US Police Armored Vehicles
 

Anybody have any handle on what US Police forces or agencies are using what armored vehicles? Or weird things like the Florida Forestry Service, which has a demilled AH-1G for use in fire spotting?

In 1989 I did the Kennedy Space Centre tour whilst on holiday in Orlando and saw what looked very much like two M113's. iirc they were painted white and had the NASA logo on them.

Gwinnett County, GA (I think) has a couple of M114s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLMq6ldwr1E

neat little cupola they have there, with a sniper position inside of it.

Edit: Rainbow - yep, those were M113's. They're supposed to be used for evacuation of the shuttle in case of emergency or something like that.

They are for emergency exit from the white room and spacecraft in case of a vehicle fire. You slide down a long wire in a basket and land next to the 113s, get in, and drive away as fast as possible; hopefully, they'll shield you when the rocket blows up (or you're far enough away by then). I think there's a designated bunker they drive to. They've been there since Apollo 7 (I don't know if they've been updated, or they're still plain vanilla M113s.)

I know several police agency had retired Peacekeepers and mixture of other Cadillac Cage armor cars out there.

I saw a picture last year some time of a US police armoured vehicle that I think was a modified Saracen APC (modification included removing the centre axle to make it a 4x4 from the original 6x6).
Actually I can't recall if it was a police or sheriff's department but I think it was from one of the southern states.

In an attempt to find it, I've used Google Images with the following search terms: -
US/American Sheriff armoured car
or Sheriff APC
or Police armoured car
or Police APC
They show some interesting pics, everything from M20 Greyhounds, Cadillac Gage Rangers, Cadillac Gage V100 or V150 cars and M75, M114, M577 & M113 tracks as well as one Utah SWAT unit that had a former British Army Humber Pig WAPC and a department from Arizona using a Saracen WAPC (unmodified).
Plus the usual mix of civvy made specialist police vehicles.
It seems a number of the former US military vehicles have been acquired post September 11th 2001 however.

Many US law enforcement agencies uses the Lenco B.E.A.R and BearCat series armoured vehicles, including the New York City, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Dallas PD's, and the Ohio State Highway Patrol among others. The Bearcat is also used by the Army, Navy, Airforce and Marines, and the Department of Defence, Energy and State, and NASA among others.

The Caddilac Gage Ranger (Peacekeeper) is also a popular police vehicle, used by the Washington DC and Austin PD's, and the Florida Highwat Patrol.

The SWAT teams of the San Francisco, Tulsa and Sierra Vista PD each use an ex-British Army Alvis Saracen.

Cadillac Gage Commando
 

For many years the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) had used Cadillac Gage Commando V-100s. Detroit SWAT also has them as well, but I find the M113 as common for Police units.

Post 9/11, as the M-113 series is being removed from service, according to the last Congressional Records, over two hundred have been turned over to LEA.

San Francisco Police Department uses a Saracen.

Also, wikipedia says that Sierra Vista Police Department uses one. I think that's Sierra Vista, Arizona. Wikipedia also says that the Tulsa, Oklahoma PD uses a Saracen body on a commercial truck body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Saracen

Looks like the LAPD still uses Cadillac Gage V-100s (I'm just using Google and searching for any city's armored recovery vehicle)

this is some dude's flicker pic.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/badlizard/3031838321/

speaking of Los Angeles PD and armored vehicles, does anyone recall the scene with the LAPD armored car in the Bruce Willis flick Die Hard?

"The quarterback is toast!!!"

That was an M8 Greyhound IIRC? Would they still have been in used 40+ years after the war?

And its great to know that there are still Saracens rattling around in service - one of my favourite families of vehicles, along with the Humber Pig. Possibly as a result of growing up with them on the streets here - I remember Pigs, Saracens, Saladins, Ferrets and I think I remember seeing Fox armoured cars as well, although I might just be remembering pictures of them.

As an aside what was the APC used in Dragnet? The Tom Hanks/Dan Akroyd film version. From my youthful memories it was an M113, but I'm not sure.

It might have been an M20 Utility Car, which was basically an M8 without the turret and the interior rearranged with two bench seats. However, the vehicle in the movie lacked the skate ring of the M20 (which mounted a .50-cal Browning) and the turret ring was plated over.

IIRC, the M8 was used into the 80's in some South American countries and the M20 might have been used longer.

Since Police are unlikely to be facing up to anything heavier than assault rifles and shotguns, 50+ year old AFVs are probably more than sufficient for the job. Stick a new engine in them, upgrade the suspension from time to time and they could well see service for decades more to come.

Have not seen them in action yet, but Lincoln Nebraska got two LAV APCs. I think they are going over them and then gonna put them in a garage somewhere.

The Tulsa PD vehicle is the Saracen I recall seeing and after spending some time searching for the damned thing, I've found the images I saw thanks to boogiedowndonovan's post referring to the Flicker page.
Here's the pics (now that I look at them again I can see that it's looks more like the hull is mounted on a different chassis rather than modifying the standard Saracen from 6x6 to 4x4 like I initially thought).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tulsabl...-404166@N23/#/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tulsabl...ool-404166@N23

The entire collection of armoured police vehicles can be found here
http://www.flickr.com/groups/404166@N23/

In some locations there are M113s used for Forest Fire service.

Cougar AVGP
 

In May 2007, the Edmonton Police Service accepted the donation of a disarmed Grizzly from the Canadian Forces and in March 2010, the Canadian Forces Donated 2 disarmed Cougar AVGPs to the British Colombia area Royal Canadian Mounted Police for use by the Emergency Response Team.

In the March, 2011 issue of Tactical Weapons is a nice little write up on the Bucks County, Pennsylvania Emergency Response Teams...of special intrest is the number of armored vehicles used by the ERT. To support three ERTs there are two M-113A3 APCs, one Lenco Bear Cat armored car and one bank-type armored car.

There are two pic of the M-113; the first is an excellent shot of the front and right side. The splash board and smoke dischargers have been removed as well as the weapons mount from the TC's coupla. A police light bar has been mounted above the engine and the vehicle has a gloss dark green paint job with POLICE-RESCUE in white. The second pic shows the left side and left rear of the M-113. While the ramp is down, there is very little detail visible of the interior (DRAT!!!). The rubber shrouds are in place, although pulling the splash board kind of renders these useless.

Still, nice pics and a intresting article!

My agency has a Lenco Bear (the larger version than the Bear Cat) for SWAT. I've seen a number of other agencies, even relatively small ones, that field surplus M113s. Even for big agencies we're only talking about a handful of vehicles -- I think even LAPD or NYPD would be hard pressed to field a mech infantry company worth of APCs or other AFVs.

It seems inconceivable that any police force would have more than 2 or 3 APCs. I mean, do they really expect to need them all at the same time!? :eek:
An entire company's worth (or nearly) is just mind boggling!

Bucks County has a pop of about 620,000 in the last cenus, and its one of the larger counties in PA, so two M-113s and 2 armored cars might be considered the high end. Even a city like NYC or LA would be hard pressed to field more than 4-6 APCs, they are specialized vehicles that might see only 2-3 days of use every year, outside of training that is. The only reason why so many M-113s are in LEA hands is because the DoD provides a large amount of surplus kevlar vests and helmets, weapons, gas masks and a handful of armored vehicles to LEA use.

In south Mississippi, the only reason why the sheriff's department and the coastal cities have M-16s/M-4s is because the DoD released them as part of the Bush administration Police grants.

There is a whole bunch of reasons that it seems that APC's are popping up all over, but my personal fav was one I was told back years ago after a random check of containers from the PRC revealed that instead of Barbie Dolls, was case after case of brand spanking new AK's, and people started wondering what they didn't catch on the way in.

IMHO, its just a matter of time before some banger/"pro" crook gets his hands on something like a RPG or worse.

I had a friend working in Australian Customs a few years back. Apparently only about 1% of containers are actually searched - there's simply not the manpower available.
However those that are searched can expect to be pulled appart to almost the last nut and bolt - just like a really expensive sports car being imported by a rather obnoxious man once - got stripped to the last component. Oh, and customs aren't obligated to put any of it back together either. ;)

RPG's and worse (LPO-50 flamethrower anyone?) have cropped up here way too many times over the years, and I consider those using them to be no better than criminals, regardless of their political inclinations/aspirations. Thats probably why the vast majority of our police vehicles are still armoured....

What makes you think they haven't. I am sure they a good supply of automatic weapons.

As far as smuggling goes has anyone else read up on the Sting involving China Ocean Shipping Company and the port of Oakland?

2,000 Type 56 assault Rifles(with some NK marked rifles tossed in) intended for the US streets and the smugglers were giving prices for RPGs mortars and anti-aircraft missiles. Not cool at all as the cops don't have anything that can counter that level of firepower.

I've heard rumors about semi-trucks filled with weapons being found in mexico and one has to wonder where the cartels are getting weapons from outside of stealing them from the federales.

Frankly I'm suprised that I've seen only one M-249 in the hands of Texas law enforcement.

Like I said what makes anyone think they don't already have their hand on said weapons. The only reason they don't use them on the usual basis is it would change the dynamics of what law enforcement would be equipped with and give them idea what to expect.

Ok, let's say that the crips and bloods go nuclear on each other, and break out the really heavy stuff. How do you think the gov and local law enforcement would react?

Raid gun shops, same as during the North Hollywood shootout? Start handing captured gang weapons out to the police?

For the sake of arguement, say that the crips and bloods break out the mortars, RPGs and HMGs and go to town on each other...I can see the LAPD freaking out and the National Guard being called out, but it would take the President to declare martial law or perhaps a Presidental Finding that has the crips/bloods acting in armed rebellion for the Regular services to be called in.

Still, it would be intresting to see the USS New Jersey cruising offshore and dropping 16-inch HE on the gangs' headquarters...maybe a squadron of A-10s rolling in hot with Mavericks and 30mm?

The New Jersey is not in service anymore...so how about an AC-130 instead?

Think about the press! Anyone remember when the Philadelphia PD dropped a bomb (just a package of explosives, really) on the apartment building where the radical group MOVES was holed up? The police got eviscerated in the press for months.

If it did happen, and let not just use the the local gang from L.A. The local cops will be raiding and taking whatever firepower wherever they can get their hands on it, including raiding local Armories before the National Guard were local activated.

No matter where it happened, I am sure the local National Guard would be called up. Where it would get sketchy is when and if the US Federal Government authorize the use of the US Military against them.

Yeah so do the Gangs. They realize as well as most local/State governments that there are limits that people are willing to accept. The general population don't want to feel as if they live in a police state. The local Law Enforcement knows that for most things they can handle, and many try not to think about the what if the sh!t hit the fan type stuff. They know it there, but as long as it doesn't happen on my beat they try not to dwell on it.

One thing about that one failed bank robbery, with the two bank robbers wearing the home-made bullet proof armor and how ill prepared local law enforcement was for it drove home a point. It part of the reason why many local police agency have went out of the way to better prepare their officers and SWAT teams. With some going so far as arming their some regular patrol officer with 5.56mm weapons instead of riot guns.

Question was asked in seriousness, and I appreciate the responses. The one question that comes to mind from what I have read, is why should we assume that the gangs are willing to play by the unwritten rules?

But not just the gangs either, there are many groups that if they could get the firepower would use it.

Yes, the ANG will be called out, and the fact that a *lot* of Iraq vets are on the beat these days will help, but what of the long term effects?

In T2K, a lot of major cities will become highly factionalized ans split along gang neighborhoods. With the dearth of police available, their conflicts would intensify -- except possibly in the Southwest, where they might find themselves as strange bedfellows in resistance to Mexican and Soviet forces -- or collaborators.

It would cut into their other profits in other interests they oversea. I mean if they went around using their automatic weapons and other firepower they have at will, they will come under the microscope from the people they are supposedly trying to help and recruit.

With popcorn and deck chairs. :p

And a *lot* of gang-bangers have Iraq/AFG experience too.

lets hope it never comes to this.