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-   -   the best that never was, continued. (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=4651)

Vespers War 09-22-2020 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic (Post 85191)
All of which makes me wonder about that article supposing that the M202 was used in Afghanistan.
Given the delicate nature of the rockets, I wonder if US forces were actually using 40mm thermobaric rounds (they started to be available from 2003) and the article writer not being familiar with military tech jumped on the M202 as the explanation?

It's from an inventory listing. A leaked 2007 list of inventory in Afghanistan states that there's quantity 3 of NSN 1055000213909 in-country. That's the NSN for the M202A1 Flash. I didn't find any of the three NSNs I know of for M74 rockets, so I'm thinking it's possible someone made a typo somewhere.

StainlessSteelCynic 09-22-2020 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespers War (Post 85193)
It's from an inventory listing. A leaked 2007 list of inventory in Afghanistan states that there's quantity 3 of NSN 1055000213909 in-country. That's the NSN for the M202A1 Flash. I didn't find any of the three NSNs I know of for M74 rockets, so I'm thinking it's possible someone made a typo somewhere.

Given the size of that stock number, a typo would be pretty easy to make!

pansarskott 09-23-2020 08:58 AM

I just learned that it's not WP in the ammo, it's burning metal. But it seems to behave like WP, so I guess the rule books can be excused :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M202_FLASH

FLASH = "Flame Assault Shoulder.", nice backronym if it's true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHuDYOVAQYs

https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/M202_FLASH

rcaf_777 12-18-2020 08:30 PM

Oerlikon Escorter 35
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://en.topwar.ru/61787-proekt-ze...veycariya.html

StainlessSteelCynic 12-19-2020 06:11 AM

Another system using 35mm Oerlikon cannon that didn't get produced was a Czech vehicle called Styx from what I can understand from bad online translation. Based on the same vehicle as the Dana SPG.
https://www.valka.cz/topic/view/12561
https://www.armadninoviny.cz/protivz...minulosti.html

https://www.valka.cz/files/thumbs/t_styx_i1.jpg

Vespers War 12-19-2020 09:33 AM

On the barely-produced side, Finland has 7 Marksman systems, which are twin 35mm Oerlikons mounted originally on surplus T-55 tanks and now mounted on Leopard 2A4 tanks. They look a lot like Gepard turrets. For the T-55AM, weight increased from 36 tons to 41 tons, while the Leopard 2A4 sees its weight reduced to around 49 tons. The T-55AM Marksman entered service in 1990, so they could theoretically exist in the Twilight War.

pmulcahy11b 12-19-2020 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespers War (Post 86310)
They look a lot like Gepard turrets.

They are actually Gepard turrets, modified as necessary to fit the receiving hull and things like instruments and suchlike in the language of the receiving country, plus any upgrades the receiving country might request.

Vespers War 12-25-2020 02:09 AM

The Royal Armouries has a lovely 17th-century flintlock revolver that is quite fascinating in its design and appears at least moderately practical, although quite expensive and rather heavy. The stats below use a 15 grain charge of black powder, but it's not significantly changed by having charges anywhere from 10-30 grains. It never moves from Dam 1, Rng 4 until the powder charge gets too heavy to burn completely in the barrel and Rng starts dropping.

Dafte(?) Flintlock Revolver, circa 1780 (12.6x8.0mm BP Ball)
Wt 2.83 kg, Mag 6, ROF SAR, Reload 1/chamber*, Dam 1, Pen Nil, Bulk 4, SS 1, Rng 4.

*loading with loose powder increases reload time to 2/chamber.

It's heavy, an awkward bulk for a pistol, slow to reload, and short-ranged. It's also far better than other pistols of the time.

rcaf_777 12-30-2020 07:45 PM

MGM-105 Aquila (Eagle) TADAR (Target Acquisition, Designation and Aerial Reconnaissance)

A cost-effective system (LOL seriously) of small size able to provide the US Army with real-time aerial reconnaissance, target acquisition, artillery observation and laser designation. Target acquisition was to used for the
AGM-114 Hellfire and M712 Copperhead. Although the program was developed for the Artillery Branch, if the system had been fielded, it would have fallen under the Intelligence Branch. The Army began to push for new variants of Aquila such as Aquila Lite which attempted to redesign the ground systems to be carried on HMMWV's instead of 5 ton trucks. The original fielding plans called for 780 air vehicles and 72 Launcher/Recovery System/Ground Control Station combinations. The project was canceled in 1987.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/airc...ircraft_id=376

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_MQM-105_Aquila

Legbreaker 12-30-2020 09:10 PM

The one thing I miss that was in 1st ed is the PzF-11-1 disposable AT rocket. Was probably the best LAW in the 1st ed of the game, and although it's featured on the cover of the 2nd ed Heavy Weapons book, there's no stats for it.
Paul hasn't done it either. :(

Vespers War 12-30-2020 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legbreaker (Post 86390)
The one thing I miss that was in 1st ed is the PzF-11-1 disposable AT rocket. Was probably the best LAW in the 1st ed of the game, and although it's featured on the cover of the 2nd ed Heavy Weapons book, there's no stats for it.
Paul hasn't done it either. :(

I took a quick look at it, and here's how I'd approach a quick and dirty conversion of the PzF-11-1:

Things get wonky when looking at some of the changes in AT weapons. The two weapons with the same damage in v1 aren't in v2 (Dragon and TOW I, replaced by Dragon PIP and TOW II).

Looking at the 1st edition stats, it should be stronger than:
LAW-80 (100C in v2)
Armbrust (55C)
AT-4/M136 (70C)
RPG-75 (55C)
APILAS (60C)
Eryx (60C)

But weaker than:
Tank Breaker (90C)
RBS-56 BILL (30C)
AT-3 Sagger (75C)

I'm willing to overlook BILL as an outlier, since it may have gotten knocked down for being top attack (although then Tank Breaker should have been knocked down also, but whatever). If we also ignore LAW 80 for having gotten a major boost in v2, we end up with a PzF-11-1 that should be somewhere around 70-75C, with something like C:5, B:5 (give or take 1 point on either stat) and the same range, weight, and price as v1.

pansarskott 12-31-2020 04:01 AM

RBS 56 BILL is really weak in v2. I think they forgot to increase the values from v1, it stayed at 30C. For comparison, a HEAT rifle grenade in v2 has 30C.
Tank Breaker increased from x30C to 90C (might be a bit weak as well, but that was a fictional weapon at the time).

Even though RBS-56 was designed for top attack, it was still a modern powerful HEAT warhead designed to defeat ERA (by using explosives that had higher detonation velocity than what was expected to be used in ERA tiles)

I tried to find info on warhead diameter, but only found for BILL 2 (110 mm main warhead)

The picture is wrong as well. That's not how the tripod looks. Even in 1989 (v1 HWG) there should have been pics available. Big disappointment for me who did military service using the RBS-56 in 1989.

Sorry for the rant! :D

For comparison or adding new weapons, I would use warhead diameter and "generation" to make up stats. I.e a 100 mm warhead from 1988 has higher penetration than a same diameter warhead from 1973.

Vespers War 12-31-2020 02:18 PM

Tank Breaker is what became Javelin, which has a 127mm warhead, just to provide a point of comparison for BILL.

(edit to add: Tank Breaker was started by DARPA in 1978. In 1986 the Army asked for proposals to replace Dragon. The Tank Breaker developers provided the proposals. TI proposed a missile with an IR seeker, Hughes went for fiber optic wire guidance, and Ford Aerospace a laser beam-rider. The competition shoot-off between TI and Hughes was in 1987-88, and full development of the Advanced Anti-armor Weapon System-Medium that the Army named Javelin commenced in 1989, with the contract going to a joint venture between TI and Martin Marietta. Full-scale production of Javelin started in 1997).

Sagger is 125mm, but an older generation of missile.

For RHA penetration, Sagger-C was 520mm in its improved version (460mm in the original 1969 configuration), and the 1992-era Sagger-D was 800mm. Javelin is "750+" normally, and ~600mm if the target has ERA thanks to the tandem warhead.

I've seen numbers everywhere between 500 and 900 for BILL, so I have no idea what its actual penetration was. Those may be two generations of BILL or based on whether the target has ERA or not, but it wasn't clear from what I was able to find.

pmulcahy11b 12-31-2020 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legbreaker (Post 86390)
The one thing I miss that was in 1st ed is the PzF-11-1 disposable AT rocket. Was probably the best LAW in the 1st ed of the game, and although it's featured on the cover of the 2nd ed Heavy Weapons book, there's no stats for it.
Paul hasn't done it either. :(

Look again, it's there -- but it's listed on the page as "Panzerfaust 11-1"

Legbreaker 12-31-2020 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b (Post 86396)
Look again, it's there -- but it's listed on the page as "Panzerfaust 11-1"

Well, that would explain a lot then. Same beast, different name. :p

cawest 01-11-2021 12:01 PM

just found this on B-1 challenger.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...the-b-1-bomber

pmulcahy11b 01-11-2021 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cawest (Post 86465)

That really helps right about now, since I'm updating my US Bombers page.


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