 though as there's only a second or two difference between an Initiative 6 and Initiative 1 character acting/reacting - just not enough time to give and receive commands.
It also wouldn't apply to somebody who's suffered Initiative penalties due to wounds.

leonpoi 04-24-2012 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legbreaker (Post 45424)
Simply by telling the low initiative character what to do in simple and quick terms and perhaps slapping them over the back of the head when they don't move fast enough. ;)

Basically, if the low initiative character is willing to do EXACTLY what they're told without thinking about it, then I'd allow them to act quicker than normal. Once they're unable to receive immediate commands, their own Initiative kicks back in (they have to start thinking and acting for themselves again).

The penalty for the high initiative character is they can't fire their own weapon, speak on the radio, etc while directing the other character. They could however aim, observe for targets, or similar activities while talking.

Note that I'd only allow this if both were part of the same gun/vehicle crew or No1 machinegunner/AGL operator and their assistant. This bonus would not apply to individual actions such as moving, taking cover or firing a personal weapon.

This doesn't work very well for 2.2 though as there's only a second or two difference between an Initiative 6 and Initiative 1 character acting/reacting - just not enough time to give and receive commands.
It also wouldn't apply to somebody who's suffered Initiative penalties due to wounds.

OK I see, but it would work well enough for my house rule where characters got 1 action per 6 turns (phase) plus an extra action for every Init 4 or greater (which is kind of like saying there are 12 turns in a phase and the default position for Initiative 3 or below is 6 hesitations and less hesitations for 4+).

Adm.Lee 06-24-2016 09:37 PM

Thread necromancy again!
 
http://angrydm.com/2013/09/popcorn-i...a-stupid-name/

So, my brain was wandering again the other night, as I sometimes come back to T2k and initiative systems. I suspect if I played more often than once a year, I'd get to like the rules more than I already do, but....

The above is a quick way to determine initiative in a combat round: the player whose turn it is picks the next one to go, PC or NPC. I wonder about mixing it with v1 or v2 initiative. Say, in v1, someone has 3 hesitations and 3 actions in a turn. Give them 3 chances to act across the turn. Want to do all 3 of yours in a row? Great, but you're giving up any chance at a later action. Want to wait & see what the enemy's up to? OK. Tracking it might be nightmarish, but I may fall back on using poker chips again-- everyone (or group of NPCs) gets a set of chips, which they toss in when they take their action(s) for each round. This adaptation is completely half-baked and untested.

Opinions?

swaghauler 06-25-2016 11:36 AM

Initiative And Time
 
I liked the "Tick" system that TW2K13 used but it proved too complex for use during the game. I tried to simplify it by reducing "Ticks" to OODA + a 1D10 roll and capping "Ticks" at 20. This created a fixed time for each "Tick" of 1/4 (0.25) of a second. This worked MUCH better but was still cumbersome in play so I simplified again. Now I use an Initiative system based on 1 Second increments for a 6 Second round (but this will work for a 5 second round too). This system is much more manageable and speeds up play. It is also very easy to implement. However many seconds something takes in the real world, that's how long it takes in the system. I do make a few changes to the Initiative as well as rates of fire. Here are my changes (please note that I use TW2K13's Coolness system):

Max Initiative is 6. To this, you also add a roll of 1D6 for a total of 2 to 12 BEFORE Modifiers. My Modifiers are:
Successful Tactics Roll (see below): +1
Surprise: -10
Light Wound (equivalent to a scratch)/Lighty Fatigued: -1
Moderate Wound (equivalent to a slight wound)/Moderately Fatigued: -2
Serious Wound (as V2.2)/Seriouly Fatigued: -4
Critical Wound (as V2.2)/Critically Fatigued: -8
Deadly Wound: No Actions Allowed
Exceeded Basic Bulk in Equipment (STA X 5): -1
Exceeded Marching Bulk (STA X 7): -2
At Maximum Allowable Bulk: (STA X 10): -3
Moderate Encumbrance: -1
Heavily Encumbered: -2
Overburdened: -4
Coolness Under Fire Exceeded: -1 PER POINT OVER COOLNESS
In Supression Effect: -1 per round in "burst"

I use 10 "Initiative Steps" just like those in V2.2 BUT each Step represents 1 second of time. The added steps above 6 seconds represent the fact that some people can perform an action faster than others. A person acting on Step 7 ISN'T ACTUALLY 1 SECOND FASTER THAN THE WORLD, He just performs a 1-second action in 0.85 seconds. So rather than complicate the system, I just added Steps. These Initiative Steps are calculated below.

Roll + Modifiers Is................Initiative Step Is
1 ............................................ 1
2 ............................................ 2
3 ............................................ 3
4 ............................................ 4
5 ............................................ 5
6 ............................................ 6
7 or 8 ...................................... 7
9 to 11 ..................................... 8
12 to 15 ................................... 9
16+ ....................................... 10

As you can see, the higher Steps are seldom used. I incorporated them for fast animals (cobras, rattlesnakes), Robotic Devices and Aliens/Supernatural Beings (I play Dark Conspiracy too). I use a Step Sheet divided into 10 blocks with the roll results in the right margin. I simply mark everyone's starting Initiative on this sheet before I begin the Declaration Phase.

The Declaration Phase:

I break my Initiative into two parts or "Phases" as well. The Declaration Phase where everyone tells me what they are doing (from highest to lowest Initiative Score) and I note this on my Step sheet, while doing the appropriate math for each action and noting WHERE that action will occur in the Steps of the Resolution Phase.
To determine when an action WILL OCCUR, just subtract how long it takes in seconds from the character's (or NPC's) Rolled Initiative. If this number is NEGATIVE, note that number on this turn sheet and tell the player he will resolve his action NEXT round. I keep 3 Step Sheets. One for the previous round, one for the current round, and one for the next round.

I also have any qualifying players roll their Tactics skills at the start of the Declaration Phase. Any who succeed may Declare LAST even though they may act FIRST in the Resolution Phase. This represents them "getting inside" their opponent's OODA Loop and "figuring out" what their opponent's planned action was. An Outstanding Success on Tactics grants a +1 bonus to Initiative a well.

Resolution Phase:

This is the phase where actions are resolved Initiative Step by Initiative Step with each Step being roughly 1 Second. Differing actions take different times. As noted above, these times are subtracted from the character's (or NPC's) Rolled Initiative. Some sample times are:

Attack, Point Blank or Short Range: 1 Second
Attack, Medium Range: 2 Seconds
Attack, Long Range: 3 seconds
Attack, Extreme Range: 4 seconds
Attack, Punch: 1 Second
Attack, Kick: 2 Seconds
Attack, Knife: 1 Second
Attack, Baton/Axe: 2 Seconds
Attack, Pole Arm: 3 Seconds
Aimed Shots: 2 X Attack (Max Range 10 Seconds)
Brace (to reduce RCL): 1 Second, NO MOVEMENT ALLOWED
Draw Pistol/ Unsling Rifle: 2 Seconds
Reload Pistol or Rifle (American mag release/bolt hold open ala M4): 3 Secs
Reload Pistol or Rifle (heel/paddle release NO bolt hold open ala AK): 4 Secs
Reload Pistol or Rifle (heel/paddle release NO bolt hold open odd reach to charge weapon ala H&K G3): 5 Secs
Reload Revolver (Speedloader): 5 Seconds
Reload Revolver (Moon Clip): 4 Seconds
Clear Jam: 3 Seconds
Ready Hand Grenade: 5 Seconds
Frag Grenade Fuse 1D3 + 2 Seconds
Flashbang Fuse: 3 Seconds
Get Down: 1 Second (kneeling), 2 seconds (prone)
Get Up: 2 X above
Sprint: 8 meters per Second (not from standing or prone)
Run: 6 meters per Second (not from standing or prone)
Trot: 4 meters per Second (not from prone)
Walk: 2 meters per Second or 1 meter per Second (stealth)
Crawl: 1 meter per second (high) 1/2m per second (low)


These are just a few actions and their times. If you need to know a time, just act it out to see how long it takes.

While this system may seem "complex," it is actually EASIER to use than to explain. You can also use a "simplified system" by just treating each Initiative Step in the basic game as 1 second of time. I just wanted a "randomizer" to equal out faster characters with slower ones. Even the fastest gun can be subjected to "The Fog Of War" on occasion.

As always, use what you want and ignore the rest...it's Your game after all.

Swag;

swaghauler 06-25-2016 11:51 AM

Experience Increases for Initiative
 
The Special Operations Handbook introduced a new rule regarding Initiative on page 24.

It specified that Experience Points to gain Initiative should be THE SQUARE of the LEVEL BEING SOUGHT. So it would take 16 Experience Points to reach an Initiative of 4 (4 X 4). Players would gain 1 Experience Point per adventure or session.

I added an additional rule. When you reach the required number of Experience Points to reach a new Initiative Level (I also use this with CUF), you cash them in FOR A CHANCE TO IMPROVE. The Experience Points expended (and are lost whether you succeed or not) ALLOW a roll on 1D6 for an increase in Initiative. If you roll OVER your current Initiative, you gain the new level. Rolling your Initiative or less results in a failure.

swaghauler 06-25-2016 12:13 PM

How I Determine Starting Initiative
 
I figured I had better post this so I don't get questions about my Initiative System above.

To determine Initiative, I have my players add AGL, INT and the result of a 1D10 Roll together and consult the following chart:

BASE INITITIAVE TABLE:

Total of AGL, INT, & 1D10 Roll....................Base Initiative:
29 to 30 total .................................................. 6
25 to 28 total .................................................. 5
17 to 24 total .................................................. 4
09 to 16 total .................................................. 3
05 to 08 total .................................................. 2
03 to 04 total .................................................. 1

Players can get bonuses to Initiative. Those bonuses apply only to modifying the 1D10 roll. The following bonuses by Career Path are available. These bonuses can be stacked if the character has multiple careers that qualify.

1. Police/LE (all), Criminal, Fire Fighter, Any Military Service: +1 (one bonus point only from this list).
2. SWAT, Infantry, Armor, Airborne/Mountain, Combat Engineer: +1 (one bonus point only from this list).
3. Special Forces: +1

As always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

swaghauler 06-25-2016 02:06 PM

Rate of Fire in a 1 Second Initiative Step
 
If you decide to treat each Initiative Step as 1 Second or use my system, your rates of fire will be different. The current ROF is based on the number of shots you can fire in 5 seconds. Current bursts are approximately 1/2 a second of time. The following ROfs are closer to "real world" rates of fire when you consider a 1/2 second time to fire in a single 1 Second Initiative Step.

BURSTS:

If you are using the 1 Second per Initiative Step System, then you should allow ONLY 1 burst per Step.

Under my system, you can only fire 1 Burst per attack (and those can take multiple seconds). I also determine Bursts differently in my game. A weapon's Burst Rate is determined by dividing its Cyclic Rate by 100 ( a 600 rpm would equal a ROF of 6).

The real change comes with the other action types.

Bolt Actions: A typical bolt action takes around 2 seconds to cycle. Experienced riflemen can get some impressive rates of fire (just Youtube "Mad Minute" to see this) but this requires a skill Roll in my game.
This roll is Average(Skill X 1): Small Arms (rifle) to reduce the bolt run time to 1 Second. An Outstanding Success would allow an attack in the NEXT Step/Second but this Attack is ONE LEVEL MORE DIFFICULT. Certain rifles that have "fast" bolt actions (such as the SMLE or The Schmidt-Rubin "straight pull" rifle) will allow a Routine (Skill X 1.5) test and certain "rough actions" (such as WW2 made Mosins) or "long throw actions" (such as the long .338 Lapua or .50 BMG) would require a Difficult (Skill X 0.5) test to increase bolt speed.
Specialization: if you are using The Special Operations Guide's Weapons Specializations Rules (pg 22), a Level 1 Specialist gets to increase his chance of success by ONE LEVEL (ie Average becomes Routine) and a Level 2 Specialist automatically reduces Difficulty Level to Easy (Skill X 2).

Pump/Lever Actions: A typical "pump gunner" (and lever guns too) takes between 1/4 of a second and 3/4 of a second to run the action. Most experienced operators can do it in about three-tenths of a second. This means that the average shooter can fire ONE SHOT in a single Initiative Step (or attack in my system). Very experienced shooters could manage TWO SHOTS if they are very skilled or dextrous. A character may fire TWO SHOTS in a Step if they have an AGL of 9+ AND a Raw Skill (not Asset) of 9+.
Fast pumps/levers: Some guns are so short of stroke (such as .22s) or so smooth (Winchester Model 12, Benelli Nova, Berretta pumps) that they allow the operator a bonus of 1 to his raw skill AND AGL to determine if he can shoot TWO SHOTS. The Winchester "Trench Gun" (1917s & 1918s) were not only smooth but had no sear disconnector so you could hold down the trigger and "pump-to-fire" them. These guns add 2 to the user's Raw Skill and AGL. All Recoil effects do apply to multiple shots.
Level 1 Weapons Specialists (Special Operations Guide, page 22) add 1 to their Skill AND AGL and Level 2 Specialists add 2 to their scores.

Single Action Revolvers: These are treated just like Pumps and Levers above in that you can fire and RECOCK the weapon in about 1/2 a second. Fast shooters can average TWO SHOTS in an Initiative Step. If their RAW (non-asset) Skill AND AGL is 8+, TWO SHOTS CAN BE FIRED.
Level 1 Specialists can add 1 to their scores and Level 2 Specialists add 2.

Double Action Revolvers & Double Action Only (DAO) Autoloaders: The typical shooter can fire ONE shot per 1/2 second and experienced shooters can fire more per Initiative Step (or Attack). A shooter with a Raw (non-asset) Skill of 7+ and an AGL of 7+ can fire TWO SHOTS in 1 Second.
Level 1 Specialists add 1 to their scores and Level 2 Specialists add 2.

DA/SA Autoloaders: They can increase their rate of fire to TWO SHOTS if their Skill/AGL is 6+. Level 1 Weapon Specialists add 1 and Level 2 Specialists add 2 to their scores.

Semi Autos/Single Action Automatics: These guns also have a 1/2 second to one shot ROF. You can fire TWO SHOTS if your Skill/AGL are both 5+. Weapons Specialists get to add their level to their scores (as always).

Single Action Automatics: These weapons must be carried "Cocked and Locked" (also known as "Condition One") in order to fire without a 1 Second Ready Action to rack the slide. Guns such as The 1911, Hi-Power, Luger, PA-15 and VZ58 can be safely carried in "Condition One" but other guns may be easier to carry in "Condition Three" (chamber empty) or even required to be carried that way. The Beretta M34 and M51 pistols have safety levers/buttons which are VERY difficult to disengage WITHOUT breaking a firing grip and are often carried chamber empty. The Baby Brownings (.25 and .32 calibers) would discharge if dropped and the Nambu Pistols were also noted for this. The T33 Tokarev had NO SAFETY AT ALL. These pistols MUST be carried "Condition Three" to ensure personal safety and will require a 1-second Ready action to get up and running.

Open Bolt MGs & SMGs: Like Single Action Automatics above, many of these weapons must either be carried with the bolt locked open or the user must perform a 1-Second Ready action to bring it into the fight. Many guns like the UZI, Beretta PM-12, CZ series, Carl Gustaf/Swedish K, and MAT-49 can be carried safely with the bolt open. Others like the M3, MP40, PPsh-43 Sten, and MAC-10 can be VERY dangerous OR require a Ready action to "unlock the bolt" before the gun can be brought into action. Still others like the Thompson, Sterling, or Owen fall into the middle where they COULD be dangerous if dropped. The GM should refer to descriptions of these weapons to determine where they fall.
Open bolt SMGs/MGs CANNOT carry an extra round in the chamber because the weapon "strips a round from the mag upon closing" and having a round in the chamber will cause a "double feed."

Closed Bolt SMGs: These are all safe to carry EVEN with an EXTRA round in the chamber. H&K MP5 users will find it hard to seat a mag with a round in the chamber (The Colt, Walther, the CZ Scorpion, the Scamp, and the vector Kriss DO NOT have this problem).

These are the rates of fire based on real world weapons speeds if you want to use each Initiative Step as an "Action."

Use what you want and ignore the rest.

Swag.

swaghauler 06-26-2016 12:23 PM

An Alternate Initiative System
 
Another way to do a quick and dirty "Semi-Randomized" Initiative would be to generate an "Initiative Bonus" and add this to a 1D6 roll (for either a 5 or 6 second round).

I would generate it by adding INT and AGL to a 1D10 roll and then Dividing the total by 10 (rounding down). This formula could be modified by Career Paths like the formula I use is (and which is listed in the post above).

This Initiative Modifier would be added to a 1d6 roll to determine the number of Initiative Steps you can act in. You could either limit the Modified Die Roll to a maximum of 6 or let it be higher if you wanted to allow more actions per round. This system could be used to represent EITHER "Actions per round" or "The Number Of Seconds (in essence "action points") Worth of Actions You Can Perform In A Round." It would work very well with Admiral Lee's "poker chip" system. Just give the player a number of poker chips equal to his initiative roll, and he gives them back as he declares his actions. You could even make certain actions (like reloading, aimed shots or shooting at longer than short range) "cost" more actions/chips.

This would be a fairly fast and easy Alternative Initiative System for the game.

Swag.

Cdnwolf 06-26-2016 12:25 PM

Encumbrance – Base Initiative
Overloaded 5
Heavily Encumbered 7
Moderately Encumbered 9
Lightly Encumbered 12
Unencumbered 15

Roll d10 and add to Initiative

Adm.Lee 06-28-2016 07:13 AM

Wow, those are a lot to think on! Thanks.

swaghauler 11-30-2016 05:56 PM

Initiative and Actions, An Alternate System for Twilight2000
 
I had the opportunity to try out a newer "hybrid system" of my initiative and the original Initiative system using "Actions" instead of "Time" (the system pioneered by TW2K13) to determine who acts when. To use this system, you first roll for the beginning Initiative Step just like you would in the system I outlined in my post Initiative & Time(post #24) above. This determines the starting Initiative Step ONLY, and EACH PLAYER'S individual Initiative Roll is listed on the Initiative Step corresponding to their modified roll. At this point, the player must determine the number of ACTIONS his character will have for that round.

The players must "modify" their BASE Initiative score (the 1 thru 6 characteristic score they initially generated in character creation) again by the modifiers below to get the number of ACTIONS that they can perform in the combat round. Those modifiers are:

ACTION MODIFIERS:

-1 Seriously Wounded/Fatigued (level 3 Fatigue in the basic rules).
-2 Critically Wounded/Fatigued (level 4 Fatigue in the basic rules).
-1 For Exceeding Coolness Under Fire (I use the TW2K13 CUF rules).
-1 For EACH POINT over Coolness Under Fire X 2 (again using TW2K13).
-1 Surprised.

Each of these modifiers reduces the character's Initiative Score and all are cumulative. If the character's Initiative score is reduced to ZERO, that character CANNOT ACT during the combat round.

Once the number of Actions a character has is determined, the player is given a number of "chips" equal to those Actions (I use Poker Chips). Once an Initiative Step that the character can act in is reached (having been determined by my original system above), the player must decide to Act or Wait. If he or she decides to act, ONE chip is given back to the GM and the player acts in THAT INITIATIVE STEP (only). Any other players who are ALSO acting in that Step are also allowed to act (and MUST also surrender a chip). After everyone is done acting, the GM continues on to the next lower Initiative Step and allows all players who have rolled an Initiative EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THIS Initiative Step to either Act or Wait. Once again, anyone acting MUST surrender an "Action Chip." This continues until the player's either run out of "Action Chips" or the last Initiative Step (Step #1) is reached.

Determining Who Acts First In An Initiative Step:

Character's act according to their Action Speed. Action Speed is determined by adding a character's AGL + INITIATIVE + WEAPON SKILL LEVEL (if any) and subtracting any weapon's "Weapon Speed" while it is used.

A weapon's speed is its Bulk Rating ROUNDING UP for Rifles, Machineguns, and Heavy Weapons and ROUNDING DOWN for Pistols, Submachineguns, and Shotguns. BULK RATING is determined by dividing the length of a weapon by 15 Centimeters.

The "Weapon Speeds" of hand to hand combat attacks is:
Punch 1
Head Butt 2
Kick 3
Throw or Grapple 4

Players act in a given Initiative Step from Highest Speed to Lowest Speed. If a player is MORE THAN 10 POINTS FASTER THAN HIS OPPONENT, HIS ATTACK WILL AFFECT THE OTHER PERSON BEFORE THAT PERSON CAN ACT.

Movement In An Initiative Step:

A person may move a short distance in an Initiative Step and still act as well. Walking reduces the chance of success of any task by one Difficulty Level. Trotting may be performed but any weapons fire is TWO DIFFICULTY LEVELS HARDER. The Movement Rates for Each Initiative Step Are:

Sprinting: 7m
Running: 5m
Trotting: 3m
Walking: 2m
Crawling: 1m
Climbing: 1m
Swimming: 1m or 2m (high speed)

A player must Walk before they can Trot, Run or Sprint UNLESS they make an Acrobatics Skill roll. It takes 1 Initiative Step to Kneel or Go Prone. It takes 1 Initiative Step to Kneel from Prone and 2 Initiative Steps to Stand up from Prone UNLESS you make an Acrobatics Skill Check.
Players conducting Repetitive Actions move using the older full turn movement rates but cannot conduct differing actions individually by Initiative Step (they can conduct a continuous action).

Weapon Fire Rates per Initiative Step:

I just use the fire rates I listed above. Those rates are for a SINGLE INITIATIVE STEP. Recoil is only applied for that Initiative Step as well.

This system is a bit faster than counting time, and the Action System allows the players to be a bit more flexible in their use of Actions to affect a battle's outcome. For example, a character with an Initiative of 1 who rolls a 6 on his 1D6 roll can end up acting in the same Initiative Step as a character with an Initiative of 6 who rolls a 1 on his 1D6 roll. Both players will act on Initiative Step 7. The difference is that the character with an Initiative of 1 will have a SINGLE ACTION and the character with the Initiative of 6 will still have FIVE MORE ACTIONS TO USE during that combat round. This is a bit fairer than the original initiative system while allowing "high initiative" characters to still stand out in combat.

As always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

Draq 12-22-2016 04:51 PM

Applause! 👏

swaghauler 05-02-2017 09:25 PM

Quick Initiative Roll
 
As I continue to "refine" my Initiative system during play, I am trying newer methods of counting out a (now standard for me) 6-second combat round.

The latest version is a highly simplified roll. I roll 1d6, add the character's Initiative Score to it, and divide by 2 (rounding up). This generates the number of "Actions" (or Action Points) a character gets per round. This gives just enough "variation" in Initiative to make slower characters viable while allowing faster characters to still stand out.

I'm still counting each Action as 1 second's worth of time (just like in my posts above). All that has changed is the way I get to the character's starting Initiative Step.

Complex/Repetative Actions:

If a character is doing a Complex Action (like sighting a Tank Gun) or a Complex Repetitive Action like driving a vehicle, I allow a number of Skill Checks OR Control Checks EQUAL TO the character's rolled Initiative Score per Round.

-The Driver can make a CONTROL ROLL (in essence, a "reaction" to something) during ANY Initiative Step because it is considered "part" of the Complex Action.
-The Driver can perform a number of Special Maneuvers equal to his Initiative Score during the Complex Action (because they are considered part of the action) BUT cannot perform that Maneuver BEFORE he could perform a regular action (even though the Complex Action actually starts on the first Step).
-The Driver cannot make more Control Rolls AND Maneuvers (combined) in a round than his rolled Initiative Score.

For example: If Joe is driving a Hummer and his Initiative Score roll equals 3, he may make three skill checks or control rolls for that combat round. If he runs out of control rolls BUT is mandated to make another one, the vehicle will be considered "uncontrolled" at this point.

I am still using chips to help keep track of scores. I give the players a number of chips equal to their rolled score and they give those chips back to me when they declare their actions. One Chip equals 1 second of time. For example: If a player declares a snap shot at a Long Range target (3 seconds/initiative steps worth of Action in my game), he must surrender 3 chips to do it.

This system has worked well and I'm happy with how fast it is to use.

Adm.Lee 06-29-2020 03:03 PM

Initiative, the subject I just won't shut up about!
 
I've been a player in a v2.2 game online this last month, and we got deep into our first firefight last night (We've been very cautious!). The 2.2 init rule was a bit unpopular. The group has myself, 3 v1 players who hadn't played since Back in The Day, and the GM very new to the game. House rule suggestions were called for.

Already a house rule is that the 2nd action for Initiatives 6-7 do not let you move twice in a round. You're fast, but not that fast!

I'm a fan of many aspects of the v2/2.2 system (wounds, repetition & direction, autofire), but the rigidity of it has always bothered me.

My thoughts since last night would be to retain the Initiative as rolled at chargen, but use that as a drm. I'd like it to be a d6 (d8?), so the modifier is still potentially more important than the die roll. If the roll were a d20, then the swing of the die is potentially much more important than the speed of action inherent in the character. Someone with a +6 is still really good in combat, but not the super-human that he is in the RAW. So, the range of actions would be 1-13, someone with an average +3 would have a range of 4-9.

Addition 1: the die is still rolled only at the start of combat.
2. Wounds still reduce the modifier, -1 for Slight, -3 for Serious.
2a. If the modifier goes to 0, you're out for the day?
3. Scratch wounds (first wound of the combat) still cause you to lose your next action.
3a. Scratch wounds also cause a re-roll of the initiative die?
4. If you max out the die roll, roll again for a 2nd action (no modifier this time). Only one bonus roll, you don't get to add more if you keep rolling 6s.
4a. Wounds take this 2nd action out entirely???

This keeps the Wound effects, the possibility of multiple actions (open to everyone, but still very rare).
I may retain Repetition and Commands as RAW.

Thoughts?

Tegyrius 06-29-2020 04:22 PM

I've been using a house system loosely derived from Ambush Alley Games' Force on Force. The intent is that the side capable of generating the greater volume of fire can dominate the fight.

Each side (not individual) in a firefight has an Initiative value calculated as follows:

• 1 per combatant actively fighting (those down, or doing other things than shooting, do not contribute)

• +1 if wielding a light support weapon (UBGL, LMG, RPG)

• +2 if wielding a heavy support weapon (GPMG, HMG, GMG, ATGM)

• +1 if flanking at least one enemy - "flanking" loosely defined as "offset from the fight's main axis of fire by about 90º and able to target at least one enemy without interposed cover"

If a side has surprise, it automatically wins Initiative on the first turn and doubles its Initiative on the second turn. This makes ambushes deadly.

The side with the higher Initiative acts first. In whatever order the combatants desire, each character may choose to act or hold. Resolve all actions.

Once the side with the higher Initiative has resolved all actions, the side with the lower Initiative acts in whatever order the combatants desire. However...

... each combatant who elected to hold may now attempt to interrupt one opponent's action with an attack. I've run that with a tacked-on Tactics skill but I might use a straight opposed AGL check in the future. If the interrupter wins, he resolves his attack before the action he's interrupting goes off. If he loses, he resolves after the action he tried to interrupt.

I have found this to get my players a lot more invested in coordinating their tactics rather than acting as individuals who happen to be present in the same fight scene. Also, after being on the winning side of an ambush, they will go to extreme lengths to ensure the same isn't done to them...

- C.

swaghauler 06-29-2020 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee (Post 83927)
I've been a player in a v2.2 game online this last month, and we got deep into our first firefight last night (We've been very cautious!). The 2.2 init rule was a bit unpopular. The group has myself, 3 v1 players who hadn't played since Back in The Day, and the GM very new to the game. House rule suggestions were called for.

Already a house rule is that the 2nd action for Initiatives 6-7 do not let you move twice in a round. You're fast, but not that fast!

I'm a fan of many aspects of the v2/2.2 system (wounds, repetition & direction, autofire), but the rigidity of it has always bothered me.

My thoughts since last night would be to retain the Initiative as rolled at chargen, but use that as a drm. I'd like it to be a d6 (d8?), so the modifier is still potentially more important than the die roll. If the roll were a d20, then the swing of the die is potentially much more important than the speed of action inherent in the character. Someone with a +6 is still really good in combat, but not the super-human that he is in the RAW. So, the range of actions would be 1-13, someone with an average +3 would have a range of 4-9.

Addition 1: the die is still rolled only at the start of combat.
2. Wounds still reduce the modifier, -1 for Slight, -3 for Serious.
2a. If the modifier goes to 0, you're out for the day?
3. Scratch wounds (first wound of the combat) still cause you to lose your next action.
3a. Scratch wounds also cause a re-roll of the initiative die?
4. If you max out the die roll, roll again for a 2nd action (no modifier this time). Only one bonus roll, you don't get to add more if you keep rolling 6s.
4a. Wounds take this 2nd action out entirely???

This keeps the Wound effects, the possibility of multiple actions (open to everyone, but still very rare).
I may retain Repetition and Commands as RAW.

Thoughts?

I'd roll a 1D6 and add it to the Base Initiative. You will be generating a number from 2 to 12 (or 13 for Initiative 7). You can then divide by 2 (rounding up) to determine which Initiative Phase (from 1 to 6) the combatants go in. Alternatively, you could just subtract [a number you select between 6 and 10] from the initiative score and give anyone who still has a positive Intiative score a second ACTION.

The Zappster 06-30-2020 07:28 AM

I quickly stopped the second action. It made the high initiative characters waaaaay to powerful, while the other characters sat and watched the others have all the fun

swaghauler 08-30-2020 02:13 PM

Mythras Actions system
 
Here's an alternate ACTIONS system that will allow multiple actions per round without much fuss. In this modified Mythras/Legend system, EVERYONE gets 3 ACTIONS. You would still roll [1D6 + Initiative Score] for INITIATIVE to determine the order everyone goes in (with appropriate reductions for wounds, suppression, etc...) BUT each person will now take 1 ACTION (of 3 total each). Each ACTION represents roughly 2 seconds of activity and can be movement, shooting, melee, etc... Once each player has taken their first (singular) ACTION from fastest (highest roll) to slowest (lowest roll), the first INITIATIVE PASS is over, 2 seconds have passed and the fastest Player/NPC now takes their SECOND ACTION. They are once again followed in order by the others until EVERYONE has resolved their SECOND ACTION; at which point the SECOND INITIATIVE PASS is over and 4 seconds have passed. The fastest combatant now starts the THIRD [and final] INITIATIVE PASS. Once the THIRD PASS is resolved, 6 seconds have elapsed and the ROUND IS OVER.
You can also have the number of ACTIONS reduced by suppression or wounds too. For example, you could give a loss of an ACTION for the Critically wounded threshold or being surprised. I like this system because it gives EVERYONE multiple options during a round. You can even rule that activities like reloading take multiple ACTIONS to perform.

Overall, I think this may give you the best balance between player/character "Agency" (multiple actions in a combat round) and the "framework and timescale" you need to successfully run an engaging adventure.


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